Drink tax

[insidecabin]

In Europe there should be no tax(VAT) on drinks that are part of a pre purchased package in port or not.

 

NCL used to charge(Jan 2015) it but I understand they fixed their POS systems since then.

 

there is an added complication as each EU country has implemented the rules differently for charged drinks.

[angie198]

Hi everyone I am currently sailing on the NCL Star joined the ship on 12/10/2016 in Barcelona with the Pre paid UBP.. in port I went to the bar and was told there was a 10% Spanish vat charge because we where in port. Then we set sail and as the night went on the taxes remained and the bar staff seemed confused at this, I went to customer services the next morning to be told this tax will be charged for the duration of the whole cruise, this is now day 6 and I have to say the worst cruise I have ever been on. Everyone is enraged by this and the staff do not seem happy either, it has put a real dampener on my holiday, I cruised last Nov 2015 with NCL epic on similar itinerary and NO taxes were charged. Can anyone advice on this please??

[KeithJenner]

What is your exact itinerary?

 

As the Star is in transit, it wouldn't surprise if there are some issues like this, as historically NCL seem to take a while to get things like this sorted.

 

Depending on the itinerary of the Epic, tax outside of ports may not have been an issue if it stopped at a non EU VAT port.

 

As stated above, they don't charge the tax now on the Epic Western Med round trip for those with a prepaid UBP, but that hasn't always been the case. It has always been a point of great confusion.

[angie198]

The itinerary for this cruise is Barcelona, 2 days at sea, Malta, Messina, day at sea, Athens, Crete,Santorini, Naples Rome

[ighten]

I think it also depends on where you book just to confuse it..

 

If you booked through the UK site and have a UBP they dont charge the tax as an extra wherever you are. Basically Uk law stops them selling a free perk that isnt free.

 

The downside is they probably get it back by charging you more in the first place :rolleyes:

Edited October 17, 2016 by ighten

[hawkeyetlse]

It doesn't matter where you book from. We're not talking about a tax paid at the time of booking, or at any other time before the cruise. We're talking about tax collected on board each time you order a drink under the UBP.

 

For all itineraries (again, for all passengers, regardless of how/when/where they booked), onboard purchases may be subject to local tax while the ship is under the jurisdiction of a local tax authority. That is the only generally true statement that can be made for all sailings, and so that is all you will ever get out of NCL if you ask them. Of course, the statement is so vague that it's completely useless for anyone who wants/needs to know what they are going to have to pay when they actually cruise.

 

I think the issue of when and where tax is charged for onboard purchases is pretty clear by now, for US and European itineraries. But there seems to be a lingering question about whether or not ordering free drinks under the UBP is properly treated as a full-price purchase for tax purposes. Those of us who cruise regularly in Europe know that this has changed a couple of times over the last few years. Whether this corresponds to actual changes in the tax rules, or changes(/mistakes) in NCL's application of the tax rules, is anyone's guess (and I expect that anyone will be here shortly to share his guesswork with us… :rolleyes:) But it's not especially surprising to me to hear that the tax is back on the Star during its one-off trip through the Mediterranean.

 

I would be disappointed if I were on this sailing, too. But I have also been pleasantly surprised in the past when the change went unexpectedly in the opposite direction, and no tax was collected on cruises where I fully expected to have to pay it. Win some, lose some. I know this will be cold comfort for angie198, especially as it appears that they are unhappy with their cruise for other reasons besides the VAT.

Edited October 17, 2016 by hawkeyetlse

[KeithJenner]

I think it also depends on where you book just to confuse it..

 

If you booked through the UK site and have a UBP they dont charge the tax as an extra wherever you are. Basically Uk law stops them selling a free perk that isnt free.

 

The downside is they probably get it back by charging you more in the first place :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I believe that you are thinking of the 18% gratuity.

[ighten]

Your probably right Keith - I must have been thinking of the grats..

 

But I'm still equally confused now.. We always board the Epic in Barcelona sit and have drinks in port before departure and have visited other Spanish destinations on her and probably returned and had a drink on the deck before departure.. Never had to pay a seperate tax amount.. Just sign as usual and have nothing on the end of cruise invoice other than oddments for extra food/coffee & shopping.

 

You do notice the VAT amount change on the receipt - but its still been a zero bill at the end of the cruise

 

Is this because it never leaves the EU

Edited October 17, 2016 by ighten

[Jldevlin]

On the spirit last month out of Barcelona we were charged the tax while in port there and each bartender warned us each time that there was a tax until we left port...there were no other ports that we were charged in.....60 cents or so added onto a beer

[hawkeyetlse]

On the spirit last month out of Barcelona we were charged the tax while in port there and each bartender warned us each time that there was a tax until we left port...there were no other ports that we were charged in.....60 cents or so added onto a beer

Just to be clear, you also paid full price for the beer, right? No UBP?

[Jldevlin]

Just to be clear, you also paid full price for the beer, right? No UBP?

 

no we had the UBP ... made fine use of it as a matter of fact ...the waiters were clear about the tax and reminded us each time we ordered and we had to sign each time only while we were in port ...the only reason it is clear in my mind is because I was happy to not have to sign after sail away ....

[hawkeyetlse]

Thanks for the report. So it's not just on the Star. Can you confirm that the tax actually appeared on your account (not just on the ticket) and you paid it at the end of the cruise?

 

If so, it's another U-turn in NCL's treatment of UBP orders on EU cruises. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water…

[deniseatnycs]

We are on the Malta and Greek Star cruise at the moment. We are being taxed 10 % on every drink we get on the promotion free beverage package. There is a lot of bad feelings on board and many people will never sail NCL again.

The official line is that because we sailed from Barcelona and all ports visited are in Europe then a Spanish 10% tax applies to every purchase or non purchase as the case may be. Needless to say the shops are not doing much trade either.

 

Denise

[KeithJenner]

We are on the Malta and Greek Star cruise at the moment. We are being taxed 10 % on every drink we get on the promotion free beverage package. There is a lot of bad feelings on board and many people will never sail NCL again.

 

The official line is that because we sailed from Barcelona and all ports visited are in Europe then a Spanish 10% tax applies to every purchase or non purchase as the case may be. Needless to say the shops are not doing much trade either.

 

 

 

Denise

 

 

 

That official line is correct (to an extent). If a cruise doesn't leave the EU VAT area then tax must be charged on all applicable onboard purchases for the entire cruise.

 

This is not an NCL thing, and it applies to a number of itineraries. For example the Epic round trip from Barcelona (which it does all Summer) and one of the Jade itineraries.

 

The only point of contention is regarding the tax on items covered by things like the beverage package. Tax should certainly be charged on drinks purchased outside of the package. There is nothing that NCL can do about that. However, they recently haven't been charging the tax on drinks consumed using a prepaid (or promo) drinks package. Nobody on here knows enough about the details to say exactly what the situation is, but certainly they haven't been charging it lately.

 

The post earlier suggests that maybe they are now charging again on the Epic, but it isn't clear. Perhaps they have been made to change their policy by the authorities, or perhaps they have made a mistake. I certainly don't know which.

 

The anger at NCL may be warranted, but it's difficult to say for sure.

[hawkeyetlse]

Sorry to hear that. I would be annoyed, too, but NCL is a victim of the tax rules as much as the passengers are. If the ship could avoid collecting this tax, they would, because collecting it doesn't make them any money. On the contrary, as you noted, it discourages spending and customers blame them for it.

 

It does no good to stop sailing NCL. Other lines are collecting tax, too. In fact, Carnival apparently found that the issue of tax on "free" beverages was so frustrating that they stopped offering beverage packages altogether on their EU-only sailings this month. See this thread and this one on the Carnival board and this page on their website. "Cheers" to Carnival for being the only line I know of to provide such detailed information about VAT, and even a statement from John Heald. Not that their customers are any happier about it.

 

What people need to do is choose their itineraries more wisely if they want to avoid EU VAT.

Edited October 19, 2016 by hawkeyetlse

[welshman71]

I was on the Star as well and had the free UBP and was charged the 10% tax on every drink. The reason everyone was so upset was not being notified prior to the cruise or even when it started. Bartenders were even confused telling customers the tax charges would stop once we left Spanish waters. There were small print letters posted at the bars explaining the tax but I do not think this is an adequate way to notify everyone. They could have avoided having a lot of unhappy passengers by simply sending out an email prior to the cruise.

 

I can't really complain about only paying 10% of the cost of each drink since the UBP was free but being surprised by it left a sour taste in my mouth as it did others especially those who budget their money and didn't take this added cost into account. Speciality dining was also subject to the 10% and any shop purchase subject to 21% tax. The shops were a ghost town and there was never anyone in the photo gallery which I've never seen before.

 

Guest services was inundated with complaints and service charge cancellations. Felt bad for the crew who had to deal with the hostility as they were upset themselves as anything they purchased was also subject to the tax.

 

 

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[Demonyte]

I was on the Star as well and had the free UBP and was charged the 10% tax on every drink. The reason everyone was so upset was not being notified prior to the cruise or even when it started.

 

Taxes not being included in UBP is clearly stated in UBP terms, and has been since the beginning.

[hawkeyetlse]

Let's be honest NCL could send a singing telegram to each person's home three months before sailing to inform them in person about the tax, that would just give people three months to come on here and complain about it.

[wdsted]

NCL charges these drink taxes...other lines choose to "eat" the cost so they dont make a valued passenger feel nickle and dimed. NCL is starting to lose its luster but passengers can make own decisions as to where and who to give their money to.

 

 

Not true. Many other cruise lines pass on these taxes.

 

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[insidecabin]

There should be NO VAT charged on the drinks included in a pre purchased or included beverage package,

 

That's not the way VAT is supposed to work.

 

I think it is the implementation by NCL that results in the charge.

 

 

I will have to did out the legislation again to see if there is something special about how this particular VAT directive was worded

[welshman71]

Let's be honest NCL could send a singing telegram to each person's home three months before sailing to inform them in person about the tax, that would just give people three months to come on here and complain about it.

 

 

True but there would have been a lot less people upset onboard had they known about it prior to the cruise and had been prepared for the additional cost.

 

 

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[hawkeyetlse]

As I mentioned above, Carnival is also struggling with this issue currently (their solution is to stop offering beverage packages altogether in these sailings, which obviously is not an option for NCL). I am certain that the cruise lines know the EU legislation better than anyone here, not only because they have much more at stake than any individual passenger does, but also because the EU tax authorities actually come and tell them what the rules are and how they have to implement them. Businesses only collect tax from their customers if they are forced to.

[insidecabin]

You should not be charging VAT on something that is included, that's the drinks if you have a package.

 

 

Ncl were charging and refunding but not refunding tax they should not charge in the first place then there is nothing to VAT.

 

As I said will have to have another look at the directive but I don't recall any way they should be charging VAT on pre-purchased or free services and consumption that became part of the cruise fare.

[KeithJenner]

NCL would only have been able to send out information prior to the cruise if they were aware themselves.

 

This seems to be an ongoing area of confusion, and I'm not convinced that NCL have got to grips with it.

 

That isn't an excuse of course. A company like NCL should know these things and implement them correctly. All I am saying is that it isn't necessarily something that could have been eased by notifying people beforehand. It wouldn't have surprised me if NCL themselves didn't even know what they were doing until very late on.

[KeithJenner]

You should not be charging VAT on something that is included, that's the drinks if you have a package.

 

 

 

 

 

Ncl were charging and refunding but not refunding tax they should not charge in the first place then there is nothing to VAT.

 

 

 

As I said will have to have another look at the directive but I don't recall any way they should be charging VAT on pre-purchased or free services and consumption that became part of the cruise fare.

 

 

 

What the directive says probably becomes irrelevant in the hypothetical situation where a customs official in Barcelona is saying that it has to be charged.

 

Again, I'm not saying what has or hasn't happened, but as Hawkeyetise says, NCL won't charge the tax if they can avoid it.