Biggest ship after Panama canal expansion?

[DutchCruiseFan]

What ships of Royal Caribbean are able to fit through the Panama canal after the expansion?

 

Thanks in advance!

[tahqa]

According to Wikipedia the air draft for 'New Panamax' is about 189 feet. Event though other dimensions would allow for Voyager and Freedom class for sure the air draft would preclude them. As of now it looks like it's still Radiance and Vision class for the Panama Canal.

 

Keep in mind that I got my information from Wiki, so there's no guarantee that it is correct on the air draft. :confused:

[BillB48]

. As of now it looks like it's still Radiance and Vision class for the Panama Canal.

 

Keep in mind that I got my information from Wiki, so there's no guarantee that it is correct on the air draft. :confused:

 

Wiki's info is not really off the mark... Unrestricted passage under the Bridge of the Americas is 190'... the foot difference could have been encountered from conversion from meters to feet. Passage can be granted up to 205' air draft with passage under the Bridge at Mean Low Water. As of now the Voyager/Freedom come in at 208, so with out modification to the ship or an exception granted by the Canal they won't be coming through. Even the Oasis can fit length and width wise, but a no go on the air draft. I "believe" the Anthem and Quantum can pass under the BOA with their stacks lowered.

 

I read somewhere recently where Celebrity is going to or had modified a mast on the Solstice so that it could pass under the Lion's Gate Bridge in Vancouver. If that is the case you may see the Solstice at the Canal at some point because Lion's Gate and the BOA have similar clearances.

Edited April 9, 2015 by BillB48

[Hoopster95]

Wiki's info is not really off the mark... Unrestricted passage under the Bridge of the Americas is 190'... the foot difference could have been encountered from conversion from meters to feet. Passage can be granted up to 205' air draft with passage under the Bridge at Mean Low Water. As of now the Voyager/Freedom come in at 208, so with out modification to the ship or an exception granted by the Canal they won't be coming through. Even the Oasis can fit length and width wise, but a no go on the air draft. I "believe" the Anthem and Quantum can pass under the BOA with their stacks lowered.

 

Per Capt Srecko on Quantum, he told me he wouldn't chance Voyager under the Bridge of Americas. And while Q could fit into the new locks, her width at the life boat decks will prevent her even in the new locks per Capt Srecko., so you won;t ever see Q class through the Canal.

 

Capt Claus Anderson on NOS said yes, Voyager would make it. He then told me about his first sailing of Radiance under the Skyway bridge in Tampa with a 5 foot clearance as they were quite nervous on bridge deck. I told Capt Anderson that by figuring out height limits and reading as much as I can about exceptions such as low tide, Voyager just couldn't do it be he insisted yes she could under correct circumstances... I still don't see how.

 

Capt Nordmo on Legend said he didn't know one way or another.

 

What is for sure is that the new locks will allow Voyager & Freedom to do a partial transit into Gatun Lake and then go back out to the Caribbean.

[BillB48]

Even though all of our discussions on who will fit through the Canal with the expansion project makes an interesting topic, it may be all for naught because it seems that any Royal ship at the Canal is a rarity! RCI abandoned the partial transits a few years ago and supplemented the partial transit with a stop in Panama, only to give that up as well. Seems like Celebrity is the one that offers the Canal regularly. Never the less, we can plan or at least hope!

 

Not sure why the concern for the width at the life boat decks, overhang from the waterline beam would only be a problem if it were less than 30' above the water. From what I can see that protrusion is well above 30' and it would appear that it would not contact anything when the ship is secured to the lock wall.

 

The current limits on clearance for passing under the BOA are not nearly as tight as they are for the Sunshine Skyway. In round numbers that is only 5' as the Skyway has 180' actual clearance and the air draft limit is 175'. The Canal on the hand keeps a 10' clearance even when they are permitting passage at the 205' mark. So just by the numbers the 208' with the Voyager/Freedom could make it under. I understand why the Canal has given themselves a larger buffer than what is used on the Sunshine Skyway... in Tampa Bay there is not a huge tidal range, just a little over a foot twice a day. At Balboa you still have twice a day tide, but the low water doesn't last a real long time period because of the amount of water that moves... up to 20'. Doesn't give you much of a window for maximum clearance.

 

Maybe Capt. Nordmo has the best answer... doesn't know... that is until the suits in Miami and the Canal come to an agreement:D!

[DutchCruiseFan]

So even after the expansion the Voyagers won't fit ?

[Clarea]

So even after the expansion the Voyagers won't fit ?

The Voyagers will fit in the locks, but may not fit under the Bridge of the Americas.

[BillB48]

So even after the expansion the Voyagers won't fit ?

 

Well there will be sufficient room in the new locks, but the Bridge of Americas presents a problem. On a case by case, depending on the tide, they will allow passage of ships with an air draft of 205' and the Voyager/Freedoms have 208.' There is ample tidal range at Balboa on many days of the month to accommodate the extra 3' and still provide about 8' of clearance under the Bridge if Royal asked the Canal for an exception. I honestly don't know if that is cutting it too close for their comfort zone or not, but there are some bridges that only have a 5' cushion. In the past the Canal has been lenient about granting exceptions, those exceptions are usually limited to a couple of transits and then another solution would have to be found.

[bob brown]

Seems like the Canal company is really 'missing-the-boat', so to speak....

They spend a fortune building new larger locks, but don't do anything about the bridge height restriction, thus precluding not only large cruise ships from passage, but very large container ships that might have a height problem, as well....

 

I imagine the cost of either raising/replacing the bridge, or building a vehicular tunnel would be a small fraction of the total cost of enlarging the canal....

[BillB48]

Seems like the Canal company is really 'missing-the-boat', so to speak....

They spend a fortune building new larger locks, but don't do anything about the bridge height restriction, thus precluding not only large cruise ships from passage, but very large container ships that might have a height problem, as well....

 

I imagine the cost of either raising/replacing the bridge, or building a vehicular tunnel would be a small fraction of the total cost of enlarging the canal....

 

No doubt that the limits of the Bridge of Americas could eventually cause significant problems down the road by eliminating potential customers. When the Bridge was designed in the late 50s it was probably assumed that the 201 figure was more than ample to take care of future needs, but advancements in technology always seems to come back and foil the best of plans. Compared to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge designed about 10 years earlier with only 182' navigational clearance or to the Sunshine Skyway designed in the 80s with only 175' clearance... the 201 figure doesn't seem too shortsighted.

 

Ships like the Oasis probably will be excluded if what I read here on CC is correct, that they will no longer lower their stacks as they did to get under the Great Belt Bridge. The good news is the ships the expansion was designed for can in large part scoot under the problem Bridge. The other good news is there is another bridge planned for the Pacific side to be placed a little north of the Bridge of Americas, I don't know the the planned time frame for that bridge. The last I read it was supposed to have clearance of 246' which would be the same clearance as the bridge under construction on the Atlantic entrance.

[RlrCstr]

There was a show on the History Channel last evening called Modern Marvels.

It was all about the expansion of the Canal.

Talked all about width and depth needed, but never mentioned the height issue with the bridge.

 

If it comes on again, it was worth watching.

[bob brown]

Perhaps it would have been better to construct a tunnel for the relatively short length needed to scoot under the canal, thus forever removing the height limits a bridge imposes...?

[shipshape sam]

Great info. Partial transits still could be a potential for ships. We have done 2 full transits and 1 partial transit and going in and then back out gave us the same experience as cruising the rest of the day to go back down to get to the Pacific Ocean.

 

I would love a 14/15 day Caribbean cruise that included a docking in Gatun lake and excursions then back of ship before exiting the lake. Our only partial transit required us to choose either an excursion or going back out the locks. Excursions were met at a dock close by outside the Panama Canal that same early evening.

 

It was on Island Princess. Our 2 full transits were on Celebrity Infinity.

Edited April 12, 2015 by shipshape sam

[Susie51]

Thank you for the info. Would it be cost effective to add a "hump" to the BOA so that ships with larger air draft can go under it?

[Setting sail for fun]

There was a show on the History Channel last evening called Modern Marvels.

It was all about the expansion of the Canal.

Talked all about width and depth needed, but never mentioned the height issue with the bridge.

 

If it comes on again, it was worth watching.

 

Would love to see that program. We have never done a full transit thru the canal. We did take the excursion from Panama while on Jewel OTS a few years ago and got our picture taken and received a certificate (ha!). Even that was exciting.

[BillB48]

There was a show on the History Channel last evening called Modern Marvels.

It was all about the expansion of the Canal.

Talked all about width and depth needed, but never mentioned the height issue with the bridge.

 

If it comes on again, it was worth watching.

 

I was just able to stream the whole program on History 2. Thing odd thing when I got to the Panama Canal Supersized program, it had a "key" for the play button. When I clicked it they provided a list of cable/satellite providers such as directv, TimeWarner, Brighthouse, etc and to sign in with your provider. I did and was able to watch the entire program. Interesting.

Edited April 12, 2015 by BillB48

[Susie51]

I was just able to stream the whole program on History 2. Thing odd thing when I got to the Panama Canal Supersized program, it had a "key" for the play button. When I clicked it they provided a list of cable/satellite providers such as directv, TimeWarner, Brighthouse, etc and to sign in with your provider. I did and was able to watch the entire program. Interesting.

 

 

Thanks for info

[Tony O]

Seems like the Canal company is really 'missing-the-boat', so to speak....

They spend a fortune building new larger locks, but don't do anything about the bridge height restriction, thus precluding not only large cruise ships from passage, but very large container ships that might have a height problem, as well....

 

I imagine the cost of either raising/replacing the bridge, or building a vehicular tunnel would be a small fraction of the total cost of enlarging the canal....

 

 

I don't think they miissed the boat. As far as container ships they are maxed out on high they can be as the post panamax cranes are only so high. A lot of them sail tide restricted now as they are at max depth and height to reach the next port.

Containerships will possibly be bulit longer and not higher or wider since the cranes dictate their height.

Cruise ships did not really play into the picture when it came to the expanasion of the Panama Canal as commercial vessels are their real bread and butter.

[xpcdoojk]

Seems like the Canal company is really 'missing-the-boat', so to speak....

They spend a fortune building new larger locks, but don't do anything about the bridge height restriction, thus precluding not only large cruise ships from passage, but very large container ships that might have a height problem, as well....

 

I imagine the cost of either raising/replacing the bridge, or building a vehicular tunnel would be a small fraction of the total cost of enlarging the canal....

 

The primary benefit for the larger canal is the increase of commercial traffic. Cruise ship traffic is not a significant money maker for the "Canal Company".

 

The real money maker is the fuel and time saved by big ships with commercial products to reach their markets. In other words the PC expansion has nothing to do with the cruise industry.

 

jc

Edited April 13, 2015 by xpcdoojk