pre paid tips ? Why do some not pay

[loxley]

This is not true. If you pre pay, you can certainly adjust.

 

you used to not be able to.

 

Okay so I am brand new to cruising and am planning our first one for January. My husband 3 kids and myself are in one room. I prepaid our tips (not knowing any different). So now my cruise is paid in full how do people cancel tips? They can't hand you back x amount back in cash or credit you back can they?

I think the option shouldn't even be there. Tipping shouldn't be an option!!

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

Really? I think you would change your mind if you get that one in a hundred sucky room steward. Yeah, they exist.

[Ams1201]

Okay so if I did get a really bad room steward what are my options if I have prepaid?? I paid through a TA so how do they even refund it? Or if I chose to do cash how does that work?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[MMastell]

The simple answer is that majority of people who remove their automatic gratuities are cheap. That's it: Cheap.

 

People can rationalize their reasoning all they want but if they pull their tips they are only hurting the people who provided service to them and not Carnival or any other cruise line.

 

If you don't like the current system then write the nastiest letter you can to Gary Cahill, start a boycott, stop cruising or contact the media and have them do an expose. However, if you cruise, don't take the "salary" away from the people who serve you. That's just mean. Sort of like someone who doesn't approve of public breast feeding and slaps the baby for doing it.

 

Back in the early part of the century, (around 2002) NCL did a very good job of finding out who paid the gratuity and who didn't. Of the people that removed the gratuity, saying that they wanted to pay in person, only 20% of them actually gave gratuities. The rest of them just stiffed the service personnel.

 

For those who complain that .50 to $1.00 of their gratuity may go to a galley or engine room worker(s) as a bonus for good work then you have a strange set of priorities or are just rationalizing being cheap.

 

If you do receive poor service then bring it to the attention of a superior, or guest services, immediately. They will do their best to resolve the issue. If they can't then you are more than entitled to remove that portion of the gratuity.

 

For those who would love to see the gratuity just rolled into the price of the cruise it would make things much more simple. However, I wonder how many people would not cruise when the low end price of the cruise was no longer $399 and increased to $489. I think a number of people would think this was too much and not sail. This would hurt the company's bottom line and no one would cruise.

 

The current system is in place and if you want to cruise than pay the gratuity. Otherwise you can just stay home or cruise a line like Regent, Azamara or Crystal where gratuities are included. With the increased price I think you would prefer to pay the gratuity.

 

Take care,

Mike

[neon706]

It is my money and I will do with it as I see fit.

 

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2

[kylenyc]

Many people are selfish, some are also malicious, and there are some folks from countries where it's simply customary not to tip.

 

It's customary in the US to tip yet some people will tip nothing, some will tip the customary amount (10% poor, 15% good, 20% excellent), some will tip a lot. If the crew are dissatisfied and can't accept this, they probably shouldn't be in the hospitality business. That being said, I think it's unethical to tip nothing. I'm of the school where if you are truly unsatisfied, you tip a minimal amount (10%). In the case of Carnival that would mean reduce the gratuity by 50% assuming that the full amount equates to excellent service, plus complain or write a nasty-gram to management, but never tip nothing.

 

Regarding gratuity vs service charge - A gratuity is typically paid 100% to crew/employees and may not be withheld by the employer. However, a portion of a service charge may be withheld by the employer.

 

For example, Royal Caribbean, like Carnival, also automatically adds gratuities and states they divide them among the crew. Norwegian on the other hand calls it a Service Charge and specifically states that they use a portion of the amount towards "crew welfare programs" and they may distribute the funds at their own discretion i.e. they may pay more to specific crew or departments based on customer feedback/surveys as part of an incentive program.

Edited October 21, 2013 by kylenyc

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Many people are selfish, some are also malicious, and there are some folks from countries where it's simply customary not to tip.

 

It's customary in the US to tip yet some people will tip nothing, some will tip the customary amount (10% poor, 15% good, 20% excellent), some will tip a lot. If the crew are dissatisfied and can't accept this, they probably shouldn't be in the hospitality business. That being said, I think it's unethical to tip nothing. I'm of the school where if you are truly unsatisfied, you tip a minimal amount (10%). In the case of Carnival that would mean reduce the gratuity by 50% assuming that the full amount equates to excellent service, plus complain or write a nasty-gram to management, but never tip nothing.

 

Regarding gratuity vs service charge - A gratuity is typically paid 100% to crew/employees and may not be withheld by the employer. However, a portion of a service charge may be withheld by the employer.

 

For example, Royal Caribbean, like Carnival, also automatically adds gratuities and states they divide them among the crew. Norwegian on the other hand calls it a Service Charge and specifically states that they use a portion of the amount towards "crew welfare programs" and they may distribute the funds at their own discretion i.e. they may pay more to specific crew or departments based on customer feedback/surveys as part of an incentive program.

You mentioned NCL uses the term "crew welfare programs", can you confirm that, not that I doubt you.

 

We are thinking of trying of NCL's newer ships within the next couple of years, Breakaway or Gateway. If you or anyone else can confirm NCL considers a portion of the gratuity as "crew welfare", we will NEVER book NCL, it's so demeaning! After all their workers are human beings like any of us.

[Tithonus]

You mentioned NCL uses the term "crew welfare programs", can you confirm that, not that I doubt you.

 

We are thinking of trying of NCL's newer ships within the next couple of years, Breakaway or Gateway. If you or anyone else can confirm NCL considers a portion of the gratuity as "crew welfare", we will NEVER book NCL, it's so demeaning! After all their workers are human beings like any of us.

 

Obviously, you have created your own definition of welfare, or attached a stigma to it.

 

Besides only being a word, there's nothing wrong with that application.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

The simple answer is that majority of people who remove their automatic gratuities are cheap. That's it: Cheap.

 

People can rationalize their reasoning all they want but if they pull their tips they are only hurting the people who provided service to them and not Carnival or any other cruise line.

 

If you don't like the current system then write the nastiest letter you can to Gary Cahill, start a boycott, stop cruising or contact the media and have them do an expose. However, if you cruise, don't take the "salary" away from the people who serve you. That's just mean. Sort of like someone who doesn't approve of public breast feeding and slaps the baby for doing it.

 

Back in the early part of the century, (around 2002) NCL did a very good job of finding out who paid the gratuity and who didn't. Of the people that removed the gratuity, saying that they wanted to pay in person, only 20% of them actually gave gratuities. The rest of them just stiffed the service personnel.

 

For those who complain that .50 to $1.00 of their gratuity may go to a galley or engine room worker(s) as a bonus for good work then you have a strange set of priorities or are just rationalizing being cheap.

 

If you do receive poor service then bring it to the attention of a superior, or guest services, immediately. They will do their best to resolve the issue. If they can't then you are more than entitled to remove that portion of the gratuity.

 

For those who would love to see the gratuity just rolled into the price of the cruise it would make things much more simple. However, I wonder how many people would not cruise when the low end price of the cruise was no longer $399 and increased to $489. I think a number of people would think this was too much and not sail. This would hurt the company's bottom line and no one would cruise.

 

The current system is in place and if you want to cruise than pay the gratuity. Otherwise you can just stay home or cruise a line like Regent, Azamara or Crystal where gratuities are included. With the increased price I think you would prefer to pay the gratuity.

 

Take care,

Mike

Agree with almost all of your very meaningful comments:

 

But IMHO, my guesses only, no proof what so ever ..

 

(1) I doubt CCL will lose too many passengers " ... when the low end price of the cruise was no longer $399 and increased to $489.". 2 parameters (a) CCL has to be upfront about it, publish the fare and also the service charge (b) give a statement in writing, publish on their website that indicates 100% of the service charge (or gratuities) are passed along to the workers. The big wigs at CCL have to figure all that out.

 

(2) I don't know why but my gut feeling is that a number of passengers canceling/removing the auto tips may not be occupying the cheapest cabins. At the risk of ... I am an accountant with my own practice (23 years and counting), over the years, I have met a number of people who have money to burn. A few of them are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! Those are clients I usually ended up dumping!

[Tithonus]

Many people are selfish, some are also malicious, and there are some folks from countries where it's simply customary not to tip.

 

It's customary in the US to tip yet some people will tip nothing, some will tip the customary amount (10% poor, 15% good, 20% excellent), some will tip a lot. If the crew are dissatisfied and can't accept this, they probably shouldn't be in the hospitality business. That being said, I think it's unethical to tip nothing. I'm of the school where if you are truly unsatisfied, you tip a minimal amount (10%). In the case of Carnival that would mean reduce the gratuity by 50% assuming that the full amount equates to excellent service, plus complain or write a nasty-gram to management, but never tip nothing.

 

Regarding gratuity vs service charge - A gratuity is typically paid 100% to crew/employees and may not be withheld by the employer. However, a portion of a service charge may be withheld by the employer.

 

For example, Royal Caribbean, like Carnival, also automatically adds gratuities and states they divide them among the crew. Norwegian on the other hand calls it a Service Charge and specifically states that they use a portion of the amount towards "crew welfare programs" and they may distribute the funds at their own discretion i.e. they may pay more to specific crew or departments based on customer feedback/surveys as part of an incentive program.

 

In a service charge environment, the employers get to choose an agreed upon salary. I wouldn't expect a new hire to make the same as someone on the job for ten years.

 

Tipping, a new hire CAN make the the same as the ten year veteran.

 

But someone not cut out for the job should surely not be rewarded to continue performing shoddy work. Hopefully he is under tipped enough to reconsider this work is not made out for him.

 

Luckily for us, he has to prove himself to the company before being rewarded in serving others and reaching that tipping pay structure.

[jimbo5544]

It is my money and I will do with it as I see fit.

 

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2

Nobody is arguing that. But if you recant on tips beware to wear the moniker you so well deserve.:cool:

[Tithonus]

 

 

 

Really? I think you would change your mind if you get that one in a hundred sucky room steward. Yeah, they exist.

 

Exactly. We had the worlds worst waiter one cruise. Even the MD was apologizing for him without us saying a peep. He was "rewarded" appropriately. Hopefully he was fired as well.

 

Good thing that was the only time.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Tithonus

[Tithonus]

you used to not be able to.

 

 

 

.

 

True. And had that been posted when you couldn't, I wouldn't have corrected that poster.

[jimbo5544]

Exactly. We had the worlds worst waiter one cruise. Even the MD was apologizing for him without us saying a peep. He was "rewarded" appropriately. Hopefully he was fired as well.

 

Good thing that was the only time.

We saw one being let go at the end of an Alaskan cruise. Imagine trying to get to the Ukraine from Anchorage?:confused:

[Goldwolf]

some will tip the customary amount (10% poor, 15% good, 20% excellent), some will tip a lot. I'm of the school where if you are truly unsatisfied, you tip a minimal amount (10%).

 

Forgetting about cruising specifically, this is the bit I struggle with. In the UK employees get a minimum wage above that which is received in the US. A tip is for good service on top of just doing your job. I hear from my US friends how the tipping culture encourages good service, but if you tip however bad the service is, I don't really understand how that can be the case?

 

For the record I pay the recommended tips, but as a European I do feel deceived about the way it is described because I know it should really be called "Staff Wages". ;)

[Tithonus]

Okay so if I did get a really bad room steward what are my options if I have prepaid?? I paid through a TA so how do they even refund it? Or if I chose to do cash how does that work?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

You would do it at guest services, and the adjustment would be made to your S&S account in the form of a credit.

 

Should you choose to do cash, just ask for some tipping envelopes.

[Tithonus]

We saw one being let go at the end of an Alaskan cruise. Imagine trying to get to the Ukraine from Anchorage?:confused:

 

I would just head west. :)

[Tithonus]

Forgetting about cruising specifically, this is the bit I struggle with. In the UK employees get a minimum wage above that which is received in the US. A tip is for good service on top of just doing your job. I hear from my US friends how the tipping culture encourages good service, but if you tip however bad the service is, I don't really understand how that can be the case?

 

For the record I pay the recommended tips, but as a European I do feel deceived about the way it is described because I know it should really be called "Staff Wages". ;)

 

Even some states in the US got wise. There are now 4 where servers MUST be paid minimum wage, not that $2.13 wage you oft hear about.

[e2011]

I'm of the school where if you are truly unsatisfied, you tip a minimal amount (10%).

 

 

Why would you tip anything if you were unsatisfied? Just curious your reasoning for this. To me, and I am not saying you are wrong because everyone has their own opinion, tipping for bad service is simply rewarding bad behavior. If a dog doesn't bite you, you reward him with a treat. If he does bite you should you give him a smaller treat?

[jimbo5544]

Forgetting about cruising specifically, this is the bit I struggle with. In the UK employees get a minimum wage above that which is received in the US. A tip is for good service on top of just doing your job. I hear from my US friends how the tipping culture encourages good service, but if you tip however bad the service is, I don't really understand how that can be the case?

 

For the record I pay the recommended tips, but as a European I do feel deceived about the way it is described because I know it should really be called "Staff Wages". ;)

I understand the different viewpoint but, and I had this same discussion with a couple from the UK on the Legend in February, it is just different. I don't believe there is any deceit involved. It's just the way way it is done. I guess you can call it whatever you like. It is pretty interesting the different viewpoints.

[Goldwolf]

Why would you tip anything if you were unsatisfied? Just curious your reasoning for this. To me, and I am not saying you are wrong because everyone has their own opinion, tipping for bad service is simply rewarding bad behavior. If a dog doesn't bite you, you reward him with a treat. If he does bite you should you give him a smaller treat?

 

Glad it's not just me.

[jimbo5544]

Why would you tip anything if you were unsatisfied? Just curious your reasoning for this. To me, and I am not saying you are wrong because everyone has their own opinion, tipping for bad service is simply rewarding bad behavior. If a dog doesn't bite you, you reward him with a treat. If he does bite you should you give him a smaller treat?

I guess the question becomes what does unsatisfied really mean? I have seen some pretty lame explanations given here on that very subject.

[kentuckyluckyguy]

On my recent 5 day Ecstasy cruise I believe they put the tips on the Sail and Sign card at some point on Tuesday.

 

When I went down to Guest Services on Friday afternoon to settle up my balance there was a lady beside me asking for the tips to be removed. She said "I only ate in the main dining room for one night so I want the tips removed for all except that one night". She kept repeating herself over and over and made sort of a big deal about it.

 

Perhaps she left cash for the cabin steward. No idea. To me it's just easier to have it taken off the card and then leave extra. As someone said, $11.50 per day to be divided among those who take care of you and assure you have a good trip is pretty cheap.

[jimbo5544]

To me it's just easier to have it taken off the card and then leave extra. As someone said, $11.50 per day to be divided among those who take care of you and assure you have a good trip is pretty cheap.

It may get you where you want, but it certainly is not easier.....

[kylenyc]

You mentioned NCL uses the term "crew welfare programs", can you confirm that, not that I doubt you.

 

We are thinking of trying of NCL's newer ships within the next couple of years, Breakaway or Gateway. If you or anyone else can confirm NCL considers a portion of the gratuity as "crew welfare", we will NEVER book NCL, it's so demeaning! After all their workers are human beings like any of us.

 

As someone else said, I think you're attaching a meaning from a different context i.e. a government social welfare program. Welfare - for the well-being and support of.

 

"Crew welfare program" is a direct quote from NCL's terms and conditions. I believe the programs include things like parties for the crew. Quote "A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs" http://www.ncl.com/csimages/75/492/Combined_Final_Land%20_Sea_TCs.pdf

 

Why would you tip anything if you were unsatisfied? Just curious your reasoning for this. To me, and I am not saying you are wrong because everyone has their own opinion, tipping for bad service is simply rewarding bad behavior. If a dog doesn't bite you, you reward him with a treat. If he does bite you should you give him a smaller treat?

 

It's just something I was taught from one of those old etiquette columns ... Anne Landers or Miss Manners or something. I think the rational is that tipping 10% for poor service, you aren't denying the waiter of making a minimum wage, but you aren't rewarding them either. You will however complain to their manager and leave it up to them to discipline their employees. In the US, employers may pay waiters below minimum wage and the waiter then must earn the rest through gratuities.

 

In a practical sense, I would never tip 0% at any restaurant I plan to ever visit again because it may result in vindictive action by the waiter i.e. saliva or worse in your food and you can bet that happens (been a waiter, know waiters, they admit to it). I wonder if cruise lines add notes to passenger dossiers when they remove gratuities/service charges.

Edited October 21, 2013 by kylenyc

[Elaine5715]

As someone else said, I think you're attaching a meaning from a different context i.e. a government social welfare program. Welfare - for the well-being and support of.

 

"Crew welfare program" is a direct quote from NCL's terms and conditions. I believe the programs include things like parties for the crew. Quote "A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs" http://www.ncl.com/csimages/75/492/Combined_Final_Land%20_Sea_TCs.pdf

 

 

 

It's just something I was taught from one of those old etiquette columns ... Anne Landers or Miss Manners or something. I think the rational is that tipping 10% for poor service, you aren't denying the waiter of making a minimum wage, but you aren't rewarding them either. You will however complain to their manager and leave it up to them to discipline their employees. In the US, employers may pay waiters below minimum wage and the waiter then must earn the rest through gratuities.

 

In a practical sense, I would never tip 0% at any restaurant I plan to ever visit again because it may result in vindictive action by the waiter i.e. saliva or worse in your food and you can bet that happens (been a waiter, know waiters, they admit to it). I wonder if cruise lines add notes to passenger dossiers when they remove gratuities/service charges.

 

Many hotels, especially those with frequent guests programs, make note of guest habits. While I don't know if the cruise line does, I know they don't need to because the crew remembers you. Many who work in the service industry do.