ESTA - rejection at immigration

[Pies4u]

Glad to see irony is alive & well then!

 

Priceless.

[Salacia]

Hi jimmybean.

 

It's a shame that you feel offended by that post. I suspect it was written more out of frustration than aggression.

 

It is very easy to get arrested in the UK. A simple arrest carries no consequences in our own society so the police perhaps use it more often than they should. You can easily be arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or like me being the victim of a deliberate false and malicious complaint.

The visa for me will mean a day off work, a trip to London (100 miles away) and about a total cost of $300. Not the end of the world, but considering I have no conviction, no charge, no prosecution it does seem somewhat unfair. If I don't get the visa it will cost me a lot more though as the holiday is now booked and paid for. That was my error I accept, I should have investigated the US visa requirements beforehand, but innocent people don't really consider that they will be deemed a criminal until they can prove otherwise.

 

I'm sorry to hear that is very easy to get arrested in the UK. But clearly, as you have found, a "simple arrest" does result in consequences although they might not be known at the time without the advice of counsel.

 

Clearly, there are objections to the questions asked on the USA ESTA form, but there is an alternative in applying for a Visa.

 

Just curious as to why so much ire is being directed at the ESTA form, but I've read no objections to UK residents being arrested so easily. I had no idea our legal systems worked so differently, and it's good for US citizens to keep those differences in mind when visiting the UK. Thanks, -S.

[balf]

It isn't easy to get arrested in UK though all citizens have the power of arrest as well as the police. I have seen people being handcuffed and taken away in US at the roadside:presumably they were arrested.

 

Most Brits would regard being fingerprinted on entry to US to be far more sinister than the faint chance of being arrested at home when innocent of any offence.

 

David.

[balf]

Sorry about the smiley. No idea where that came from.

 

David.

[frenchmartiniplease]

Immigration laws to enter any country are in place for a reason and 'is what it is'.

As I said earlier, my son is part of the small percentage that had to answer 'Yes' to the arrest question, despite being a law abiding citizen.

 

We were upset when we discovered he couldn't get an ESTA. The whole business of getting proof of no criminal record, taking a day off work to go to London and the expense was a huge pain. But we were more furious with the police. A lot of stuff went on that day that shocked and distressed all of us. It could have all been avoided with a few questions and a phone call.

 

Anyhoo, there is a system in place. Lots of people need a USA visa for lots of different reasons. It's worth it. It's a great country to visit. Enjoy!

[Chunky2219]

I feel a need to respond to this posting. I found it (as an American) hurtful and insulting. ............................

Hmmm..... I'm troubled as usual at this comment, but sadly, unsurprised.

 

I personally find it hurtful and insulting when I see postings from American travellers who query whether parts of Europe are safe, or else lament the fact that there is no equivalent of ADA for people with mobility problems. By the way, there is (in most countries) and it isn't just for the locals, it's for everyone. Note also that the level of deaths from gun crime is about 1-2% of the rate back at home.

 

I personally find it insulting to have my fingerprints taken every time I enter the US when the closest thing I have to a police record is two (very) minor speeding tickets in 35 years of driving.

 

I find it more than a little annoying that I have to stump up for an ESTA every 3 years or so, when US citizens can waltz into my country FOC. With no finger print checks by the way.

 

I find it outrageous that I could be extradited for something I might choose to quite innocently do in the comfort of my own country, when for years there were dozens of Irishmen lauded in the US as political refugees after bombing or shooting people to death.

 

I found it insulting in the extreme to see the US ambassador on UK TV giving us a lecture about the risks of terrorism immediately after 9/11. We'd been living with those risks on the UK mainland for 20 years, with a death toll in the thousands during the so-called "troubles".

 

Every time I've entered the US over the last 20 years I've genuinely felt like a criminal until I cleared immigration. In contrast, entering Canada is completely stress free. The last time, I'm sure the only thing they were concerned about was whether my shoe laces were tied properly (one was undone and a kind border agent pointed it out).

 

The bottom line is that the OP has a potentially big problem because the ESTA system is incredible overkill in 99.9% of cases, that no other mature nation on earth feels the need to mimic. Please don't find this thread hurtful or insulting. Find it informative, maybe illuminating.

 

 

 

.

[Olliesmum]

Hmmm..... I'm troubled as usual at this comment, but sadly, unsurprised.

 

 

 

 

 

I find it outrageous that I could be extradited for something I might choose to quite innocently do in the comfort of my own country, when for years there were dozens of Irishmen lauded in the US as political refugees after bombing or shooting people to death.

 

I found it insulting in the extreme to see the US ambassador on UK TV giving us a lecture about the risks of terrorism immediately after 9/11. We'd been living with those risks on the UK mainland for 20 years, with a death toll in the thousands during the so-called "troubles"

 

 

.

 

And where did most of the terrorists money come from..........??!!

[godfreyb]

Hmmm..... I'm troubled as usual at this comment, but sadly, unsurprised.

 

I personally find it hurtful and insulting when I see postings from American travellers who query whether parts of Europe are safe, or else lament the fact that there is no equivalent of ADA for people with mobility problems. By the way, there is (in most countries) and it isn't just for the locals, it's for everyone. Note also that the level of deaths from gun crime is about 1-2% of the rate back at home.

 

I personally find it insulting to have my fingerprints taken every time I enter the US when the closest thing I have to a police record is two (very) minor speeding tickets in 35 years of driving.

 

I find it more than a little annoying that I have to stump up for an ESTA every 3 years or so, when US citizens can waltz into my country FOC. With no finger print checks by the way.

 

I find it outrageous that I could be extradited for something I might choose to quite innocently do in the comfort of my own country, when for years there were dozens of Irishmen lauded in the US as political refugees after bombing or shooting people to death.

 

I found it insulting in the extreme to see the US ambassador on UK TV giving us a lecture about the risks of terrorism immediately after 9/11. We'd been living with those risks on the UK mainland for 20 years, with a death toll in the thousands during the so-called "troubles".

 

Every time I've entered the US over the last 20 years I've genuinely felt like a criminal until I cleared immigration. In contrast, entering Canada is completely stress free. The last time, I'm sure the only thing they were concerned about was whether my shoe laces were tied properly (one was undone and a kind border agent pointed it out).

 

The bottom line is that the OP has a potentially big problem because the ESTA system is incredible overkill in 99.9% of cases, that no other mature nation on earth feels the need to mimic. Please don't find this thread hurtful or insulting. Find it informative, maybe illuminating.

 

 

 

.

 

I fear this is getting out of hand. We all have our stories. I am a British citizen by birth and a naturalized US citizen. When with my wife (a US citizen from birth) I travel in Europe on my US passport. However, when landing at London Gatwick from France, with a same day onward flight from Heathrow to the US, I was challenged as to why I was trying to enter the UK. This went on for several minutes until the supervisor came over and waved us through. A minor inconvenience compared to a day off work, but an inconvenience none the less.

[cunardaddict]

I fear this is getting out of hand. We all have our stories. I am a British citizen by birth and a naturalized US citizen. When with my wife (a US citizen from birth) I travel in Europe on my US passport. However, when landing at London Gatwick from France, with a same day onward flight from Heathrow to the US, I was challenged as to why I was trying to enter the UK. This went on for several minutes until the supervisor came over and waved us through. A minor inconvenience compared to a day off work, but an inconvenience none the less.

 

This is only the result of British politics towards Europe. Don't take it personally - you were entering UK just like anybody else on the flight. Why didn't you stay jn the transit area?

[brigittetom]

And where did most of the terrorists money come from..........??!!

 

This is truly not the place.

[godfreyb]

This is only the result of British politics towards Europe. Don't take it personally - you were entering UK just like anybody else on the flight. Why didn't you stay jn the transit area?

 

Because I was in transit from one British Airways flight from Bordeaux which landed at London Gatwick to another British Airways flight which was took off from London Heathrow to New York. This requires clearing immigration at Gatwick (as well as an 'expensive' coach journey!)

[Underwatr]

Every time I've entered the US over the last 20 years I've genuinely felt like a criminal until I cleared immigration.

Avoid JFK/EWR and a lot of that goes away. If you must fly into New York, on Aer Lingus you clear US immigration in Ireland.

[cunardaddict]

Because I was in transit from one British Airways flight from Bordeaux which landed at London Gatwick to another British Airways flight which was took off from London Heathrow to New York. This requires clearing immigration at Gatwick (as well as an 'expensive' coach journey!)

 

So you travelled purposely to UK to intensily enjoy the M25. What exactly was your complaint?:D

[A Paladin]

Throwing in a curved ball here, shipping lines and airlines will refuse to even board a passenger not in possession of valid visa/passport/travel documents to avoid them (not the passenger) being heftily fined for trying to land an 'undesirable alien' on overseas territory.

Also be aware that as unfair as it may seem, if your passport has ever been reported lost or stolen, allow yourself additional travel time for potential questioning.

Happy travels!

Edited August 19, 2014 by A Paladin

[fantasy51]

I experienced part of this once when I wanted to travel to Australia at short notice. I have both UK and Australian citizenship, so I have both passports. However, I had lost my Australian passport. Couldn't I travel on my UK passport and just produce my Australian citizenship certificate at the other end? Eventually I received the answer that Australia would let me in on that document, but would then fine the airline for taking me, as it's not a valid document. I refused a day's casual work (£100 - and this was nearly 20 years ago) and travelled from Oxford to London to get a passport in person. They produced my old passport, still in leather travel pouch, and admitted that it should have been returned to me seeing I had reported it lost! :rolleyes:

 

Fortunately I've never been questioned over the incident. :D

[Chunky2219]

And where did most of the terrorists money come from..........??!!

 

Errr........ Noraid.

http://www.securitynewsdesk.com/2013/04/17/opinion-noraid-supporters-must-examine-their-consciences-over-ira/

 

 

 

Avoid JFK/EWR and a lot of that goes away. If you must fly into New York, on Aer Lingus you clear US immigration in Ireland.

 

I've never flown into JFK. Always preferred to enter via Atlanta or Chicago for onward travel, because JFK used to have such a poor reputation for delays and hassle at border clearance. Maybe it's better now.

 

 

.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Chunky2219

[godfreyb]

So you travelled purposely to UK to intensily enjoy the M25. What exactly was your complaint?:D

 

Read the thread.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Posted off my Police Certificate request today, cost £45.

Interesting that this only apparently covers "All Convictions, Warnings, Reprimands and Cautions recorded on UK Police Systems" according to their FAQ, but the application contains the following question "Have you ever been Arrested, Cautioned, Warned or Reprimanded or been Convicted of a criminal offence in England, Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland?".

So once again the 'arrest' issue arises even though it does not appear to be relevant. :confused:

Edited August 20, 2014 by PurpleMoonlight

[3rdGenCunarder]

Posted off my Police Certificate request today, cost £45.

Interesting that this only apparently covers "All Convictions, Warnings, Reprimands and Cautions recorded on UK Police Systems" according to their FAQ, but the application contains the following question "Have you ever been Arrested, Cautioned, Warned or Reprimanded or been Convicted of a criminal offence in England, Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland?".

So once again the 'arrest' issue arises even though it does not appear to be relevant. :confused:

 

Wow, that question covers a wide range of situations. It might be better if broken into two questions with the conviction part off on its own. But you (or I ) don't get to make up the form.

[A Paladin]

A biometric passport appears to be an 'open book'...

You may find the following website interesting reading?

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/18/global_immigration/

[Ryancoke]

What would be the correct answer if it was one's desire to be placed back on the ship?

[Salacia]

What would be the correct answer if it was one's desire to be placed back on the ship?

 

Sorry, I missed something...what was the question that required the correct answer? (Seriously):confused:

[PurpleMoonlight]

What would be the correct answer if it was one's desire to be placed back on the ship?

 

My research suggests they wouldn't put you back on the ship, they would deport you. As someone earlier in the thread stated.

 

You could also be rejected at embarkation of course and not even be allowed on in the first place.

 

So if there are any doubts regarding the validity of the ESTA it's much safer to obtain a VISA via the US Embassy.

[Ryancoke]

In most cases it should be easier to get in but that's the decision they have made. I've long found it interesting that one could have a US estate for tax purposes (I do) or be treated as a US resident for annual taxes (I am not) by virtue of owning shares in a US company, visiting a certain number of days per year, owning US real estate and/or formerly being considered a resident of the US, whether a citizen or not, yet still be denied entry or have it delayed. They appear to want the money but not the person. For example I own some Carnival shares for the OBC. If I get sick I would sell them but if I die suddenly, outside of trading hours or incapacitated, I'd owe estate tax on their whole value less a prorated exemption. I'd like to invest in more US companies but it's too risky. A heartbeat away from losing close to half of your value in estate taxes. If one was a citizen there and used the services most of one's life I could handle it. Don't they understand they're chasing away investment as well as tourists?

 

I did a US citizenship test once to see how I'd fare. I did well but on the question about whether the US economy was capitalist or socialist I knew what they wanted me to answer but it was difficult to betray my principles. Hopefully Burger King will be followed by many other tax avoiding US corporations so we (and worldwide investors) can buy their shares in safety. No estate taxes in Canada (but your own country might rob you anyway), however unrealized capital gains would be taxable upon death.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Ryancoke

[3rdGenCunarder]

In most cases it should be easier to get in but that's the decision they have made. I've long found it interesting that one could have a US estate for tax purposes (I do) or be treated as a US resident for annual taxes (I am not) by virtue of owning shares in a US company, visiting a certain number of days per year, owning US real estate and/or formerly being considered a resident of the US, whether a citizen or not, yet still be denied entry or have it delayed. They appear to want the money but not the person. For example I own some Carnival shares for the OBC. If I get sick I would sell them but if I die suddenly, outside of trading hours or incapacitated, I'd owe estate tax on their whole value less a prorated exemption. I'd like to invest in more US companies but it's too risky. A heartbeat away from losing close to half of your value in estate taxes. If one was a citizen there and used the services most of one's life I could handle it. Don't they understand they're chasing away investment as well as tourists?

 

I did a US citizenship test once to see how I'd fare. I did well but on the question about whether the US economy was capitalist or socialist I knew what they wanted me to answer but it was difficult to betray my principles. Hopefully Burger King will be followed by many other tax avoiding US corporations so we (and worldwide investors) can buy their shares in safety. No estate taxes in Canada (but your own country might rob you anyway), however unrealized capital gains would be taxable upon death.

 

Are you talking about estate tax paid to the US government? If you expect to owe Federal estate tax, I congratulate you on having so much stock!!! The Feds don't charge estate tax until your estate is worth more than $5,000,000. State thresholds vary. I live in New Jersey, where the threshold is lower, at $675,000. Other states vary, and I don't know their estate tax laws.