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Caribbean Princess out of Houston Review Nov 9-16


whataboutport
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Thank you for your post. We are doing this cruise in January, and it will be our first time sailing out of Houston, so I look forward to hearing your experiences.

 

One question: what time did you arrive at the Bayport terminal on embarkation day?

 

Also, though I suspect you'll get to this later, did you by chance do the Princess excursion to Sergeant's Caye or Water Caye in Belize and, if so, what did you think?

 

Thanks again; looking forward to hearing more about your trip.

 

Sorry about the delay in reply. I'm just going back now and checking to see what posts I've missed. To answer your questions, we arrived at Bayport just before noon. It took about 1.5 hrs to get thru security and check in, and we were in our cabin by about 1:30. If you take Super shuttle or some other form of transport, you would have a good change of getting to port sooner and thus getting thru security/check in much earlier. However, seems like Bayport/Houston and even Galveston get lots of fog during this time of year and that could delay the cruise before you to disembark late, which would cause you to embark late.

 

And to answer your last question, we did Goff's Caye in Belize. However, since Belize is home to the world's 2nd largest barrier reef, I suspect that any snorkeling would be sweet on this port. I'm not an advanced snorkeler, but the reef on Belize was the best I've ever seen, and I have snorkeled in HI before.

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Sorry about the delay in reply. I'm just going back now and checking to see what posts I've missed. To answer your questions, we arrived at Bayport just before noon. It took about 1.5 hrs to get thru security and check in, and we were in our cabin by about 1:30. If you take Super shuttle or some other form of transport, you would have a good change of getting to port sooner and thus getting thru security/check in much earlier. However, seems like Bayport/Houston and even Galveston get lots of fog during this time of year and that could delay the cruise before you to disembark late, which would cause you to embark late.

 

And to answer your last question, we did Goff's Caye in Belize. However, since Belize is home to the world's 2nd largest barrier reef, I suspect that any snorkeling would be sweet on this port. I'm not an advanced snorkeler, but the reef on Belize was the best I've ever seen, and I have snorkeled in HI before.

 

Thank you SO much for your response, and for your all your posts and pic's. Really looking forward to this cruise. We've sailed on the CB several times, and have hit all the ports except Belize in the past, so really looking forward to that (we LOVE to snorkel; Tahiti was the best we've every seen.) Oh, and isn't Tulum amazing? ;)

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Thanks for the review. We were on that cruise too. We did not take the Princess shuttle from Houston Hobby to Bayport. We made a reservation with Super Shuttle. Their booth is right next to the Princess transfer booth at the airport. It got us to the Bayport well ahead of the Princess bus, and before the gang plank went down. Our wait wasn't nearly as long as yours. We used Super Shuttle on a trip to San Francisco and it worked out great, so we tried it in Houston. It was quicker than the Princess bus for about the same price.

 

One of the employees told us to sit in the back rows of seating for our color (for boarding the ship) because we would get on faster. That was true.

 

Due to fog when we returned to Houston after the cruise, we missed our flight home. My suggestion is to walk off with all your luggage, and take a cab to the airport. If you get delayed because of fog, this will increase your chances of making your flight.

 

I apologize for not making myself clear. :eek: I was talking about the Bayport cruise terminal. After you check in, you get a color & number for orderly boarding of the ship. If you sit in the back rows of your color, you are closer the doors where you enter the gangway area. LOL I can see why you'd be confused! :D

 

Great pics & review. Enjoying every minute of it!

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I have been studying pictures of the EMPTY Bayport terminal for many months now.

I know where the check-in counters are.

I know where the escalator and stairs are to go up to the gangplank level.

 

Was there a pre-boarding seating area in that same large room?

Is there really a lounge (Elite, Suites) in another room (see attached) or just roped off in that big room?

 

bayport_cruise_terminal_6.07.2013-6.jpg

 

 

~sent using Cruise Critic app~

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Thank you SO much for your response, and for your all your posts and pic's. Really looking forward to this cruise. We've sailed on the CB several times, and have hit all the ports except Belize in the past, so really looking forward to that (we LOVE to snorkel; Tahiti was the best we've every seen.) Oh, and isn't Tulum amazing? ;)

I would love to go to Tahiti someday. More specifically Moorea. But I don't think it will happen anytime soon. :(

The snorkeling in Belize was OMG wow. I am so kicking myself for not bringing my Go Pro charger! I'll go in more detail later today, which I"m doing the Goff's Caye part of the review today.

And yes Tulum was amazing!! Even more than what I expected.

 

I apologize for not making myself clear. :eek: I was talking about the Bayport cruise terminal. After you check in, you get a color & number for orderly boarding of the ship. If you sit in the back rows of your color, you are closer the doors where you enter the gangway area. LOL I can see why you'd be confused! :D

 

Great pics & review. Enjoying every minute of it!

Oh I see. By the time we checked in, they were letting people just walk on up. But while we were waiting to get checked in, I did see a lot of people sitting waiting for their number to be called.

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We are doing this cruise early Feb.. your review is getting me more and more excited. So fun to have something to look forward to after the Holidays. I love the details you mention, really helps with our planning. Thanks!

My pleasure! I wish I had a review to stalk before I went, but all the CB reviews were for British Isles. So I'm glad to help!

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I have been studying pictures of the EMPTY Bayport terminal for many months now.

I know where the check-in counters are.

I know where the escalator and stairs are to go up to the gangplank level.

 

Was there a pre-boarding seating area in that same large room?

Is there really a lounge (Elite, Suites) in another room (see attached) or just roped off in that big room?

 

 

 

~sent using Cruise Critic app~

 

You know what, that pic does not look familiar to me at all. The pics I got of the check in room aren't the greatest since they were taken from my phone. But basically after you get inside the building, the first part is a long line that snakes around to get thru security. After you get thru that, you go in the next room towards the left and it's a much larger room with very high ceilings and an even longer line! LOL. The line goes around the perimeter of the waiting area. From what I remember, there was a Bon Voyage section, then Elite/Suite, etc, and then one for us regular folk. The check in counters are at the far end of the room, closer to actual ship.

 

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Then after check in you go back towards the right and there is a large doorway (I saw a Go Pro attached to a stand there, perhaps for a time lapse vid?) and I think you go up the escalators where you can finally take a pic in front of the ship back drop. Then finally you go outside where they scan you for the first time and take your cruise card pic. So I didn't see that room you posted at all. Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but seemed to be just one giant room for all levels.

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seemed to be just one giant room for all levels.

Maybe it is, and the lounges they promised us are being used for something else.

Here is the Big Room, as in your pic but standing at the Right end of the check-in counter, facing away from the ship.

The smaller room (my earlier picture) is thru the doors seen in the far wall (as are the restrooms). The entrance door from Security, and the exit to escalator is just out of view to the left.

 

bayport_cruise_terminal_6.07.2013-15.jpg

 

 

~sent using Cruise Critic app~

Edited by sminfiddle
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Last port day. Boo. We were having so much fun I kinda didn't want to go to Belize bc that meant that was the last port day. But it turned out to be an awesome day!

 

Well we were lucky so far with the weather, esp considering that the week prior it was forecasted as all cloudy w thunder storms, so we were very fortunate to only really have one full rainy day. It was actually a pretty welcome change. Not so hot and humid. Still warm though. The rain was even warm. But don't forget about that sunblock! That was my mistake last cruise on St John. It was cloudy and I didn't use any SPF and guess what happened to the person who says they never get sunburned? Yup, burnt. This time it wasn't bad, got a nice tan, but again forgot about the block, so if you're fair skinned, do NOT forget, even with the cloud cover. Plus it's so much closer to the equator, the sun is much stronger.

 

So as I'm sure most know, Belize is a tender port. The cruise ships drop anchor out about 3 miles (? don't quote me on that) and you take a tender boat to the port. Now if you have an excursion booked directly thru Princess, the excursion boat will pick you up directly from the ship. A nice perk and saves a lot of time, however I had booked Goff's Caye thru Island Marketing. So we had to wait for a tender to take us to port.

 

Either way, if you have a Princess excursion or not, you have to wait in a designated lounge area and wait your turn. For example, I saw all the divers waiting for the excursion at the bar where they have the art auctions (forgot the name). If you didn't have a Princess ex booked you went to one of the MDRs and waited. These tender boats are large. But they are also slow. Also keep in mind that tendering can be a little dangerous. And weather permitting. When we were waiting to get on, our tender was actually swaying out and slamming back into the ship. The crew had to stop the line and retie the lines tighter. So pay attention and watch your step.

 

The tender takes about 25 mins to get to the port. This port area is nothing spectacular. A few bars and restaurants. Seems like Princess tenders go to dock 1, and other cruise lines have theirs. As soon as we got off the tender, the first guy I saw was from Island Marketing standing in front of this area.

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So dock 1 was the furthest from the shopping building. Our guide led us to the shopping building. There was a large line of people waiting to get checked in and pay their balance for the excursions. I didn't like how they did this bc there was confusion as to who was doing what. We got handed off to a few people and just kinda stood around for a while.

 

Finally we were led to our boat with our group. The boat was pretty small, but it was so much faster than the tender! We had to go back out past the cruise ships (which we made it there in about 7 mins) and another maybe 15-20 mins to our spot. One of our guides told us that even when the weather isn't good at the port, out on the reefs the water is much calmer and clearer (and he was right). The reason is Belize City sits at the low point. All the rain water from the rain forests drain down to BC so it looks like dirty water. Well, not dirty, just not turquoise blue. When we woke up that day we were thinking of just canceling bc it looked like zero visibility. So glad we didn't!

 

So back to the boat ride. They make everyone hold onto a life vest on the way out there. (On the way back not so much. Haha) Pro tip: sit on your life vest for cushioning. 20 mins bouncing up and down on hard fiberglass takes it toll. Thanks new friend Lisa for that idea! We passed by these little islands that are protected.

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We asked what those little huts were off the island.

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Those guys are fishermen, and they stay there for days perhaps weeks at a time so they don't go back and forth everyday. Seems pretty cool to me. We waved at them.

 

So finally we see our little spit of land in the middle of the ocean coming up. Wow. It's tiny, just like I imagined!

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Edited by whataboutport
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Maybe it is, and the lounges they promised us are being used for something else.

Here is the Big Room, as in your pic but standing at the Right end of the check-in counter, facing away from the ship.

The smaller room (my earlier picture) is thru the doors seen in the far wall (as are the restrooms). The entrance door from Security, and the exit to escalator is just out of view to the left.

 

 

 

 

~sent using Cruise Critic app~

Ah, no wonder I didn't notice the small room. I was looking the other way which was towards the direction of the line. I don't remember looking at direction at all, so I can't say for sure if that room was used or not. The way the line was set up (and bc the line was so long) if that room had been used, when the Elite pax would board, they would have to cut thru the line to get into the boarding area. Now that I think about it, I did see a few pax cutting the line just like that. But it was very few I saw, less than 5 perhaps.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. But if your Elite, I'm sure they'll have something for you!

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In case anyone's wondering, bc I totally was wondering, how Goff's Caye is pronounced, Goff's is with a hard G, and Caye is pronounced Key. I was saying Joff's Kay for the longest time.

 

Anyway, the wooden planks on the pier are not very close together. So watch for your kids and your flip flops. I could totally see someone stubbing a toe or losing a flip flop.

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This place is just so primitive and beautiful. I personally like more undeveloped places and don't care for huge resorts, so this was perfect for us. Just imagine how gorgeous the water would be in the full sun! The dark spots are all the reef.

 

And then one of our wonderful guides shimmies up a palm and starts knocking down coconuts! YEA!

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And then another guide starts hacking them open. They were selling them for $3 each.

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Now there was a family that was ahead of us, and they pretty much hogged all the coconuts. Bummed, we walked away.

 

For people who wanted to snorkel, the guides would let you know when it was time. They give you about 20-30 mins on the island while they readied the equip. They said it's enough time to have a rum punch (which is complimentary!) but only one! Before snorkeling one, after snorkeling 15. It was actually pretty strong. Not strong for me, as I usually have drinks on the rocks, but strong enough to taste it. Usually free drinks have like one drop of booze. Not here. Good job guys!

 

So time for snorkeling. Equip is incl, tho it's not the best. The fins are one size fits all, and bf said his were really hurting his toes. Our masks leaked also, but at least they gave everyone anti fog drops to put in. You are required to have a life vest with you, though you don't have to wear it. If you don't want to wear it you have to tie it to your wrist. I recommend using the vest bc the current was actually pretty strong. The vest really helped a lot. So they round up all the people do a safety demo, get on the boat, and go out to the spot. You jump off the boat to snorkel and then you follow the guide and snorkel back to the beach. The guides will tell you what to look for, certain types of fish that swam by, etc. Some parts of the water are very shallow and some are more deep about 15 ft, but you can clearly see all the way down to the bottom. The reef is GINORMOUS! Some parts are about two feet from sticking out the surface of the water. I saw brain corals the size of a Fiat. A school of blue fish by the hundreds! The hugest unis I've ever seen, the size of a volleyball. Omg I wish I could have got some to eat! Damn that Go Pro! There were several others that had theirs, I was sad. There is just no way I could describe in words how cool this was. Whenever I snorkel I always have a bit of fear in me. This was the first time I was not scared at all. We kept wandering off to look at more stuff and the guide kept telling us not to wander off too far. I have never been told that before. I'm usually a stick to their side type of person. I did not want to get out of the water. It was just so so beautiful. But we did not see any tortoise, sharks, but we did see a ray. Eventually we made it back to the beach and there were little kids who kept snorkeling around the beach area. There were small fish right up to the beach area, but no coral.

 

Oh another thing to note. The sand here and on Maya Key is rough. That's bc it's crushed coral. I talked to a few people who said they were surprised how rough the sand was, they didn't know it was crushed coral. Nature at it's best.

 

Next post: lobster time!

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Now starving, we ordered some food. My new friend Lisa who didn't snorkel and already ate, told me that chicken was $8 but lobster was only $2 more ($10 for two tails)! Hell yea! And look how bad ass this grill is.

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Prep station

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So you go into one of the small huts. One side is a couple guys selling stuff, and another guy at a table where you put in your order and pay. You can also get beers here. Local Belikin beers were 2 for $5. We'll take four. They have dark or light, and we love our dark beers. It was great. They are continuously grilling so you don't have to wait long for your food. What ever your choice, it comes with red beans and rice, corn, and a selection of sauces, and the homemade ones were pointed out to us. The sauces were HOT! Also a bit on the sweet side to me. I didn't think the lobster needed anymore more than a squeeze of lime which came with the food.

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Ahhhh......

It was while we were eating, the guide that was opening up the coconuts earlier came by and told us, hey guys I have that coconut for you. OMG he noticed how sad we were and got us one! Big props to that guy! Nothing like drinking a coconut grown on that island.

 

Some more shots of the island.

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There is also a small bathroom at the far end of the island, but other than that no other facilities.

 

It rained on the way out to Goff's Caye, and when it was time to go it started raining again. It was actually pretty fun to go out in the water when it's raining. I heard a lot of people complaining about the rain but you're going to be wet anyway so no biggie.

Edited by whataboutport
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Awesome! I wish I could stow away with you! LOL

 

I'm from So Cal also, and you know how dry it is here, so we aren't used to humidity. Even at the beach, it really doesn't get that humid here. The sunny days were high 80s with 100% humidity, so it felt a lot hotter than it really was. However, you get used to it. And it seemed like th heat didn't "hold in" all day. By late afternoon it really cooled down, but in CA, on a hot day it's hot all the way until 8 or 9pm.

 

Our forecast was mostly cloudy, thunder storms, etc, and we really only got one full day of rain, and even still it was off and on. Prepare for rain, and hopefully you will get sun.

 

If you have a compact umbrella, it'd be a good idea to bring one. Even if it doesn't rain, it's great for some portable shade.

 

I'll try to finish the cruise portion in the next few days. I'll do the NOLA part later if there is any interest. (Hint: I didn't really enjoy NOLA :eek:)

Thank you for the info. Great idea about the compact umbrella......

I'd be interested in NOLA, as we are going there in April for another cruise on a different line....

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Thank you for your post. We are doing this cruise in January, and it will be our first time sailing out of Houston, so I look forward to hearing your experiences.

 

One question: what time did you arrive at the Bayport terminal on embarkation day?

 

Also, though I suspect you'll get to this later, did you by chance do the Princess excursion to Sergeant's Caye or Water Caye in Belize and, if so, what did you think?

 

Thanks again; looking forward to hearing more about your trip.

 

Which sailing are you on? If it's the 25th, come join our roll call!

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Thank you for the info. Great idea about the compact umbrella......

I'd be interested in NOLA, as we are going there in April for another cruise on a different line....

Ok I'll do NOLA at the end for you. ;) We stayed four more days. Much too long. Two days is plenty. I'll get in detail later on.

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Ok I'll do NOLA at the end for you. ;) We stayed four more days. Much too long. Two days is plenty. I'll get in detail later on.

 

LOL...we are staying two days post cruise, but there is a huge Jazz Festival that will be going on then.......may be too crowded.........:eek:

Thank you.....I look forward to your review :)

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If anyone's interested in this excursion, just Google Island Marketing and you will see the website with all the different tours they offer. This tour was only $40pp for a whole day, w everything incl even rum punch, except for food.

 

Just a few shots as we sped back to the port.

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Once we got back to the port area, we still had some time, so we walked around and shopped a bit. The shopping area that I mentioned earlier goes all the way around the back. We bought some postcards and shotglasses. We wandered outside the gates and immediately people approached us for tours and shopping (way too late for another tour). They were very aggressive. One guy came up to us and another came by and pulled us (gently) by the arm to come with him. First guy gets mad and starts arguing, so we turned right around and went back in the port area.

 

I heard that outside the port area can be sketchy, but I thought the cruise people just wanted you to stay with their company sponsored tours, etc. I can't say for certain if it is or isn't, since we were barely outside the gates for mere minutes, but I can see how it would turn people off. Their arguing made us pretty uncomfortable so we just left.

 

I really think Belize is a port that you need to have plans and/or tour set up in advance. There is just so many things to do in Belize but it's not a let's just wing it type of place. I did enjoy myself and would love to come back sometime. There's two site of ruins we didn't do, the cave tubing (got cancelled due to flooding from the rain), other cayes, Shark Ray alley, etc. If you are PADI certified, there is also the Great Blue Hole which I think is so cool. Underwater stalagtites and sharks! Too bad I'm not. I'm sure I'd be scared anyway.

 

Last tender was 4:15 but we made it back much earlier than that. You would think by now we'd have missed it huh?

 

Next post: ship food overview

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LOL...we are staying two days post cruise, but there is a huge Jazz Festival that will be going on then.......may be too crowded.........:eek:

Thank you.....I look forward to your review :)

Oh my..... Yes it will be very crowded. I think it would be better for you not to have a car in that case. We had a car bc we stayed across the river in Marerro. Even still it was hard to find parking in certain areas and there wasn't anything special going on at that time.

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Oh my..... Yes it will be very crowded. I think it would be better for you not to have a car in that case. We had a car bc we stayed across the river in Marerro. Even still it was hard to find parking in certain areas and there wasn't anything special going on at that time.

 

We'll be staying near the French Quarter and will be right across from the streetcars. So it should be easy enough to get around, IF we can get a seat on the streetcar! Otherwise, we'll walk it...........

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So last two days to veg out. The seas were noticeably rougher going back up than on the way down. Don't know if it was due to a storm or is that normal. Not enough to get seasick, but just wanted to mention it.

 

So on to the food.

 

MDR

I mentioned earlier that I didn't enjoy the MDR food. Which is a shame bc we enjoyed many meals on the Allure. We only have two meals in the MDR. The first I already mentioned, the second was on the last night, and again everything was very salty. This time we did not have to wait for a table for two. As I suspected a lot of people were turning in early to get up early for disembarkation day. We were sat unfortunately directly next to the waiter's station so there was a lot of traffic going back and forth near us. Bf ordered the fettucine alfredo in the parmesan basket. The pasta was good; the sauce was thick and the pasta wasn't gummy or anything. The basket however was like chomping on plastic. :( I never did see the goat cheese souffle on the two days we were in there. Oh well. I don't know what else we ordered, but I guess it wasn't good or bad enough to remember.

 

Lunch in the MDR was a different story. We had lunch once in there. Fish tacos (tilapia) was very good. I usually don't even like tilapia but they did it right here. Very moist and flaky. It was one large filet in a flour tortilla served with lime cilantro sauce. We ordered two fish tacos thinking it was two on one plate. It's one but it's huge. We also had the lamb curry, which was fantastic, with basmati rice. I love lamb, I know some are not too keen on it, but I found it to be very tender, no grizzle or visible fat. And we also ordered the beef dish which was served roulette style with roasted potatoes. I thought this one was dry so we didn't finish, but we finished everything else.

 

The dinner rolls! OMG crack rolls. Crunchy on the outside, airy on the inside. The regular ones were my fave. The seeded ones seemed a bit more dense.

 

Pub lunch in Crown Grill on sea days

I thought Pub lunch was on all sea days, but it was not offered on Thur. The first PL was fantastic. The second time our fish was oily and soggy, prawns (actually they were small shrimp, but I think calling shrimp prawns might be a British thing?) were cold, scotch egg was dry. In hindsight we should have sent it back. Even if the shrimp were prepared well, we wouldn't have enjoyed them. They were just too small. But the fish and chips were so good the first time, we should have asked for a new batch.

 

Horizon Ct and Cafe Caribe

HC had the full breakfast, and Caribe had the cont breakfast. Then for dinner it was Caribe with HC being closed. We never stopped in for lunch but they did have rotating foods for lunch as well as dinner. I really enjoyed the Bavarian/German night. Sausages, pickles of all kinds! Also the Indian night was a stand out. Lots of curries, yogurt sauce, etc. I know lots of people aren't into Indian food, but I eat it a lot and this was pretty good! It's not the most appetizing looking cuisine, but if you like spices and stews, try it!

 

On the final formal night Caribe had a lot of seafood selections and the plating was fancier than normal. Basically if you've been to Wynn or Caesar's Palace buffet in Vegas that is how it was served. Single serving portions, plated nicely on small dishes. Looks nice, but hard to get stuff to fit on your big plate. I enjoyed this dinner as I love seafood. Bf is pickier when it comes to seafood so he didn't enjoy it as much as I did.

 

Trident Grill (burgers)/Prego Pizza

We ate here for lunch often. The burgers are actually pretty tasty! Sometimes if they are busy they are too fast and the cheese doesn't melt. If you have to have melted cheese, make sure you tell them that. The fries here are also very good, crisp outside, fluffy inside. I also tried a bratwurst w saurkraut. Nice pop on the casing, not too salty.

 

The pizza actually was very good, but not enough variety, so we only ate there about two times. First night we tried it I had the special which had anchovies on it. I love anchovies but they put too many on, so guess what, too salty. But the crust is very crisp, the sauce not too sweet, generous with the cheese. I wish they had more veggie pizza available. Mostly it was just pepperoni, cheese, and margherita. Ok I know margherita is a meatless pizza but I would have loved one will a bunch of veggies on it.

 

International Cafe

I actually loved the salads here and walked all the way down from Deck14 to IC often. I liked the shrimp salad with curry powder. It had turmeric, cilantro, red onion, I can see how it could be overpowering for some, esp with turmeric but I love that spice. Chicken waldorf salad, grilled cold veggies, greek salad, beet salad, all good. The sandwich selection didn't seem to change much. Ham and cheese croissant, caprese on ciabatta (I think), and some pannini. You can get any of the sandwiches pressed on the pannini press, however it wasn't ever really hot all the way through.

 

They also had desserts here. I'm not really a sweets person but I can appreciate a tiramisu every now and again. Tiramisu was a bit watery at the bottom of the cup but the flavor was ok. A little light on the coffee flavor, but not too sweet. Fruit tart was good too.

 

Oh, almost forgot, the quiches! They were really good and had different ones daily. Make sure to ask them to heat it up for you. The egg custard was very smooth and creamy. The crust wasn't bad. I try not to eat too much crust.

 

They don't have breakfast sandwiches here. It's only pastries in the AM. I still haven't tried a "cronut" yet and they have those here but one look at all the powdered sugar and I said no way.

 

We didn't try Sabatini's, Vines, or Crown Grill at night, so no comment on that.

 

Up next: pools and hot tubs

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We'll be staying near the French Quarter and will be right across from the streetcars. So it should be easy enough to get around, IF we can get a seat on the streetcar! Otherwise, we'll walk it...........

 

May I ask how much you got your hotel for? The reason we stayed across the river was the prices in FQ and Garden Dist was outrageous. We are used to rooms in Vegas (very competitively priced I know) so it was quite a shock. For the dates I looked at it was about $200/nt for a crappy chain hotel with no free wifi, no free parking, no free breakfast. Over 4 nts that's over $800 and a whole 'nother cruise! So we stayed in Marerro for about $70/nt. Free wifi, breakfast, and parking. 15 mins drive to downtown. But we had a car. I understand you guys won't. But everything is pretty close together.

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