Revamped Carnival Sunshine facing problems in maiden voyage

[kybluecruiser]

This website amazes me. Where else in the world can you find so many experts in one place. Here we have maritime historians, marine engineers, Fortune 500 Public Relations experts, C.O.O. and even a few C.E.Os. One would think since everybody on here knows what Carnival should have done, Carnival would be chomping at the bit to hire your expertise.

 

Everybody needs to chill. The ship floats and has all its propulsion works and there is plenty of great food including guys.

[ShanteS]

If I were booked on this sailing I too would be upset if certain areas were still unfinished and my cabin didn't have hot water. Bottom line Carnival was a little too enthusiastic and unrealistic about how long this refurb was really going to take. I love Carnival but it seems like they're more concerned with getting the ship out to sea to collect revenues than actually finishing the ship completely.

 

This was to be the THIRD sailing so at this point the water works, sports square and unfinished cabins should have been operating and complete by now. They should've only been making minor adjustments around the ship at this point, the main attractions should be operational.

 

Much better to be safe than sorry so why didn't they just have the inaugural sailing be in June (just to avoid this situation)? Once again Carnival has dropped the ball AGAIN. They need to get their act together and show a little more consideration for their passengers/customers.

[bbbearden]

The thing is a refurbishment this size had NEVER been done before in the history of cruise ships. This was a big risk to take and although there's been a few issues, I can imagine alot worse scenarios.

 

 

While your point is worth considering it is factually wrong. There have been many times when cruise ships have literally been cut in half and had new sections added with the net result being to lengthen the ship and provide more space for cabins and public spaces. From an engineering perspective, that is a much larger and complicated task than the extensive face lift given to the Sunshine/Destiny. There was a good documentary several years ago showing this process on an NCL ship, but many other lines have done the same thing.

 

It is fine to place some accountability on the shipyard or to argue that passengers coming on an early sailing should expect issues, but what is mind blowing to me is that with size of the investment in the refurb, the amount of paid and free press, and the PR damage the company has already suffered (fairly or unfairly) I cannot understand why the company leadership did not have a strong enough project manager on site at the ship yard to make sure everything was perfect. Due to the stakes, I would have had VP level types on site making sure this happened as planned, on schedule, and on budget. Allowing this ship to sail in the shape it is reported it is in with elevator issues, the water issues, the pool and water park not open, and dust and dirt everywhere is a huge mistake. This is a series bloody nose for Carnival and the responsiblity rests completely on the shoulders of upper management.

 

One poster arguing on behalf of the cruise line makes a point about the company deciding to sail with an unfinished ship versus canceling the sailing and seems to indicate the better choice was to sail in the unfinished state. Again, I get the point, but that fact is that the cruise line should never have allowed themselve to be put in this position. They should have been side by side with their vendor (the shipyard) through the whole process and made sure the work went flawlessly. They should have allowed enough time (even though they ended up with extra time) to finish the project and get it done right.

 

Carnival is an excellent cruiseline and normally serves thier market well, however bad decisions like this are making them an easy target for a media that already has them in it's sights. If I were a stockholder in the company, I would want answers, and the customers on these sailings deserve more than lunch and a bottle of wine. Carnival better shape up or face very real challenges in the market place by companies that are doing it better. They could see a serious errosion of their market share if they don't step up and manage these issues better.

[dclark]

The cruisers on board should not be complaining. It is a CCL ship, they should have expected something like this to happen.

[H82seaUgo]

This website amazes me.

Everybody needs to chill. The ship floats and has all its propulsion works and there is plenty of great food including guys.

 

and where else would i read guys resembles anything great.

 

and something floating with propulsion hardly addresses any of the hotel problems.

[ShanteS]

While your point is worth considering it is factually wrong. There have been many times when cruise ships have literally been cut in half and had new sections added with the net result being to lengthen the ship and provide more space for cabins and public spaces. From an engineering perspective, that is a much larger and complicated task than the extensive face lift given to the Sunshine/Destiny. There was a good documentary several years ago showing this process on an NCL ship, but many other lines have done the same thing.

 

It is fine to place some accountability on the shipyard or to argue that passengers coming on an early sailing should expect issues, but what is mind blowing to me is that with size of the investment in the refurb, the amount of paid and free press, and the PR damage the company has already suffered (fairly or unfairly) I cannot understand why the company leadership did not have a strong enough project manager on site at the ship yard to make sure everything was perfect. Due to the stakes, I would have had VP level types on site making sure this happened as planned, on schedule, and on budget. Allowing this ship to sail in the shape it is reported it is in with elevator issues, the water issues, the pool and water park not open, and dust and dirt everywhere is a huge mistake. This is a series bloody nose for Carnival and the responsiblity rests completely on the shoulders of upper management.

 

One poster arguing on behalf of the cruise line makes a point about the company deciding to sail with an unfinished ship versus canceling the sailing and seems to indicate the better choice was to sail in the unfinished state. Again, I get the point, but that fact is that the cruise line should never have allowed themselve to be put in this position. They should have been side by side with their vendor (the shipyard) through the whole process and made sure the work went flawlessly. They should have allowed enough time (even though they ended up with extra time) to finish the project and get it done right.

 

Carnival is an excellent cruiseline and normally serves thier market well, however bad decisions like this are making them an easy target for a media that already has them in it's sights. If I were a stockholder in the company, I would want answers, and the customers on these sailings deserve more than lunch and a bottle of wine. Carnival better shape up or face very real challenges in the market place by companies that are doing it better. They could see a serious errosion of their market share if they don't step up and manage these issues better.

 

I agree with you 100%!! I've always said Carnival has gone down hill since Cahill and his team took over. He needs to be replaced so that we can have the OLD Carnival back.

[Sargent_Schultz]

And for something completely different, the truth

 

From someone on the ship -

 

"We are having a great time on the sunshine maiden voyage. The ship is beautiful. They are still working on a few areas which is apparently irritating to some passengers-we are just happy to be on board. They seem to be content complaining. I don't get it. Anyway, crew is so pleasant and food has been great. Have had amazing weather for sure. Looks like it may rain but temperature is so pleasant."

[dclark]

and where else would i read guys resembles anything great.

 

and something floating with propulsion hardly addresses any of the hotel problems.

 

"

Everybody needs to chill. The ship floats and has all its propulsion works and there is plenty of great food including guys."

 

Yup, this is the level of mediocrity that CCL cruisers have accepted. If it floats and has hamburgers, it is a good cruise!

[ibcnusoon]

How long before this ship sailed did they know it would not be ready, one week.. two weeks... I feel people should have been informed and given the choice to sail. With time to cancel or reschedule their cruise, hotels, airfare.

Also, they do trial runs. Do they check everything during trial runs, or is that just like major things such as engines, etc? Just don't really know this.

Personally, I feel the thing about there will be glitches, is not a good thing. Test the ship. Take it out for a few days, if things aren't working.. fix them. If they can't be fixed in time, let the people know at least a week ahead of time. No vacation provider, hotel, airline, or cruiseline, should invite people aboard without letting the know ahead of time, that there are or may be issues.

 

I agree, I cannot believe an important aspect of the ship is closed!! :eek: If I were on that ship, I'd be furious.

 

Why was the inaurgural delayed to begin with? Was it some other issue other than the pools and waterpark?

 

Sounds like Carnival decided again to cut corners and unfortunately DID NOT take the time and money to complete the pool and waterpark.

[golfadj]

While your point is worth considering it is factually wrong. There have been many times when cruise ships have literally been cut in half and had new sections added with the net result being to lengthen the ship and provide more space for cabins and public spaces. From an engineering perspective, that is a much larger and complicated task than the extensive face lift given to the Sunshine/Destiny. There was a good documentary several years ago showing this process on an NCL ship, but many other lines have done the same thing.

 

It is fine to place some accountability on the shipyard or to argue that passengers coming on an early sailing should expect issues, but what is mind blowing to me is that with size of the investment in the refurb, the amount of paid and free press, and the PR damage the company has already suffered (fairly or unfairly) I cannot understand why the company leadership did not have a strong enough project manager on site at the ship yard to make sure everything was perfect. Due to the stakes, I would have had VP level types on site making sure this happened as planned, on schedule, and on budget. Allowing this ship to sail in the shape it is reported it is in with elevator issues, the water issues, the pool and water park not open, and dust and dirt everywhere is a huge mistake. This is a series bloody nose for Carnival and the responsiblity rests completely on the shoulders of upper management.

 

One poster arguing on behalf of the cruise line makes a point about the company deciding to sail with an unfinished ship versus canceling the sailing and seems to indicate the better choice was to sail in the unfinished state. Again, I get the point, but that fact is that the cruise line should never have allowed themselve to be put in this position. They should have been side by side with their vendor (the shipyard) through the whole process and made sure the work went flawlessly. They should have allowed enough time (even though they ended up with extra time) to finish the project and get it done right.

 

Carnival is an excellent cruiseline and normally serves thier market well, however bad decisions like this are making them an easy target for a media that already has them in it's sights. If I were a stockholder in the company, I would want answers, and the customers on these sailings deserve more than lunch and a bottle of wine. Carnival better shape up or face very real challenges in the market place by companies that are doing it better. They could see a serious errosion of their market share if they don't step up and manage these issues better.

 

Excellent post

[bbbearden]

And for something completely different, the truth

 

From someone on the ship -

 

"We are having a great time on the sunshine maiden voyage. The ship is beautiful. They are still working on a few areas which is apparently irritating to some passengers-we are just happy to be on board. They seem to be content complaining. I don't get it. Anyway, crew is so pleasant and food has been great. Have had amazing weather for sure. Looks like it may rain but temperature is so pleasant."

 

I apprecaite that you feel this is the truth but I read it more as opinion. Some people have higher standards than others. Some people look for different things to have a good time. A pleasant crew and good food are great, but on a cruise, that is just the basics. Much more is paid for and expected.

[jsfromsc]

I'm a Carnival fan, too, but I'd be really ticked off if I were on this cruise, even if everything in my cabin was fine. Carnival has touted this makeover for months and they had no business releasing the ship if everything wasn't functioning, especially after the problems they have had this past year. I'm sure many people booked this ship specifically for what was promised and not just the itinerary. I'm willing to cut them all kinds of slack when things go wrong beyond their control, but they need to get someone more knowledgeable in charge. IMO the bad publicity from canceling a few more cruises due to the ship not being ready would be less damaging than the bad publicity they're getting from sending out a ship that is not fully functioning. Not being able to use the pool is a minor inconvenience. Not having water in several cabins or having leaking cabins or dirty cabins is unacceptable.

[ibcnusoon]

One poster arguing on behalf of the cruise line makes a point about the company deciding to sail with an unfinished ship versus canceling the sailing and seems to indicate the better choice was to sail in the unfinished state. Again, I get the point, but that fact is that the cruise line should never have allowed themselve to be put in this position. They should have been side by side with their vendor (the shipyard) through the whole process and made sure the work went flawlessly. They should have allowed enough time (even though they ended up with extra time) to finish the project and get it done right.

 

It really gives me the chills I don't think I ever want to step foot again on a Carnival ship, knowing that the company puts out ships that aren't up to the standard. So instead of skimping on maintenance this time, they skimped in the activities ... or did they do the maintenance too and is it safe to board their ships??

 

Makes you wonder ...

[Jimmy Geegitz]

Yea this is why we would never book a maiden voyage. We like to wait Til they work out the bugs.

[gtalum]

This is completely typical of major refurbs, and it's only a story because of the Triumph incident, but if I were Carnival I'd sure as heck have made certain that the work was all done before sailing in this instance. Their corporate PR team has got to be the most incompetent of any major company in recent years.

[ShanteS]

Yea this is why we would never book a maiden voyage. We like to wait Til they work out the bugs.

 

I agree with the working out the "kinks and bugs" on maiden voyages BUT technically this would've been her third sailing not the inaugural.

[Dry Dock Dave]

Someone sent me a private message and asked me to check out this thread, I can see why now and as much as I'd rather try and forget about that ship, I'll take the time to say this.......it's real easy to speculate and voice opinions over the internet it seems, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but facts are usually more useful.

 

So, fact number 1.... Ultimately, Carnival are 100% responsible for the conditions and the experience for their passengers, regardless of if it's the first cruise after a dry dock, or the last one before a dry dock, or any cruise inbetween

 

 

Fact number 2... Carnival DID do everything they could and more to try and get that ship 100% ready, but no, I don't think that excuses them for it not being done.

 

Now I'm going to be as vague as possible because I'm not one to sterotype entire nationalitys on the actions of a few, but I know some of what happened, and saw things with my own eyes.

 

A couple of people here were smart enough to look a little further than the ships owner as to why the ship is in the firing line right now. Think about it for a little while.... The Sunshine was the only ship in a large ship yard in an area that is dependant on work and income from that ship yard, and the revenue brought in from the contractors on board using the local facilities too. The hassle and headaches that non Italian contractors have to jump through to work in that shipyard are ridiculous, so I'll leave it to your imaginations to work out what nationality the majority there were. Another thing to consider is each individual contractor has different payment terms, some are price work (so you get paid for each cabin carpetted / tiled for example) which can lead to high income for skilled workers prepared to work hard, or high profits for not so skilled workers prepared to cut corners and hope that a lesser quality job wont get noticed too often, and the ones that do get noticed and have to be redone at cost aren't too many. Others are on day rate so they get the same money regardless of hours worked or work produced. Most there were on hourly rate, so provided you're on board you're getting paid, you could be working hard, or asleep somewhere, you're still getting paid. There are pro's and cons to all methods, but the difference is highlighted most when there isn't much work left to do, and there's a lot of people left to do it. Those on day rate will simply get the days work done and leave the yard, those on hourly rate will be bored out of their brains because they HAVE to stay on the ship as the card system logs time you enter and leave the ship and the yard.

 

As soon as the departure date was extended / first cruises cancelled, the work rate dropped immensely.... loads of time now was the attitude of most. I saw people playing football, sweeping areas clean and then kicking the pile around the floor for the fun of being able to sweep the area again, a large number of TV's in cabins were damaged, and not accidentally, simply punched so the screen is ruined. While we're on the subject of TV's, this is the first and only time I ever heard the words 'we've run out of TV's' on a dry dock.... they know how many they need, and there's container fulls that are deployed for days, worse still, Carnival knowingly ordered MORE than they needed because of where the dry dock was done and yet still run out. The list of incidents and problems I could relay that are all down to one factor are immense. Every new cabin (built as a 'module' that 'should' just get fitted and then wired, plumbed in and have the AC connected) has issues causing major difficulties for the contractors aboard to carry out their part... everything took 10 times longer due to this and required parts that were not expected to be needed so not on board. Coincidentally, the company who made the cabins were of the same nationality as the yard.

 

If there was an excuse to prolong things or delay progress, it was found by some... new cables being run long distances through the ship were being cut while they were being run so when finished would not work so would have to be redone. These are just the deliberate type attempts, the more astounding being finished areas being raided for bits forgotted on other areas yet finished.... better still when the finished area was completed by a different contractor! Speakers removed and refitted elsewhere to save having to pay for their own out of their budget when they either threw out the originals when the area was stripped, or they overlooked the need for extras as the floor space was now bigger. Finished areas were soon locked for security reasons which is something I've never ever experienced before, I think the final straw was an 80" plasma TV in the kids area getting slashed across the screen with a blade.

 

500 meter drums of cable were going missing, boxes and boxes of electrical sockets and switches were going missing... when the whole ship is an open building site, secure storage is non existant. I've worked in many countries in many shipyards on a large number of different ships, and I have never ever seen such blatant dishonesty and disregard for other peoples property and workmanship. Truthfully? I'm embarassed that I was even present and associated with that job, because for years to come, the stories told over that one dry dock amongst the circle of contractors that do this work around the world will be hideous.

 

Ultimately Carnival are to blame, they picked where the work was carried out, and I'm assuming with some idea of the potential problems at least, simply from the statement made about the extra TV's being ordered. Now I don't know why they picked that place, maybe it was cheapest, part of me thinks it was probably the only shipyard in the world desperate enough for work to agree to take on that sized project on that particular ship. Don't take that the wrong way, the ship is as safe as any other, but technically speaking to work on it? It's your worst nightmare multiplied by infinity... documentation of the original build may as well be fictional, it was probably planned that way once upon a time... but how it ended up being when it left the yard original bears little resemblance to what the paperwork would suggest. I'll leave it to you guys to look up where it was built, having worked there for myself it's no real surprise to me.

 

So to summarise.... do I think it's right / fair that paying passengers going on their dream holiday are subjected to problems and areas closed for works? No, not even remotely acceptable, and I'm confident Carnival will do what they can to compensate for it. Is that enough to make up for it? I guess that's up to each indivual wishing to be compensated, none of which as yet are here discssing this so to me is irrelevant. All I can say in Carnivals defence on this, is that they DID all they could to have a ship finished for those joining it... you will never ever see a more dedicated and commited team than there was on board that ship from the CCL side of things, pushed to the limits physically and mentally to achieve the unachieveable, because the truth is, if that ship stayed in that yard until it was 100% finished, it would become a museum for Trieste tourists... it got to the point it was being broken faster than those trying to finish it could keep up. Carnival made the right choice to finish the rest in service with contractors they could trust and keep an eye on the progress of

[H82seaUgo]

I'm a Carnival fan, too, but I'd be really ticked off if I were on this cruise, even if everything in my cabin was fine. Carnival has touted this makeover for months and they had no business releasing the ship if everything wasn't functioning, especially after the problems they have had this past year. I'm sure many people booked this ship specifically for what was promised and not just the itinerary. I'm willing to cut them all kinds of slack when things go wrong beyond their control, but they need to get someone more knowledgeable in charge. IMO the bad publicity from canceling a few more cruises due to the ship not being ready would be less damaging than the bad publicity they're getting from sending out a ship that is not fully functioning. Not being able to use the pool is a minor inconvenience. Not having water in several cabins or having leaking cabins or dirty cabins is unacceptable.

 

ultimately, all the hoopla about changing the name, destiny, to try and distance itself from a failed ship just shows she's still the destiny, and will carry that stigma to its death. and that lipstick is hardly dry, but quite dusty.

 

rip

[bbbearden]

It really gives me the chills I don't think I ever want to step foot again on a Carnival ship, knowing that the company puts out ships that aren't up to the standard. So instead of skimping on maintenance this time, they skimped in the activities ... or did they do the maintenance too and is it safe to board their ships??

 

Makes you wonder ...

 

 

While I realize and own the fact that my previous posts have been critical of Carnival's decision making process, at this point I do have faith in the company and it's ships. I believe they have been dealt a bad hand in the press and have become an easy target. My issue is that they keep making some bad decisions that are making the problem worse. These are issues they could have controlled and did not.

 

Do I think Sunshine is unsafe no, do I think they could have managed this process better, yes. It really seems like Carnival is at a crossroads and they need to pick a better path. I do not see them going out of business or some other drastic issue, but I believe their poor decision making process will effect their topline revenue and thier bottom line profit, and it will lower thier overall market share.

[ShanteS]

ultimately, all the hoopla about changing the name, destiny, to try and distance itself from a failed ship just shows she's still the destiny, and will carry that stigma to its death. and that lipstick is hardly dry, but quite dusty.

 

rip

 

Why does everyone keep calling the Destiny a "failed ship"?? I sailed on her and loved it!! Why does the Destiny get such a bad rep?

[Sargent_Schultz]

Why does everyone keep calling the Destiny a "failed ship"?? I sailed on her and loved it!! Why does the Destiny get such a bad rep?

 

Not everyone. Just the naysayers, a number of which don't even cruise on Carnival.

 

Looking forward to boarding the new Carnival Sunshine in 10 days!

 

[Seago2]

ultimately, all the hoopla about changing the name, destiny, to try and distance itself from a failed ship just shows she's still the destiny, and will carry that stigma to its death. and that lipstick is hardly dry, but quite dusty.

 

rip

 

OMG- aren't you being overly dramatic?

[Flying Scot]

Regretting booking this ship now for June after hearing that inside story :( Have never tried Carnival before.

[spotte]

Thank you DDD for the very enlightening post. I would hope that the best lesson learned here is for ANY cruiseline to think twice before they use that shipyard again. There should be a full scale investigation and unfortunately, if these occurrences are founded (I have no reason to doubt DDD, he has always been very forthcoming) then the only alternative is to put a lot of people out of work. I would find it interesting to see if DDD thinks that part of the reason for the sabotage was because it WAS Carnival? Did they find that they had a "bigger target"? I think at this point we should all wait to see what the consensus of the actual passengers are on the ship. We can all sit here and debate all the issues and fault, but that is not for us to speculate on. In the past, Carnival, even in these difficult times have been extremely generous on their compensation, etc for passenger inconveniences. Remember that cruise contract that we have to accept that says that they can basically do whatever they want as far as where they go, etc. and we have no recourse? If I were inconvenienced, yes, I too would like to get some sort of compensation. Life is short, make the best of it.

[Dry Dock Dave]

Thank you DDD for the very enlightening post. I would hope that the best lesson learned here is for ANY cruiseline to think twice before they use that shipyard again. There should be a full scale investigation and unfortunately, if these occurrences are founded (I have no reason to doubt DDD, he has always been very forthcoming) then the only alternative is to put a lot of people out of work. I would find it interesting to see if DDD thinks that part of the reason for the sabotage was because it WAS Carnival? Did they find that they had a "bigger target"? I think at this point we should all wait to see what the consensus of the actual passengers are on the ship. We can all sit here and debate all the issues and fault, but that is not for us to speculate on. In the past, Carnival, even in these difficult times have been extremely generous on their compensation, etc for passenger inconveniences. Remember that cruise contract that we have to accept that says that they can basically do whatever they want as far as where they go, etc. and we have no recourse? If I were inconvenienced, yes, I too would like to get some sort of compensation. Life is short, make the best of it.

 

 

I think it would happen to any ship there regardless of which cruise line owned it. We were eating / staying on the Louis Olympia, and I'm 'skilled' enough to be one of few that gets to dine with the officers and above so hear more than most do about the goings on. The Olympia was entering drydock right after the Sunshine, when I asked if it was in Trieste I got laughed at and told no way... at the time I wasn't aware of what that meant, now it's a little clearer.

 

Sad truth is, some people can't resist the opportunity for gain regardless of the expense to others.