Annoying Tracy Arm music

[Nancyquilts]

There are seven pages of an issue that happened on one ship and reported by only one poster. The simple thing would have been to send an email to Mr. Bayley and wait for a response. That is exactly what I did on July 14th, copying topcat11's first post and here is a part of the response I got: I have forwarded a copy of your email to the manager of our shipboard entertainment program. Be assured, that your and other guests’ feedback will be of great assistance in making future decisions.

 

Just as an FYI, I did not voice my opinion that I have no problem with the music, just copied the email and said it was an issue on one ship by one poster and told the results of the poll at the time of my email.

 

I'm glad you did that. Please let us know what happens. (I like Grieg, but promise not to request it.):D

[antsnanny]

Hi Host Anne,

 

I was told the same thing on several occasions, from several officers, so I'm virtually certain that if the onboard folks could have done something about the sound levels, they would have. From that I was told, they received many guest complaints, but their hands were tied by Miami management directives.

 

FWIW, on our last Eclipse cruise in April, I provided updates from the ship. During the early part of our sailing, the music loudness and content was fairly good.... loud at times, but good enough. Immediately after writing my comments on here, Celebrity must have been reading them, as the music loudness increased gradually as the 14 day sailing progressed. Towards the end of the cruise, it was very loud, and again concerning. We may be sailing on Eclipse in November or Connie in December, so we'll hope for the best.

 

As for loud music in Alaska ? I agree with those who mentioned that no music would be appreciated, in order to experience the natural beauty of everything Alaska offers. If you want music ? Great ! How about using your personal music device, and enjoy it your way. Why should everyone else be forced into what might be an unenjoyable experience ?

 

It seems to me, that Celebrity's entertainment department has a "we'll do it our way, and you better like it" mindset, and that's very disappointing. Believe me, I understand that it's all but impossible to please everyone. However, there are reasonable solutions, that should appeal to the majority of their guests. Let's hope Celebrity is listening.

 

Thank you Host Andy, I always enjoy your take on things.

[NLH Arizona]

I'm glad you did that. Please let us know what happens. (I like Grieg, but promise not to request it.):D

I'm not following through on the issue, I just notified them of the issue, so I'm sure if they feel it is a problem they will discontinue it and if they don't it will continue. Request Grieg if you like, it wouldn't be a big enough issue to me to make a big deal out of it. As I said before, there are things I like and things I dislike, but I guess I think differently than some, because I don't think a cruise line is going to only cater to my likes, when there are a few thousand other guests onboard. Edited July 15, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[antsnanny]

Isn't there two different issues getting mixed together on this thread. The regular "music is too loud throughout the ship" and separately, while transiting Tracy arm there is background music being played while most are trying enjoy the nature and tranquility of the pristine area.

 

I would most would agree that when in the narrows leading up to the glacier there is no need to have any music played on outdoor speakers while trying observe that special place.

 

Exactly!

Edited July 15, 2014 by antsnanny

[antsnanny]

Apparently it is only happened on one ship (Solstice), not one other member, in comments or reviews ,has mentioned this happening.

 

Why don't you just let Celebrity do their job at this point? They didn't ask how many people complained, did they? Why do you chime in to say no other poster complained? Celebrity will do their review, possibly look closely at the guest comment cards and whatever they deem appropriate. They don't need your comment that makes the other poster look like he is the only person who had this problem….. Did you notice that the majority of the people posted that they would much rather listen to the cracking of the glaciers rather than canned Abba music?

[NLH Arizona]

Why don't you just let Celebrity do their job at this point? They didn't ask how many people complained, did they? Why do you chime in to say no other poster complained? Celebrity will do their review, possibly look closely at the guest comment cards and whatever they deem appropriate. They don't need your comment that makes the other poster look like he is the only person who had this problem….. Did you notice that the majority of the people posted that they would much rather listen to the cracking of the glaciers rather than canned Abba music?

There is a big difference in actually experiencing an issue and commenting on an issue. The poster WAS the only poster who encountered the issue at Tracy Arm.

 

FWIW, I will post what and how I want and I would hope that you will do the same, but thank you for your criticism of what I posted.

[c-legs]

MY $0.02....

Setting aside the comments re; Celebrity's stand on loud music in public areas of their ''S'' class ( there have been a number of well attended threads on the topic over the last several months, all pointing towards a general feeling of annoyance and aggravation by guests and the frustrating indifference from Celebrity).

On the topic specifically raised in this thread= Solstice//TracyArm Fjord/ loud music on public decks: seems to me the issue goes well beyond the debate '' music ? or ''no music'' ? ''loud'' or soft'' ?

As the area of TracyArm Fjord is part of the Tongass National Forest, under the jurisdiction of USDA's Forest services, are there not very rigidly enforced regulations on noise restrictions and limits when visiting such an area as TracyArm fjord ( Or Endicott arm ) ? Seems to me the ''choice'' of having music on public areas of a visiting cruise ship is a non-starter; would it not violate some fundamental regulations well beyond ''common sense'' application ? During our 9 cruises in Alaska, every single park/fjord/bay visit featured total silence on the ship, in full respect of Nature, and the naturalist on board wouldn't have even taught of having his appropriately low voice comments compete with ANY music or any other disturbance. Even guests are , by far, in full awe and respect of what they are enjoying and experiencing.

This issue about Solstice is the first I've heard and witnessed .and its validity is totally irrelevent when framed against the much more basic and fundamental regulations and proper conducts in such places as a USDA-Forest Services -protected areas.

 

I suggest no other cruise ship ( including Celebrity's ) has EVER even considered nothing but quiet when visiting Hubbard, College Fjord,TracyArm,Glacier Park, etc,,,,.

This issue goes well beyond and away from the mere ''right'' of Celebrity to ''chose'' to have music on public decks in TracyArm fjord at 7;00am-ish...This right of choice simply is irrelevent here.,regardless of the choice of music, its volume, eetc...

 

I wonder if USDA-forest services is actually '' looking into this'' as it appears the issue has become well publicized, and not limited to 1 or 2 sailings. A ship tries that in Glacier Park and they probably get fined big times, with a ''review'' of their permit of access....

 

My opinion

 

Looking forward to our visit in Tracy Arm in Septembr on board Solstice....or maybe not....

C

[NLH Arizona]

I'm sure the humpback whales are looking for silence as well.

 

From the National Park Service, U.S. Department of Interior

　

Glacier Bay Scientific Studies

When you see a cruise ship floating majestically through the waters of Glacier Bay, it seems almost silent. But if you were a marine mammal underwater, you would hear a very different scene. Long before you could see the ship, you would hear the steady rumble of diesel-electric generators and the low-frequency drumming of its massive propellers pushing the ship forward. This cacophony would become louder until it dominated your acoustic sense, reducing your ability to hear other important sounds such as the school of fish you were hunting, or the killer whales that might be hunting you. You might not be able to tell exactly where the ship was located, to avoid getting struck by it. Calling to communicate with others would be useless with this level of noise. Eventually the dense cloud of ship noise would begin to ebb as the ship moved away, finally receding into the distance about an hour after you first started hearing it.

[antsnanny]

MY $0.02....

Setting aside the comments re; Celebrity's stand on loud music in public areas of their ''S'' class ( there have been a number of well attended threads on the topic over the last several months, all pointing towards a general feeling of annoyance and aggravation by guests and the frustrating indifference from Celebrity).

On the topic specifically raised in this thread= Solstice//TracyArm Fjord/ loud music on public decks: seems to me the issue goes well beyond the debate '' music ? or ''no music'' ? ''loud'' or soft'' ?

As the area of TracyArm Fjord is part of the Tongass National Forest, under the jurisdiction of USDA's Forest services, are there not very rigidly enforced regulations on noise restrictions and limits when visiting such an area as TracyArm fjord ( Or Endicott arm ) ? Seems to me the ''choice'' of having music on public areas of a visiting cruise ship is a non-starter; would it not violate some fundamental regulations well beyond ''common sense'' application ? During our 9 cruises in Alaska, every single park/fjord/bay visit featured total silence on the ship, in full respect of Nature, and the naturalist on board wouldn't have even taught of having his appropriately low voice comments compete with ANY music or any other disturbance. Even guests are , by far, in full awe and respect of what they are enjoying and experiencing.

This issue about Solstice is the first I've heard and witnessed .and its validity is totally irrelevent when framed against the much more basic and fundamental regulations and proper conducts in such places as a USDA-Forest Services -protected areas.

 

I suggest no other cruise ship ( including Celebrity's ) has EVER even considered nothing but quiet when visiting Hubbard, College Fjord,TracyArm,Glacier Park, etc,,,,.

This issue goes well beyond and away from the mere ''right'' of Celebrity to ''chose'' to have music on public decks in TracyArm fjord at 7;00am-ish...This right of choice simply is irrelevent here.,regardless of the choice of music, its volume, eetc...

 

I wonder if USDA-forest services is actually '' looking into this'' as it appears the issue has become well publicized, and not limited to 1 or 2 sailings. A ship tries that in Glacier Park and they probably get fined big times, with a ''review'' of their permit of access....

 

My opinion

 

Looking forward to our visit in Tracy Arm in Septembr on board Solstice....or maybe not....

C

 

 

Well said, I hope Celebrity changes their ways for your September cruise and you can enjoy Alaska as you should. It have never seen such beautiful sights in my life… I have confidence in Celebrity! Enjoy

[topcat11]

There are seven pages of an issue that happened on one ship and reported by only one poster. The simple thing would have been to send an email to Mr. Bayley and wait for a response. That is exactly what I did on July 14th, copying topcat11's first post and here is a part of the response I got: I have forwarded a copy of your email to the manager of our shipboard entertainment program. Be assured, that your and other guests’ feedback will be of great assistance in making future decisions.

 

Just as an FYI, I did not voice my opinion that I have no problem with the music, just copied the email and said it was an issue on one ship by one poster and told the results of the poll at the time of my email.

 

For the record as the OP, if you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that i was told by Celebrity corporate customer relations that it is the corporate policy for the music to be played there. I don;t know how any reasonable person could interpret that to mean one ship on one cruise. Corporate policy would apply to all ships.

[topcat11]

Thanks, I admire you. I as well would not have come on here and stirred up a hornets nest, even if I didn't like the music (unless it was the Norwegian composer that was suggested, then I would just jump off the ship). I feel that everyone is different, with different likes and dislikes, and even if I didn't like something, there were probably many that did. The only reason I sent topcat11's post to Michael Bayley (which if you notice, they were sending my email to the proper department to have the issued looked at, because they actually care about what their customers are saying) is because after seven pages of people anticipating that there will be music on their cruise and not one person saying they complained to corporate, I thought I would send it in. BTW, I didn't complain about the music, just forwarded the post. And now I get chastized because I didn't mention Norway or Venice as being an issue, when the topic of the thread was the music in Tracy Arm...go figure.

 

For the record, as the OP, I did raise the issue with corporate BEFORE starting this thread. That is where I was told it is corporate policy to play the music. That is why I sought out input from cruise critic members as people who have an interest in cruising in general and might have an informed opinion on or knowledge of this particular issue.

 

I also very clearly limited my question to Tracy Arm since I have not cruised in Norway or Venice and I choose not to comment on things I know nothing about.

[NLH Arizona]

For the record as the OP, if you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that i was told by Celebrity corporate customer relations that it is the corporate policy for the music to be played there. I don;t know how any reasonable person could interpret that to mean one ship on one cruise. Corporate policy would apply to all ships.

Other posters came on and said they did not have music, not to mention many reviews have been written and not one person has said that there was annoying music. The easiest way for a employee to stop a conversation with a customer, is to say it was a corporate policy, whether it is or isn't and that is why I sent an email to the top guy.

Edited July 16, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

For the record, as the OP, I did raise the issue with corporate BEFORE starting this thread. That is where I was told it is corporate policy to play the music. That is why I sought out input from cruise critic members as people who have an interest in cruising in general and might have an informed opinion on or knowledge of this particular issue.

 

I also very clearly limited my question to Tracy Arm since I have not cruised in Norway or Venice and I choose not to comment on things I know nothing about.

As you can see, when I sent the issue to Mr. Bayley, they said they would forward it to the proper department, so it can be looked into. I didn't get the same response that you did, that it was corporate policy.

 

No, you didn't bring up Norway or Venice, it was other posters and I was chastized for not mentioning those locations in my email to Mr. Bayley.

[topcat11]

Other posters came on and said they did not have music, not to mention many reviews have been written and not one person has said that there was annoying music. The easiest way for a employee to stop a conversation with a customers is to say it was a corporate policy, whether it is or isn't.

 

So you are suggesting two different employees on two different occasions lied to me? I hope I never have to deal with any organization you are a part of if you are that cavalier about how to treat customer concerns.

 

As well, I raised the issue to see if others shared it, whether my experience was unique, whether others had complained to Celebrity or not, since I truly did not know if I was alone or even in the minority. You must spend a lot of time reading reviews if you can say unequivocally that no one has ever complained. And further, just because you have seen no other comments on Cruise Critic does not mean no one else has complained directly to Celebrity staff. If you read the full thread, you will see that in fact others have.

 

Most important, look at the results of the poll, which at this writing are running 14.5 to 1 in favour of turning off the music during the short Tracy Arm passage. That is not at all an ambiguous finding.

 

We get it, you like music. But at this moment the only actual data (as opposed to anecdotal opinion) we have show that you are among a small minority.

[topcat11]

As you can see, when I sent the issue to Mr. Bayley, they said they would forward it to the proper department, so it can be looked into. I didn't get the same response that you did, that it was corporate policy.

 

No, you didn't bring up Norway or Venice, it was other posters and I was chastized for not mentioning those locations in my email to Mr. Bayley.

 

I can tell you exactly who in Corporate Customer relations told me it is corporate policy but I choose not to expose him to some of the pettiness of this board.

[SeagoingMom]

I'm sure the humpback whales are looking for silence as well.

 

From the National Park Service, U.S. Department of Interior

　

Glacier Bay Scientific Studies

When you see a cruise ship floating majestically through the waters of Glacier Bay, it seems almost silent. But if you were a marine mammal underwater, you would hear a very different scene. Long before you could see the ship, you would hear the steady rumble of diesel-electric generators and the low-frequency drumming of its massive propellers pushing the ship forward. This cacophony would become louder until it dominated your acoustic sense, reducing your ability to hear other important sounds such as the school of fish you were hunting, or the killer whales that might be hunting you. You might not be able to tell exactly where the ship was located, to avoid getting struck by it. Calling to communicate with others would be useless with this level of noise. Eventually the dense cloud of ship noise would begin to ebb as the ship moved away, finally receding into the distance about an hour after you first started hearing it.

Would you please provide a link to the document you quoted? Although I found the website, there are so many studies I don't know where to find the one you cited.

 

It seems that at some point in the future, cruise ships that want to enter Glacier Bay may have to hand out oars to the passengers. :rolleyes:

[topcat11]

Thanks, I admire you. I as well would not have come on here and stirred up a hornets nest, even if I didn't like the music (unless it was the Norwegian composer that was suggested, then I would just jump off the ship). I feel that everyone is different, with different likes and dislikes, and even if I didn't like something, there were probably many that did. The only reason I sent topcat11's post to Michael Bayley (which if you notice, they were sending my email to the proper department to have the issued looked at, because they actually care about what their customers are saying) is because after seven pages of people anticipating that there will be music on their cruise and not one person saying they complained to corporate, I thought I would send it in. BTW, I didn't complain about the music, just forwarded the post. And now I get chastized because I didn't mention Norway or Venice as being an issue, when the topic of the thread was the music in Tracy Arm...go figure.

 

It is not your place to send my post to anyone at Celebrity. If you are such an expert, you know Celebrity monitors these threads. Had you actually read the thread, you would also know that, in fact, a rep had taken note of the thread already AND you would have noted that I, as the OP, intend to put the matter before the CEO once the poll has ended.

[NLH Arizona]

So you are suggesting two different employees on two different occasions lied to me? I hope I never have to deal with any organization you are a part of if you are that cavalier about how to treat customer concerns.

 

As well, I raised the issue to see if others shared it, whether my experience was unique, whether others had complained to Celebrity or not, since I truly did not know if I was alone or even in the minority. You must spend a lot of time reading reviews if you can say unequivocally that no one has ever complained. And further, just because you have seen no other comments on Cruise Critic does not mean no one else has complained directly to Celebrity staff. If you read the full thread, you will see that in fact others have.

 

Most important, look at the results of the poll, which at this writing are running 14.5 to 1 in favour of turning off the music during the short Tracy Arm passage. That is not at all an ambiguous finding.

 

We get it, you like music. But at this moment the only actual data (as opposed to anecdotal opinion) we have show that you are among a small minority.

Where did I say I was a proponent of using the corporate policy cop-out, I just said that it was an easy out for employees. And one employee learns from another, that it ends a conversation with a customer very quickly.

 

I love reading reviews. Actually, I'll print them off and read them when I go out for lunch. The reviews are great reading and you can really learn a lot from them.

 

I looked at the poll, but being that those on cruise critic are such a small percentage of all of the customers that cruise with Celebrity, I would not consider it to be a true reflection of all customers. Not to mention, with their being thousands of Celebrity Cruise Critic members, it is even a small percent of those on Cruise Critic.

 

We don't now if those that like music is a small percentage of all Celebrity customers, all we know is that 116 customers don't want any music.

[topcat11]

I'm sure the humpback whales are looking for silence as well.

 

From the National Park Service, U.S. Department of Interior

　

Glacier Bay Scientific Studies

When you see a cruise ship floating majestically through the waters of Glacier Bay, it seems almost silent. But if you were a marine mammal underwater, you would hear a very different scene. Long before you could see the ship, you would hear the steady rumble of diesel-electric generators and the low-frequency drumming of its massive propellers pushing the ship forward. This cacophony would become louder until it dominated your acoustic sense, reducing your ability to hear other important sounds such as the school of fish you were hunting, or the killer whales that might be hunting you. You might not be able to tell exactly where the ship was located, to avoid getting struck by it. Calling to communicate with others would be useless with this level of noise. Eventually the dense cloud of ship noise would begin to ebb as the ship moved away, finally receding into the distance about an hour after you first started hearing it.

 

So why do you support adding to the noise pollution with canned music?

[NLH Arizona]

Would you please provide a link to the document you quoted? Although I found the website, there are so many studies I don't know where to find the one you cited.

 

It seems that at some point in the future, cruise ships that want to enter Glacier Bay may have to hand out oars to the passengers. :rolleyes:

Here you go, it is really interesting reading: http://www.nps.gov/akso/nature/science/ak_park_science/PDF/2010Vol9-2/AK-Park-Science-Vol9-I2-Glacier-Bay-Scientific-Studies.pdf

 

It is on page 13, under introduction, but please read the whole study, it is really telling.

Edited July 16, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

So why do you support adding to the noise pollution with canned music?

Well, if you think about it, the whales can't hear the music over the noise from the engines.

[topcat11]

Where did I say I was a proponent of using the corporate policy cop-out, I just said that it was an easy out for employees. And one employee learns from another, that it ends a conversation with a customer very quickly.

 

I love reading reviews. Actually, I'll print them off and read them when I go out for lunch. The reviews are great reading and you can really learn a lot from them.

 

I looked at the poll, but being that those on cruise critic are such a small percentage of all of the customers that cruise with Celebrity, I would not consider it to be a true reflection of all customers. Not to mention, with their being thousands of Celebrity Cruise Critic members, it is even a small percent of those on Cruise Critic.

 

We don't now if those that like music is a small percentage of all Celebrity customers, all we know is that 116 customers don't want any music.

 

First, let me point out that you are offering nothing but opinion to rebut these data you question.

 

Second, I guess we need to defend the entire polling industry again as I did in post #60.

 

It is your right to dismiss the entire polling industry, but someone must believe the industry works, despite the times when individual polls are wrong (and we can all cite examples). The fact is that polling continues to proliferate. And these firms come to their conclusions based on much much smaller sample sizes than this poll is providing.

 

I don't know what the situation is in the U.S., but in Canada the typical sample size for a national poll is about 1,000 people. That's out of a population of just over 35 million. That means that the industry works from a standard sample size of about 0.0000285%.

 

Let's assume one ship, one season, so approximately 53,450 passengers who might have an informed opinion on this issue. At this writing (11 a.m. EDT) we have had 134 people respond to the poll. That gives a sample size of 0.0025, two orders of magnitude (i.e. 100 times) larger than the industry standard. Even if we multiplied that number of passengers by 10 as an estimate of all the ships that make the passage, the sample size is 0.00025, still more than an order of magnitude larger than the acceptable parameters.

 

I have no doubt that most people don't care one way or the other. But my argument is that, if that is the case, then they would not care if the music were turned off, so the issue really reverts to those who do care one way or the other. And unless and until someone can show me data to the contrary, those voting to turn off the music outnumber those who want the music by more than 14 to 1.

[topcat11]

Well, if you think about it, the whales can't hear the music over the noise from the engines.

 

On what authority do you make that claim? And whales are not the only wildlife in the area. OMG

[NLH Arizona]

First, let me point out that you are offering nothing but opinion to rebut these data you question.

 

You are correct, I'm voicing my opinion, just as those that have never experienced the music in Tracy Arm are voicing theirs as well. We all have different opinions, as well as likes and dislikes.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the entire issue. At least, Mr. Bayley is now advised of the issue (via my email) and by his office forwarding it to the entertainment department the issue will either be resolve or left as it is.

Edited July 16, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[topcat11]

You are correct, I'm voicing my opinion, just as those that have never experienced the music in Tracy Arm are voicing theirs as well. We all have different opinions, as well as likes and dislikes.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the entire issue. At least, Mr. Bayley is now advised of the issue (via my email) and by his office forwarding it to the entertainment department the issue will either be resolve or left as it is.

 

I am content to disagree with you.

 

But I am decidedly not content that you took it upon yourself to try to circumvent a process I initiated to a) gather a broader sample of opinions to see if a majority of fellow cruisers agreed with me and b) if there was sufficient dissatisfaction with the corporate policy, then present the company with some actual trend data to help them determine if their policy should be changed.

 

A gentleman would have let the process go forward without appointing himself an intermediary before the data were in.