Raising gratuities again!

[SteveH2508]

This is unfortunate because if Del Rio is serious about taking NCL to the next level this is something that needs to be addressed immediately.

 

Agreed. All Del Rio seems to have done under his stewardship is raise charges; reduce crew pay, perks and morale; lose reputation and goodwill - all for the bottom line.

 

If he wishes to take NCL to the 'next level', dropping it down to the bottom level is not the way to do it (or maybe his next level was downwards - everyone assumed he meant upwards?)

 

In just over a year they have managed to undo the good reputational work Sheehan had done and some.

[NLH Arizona]

Agreed. All Del Rio seems to have done under his stewardship is raise charges; reduce crew pay, perks and morale; lose reputation and goodwill - all for the bottom line.

 

If he wishes to take NCL to the 'next level', dropping it down to the bottom level is not the way to do it (or maybe his next level was downwards - everyone assumed he meant upwards?)

 

In just over a year they have managed to undo the good reputational work Sheehan had done and some.

I don't know about what you have said above. Have you read a lot of the reviews recently who are saying what a great cruise they had, will be cruising again and how the staff was professional and smiling? I guess it is all how one looks at their cruising experience. If someone goes in expecting the worse, then that is what they are going to get, because IMHO, you get what you give. Edited April 10, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sharonax3]

Thank goodness. I don't want chit chat from people providing service either on land or on a ship. I want them to do their job. I expect to pay the service charge and then IF they do something exceptional (and I have never had that happen on a mass market line) they will get a gratuity. The idea that they act like robots is refreshing. They are employees, not my friends. I suspect that you don't try to socialize with house keepers in hotels, or servers in restaurants on shore. I'm not sure why you would do it on a ship.

 

 

The gratuity has nothing to do with the service charge. It doesn't matter where the service charge goes or how it is divided. It should be mandatory and unremovable for any reason, alternatively NCL and other lines could simply raise fares by $15 - $20 per day and do away with any service charges.

 

I would hate to see anyone act like a robot, and yes I do like to speak with the crew and learn a little about them. I like when they smile and seem happy. No, they are not my friends, but they are human beings, just like you and me .From your response I can see why no one has done anything exceptional for you. But I have had crew go out of their way to be helpful and kind.

[sparks1093]

you get what you give.

 

Not in the hospitality industry, all customers should be treated the same, even the demanding ones. I sailed on the Gem before Del Rio and the crew that I passed in the hallway would always return my smile. However on CCL the crew that I passed were the first to smile and say hello, good morning, etc. I was happy with the service I received on both lines but have to say I felt a little more as a welcomed guest on CCL. I have read a lot of the reviews and for every one that says they had a great time there are those that say the opposite. The last time I looked few NCL ships in the review section has higher than 70% in satisfaction and most of them were below.

 

Yes, you can still have a good time on NCL and even receive decent service but again if Del Rio is really serious about taking NCL to the next level customer service has to be very high on the list of areas that needs immediate improvement and attention. Anyone that ignores that is condemning NCL into mediocrity.

[navybankerteacher]

 

...

 

 

The gratuity has nothing to do with the service charge. It doesn't matter where the service charge goes or how it is divided. It should be mandatory and unremovable for any reason, alternatively NCL and other lines could simply raise fares by $15 - $20 per day and do away with any service charges.

 

Before making wishes you should consider the following:

 

A) Some jurisdictions tax corporations on the basis of gross revenues - not just income after deducting expenses (such as crews' wages) -- so the fare increase to cover that change would have to be more than the current service charges.

 

B) Some countries tax salaries but not "gifts" such as gratuity income. So for the crew to keep more of their income, their salary increase would again have to be more than the current service charges.

 

Additionally, line management apparently believes that the team incentive aspect of the removable gratuity is appropriate to their business model - whatever they can do to hold down their cost of doing business and maximize their after tax income runs directly to your being able to afford to cruise.

 

There are some proposals in the US to significantly raise taxes - both state and

federal on the cruise industry - these, of course, could make things very different. If our European friends, who dislike the concept of tipping in its entirety, get their way, we may also see a European style "value added" tax applied to cruising say the fairly typical 20% --- how would you like your fare to be boosted by some $20 - $40 per day to cover the adjustments under A and B above -- and then by a further 20% to "Europeanize" the process.

 

Cruise lines are only able to offer the fares that you like because they are able to play their game in accordance with the rules currently in place.

 

Be careful of what you wish for.

[SteveH2508]

<snip>

 

There are some proposals in the US to significantly raise taxes - both state and

federal on the cruise industry - these, of course, could make things very different. If our European friends, who dislike the concept of tipping in its entirety, get their way, we may also see a European style "value added" tax applied to cruising say the fairly typical 20% --- how would you like your fare to be boosted by some $20 - $40 per day to cover the adjustments under A and B above -- and then by a further 20% to "Europeanize" the process.

 

Cruise lines are only able to offer the fares that you like because they are able to play their game in accordance with the rules currently in place.

 

Be careful of what you wish for.

 

For info - there is no VAT charged on cruise fares in Europe - it only gets charged on the onboard stuff in certain circumstances.

[mypleasure]

I don't know about what you have said above. Have you read a lot of the reviews recently who are saying what a great cruise they had, will be cruising again and how the staff was professional and smiling? I guess it is all how one looks at their cruising experience. If someone goes in expecting the worse, then that is what they are going to get, because IMHO, you get what you give.

 

 

I am really hoping the staff on the Dawn in 3 weeks are back to being happy and smiling and professional. They most certainly weren't when I sailed in January and I was very disappointed that they were nothing like the staff on my previous NCL cruises. I was quite surprised by it as it was so not what I had come to expect. My sister commented too and she didn't understand it either. Even though it was only her 4th cruise she had the experience of 3 previous sailings with NCL to compare it with.

 

I give a lot. I am the one with the permanent smile who wishes everyone good morning, good evening, how are you doing, please, thank you. I was giving it out like I always do, it is just the way I am, it is my personality, but got very little back. It was not me I know that, but I continued being my happy, undemanding self. Something was well and truly off on that trip it was not us.

 

I don't think you were there that week as far as I know so you have no experience of that particular sailing to judge by. Your judgement is based upon your experience on previous sailings on many ships just as mine is. So I agree that if you are miserable and unhappy in your life you will attract similar back but it is wrong to say that someone who didn't have a good cruise because of staff attitudes caused it themselves in every case. We still had a good time but not the great time we usually have.

 

I'm not going in to my next 2 sailings I have booked expecting the worst. I am expecting them to be just like all the others were but I cannot help feeling a little concerned having had a sub par experience recently.

[mypleasure]

I would hate to see anyone act like a robot, and yes I do like to speak with the crew and learn a little about them. I like when they smile and seem happy. No, they are not my friends, but they are human beings, just like you and me .From your response I can see why no one has done anything exceptional for you. But I have had crew go out of their way to be helpful and kind.

 

I agree, I don't want robots but I don't want their life story either. All I want is people who know how to react when I smile and greet them and to appear happy in their work and their dealings with me which is part of giving the guest a good experience on board.

[mypleasure]

Not in the hospitality industry, all customers should be treated the same, even the demanding ones. I sailed on the Gem before Del Rio and the crew that I passed in the hallway would always return my smile. However on CCL the crew that I passed were the first to smile and say hello, good morning, etc. I was happy with the service I received on both lines but have to say I felt a little more as a welcomed guest on CCL. I have read a lot of the reviews and for every one that says they had a great time there are those that say the opposite. The last time I looked few NCL ships in the review section has higher than 70% in satisfaction and most of them were below.

 

Yes, you can still have a good time on NCL and even receive decent service but again if Del Rio is really serious about taking NCL to the next level customer service has to be very high on the list of areas that needs immediate improvement and attention. Anyone that ignores that is condemning NCL into mediocrity.

 

 

Wow. You nailed it again. Customer service should be the highest priority of any business.

[NLH Arizona]

 

I don't think you were there that week as far as I know so you have no experience of that particular sailing to judge by. Your judgement is based upon your experience on previous sailings on many ships just as mine is. So I agree that if you are miserable and unhappy in your life you will attract similar back but it is wrong to say that someone who didn't have a good cruise because of staff attitudes caused it themselves in every case. We still had a good time but not the great time we usually have.

 

No, but I was on the Dawn in December and had a totally different experience. The crew was outstanding. Every time I went down the hallway, I got a big smile and a greeting for all the Cabin Stewards, not only mine. Every restaurant I went into or any public venue, the crew was awesome and even in Cagney's, the minute I sat down I was addressed by name by the server and they always had my drink in hand, before I even asked. Sorry you didn't have the same experience I had, but I guess some have different experiences than others.

 

Here is my review of my December cruise:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2289282

Edited April 10, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sparks1093]

No, but I was on the Dawn in December and had a totally different experience. The crew was outstanding. Every time I went down the hallway, I got a big smile and a greeting for all the Cabin Stewards, not only mine. Every restaurant I went into or any public venue, the crew was awesome and even in Cagney's, the minute I sat down I was addressed by name by the server and they always had my drink in hand, before I even asked. Sorry you didn't have the same experience I had, but I guess some have different experiences than others.

 

Here is my review of my December cruise:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2289282

 

You are missing the point. It's great that you were treated that way and had such a great experience but every passenger onboard should be enjoying the same treatment and experience. You can't excuse someone else's bad experience away by repeatedly trumpeting your own great experience. Well, you can, I guess, but NCL cannot. The love it rating for Celebrity is over 80% for the cruise line and NCL is under 70%. Until those numbers start significantly changing Del Rio won't realize his vision.

Edited April 10, 2016 by sparks1093

[NLH Arizona]

You are missing the point. It's great that you were treated that way and had such a great experience but every passenger onboard should be enjoying the same treatment and experience. You can't excuse someone else's bad experience away by repeatedly trumpeting your own great experience. Well, you can, I guess, but NCL cannot. The love it rating for Celebrity is over 80% for the cruise line and NCL is under 70%. Until those numbers start significantly changing Del Rio won't realize his vision.

And from what I saw on my cruise, all passengers were treated the same. Some, however, scowled back at the crew when they greeted them, which was disappointing to me.

 

If someone posts a bad experience on the same ship that I was on shortly before theirs, yes, I can post by own great experience, since it totally differs from what they experienced.

 

I've been reading current reviews on this very sight and there are more positives then negatives. Got to wonder if those with a more positive experience on their cruises, aren't the ones who don't have an issue with pretty much everything NCL is currently doing. Just a thought.

 

Hopefully my positive experience will continue to happen on my future cruises and, I hope the same for you, if you cruise NCL again. Thanks for the nice discussion, even though we will have to agree to disagree.

Edited April 10, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sparks1093]

And from what I saw on my cruise, all passengers were treated the same. Some, however, scowled back at the crew when they greeted them, which was disappointing to me.

 

If someone posts a bad experience on the same ship that I was on shortly before theirs, yes, I can post by own great experience, since it totally differs from what they experienced.

 

I've been reading current reviews on this very sight and there are more positives then negatives. Got to wonder if those with a more positive experience on their cruises, aren't the ones who don't have an issue with pretty much everything NCL is currently doing. Just a thought.

 

Of course there are more positives that negatives, I didn't say there wasn't but NCL still has to find a way to improve customer service to start eliminating the negatives if they truly want to get to the next level. And please note that I didn't say you couldn't post your great experience, I said that your great experience doesn't excuse someone else's bad experience. You either recognize that NCL has a lot of work to do or you don't.

[renata102]

I agree, I don't want robots but I don't want their life story either. All I want is people who know how to react when I smile and greet them and to appear happy in their work and their dealings with me which is part of giving the guest a good experience on board.

 

Got the robots on my GEM 10 day cruise. Never experienced "service " as bad as this cruise

[SPB in da RVA]

Of course there are more positives that negatives, I didn't say there wasn't but NCL still has to find a way to improve customer service to start eliminating the negatives if they truly want to get to the next level. And please note that I didn't say you couldn't post your great experience, I said that your great experience doesn't excuse someone else's bad experience. You either recognize that NCL has a lot of work to do or you don't.

 

 

I recognize that this is your opinion. :eek:

[SteveH2508]

What is clear from this discussion is that NCL has a problem with consistency. It is fine to say that someone had a great service experience on one ship but, there needs to be consistency between the treatment of pax on the same ship, and, just as importantly, across different ships in the fleet. That does not appear to be happening at the moment.

 

Maybe, if NCL stopped tinkering with the product/pricing and let things settle for both shoreside and shipside staff, then things might start to improve. Pax would also be happier, knowing that they are getting what they signed up for, and are not constantly having to 'game the system' or carry around printed T&Cs to ensure they get what they paid for. Just a thought.

[sparks1093]

I recognize that this is your opinion. :eek:

 

So you believe that NCL is all ready to move up on the cruise line food chain? From all that I've read Del Rio wants to move up to an area that is equal to Celebrity. As I mentioned Celebrity is at over 80% on this site and NCL is under 70%. It's going to take a lot of work to close that gap in a number of areas and key in that equation is customer service, both ashore and afloat. People on this site can wear blinders to those facts if they wish to, but as I said earlier NCL cannot afford to do that.

[mypleasure]

And from what I saw on my cruise, all passengers were treated the same. Some, however, scowled back at the crew when they greeted them, which was disappointing to me.

 

That would disappoint me too. I don't like it when I see people treat crew like that either. They are human beings and should be treated with the same respect people expect others to give them.

 

If someone posts a bad experience on the same ship that I was on shortly before theirs, yes, I can post by own great experience, since it totally differs from what they experienced.

 

Not once have I said that because I felt our experience was poor that others on a different cruise must have had the same poor experience. You had a great experience, the experience I thought we would get. I am only saying that we felt our experience on the Jan 24th sailing was not up to the experience we had had on previous sailings and on other ships in the fleet. I believe that it was something to do with management that had unsettled everyone. I think something had changed and the crew were uneasy about it and it was reflected in the standard of the service. I know there was a new Restaurant Manager the day we boarded for example. I also think the passengers, some of whom I saw behaving quite appallingly, may have also had an effect.

 

I've been reading current reviews on this very sight and there are more positives then negatives. Got to wonder if those with a more positive experience on their cruises, aren't the ones who don't have an issue with pretty much everything NCL is currently doing. Just a thought.

 

I haven't said much about any of the changes NCL has made at all. I either am unaffected by it or not concerned about it. I understand that changes are always going to happen in any business and sometimes those changes mean increased cost to the customer and all changes mean something is not exactly the same as it was.

Yes, I don't like the shortened list of wines by the glass much since it would take me 3 days or more to drink a whole bottle at 1 glass per night but I am still happy in general with the NCL product. There are definitely people on this board who only want to complain about everything NCL does good or bad just like there are those who don't think NCL ever puts a foot wrong whether they do or not. I prefer the middle ground. Praise if it is due, criticism when it isn't and no comment on things I don't care much about either way.

 

Hopefully my positive experience will continue to happen on my future cruises and, I hope the same for you, if you cruise NCL again. Thanks for the nice discussion, even though we will have to agree to disagree.

 

I am still positive and thinking that things on the customer service side will be just like they were on your cruise in December. I know Alain is back and I know him from another ship and look forward to seeing him again. I am also hoping to see Mickey again as we always have some fun together. I am not sure when she is due to return if she is returning to the Dawn. I am looking forward to a good cruise but you cannot blame me for being just a little bit anxious that it just might turn out not to be so again. If it does, I'll just not sail the Dawn again and go on other ships I have enjoyed in the past. Simples.

[NLH Arizona]

I believe that it was something to do with management that had unsettled everyone. I think something had changed and the crew were uneasy about it and it was reflected in the standard of the service.

Since the new management has been in place for a year, you would think if it was something they did, it would translate to all ships and all cruises, which doesn't seem to be the case, based on reviews and comments. Edited April 10, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[SPB in da RVA]

What is clear from this discussion is that NCL has a problem with consistency. It is fine to say that someone had a great service experience on one ship but, there needs to be consistency between the treatment of pax on the same ship, and, just as importantly, across different ships in the fleet. That does not appear to be happening at the moment.

 

Maybe, if NCL stopped tinkering with the product/pricing and let things settle for both shoreside and shipside staff, then things might start to improve. Pax would also be happier, knowing that they are getting what they signed up for, and are not constantly having to 'game the system' or carry around printed T&Cs to ensure they get what they paid for. Just a thought.

 

Now you are posting your opinions AND assumptions.

[LrgPizza]

The very first NCL cruise I took (2009) was the only one I've ever been on that had crappy customer service. It was terrible across the board. Since then, it has always been great. Our most recent cruise (the only one I've taken under FDR) was by far the best customer service I've had, so maybe things are moving in the right direction now.

[sparks1093]

Now you are posting your opinions AND assumptions.

 

This is an internet forum, we're allowed to do that.

[sparks1093]

The very first NCL cruise I took (2009) was the only one I've ever been on that had crappy customer service. It was terrible across the board. Since then, it has always been great. Our most recent cruise (the only one I've taken under FDR) was by far the best customer service I've had, so maybe things are moving in the right direction now.

 

Now they just need to make sure every customer is treated the same way.

[SteveH2508]

Now they just need to make sure every customer is treated the same way.

 

Well, not badly, hopefully.:rolleyes:

[LrgPizza]

Now they just need to make sure every customer is treated the same way.

 

Of course. Despite how much they strive, I've yet to meet a company of any kind in my entire life that treats everyone exactly the same every single time they are served. If NCL accomplishes this, they should go down in history and be a case study for all corporations world wide for all of eternity.