Any lawyers on here?

[cjcruises]

It is a transaction, but I don't think it is a purchase. I view it as a deposit.

 

In any case....I had more sympathy until I just read the other thread about Canadian exchange rates in this forum....and people are asking how much they can put in the OBC account, then asking how to cash it out from the casino. That changed my feelings of sympathy toward a fella wanting a slight advantage to one of disdain for people being greedy. Those people are trying to use the cruise line to cash out a financial gain, not just a small advantage to use onboard.

 

Not all of us are looking to cash out. I hadn't planned to. :) I don't go to the casino and had no intention of stopping by there with the hopes of paying a fee to get my own money.

[CanadianMommyof2]

I had a similar problem. We left on our cruise Jan 23. We left Vancouver Canada Jan 21 and didn't find out until we were onboard that we were missing our OBC. This happened to many Canadians on this sailing and many were upset. On Jan 14 Norwegian sent me our amenity confirmations showing everyone in the staterooms OBC but when get onboard we find out Norwegian has cancelled it. That's like buying a car and when you go to pick it up the car dealership says they don't like the deal anymore and cancels it. I think it's wrong.

 

That happened to my brother as well on our Jan. 23rd sailing. We printed all of our amenity confirmations, but it didn't matter...they said that there was nothing they could do and that my brother would have to deal with it when he returned home.

[cjcruises]

Well, if NCL wants to be pro-active, they should change that policy or raise the rate for Canadians.

 

They have done both. The exchange rate has changed fairly regularly. They have also changed the policy, limiting OBC pre purchases to $1000 per reservation. I have no quarrel on either front.

 

The issue at hand is whether or not I completed a transaction with NCL, only to have them decide at a later date to reneg on that contract.

It is certainly not a deposit. I paid the full amount of the OBC. My credit card has been charged, and the bill paid. Transaction complete. I purchased and paid for something and now NCL may have decided that they don't like the terms upon which both parties agreed and may be refunding my money, after having it in their pocket for several weeks.

[CanadianMommyof2]

I'm looking at my Vacation Summary and it still says I have 15 X$100 OBC certificates - where would I find the little disclaimer for only $1000????

 

Our vacation summary showed all OBC certificates before we left too but once on the ship they were not applied to the stateroom account.

[cjcruises]

That happened to my brother as well on our Jan. 23rd sailing. We printed all of our amenity confirmations, but it didn't matter...they said that there was nothing they could do and that my brother would have to deal with it when he returned home.

 

It certainly leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. Again, if the policy changed Jan 21, why have I not yet been notified by NCL? I only found out because we had called about another matter and happened to ask a question that caused to informstion to be divulged. It's a great way to lose their Canadian client base.

[abe3]

OBC is not a contract.

[sparks1093]

It is a transaction, but I don't think it is a purchase. I view it as a deposit.

 

In any case....I had more sympathy until I just read the other thread about Canadian exchange rates in this forum....and people are asking how much they can put in the OBC account, then asking how to cash it out from the casino. That changed my feelings of sympathy toward a fella wanting a slight advantage to one of disdain for people being greedy. Those people are trying to use the cruise line to cash out a financial gain, not just a small advantage to use onboard.

 

Okay, it's a completed transaction. It's completed. Offer/acceptance. Over/done. Yes, people are going to do what is in their best interest, that's people being people.

[NLH Arizona]

Not all of us are looking to cash out. I hadn't planned to. :) I don't go to the casino and had no intention of stopping by there with the hopes of paying a fee to get my own money.

You are right, not everyone is looking to cash out, but those that were just looking to make some bucks have spoiled it for everyone. Just like in years gone by, one could charge cash for the casino, so we didn't have to travel with a lot of cash, on their account without a 3% charge (or 5% on Celebrity), but folks were charging cash to their account and not using it in the casino, so that ended.

[cjcruises]

In this instance though, if is the issue is people buying OBC and cashing it out at the casino for a small fee, would t it make sense it's to stop people from casing out in the casino? Why prevent the purchase of OBC.

I guess I wonder what's next... Who'll they limit my pre purchase of spa treatments, because they are at a preferred rate until I board? Will they stop allowing the prepayment of DSC?

The more OBC I have, the more I'll spend onboard. If I can't afford to purchase the OBC, I'll spend my money somewhere other than the ship.

[MsTabbyKats]

They have done both. The exchange rate has changed fairly regularly. They have also changed the policy, limiting OBC pre purchases to $1000 per reservation. I have no quarrel on either front.

 

The issue at hand is whether or not I completed a transaction with NCL, only to have them decide at a later date to reneg on that contract.

It is certainly not a deposit. I paid the full amount of the OBC. My credit card has been charged, and the bill paid. Transaction complete. I purchased and paid for something and now NCL may have decided that they don't like the terms upon which both parties agreed and may be refunding my money, after having it in their pocket for several weeks.

 

I meant for "cashing out" in the casino. It's currently 3% for everyone.

[CanadianMommyof2]

In this instance though, if is the issue is people buying OBC and cashing it out at the casino for a small fee, would t it make sense it's to stop people from casing out in the casino? Why prevent the purchase of OBC.

I guess I wonder what's next... Who'll they limit my pre purchase of spa treatments, because they are at a preferred rate until I board? Will they stop allowing the prepayment of DSC?

The more OBC I have, the more I'll spend onboard. If I can't afford to purchase the OBC, I'll spend my money somewhere other than the ship.

 

I agree, they should have just removed the option of cashing out OBC in the casino, or limiting the amount of OBC that can be cashed out. In my mind they shouldn't prevent people from purchasing OBC, what if they were planning on using it in the spa or to book shore excursions? I would much rather purchase OBC so that I can decide which shore excursions I would like to do while on the ship than prebooking them because some times plans change. I would not be interested in paying a higher exchange once on the ship however, so I just wouldn't book any. Same goes for the spa.

[Kingofwylietx]

You are right, not everyone is looking to cash out, but those that were just looking to make some bucks have spoiled it for everyone..

 

Exactly! It was a good deal. Heck, if I could do that, I would put $50K in OBC, pull it out at the casino and have a free cruise. :D 20% gain in a year is awesome!

 

In this instance though, if is the issue is people buying OBC and cashing it out at the casino for a small fee, would t it make sense it's to stop people from casing out in the casino? Why prevent the purchase of OBC. .

 

I think this is an accounting issue. OBC is not the same as goods and services. It is currency. You can buy anything you want right now for your cruise at today's price.

 

However, NCL agrees to hold some money for you in an account under your name. Do they get to use that money until you need it?

 

To determine fairness, you must know where the money goes. The money is not revenue until you purchase something with the OBC. So, we know it isn't revenue. If they use your money at the prevailing value, then I expect you should have the current value of it when you use it. If your money is in something like an escrow, then you should only have the converted value of cash at the time it was deposited.

 

So, if NCL gets to use it once it is deposited, I agree with you. If they don't have use of the money (as it is earmarked only for you), then I disagree with your stance.

 

I don't know what they do with it, if they can use it, or if they don't touch it.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Kingofwylietx

[coaster]

This seems no different than advertising a certain venue as free and then charging for it later even for those with an existing booking. Not good press material, but it seems to be the consistent with what appears to be desperate attempts to generate more revenue regardless of consumer backlash.

[sparks1093]

Exactly! It was a good deal. Heck, if I could do that, I would put $50K in OBC, pull it out at the casino and have a free cruise. :D 20% gain in a year is awesome!

 

 

 

I think this is an accounting issue. OBC is not the same as goods and services. It is currency. You can buy anything you want right now for your cruise at today's price.

 

However, NCL agrees to hold some money for you in an account under your name. Do they get to use that money until you need it?

 

To determine fairness, you must know where the money goes. The money is not revenue until you purchase something with the OBC. So, we know it isn't revenue. If they use your money at the prevailing value, then I expect you should have the current value of it when you use it. If your money is in something like an escrow, then you should only have the converted value of cash at the time it was deposited.

 

So, if NCL gets to use it once it is deposited, I agree with you. If they don't have use of the money (as it is earmarked only for you), then I disagree with your stance.

 

I don't know what they do with it, if they can use it, or if they don't touch it.

 

It is my understanding that while it is in their hands they are free to do whatever they want with it. I would expect at a minimum they put it in the highest yield account they can find.

[RDC1]

I'm going to make an assumption that the reason for the change in policy is in large part due to fluctuations in exchange rates. By limiting the amount of OBC you can purchase they limit the risk to the company. No as for contract with OBC...not sure if there is a "rule" that says they continue to owe you that money as its like cash sitting in the bank. As long as they give you the money back then they are within their rights. Where you might have an "argument" if is you paid in another currency and when you got your refund you received a different amount back...again not sure about this so take it with a grain of salt. Anyway I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do and hope you enjoy your cruise. I'm very "jelly" of the 22 days.

 

I suspect that the limit is likely because people were taking advantage of the offered exchange rates to buy OBC that they had no intention of spending on board, cashing out the excess to profit on the offered rate, since they could cash it out in US dollars.

[RDC1]

I agree, they should have just removed the option of cashing out OBC in the casino, or limiting the amount of OBC that can be cashed out. In my mind they shouldn't prevent people from purchasing OBC, what if they were planning on using it in the spa or to book shore excursions? I would much rather purchase OBC so that I can decide which shore excursions I would like to do while on the ship than prebooking them because some times plans change. I would not be interested in paying a higher exchange once on the ship however, so I just wouldn't book any. Same goes for the spa.

 

One way they could handled it would be to prevent cashing out any OBC at the casino and then refund any unspent in Canadian dollars are the same exchange rate it was purchased under. However, to do that would require that their computer systems be able to handle the limits. I suspect that their systems are not set up to do that. Thus the move to limit the pre-purchase to an amount more in line with what might be spent on board.

[casofilia]

One way they could handled it would be to prevent cashing out any OBC at the casino and then refund any unspent in Canadian dollars are the same exchange rate it was purchased under. However, to do that would require that their computer systems be able to handle the limits. I suspect that their systems are not set up to do that. Thus the move to limit the pre-purchase to an amount more in line with what might be spent on board.

 

I would suspect that anyone would agree with these if NCL wanted to limit their loss provided they did it after the introduction to the limit. They should not have "grandfathered" it.

 

Mike

[MOcruiserman]

Any attorney will tell you that lawsuits based on a breach of contract make sense only if you can prove damages. Even if you win such a lawsuit your legal expenses may exceed any damages you're awarded so your win means nothing.

[bfamily4]

for those canadians who had this happen to them, did they automatically refund your credit card? We too bought obc in the excess of $1000 in the hopes of using them for excursions, specialty dining, drinks, bingo, etc. although it's disappointing that there is a limit in the obc that you can purchase, we have no problems getting back the extra $$ refunded in the credit card. As long as they refund our money back. We don't want to have to call ncl and be on hold and talk to multiple people. Hope it's just as easy as putting the credit back where it belongs.

[mattio]

Even if you want to change the name to allow someone else to travel, any time after final payment, it is considered a cancellation.(other lines may have this also)

 

 

This isn't always true. I changed a passenger a week before a cruise with no penalty.

[Moby0215]

Not saying they should but if they have sold something then they should honor that sale, even if they've made a mistake. This would be like going into a market and paying for something and on your way out the door having the manager come up and say, sorry, the price has just gone up for those items so I'm going to take them back and give you a refund.

 

 

Happens all the time with online orders. A price was entered wrong, vendor notices it after some have already been purchased but not shipped, vendor cancels order and refunds money. This is very standard practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sfaaa]

 

So, if NCL gets to use it once it is deposited, I agree with you. If they don't have use of the money (as it is earmarked only for you), then I disagree with your stance.

 

I don't know what they do with it, if they can use it, or if they don't touch it.

 

Since the money is not placed in a trust acct, no reason why NCL cannot use it. As to whether NCL is in the right to retroactively apply the new game rules, doesn't really matter. it did and said bite me if you don't like it.

[casofilia]

Happens all the time with online orders. A price was entered wrong, vendor notices it after some have already been purchased but not shipped, vendor cancels order and refunds money. This is very standard practice.

 

That does not make it right; ethical or good business practice.

 

Mike

[Moby0215]

That does not make it right; ethical or good business practice.

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

In the scenario I mentioned it is absolutely right. A business is not gonna suffer a monetary loss because someone wrongly entered the price of an item into a database. You would be hard pressed to find any business that would honor a price error of any significance especially if it was abused on a grand scale.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 3, 2016 by Moby0215

[casofilia]

In the scenario I mentioned it is absolutely right. A business is not gonna suffer a monetary loss because someone wrongly entered the price of an item into a database. You would be hard pressed to find any business that would honor a price error of any significance especially if it was abused on a grand scale.

 

But what is happening here with NCL is NOT a "price error" it is willing buyer/willing seller situation. Both parties came to an agreement and one party has unilaterally reneged on that agreement. Put changes into place from 15th (?) January and no one would complain but do not "grandfather" it.

 

Mike