Yet another tipping question

[3littlepigs]

My understanding is that the HSC inclusive price to Australian/NZ customers only relates to cruises that depart from Aust/NZ.

 

We cruised Volendam locally and had no HSC added, and X from Asia and had HSC added to the cruise fare when we paid the final balance. X required us to pay the HSC with the final balance as we were on Anytime Dining, funny really when all they were selling through Australian TA's was Anytime Dining! I guess that was making sure the tips were actually paid.

 

I am expecting the HSC will be added again when we cruise Volendam again next year in Asia.

Edited July 18, 2013 by 3littlepigs
clarity

[erewhon]

My understanding is that the HSC inclusive price to Australian/NZ customers only relates to cruises that depart from Aust/NZ.

 

We cruised Volendam locally and had no HSC added, and X from Asia and had HSC added to the cruise fare when we paid the final balance. X required us to pay the HSC with the final balance as we were on Anytime Dining, funny really when all they were selling through Australian TA's was Anytime Dining! I guess that was making sure the tips were actually paid.

 

I am expecting the HSC will be added again when we cruise Volendam again next year in Asia.

 

On your Volendam cruise, was the Hotel Service Charge listed daily on your final shipboard statement??

 

The Hotel Service Charge was listed for each day during both our cruises, Sydney around NZ to Sydney.

[cruz chic]

:D

My understanding is that the HSC inclusive price to Australian/NZ customers only relates to cruises that depart from Aust/NZ.

 

We cruised Volendam locally and had no HSC added, and X from Asia and had HSC added to the cruise fare when we paid the final balance. X required us to pay the HSC with the final balance as we were on Anytime Dining, funny really when all they were selling through Australian TA's was Anytime Dining! I guess that was making sure the tips were actually paid.

 

I am expecting the HSC will be added again when we cruise Volendam again next year in Asia.

 

Anyone that does anytime dining on Celebrity has to pay the tips (yes it is called tips before anyone has a cow :D) up front.

Edited July 18, 2013 by lorekauf

[boards]

On Celebrity Cruise Line when you chose "Select dining option) you pay tips (HSC) up front, that is what happened to us on our recent cruise with them. Actually we liked it, it was an expense taken in advance and your on board expenses did not appear to be much.

[luv2cruisenz]

My understanding is that the HSC inclusive price to Australian/NZ customers only relates to cruises that depart from Aust/NZ. .

Hi, I don't think this applies to the cruises sold out of NZ as the advertising on the HAL flyers state that "gratuities are additional". I have never done the NZ/Australian HAL cruises though so not sure what actually happens on board for the hotel service charge.

 

The FCC on our last cruise told me the HAL policy is that you have to buy the cruise in the currency of your residence, and while HAL (corporate) have the rates for all HAL cruises in Australian dollars they do not have them in New Zealand dollars. There is no HAL office in NZ but there is a representative office here, and they just convert the USD amounts into NZD to make it easier for travel agents to sell.

[Typhoon1]

It is.

 

Why would it be any different in Australia?

 

To answer the OP, you will see the HSC on your shipboard statement.

[Randyk47]

Why would it be any different in Australia?

 

That I don't know. I know and have cruised with a couple from Switzerland who pay more for their HAL cruises than I do, for the same category, and then pay the HSC on top of that. Beats me. :confused:

[erewhon]

Hi, I don't think this applies to the cruises sold out of NZ as the advertising on the HAL flyers state that "gratuities are additional". I have never done the NZ/Australian HAL cruises though so not sure what actually happens on board for the hotel service charge.

 

The FCC on our last cruise told me the HAL policy is that you have to buy the cruise in the currency of your residence, and while HAL (corporate) have the rates for all HAL cruises in Australian dollars they do not have them in New Zealand dollars. There is no HAL office in NZ but there is a representative office here, and they just convert the USD amounts into NZD to make it easier for travel agents to sell.

 

We were first told we had to buy the cruise in either Australian or US dollars.

We chose $US the first time we purchased a Future Cruise Deposit, which continues.

We choose which cruise to book from the HAL website, the prices are listed in $US.

When we decide which cruise to book I ask our local Travel Agent to make the booking.

He then has to contact the HAL agent based in Auckland.

At payment time we ask our Travel Agent to contact the HAL Agent to obtain their exchange rate for the $US.

We then write the cheque in NZ dollars for our local Travel Agent to forward to the HAL agent.

 

On board the ship, no matter which cruise (either from Sydney, Australia or North America) the Hotel Service Charge appears as a daily charge on the final statement.

[Blueeyes59]

Maybe this isn't exactly the right or correct thread but I wish HAL would just roll the hotel service charge (aka tips or gratuities) into the basic fare get it over with. To me it's like the old Fram oil filter ads with their "pay me now or pay me later" slogan. Barring just horrible service, which I've personally only experienced once in a dozen cruises with one person on HAL, I don't see the need to show it as a separate charge that can be removed by the passenger. That may not be very popular here but that's how I feel. Our cruise last year, not on HAL, was a "tips included" fare, actually stated in terms of them paying higher than average salaries, and the cruise line strongly discourages tipping. If you insist on tipping then the line suggests you give the tip to the "crew fund" that is used for crew parties, crew member emergencies, etc. Our cruise next year is on Seabourn which is also a "no tips expected or required" line so it's not like it there isn't some experience with that approach under the larger Carnival Corporation umbrella.

 

 

Hi Randy K 47,

I totally agree with you that this crazy service charge/tipping should be included in the fare before you Pay to get onboard. I am from Australia and cruises on Princess and P&O do not have this. When I look for a cruise I look for Bargains and then after I get a really good price and pay the travel agent, I get Papers emailled to me saying and additional $11.50 per day will be added to the Cruise for DAILY SERVICE CHARGE.($161 for 14 day cruise) If Holland America where to pay their staff a decent wage they would not need to rely on every passenger paying a daily charge. I recently found another Cruise critic put this post up.

richard1s

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 361

 

 

The Grinch who took back the Hotel Service Charge

On our recent HAL cruise, I was at Guest Services the last evening of the cruise getting a copy of my bill. A man was next to me demanding from the person attending to him that the hotel service charge be removed from his statement. I believe from his accent that he was from a European country. He called the service charge "outrageous" and "ridiculous"; he was extremely rude and demeaning to the poor individual he was speaking too.

 

To me, it is very unfortunate that any cruise line accommodates this request. In my opinion, this should be a fixed cost of the cruise.

 

I imagine that some passengers may view this as "tipping" which, I know is not customary in many parts of the world. But some cruise lines charge this fee upfront at the time of booking. I am not certain if the passenger can still get a credit for the service charge at the end of the cruise but maybe it would be less likely.

 

I think it would be a positive step for HAL to consider this method of charging the service fee so their employees are certain to be paid for all their hard work.

 

As far as Im am concerned Most of the folk who Like to tip are from the USA, and because I have booked on a ship registered in the US HAL expect me to Pay the extra and in US $ no less.. Outrageous !!

[Stratheden]

I have just checked the price anonymously of a cruise leaving Sydney on 25th March, 2016 on a 14 day New Zealand Discovery.

 

Signature Suite AUD$4698.73

USD$3532.27

 

Conversion rate. 0.7518

 

I am in Melbourne, Australia and when on the Holland America site the contact no's are Australian phone no's.

 

Anyone want to check the US website prices for comparison?

[emmtee]

I have just checked the price anonymously of a cruise leaving Sydney on 25th March, 2016 on a 14 day New Zealand Discovery.

 

Signature Suite AUD$4698.73

USD$3532.27

 

Conversion rate. 0.7518

 

I am in Melbourne, Australia and when on the Holland America site the contact no's are Australian phone no's.

 

Anyone want to check the US website prices for comparison?

 

When I looked up this cruise, it listed the price of the Signature Suite as "From USD 3,499*" (AUD 4,654.47). When I selected the Signature Suite, it clarified that this is the price for the SY category stateroom.

 

"*Fares are in US$, per person, based on double occupancy. Fares reflect best fare available for a stateroom in each category, on one date that this itinerary is available from a snapshot taken in the last 24 hours. Fares do not include Taxes, Fees & Port Expenses."

[Stratheden]

When I looked up this cruise, it listed the price of the Signature Suite as "From USD 3,499*" (AUD 4,654.47). When I selected the Signature Suite, it clarified that this is the price for the SY category stateroom.

 

"*Fares are in US$, per person, based on double occupancy. Fares reflect best fare available for a stateroom in each category, on one date that this itinerary is available from a snapshot taken in the last 24 hours. Fares do not include Taxes, Fees & Port Expenses."

 

Yes we are comparing the same category stateroom. So we pay AUD$44 more in Australia.

 

The only time Australians don't pay the HSC on a HAL cruise is when it is offered as part of Land/Sea package tour with a company like Scenic Tours or APT. They advertise their tours as all inclusive. You can guarantee you pay the HSC to Scenic or APT though who pass it on to HAL . It just doesn't appear on your itemised account from HAL.

[Opua Kiwi]

Maybe this isn't exactly the right or correct thread but I wish HAL would just roll the hotel service charge (aka tips or gratuities) into the basic fare get it over with.

Precisely.

 

Disclaimer: when in Rome I do as the Romans do;

IE: I tip expected amounts when traveling thru places such as the States (including US cruise ships)

 

However, the 'no tipping is normal' culture is SO much more pleasant downunder.

 

Build proper wages into restaurant, bar, cruise prices etc and then just leave a smaller amount over and above if you so wish.

 

Removes a heck of a lot of these types of discussion you folks in the Northern hemisphere seem to endlessly have.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Opua Kiwi

[Stratheden]

Precisely.

 

Disclaimer: when in Rome I do as the Romans do;

IE: I tip expected amounts when traveling thru places such as the States (including US cruise ships)

 

However, the 'no tipping is normal' culture is SO much more pleasant downunder.

 

Build proper wages into restaurant, bar, cruise prices etc and then just leave a smaller amount over and above if you so wish.

 

Removes a heck of a lot of these types of discussion you folks in the Northern hemisphere seem to endlessly have.

 

Totally agree.

[chefestelle]

Precisely.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: when in Rome I do as the Romans do;

 

IE: I tip expected amounts when traveling thru places such as the States (including US cruise ships)

 

 

 

However, the 'no tipping is normal' culture is SO much more pleasant downunder.

 

 

 

Build proper wages into restaurant, bar, cruise prices etc and then just leave a smaller amount over and above if you so wish.

 

 

 

Removes a heck of a lot of these types of discussion you folks in the Northern hemisphere seem to endlessly have.

 

 

Yes, wages are evidently better for service industries in Aus and NZ. Even our minimum wage in Canada is lower for service than other industries. I would much rather have the servers etc paid properly or have the whole tip included like they do for large groups in restaurants north of the border. I don't have a need to personally hand out my tip and would continue to top up where I have been served particularly well.

[Blueeyes59]

After reading a few more comments re; tipping and daily service charge, I am pleased that i am not the only person thinking that cruise Lines should increase staff wages to reflect "NO Tipping". In saying this I also would tip if i had exceptional service ( Room Steward, Waiter etc) But For Goodness Sake will the cruise companies Not Take notice of what Folks are saying on Cruise Critic regarding this problem. Just Give us a price Up front for the Cruise, Food and Entertainment and let us decide Who we Tip. this culture is a rought for Companies Like HAL to stiff you into giving More money everytime you Blink. Also dont get me started on On Board credit, They give it to you in One hand and take it of you in the other. What good is a $400 OBC when after a 14 day cruise you have $161 deducted for daily Housekeeping ??? what a joke. That would not happen if you booked into a Hotel. The price you pay for a room in a hotel is inclusive of housekeeping charges. I would be interested to know if any fellow cruise critics has ever contacted HAL or other companies regarding this, and asked them when they carry out this practice ?;)

[erewhon]

Precisely.

 

Disclaimer: when in Rome I do as the Romans do;

IE: I tip expected amounts when traveling thru places such as the States (including US cruise ships)

 

However, the 'no tipping is normal' culture is SO much more pleasant downunder.

 

Build proper wages into restaurant, bar, cruise prices etc and then just leave a smaller amount over and above if you so wish.

 

Removes a heck of a lot of these types of discussion you folks in the Northern hemisphere seem to endlessly have.

 

Absolutely agree with you.

[zerbot]

I find myself wondering if HAL quotes higher fare prices to passengers who have removed the HSC in the past. :D

[Mary Ellen]

The current tipping policy, rather than having tips included in our fare, is apparently beneficial to the crew. It makes NO difference to me if we pay the amount up front in our cruise price or pay it once onboard. I'm not about to dictate to anyone about how they should get paid.

 

From someone in a position to know:

 

You also do not know the specifics of the agreements and requirements between the cruise lines, the manning agencies in other countries, and the tax offices of the national governments of the tipped crewmembers.

 

Many Asian countries require the cruise lines to send a percentage of the tipped crew's salary (not their tips) back to their home country - through the manning agent - for tax purposes.

If the gratuities become part of the fare, they also become part of the crew salary. That forces the cruise lines to send a much higher percentage of the crew earnings back to their government, who then takes a much deeper cut of those earnings.

In the process, the manning agent who is handling those funds, fiddles with the exchange rates and skims a nice percentage off for himself.

 

Depending on many factors, adding the gratuities to the fare can result in a net loss for the service staff.

[ellieanne]

I find myself wondering if HAL quotes higher fare prices to passengers who have removed the HSC in the past. :D

 

How would they know?

 

On the internet, if you don't enter your Mariner number, clear your cache, or use anonymous browser winders, how would they know it's a particular passenger?

 

On the phone, if the caller doesn't give the Mariner number or their name to get booking information, how would they know?

 

Through a travel agent, if there is no mention of Mariner numbers or passenger names, how would they know?

 

Using IP addresses or phone numbers would be a dangerous option as (1) those can and are reassigned regularly, and (2) the person looking things up might not be the Mariner in question.

[serendipity1499]

After reading a few more comments re; tipping and daily service charge, I am pleased that i am not the only person thinking that cruise Lines should increase staff wages to reflect "NO Tipping". In saying this I also would tip if i had exceptional service ( Room Steward, Waiter etc) But For Goodness Sake will the cruise companies Not Take notice of what Folks are saying on Cruise Critic regarding this problem. Just Give us a price Up front for the Cruise, Food and Entertainment and let us decide Who we Tip. this culture is a rought for Companies Like HAL to stiff you into giving More money everytime you Blink. Also dont get me started on On Board credit, They give it to you in One hand and take it of you in the other. What good is a $400 OBC when after a 14 day cruise you have $161 deducted for daily Housekeeping ??? what a joke. That would not happen if you booked into a Hotel. The price you pay for a room in a hotel is inclusive of housekeeping charges. I would be interested to know if any fellow cruise critics has ever contacted HAL or other companies regarding this, and asked them when they carry out this practice ?;)

 

I bolded this statement because you are not correct.. Many hotels, country club's, all inclusives in the USA & in Europe charge a Hotel Service charge.. One of our local ones her in SW Florida charges an 18% Hotel Service charge on the rooms as well as on all the meals you pay for on their property..

 

I traveled extensively in my job & paid Hotel Service charges in many parts of the world.. Take a look at Mary Ellen's post above which quotes Bruce Muzz, who was & may still be, a Hotel Manager for many different cruise lines.. He & Phillip217 another Officer have often explained why Hotel Service charges can't be added to the fares..

 

Realize it's not the norm to tip in Australia, New Zealand & the UK, but when I took a 10 day tour of Australia in the early 70's, I tipped & my tip was never refused..

 

 

The current tipping policy, rather than having tips included in our fare, is apparently beneficial to the crew. It makes NO difference to me if we pay the amount up front in our cruise price or pay it once onboard. I'm not about to dictate to anyone about how they should get paid.

 

From someone in a position to know:

 

 

Thanks for posting Bruce Muzz's repy.. You also might want to read Bruce Muzz post No 73 in Feb. 2012..

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=32624244&postcount=73

 

In May of 2008 Phillip217 also posted about salaries & discussed the History of Tipping & why the Cruise Lines cannot incorporate tips in your Cruise cost.. This is what he said..

 

"For all of those who whine and moan about just adding extra money to the price of the cruise and omitting tipping altogether, you may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have actually considered that idea a few times over the past 100 years. If we did it, that money would be taxable and commissionable, reducing the net earnings of our crew rather substantially.

 

Phillip answers several more questions throughout this thread ...His posts are very informative...I downloaded a couple of his posts into WORD, (4 pages) However, failed to note the URL for the thread & can't pull up anything for 2008..

 

Phillip goes on to explain what waiters make on most cruise lines..He claims that all Crew are guaranteed a minimum wage in their contract: $1.00 per day plus tips with a minimum guarantee.. This is part of what he said:

 

"Most cruise line waiters are promised a MINIMUM GUARANTEED SALARY of around US$1600 - US$2200 PER MONTH."

 

He goes on to say that when ships go into dry dock, if the & waiters have not made their guaranteed minimum the cruise line must put $$$ into the tipping pool..

 

Remember, Phillip217 said this in 2008, the guaranteed salary's are probably higher today..

 

You should be able up both of their posts if you look for them on the CC member list, but If anyone has the ability to pull up the URL it might be worth it to bring the thread forward again or even post the URL on this thread...

 

I came across this Event Planning blog about Hotel Service charges.. Some bloggers also complain that some properties charge 18 % to 22% Service charges..

 

http://blog.cvent.com/blog/food-for-thought/gratuities-tips-and-service-charges

Edited July 6, 2015 by serendipity1499

[serendipity1499]

Forgot to mention that CNN =NYC did an in-depth report on Hotel Service charges which include mini-bar re-stocking fees -you pay for the drink & then they add a restocking fee on to that) gratituities, etc..It's very interesting:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/10/travel/hotel-fees/

[Randyk47]

While I respect the posters here and see merit in their positions I still have to wonder how, despite the arguments presented here, do the lines that include gratuities in their basic fares manage that. Obviously they do so to say they can't isn't accurate. ??????

[ScriptOhio]

Thanks for posting Bruce Muzz's repy.. You also might want to read Bruce Muzz post No 73 in Feb. 2012..

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=32624244&postcount=73

 

In May of 2008 Phillip217 also posted about salaries & discussed the History of Tipping & why the Cruise Lines cannot incorporate tips in your Cruise cost.. This is what he said..

 

"For all of those who whine and moan about just adding extra money to the price of the cruise and omitting tipping altogether, you may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have actually considered that idea a few times over the past 100 years. If we did it, that money would be taxable and commissionable, reducing the net earnings of our crew rather substantially.

 

 

Just sayin': Income is income. If you can avoid paying taxes on the money just because you call it a "service charge" as opposed to a "gratuity" and/or "tip" then the tax code is flawed and should be changed to eliminate the "tax loophole".

 

[zerbot]

Just sayin': Income is income. If you can avoid paying taxes on the money just because you call it a "service charge" as opposed to a "gratuity" and/or "tip" then the tax code is flawed and should be changed to eliminate the "tax loophole".

 

It's not in lieu of calling it a "gratuity" or "tip" it's in lieu of calling it "fare". There are tax jurisdictions that treat service charges/gratuities/tips differently. For instance, in Washington state, service charges/gratuities/tips that are voluntarily provided by the customer and which go directly to service employees aren't subject to state sales tax. If it is a mandatory charge or if management takes a cut, sales tax is supposed to be charged on the amount.