ESTA - rejection at immigration

[PurpleMoonlight]

That is a decision only you can make. When are you travelling? Is there time for the Embassy business?

 

Yes there is, the cruise is on 15th December but I can't do much about the visa until the middle of September as I am off on a P&O one in two weeks.

 

The worry of this has already made me physically sick. I could do without the stress of it. It was meant to be a cruise of a lifetime. :(

[capnpugwash]

Yes there is, the cruise is on 15th December but I can't do much about the visa until the middle of September as I am off on a P&O one in two weeks.

 

The worry of this has already made me physically sick. I could do without the stress of it. It was meant to be a cruise of a lifetime. :(

 

I believe that you could get the matter resolved before 2 weeks had passed if you get moving on it.

[PurpleMoonlight]

I believe that you could get the matter resolved before 2 weeks had passed if you get moving on it.

 

I had a quick look on the US Embassy web site and there is a 10 working day wait for appointment so that takes me into my holiday, and I believe I need the Police Certificate as part of the paper application. I will be applying for the Police Certificate before I go so hopefully that will have been received by the time I get back, although if they return is by recorded delivery I will have wait to apply until I get back.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Oh. Just had a look at the Police Certificate and it doesn't appear to show arrests at all.

 

http://www.acro.police.uk/Police_Certificates_FAQs.aspx#What_will_show_up_on_my_Police_Certificate?

[Victoria2]

I had a quick look on the US Embassy web site and there is a 10 working day wait for appointment so that takes me into my holiday, and I believe I need the Police Certificate as part of the paper application. I will be applying for the Police Certificate before I go so hopefully that will have been received by the time I get back, although if they return is by recorded delivery I will have wait to apply until I get back.

 

You were arrested but no charges were brought and obviously, no conviction. There is no evidence to suggest you won't be granted the visa but if you try and second guess DHS and obtain an ESTA without answering questions correctly, that could scupper any attempts to obtain a non electronic visa.

 

 

Don't lawyer up. Make the appointment, collect all the relevant documentation, go and enjoy your next holiday and sort it out with the Embassy when you get back.

[PurpleMoonlight]

You were arrested but no charges were brought and obviously, no conviction. There is no evidence to suggest you won't be granted the visa but if you try and second guess DHS and obtain an ESTA without answering questions correctly, that could scupper any attempts to obtain a non electronic visa.

 

 

Don't lawyer up. Make the appointment, collect all the relevant documentation, go and enjoy your next holiday and sort it out with the Embassy when you get back.

 

I've no intention of using a lawyer, but how could the US possibly know of an arrest if it's not recorded by the police?

[sidari]

PM ... I know of a couple of people who have been in the same situation as yourself, applied and got their ESTA granted and have been to the USA now on at least three occasions with no problems.

 

Be sure to take a copy of it with you if you decide to apply and get it.

 

Does the cruise begin from the UK and visit NYC or do you have to fly to the USA first? if you are flying you will be given a Green form to fill out on the plane with a list of questions asking about various felonies, if non apply to you then answer no. You have to hand in the form at US immigration and as someone has already pointed out the official processing entry has the right to refuse anyone entry.

 

The final decision is of course for you to decide how you will deal with it and i wish you good luck in which ever way you decide to go.

Edited August 15, 2014 by sidari

[CABINET]

I've no intention of using a lawyer, but how could the US possibly know of an arrest if it's not recorded by the police?

 

Who knows? It just isn't worth the risk. Go through the Embassy and have complete peace of mind.

 

You have plenty of time to sort this out so just forget about it until you get back from your P & O cruise.

[PurpleMoonlight]

sidari, the cruise if from Southampton and returning there too.

[Victoria2]

I've no intention of using a lawyer, but how could the US possibly know of an arrest if it's not recorded by the police?

 

 

No recorded arrest on the paperwork you have access to might not mean there isn't any other paperwork with it recorded on. Who knows!!

 

If you can truthfully answer all the ESTA questions and so obtain the ESTA, then go for it.

 

If [as the visa test seems to indicate] there is an element of doubt, don't hang around, make that Embassy appointment.

 

 

I think now, the term is, 'the ball's in your court'.

[missfrankiecat]

No recorded arrest on the paperwork you have access to might not mean there isn't any other paperwork with it recorded on. Who knows!!

 

A lawyer knows. Which is why I am sad that obtaining basic legal advice is termed 'lawyering up". All arrests are (or should be) recorded on PNC. They do not appear on an ACPO police certificate because that document is only designed to show convictions/cautions and in no way reflects the intelligence routinely obtained and stored by the police and shared with other agencies, both domestic and foreign, in appropriate circumstances (supposedly!).

You may recall that Nigella Lawson was recently refused entry to the US on the basis of press reports that she had smoked cannabis although she has no convictions nor, so far as we know, prior arrests. I believe she 'lawyered up' and the issue was swiftly resolved!

[jomf]

PM ... I know of a couple of people who have been in the same situation as yourself, applied and got their ESTA granted and have been to the USA now on at least three occasions with no problems.

 

Be sure to take a copy of it with you if you decide to apply and get it.

 

Does the cruise begin from the UK and visit NYC or do you have to fly to the USA first? if you are flying you will be given a Green form to fill out on the plane with a list of questions asking about various felonies, if non apply to you then answer no. You have to hand in the form at US immigration and as someone has already pointed out the official processing entry has the right to refuse anyone entry.

 

The final decision is of course for you to decide how you will deal with it and i wish you good luck in which ever way you decide to go.

 

You do not have the green form to fill in anymore. The ESTA is in place of that.

The only form would be a white customs form saying if you are bringing certain goods and money into the country. This form is handed over to the Customs officials not immigration.

The ESTA needs to be applied for over 72 hours before the flight.

I apply for our ESTA's a couple of months before.

Edited August 15, 2014 by jomf
sp

[PurpleMoonlight]

A 10 year old arrest because of a sadistic ex partner (who has a conviction for her actions) and I have to go through all this hassle.

 

Really doesn't seem fair .....

[capnpugwash]

A 10 year old arrest because of a sadistic ex partner (who has a conviction for her actions) and I have to go through all this hassle.

 

Really doesn't seem fair .....

 

Wake up, life isn't fair. You don't have to go through the hassle unless you want to go to the USA. Simples!

[Victoria2]

A lawyer knows. Which is why I am sad that obtaining basic legal advice is termed 'lawyering up". All arrests are (or should be) recorded on PNC. They do not appear on an ACPO police certificate because that document is only designed to show convictions/cautions and in no way reflects the intelligence routinely obtained and stored by the police and shared with other agencies, both domestic and foreign, in appropriate circumstances (supposedly!).

You may recall that Nigella Lawson was recently refused entry to the US on the basis of press reports that she had smoked cannabis although she has no convictions nor, so far as we know, prior arrests. I believe she 'lawyered up' and the issue was swiftly resolved!

 

I'm sorry if you took this as a slight. It wasn't intended to be so.

 

That case had huge media coverage and any whiff of a drug possibility is a HUGE No No in the US. I can understand her employing a lawyer.

An arrest for questioning on a case which was dismissed without charge and the history as has been explained, should be straightforward and so a lawyer is just an unnecessary expense.

 

.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Victoria2

[laktex]

This is all quite simple

 

1. DO NOT MESS with U.S. Immigration

 

2. If there is the slightest doubt (and there certainly appears doubt) then go to the US Embassy, seek advice and follow that advice implicitly - they are the ultimate source of information, prior to actual immigration in New York.

[david,Mississauga]

This is all quite simple

 

1. DO NOT MESS with U.S. Immigration

 

2. If there is the slightest doubt (and there certainly appears doubt) then go to the US Embassy, seek advice and follow that advice implicitly - they are the ultimate source of information, prior to actual immigration in New York.

 

Excellent advice. There have been several incidents recently involving Canadians being denied admission to the USA. This had nothing to do with criminal convictions. The Canadian government, in its wisdom, has been sharing information with US that have caught many Canadians by surprise.

 

Several people who are "known to the police" (you have to love that phrase :D) but not convicted of anything have been barred. Also, some people who many years ago presented themselves to hospital for mental health issues have been banned even though they are now deemed to be in good health. This has caused some controversy and there is pressure on our gov't. to stop giving so much personal information to the US. Canadians do not require a visa or ESTA - only a passport. Until recently, we didn't need even that. Thirty to forty years ago we didn't need any identification in most cases, although some sort of I.D. - not necessarily photo I.D. - was required in theory. I crossed the border several times by train and occasionally on foot (at Niagara Falls) and was rarely asked for anything.

 

Of course, I don't know if the UK gov't. is as cosy with US immigration as the Canadian gov't. is, but it would be worth looking into.

Edited August 15, 2014 by david,Mississauga

[laktex]

Excellent advice. There have been several incidents recently involving Canadians being denied admission to the USA. This had nothing to do with criminal convictions. The Canadian government, in its wisdom, has been sharing information with US that have caught many Canadians by surprise.

 

Several people who are "known to the police" (you have to love that phrase :D) but not convicted of anything have been barred. Also, some people who many years ago presented themselves to hospital for mental health issues have been banned even though they are now deemed to be in good health. This has caused some controversy and there is pressure on our gov't. to stop giving so much personal information to the US. Canadians do not require a visa or ESTA - only a passport. Until recently, we didn't need even that. Thirty to forty years ago we didn't need any identification in most cases, although some sort of I.D. - not necessarily photo I.D. - was required in theory. I crossed the border several times by train and occasionally on foot (at Niagara Falls) and was rarely asked for anything.

 

Of course, I don't know if the UK gov't. is as cosy with US immigration as the Canadian gov't. is, but it would be worth looking into.

 

My daughter (British) regularly travels in and out of Canada and has often had significant delays in crossing borders but she now has Nexus which speed things up quite a bit.

[Yoshikitty]

I've no intention of using a lawyer, but how could the US possibly know of an arrest if it's not recorded by the police?

 

You seem to seek only confirmation that all is ok.

Noone here has the decision power of an US immigration officer and noone can tell you 100%, that all is ok.

 

Several have advised you to check that with your emabassy - if you choose not to take that advise, it will be your personal risk ruining your cruise by that detail.

[PurpleMoonlight]

You seem to seek only confirmation that all is ok.

Noone here has the decision power of an US immigration officer and noone can tell you 100%, that all is ok.

 

Several have advised you to check that with your emabassy - if you choose not to take that advise, it will be your personal risk ruining your cruise by that detail.

 

Not at all.

 

Based on what has been stated I have resigned myself to applying for a visa at the Embassy rather than using ESTA. If I get rejected and have to cancel the holiday I will at least know sooner rather than later.

[Pies4u]

Excellent advice. There have been several incidents recently involving Canadians being denied admission to the USA. This had nothing to do with criminal convictions. The Canadian government, in its wisdom, has been sharing information with US that have caught many Canadians by surprise.

 

Several people who are "known to the police" (you have to love that phrase :D) but not convicted of anything have been barred. Also, some people who many years ago presented themselves to hospital for mental health issues have been banned even though they are now deemed to be in good health. This has caused some controversy and there is pressure on our gov't. to stop giving so much personal information to the US. Of course, I don't know if the UK gov't. does this, but it would be worth looking into.

 

Personally, I wouldn't bother going to a country that has such ludicrous restrictions. It is one of the reasons that both Cunard and P&O, for example, include world cruises, amongst many others extended cruises, that don't go into USA territory. A high proportion of potential customers are restricted from travelling!

 

There are hundreds of thousands of Brits with criminal convictions, many for incredibly minor offences that were committed many years ago. Why those people would want to subject themselves to scrutiny and judgement from US officials is entirely a matter for them. Many, the vast majority I would strongly suspect, choose not to or some simply ignore the rules and actually get away with it most of the time.

 

As we believe that both my wife and myself would, almost certainly, require a visa to visit the USA, despite me doing that several times prior to their bonkers policy being introduced & also having never been arrested or held in custody, we have chosen to avoid the place like the plague! It is far too much hassle & expense to bother with.

 

There are plenty of interesting places to visit without kow-towing and ingratiating yourself to the whim of bureaucrats & perpetuating such a jaundiced and unjust process. To those with convictions or arrests who want to visit a country that treats potential paying guests that way and categorises a token fine over 25 years ago for a moving vehicle or petty public order offence alongside major crimes like murder, rape, drug trafficking & fraud etc - well, good luck to you. I already know 2 people who were refused a visa, one had a drink/driving conviction 20+ years ago (fine & driving ban, no imprisonment), the other was for an unconditional discharge for unlawful picketing during the miners' strike in the 80's! Both are retired, ex professional people, one having aspired to become a local councillor & served as a Magistrate!

 

I wouldn't want to set foot in the place nor waste my time, effort or money trying to obtain a visa in order to go to the USA. Sod 'em, I'll go somewhere else where common sense, justice, reasonableness and fairness prevail.

 

By the way, it us unlawful for the Uk Gov't or Police authorities to provide the USA with criminal record data unless it is on the prescribed list of activities that are monitored by Interpol. So, there is no way that US authorities should have any information on UK citizens who have not committed a major crime and/or are suspected of major criminal activity. How much confidence do you have in that? I would have none at all, wouldn't trust either Gov't to uphold that for one minute - so it isn't worth the risk if you really want to go there. Grovel for the visa & hope you get lucky.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Pies4u

[3rdGenCunarder]

Personally, I wouldn't bother going to a country that has such ludicrous restrictions. It is one of the reasons that both Cunard and P&O, for example, include world cruises, amongst many others extended cruises, that don't go into USA territory. A high proportion of potential customers are restricted from travelling!

 

(some text deleted)

 

 

I don't know about P&O, but Cunard doesn't seem to be avoiding the US on world cruises. Both QE and QV go to New York, Fort Lauderdale, and other US ports on their world cruises. (QM2 avoids the Americas on a world cruise because she can't go through the Panama Canal, not because pax don't want to get too close to the USA.)

 

I deleted the rest of the post I'm quoting because I'm not going to deal with that. If you don't want to visit the US, that's your choice. Enjoy your other travels.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Not at all.

 

Based on what has been stated I have resigned myself to applying for a visa at the Embassy rather than using ESTA. If I get rejected and have to cancel the holiday I will at least know sooner rather than later.

 

All you can do is work through the system and hope for the best. I hope you're successful. Please come back and let us know how it works out.

[PurpleMoonlight]

I know someone that has just come back from Florida. He said that speaking to some Americans they apparently have almost a hard a job getting back into their country if they leave as we do getting in. :p

[frenchmartiniplease]

I don't believe you will have a problem getting a Visa.

 

Take all the paperwork you have showing no criminal record and information re the malicious accusation that was disproved. I think they sent paperwork to be filled in, that's probably changed.

 

In my sons case, he had an interview, the paperwork was looked at, a few questions asked, they kept his passport and sent it by secure courier with the Visa fixed inside.

 

Get in touch with the Embassy.