Another passenger overboard today?

[hackwid]

Just got back off the Jewel, and was on the ship in Nassau when they kept calling over the loudspeakers for Jill Begora to report to guest relations. Never knew she was missing. Wonder if the complete search of the ship was really complete, as no passengers that I know of knew they were searching.

 

Also, the night she went missing, we had 18 foot seas and effective wind speeds approaching 70 mph. If you were on an upper deck, it would have been easy to fall down or over, even with the railings. I saw several people blown against the walls or railings by extremely high gusts that night. With the high seas, the ship would do an incredible roll every once in a while.

[tomc]

I've been working on a theory that the last night out is "Jumper Night." From the reports I've seen, most disappearances seem to be on the last night. (Seem to be; this is my own unscientific survey.) While in-cruise falls could be explained by people under the influence doing stupid things on their balconies, end-of-cruise falls tend to be by people who have been away from bad onland stuff. I stopped one on my last cruise.

[cujosmom]

ConnCruise - Unless there is another instance of a guy falling off a Carnival Ship that I'm not aware of, I think the guy you're referring to was actually on a Carnival cruise out of Galveston not New Orleans....not that it makes that much difference. I believe he was spotted by someone either on one of the oil platforms or a boat near one of the oil platforms. And, yes, he'd been in the water at least 12 hours when finally rescued. The guy I'm referring to was travelling with a couple of buddies who had been drinking and he was last seen around 2:00 AM but it was sometime the next day before his "friends" realized he was missing!! He couldn't remember what happened, just that he ended up in the water. I guess that'll sober you up real quick.

[threeofus]

Wow...we have always let our daughter come and go on her own thinking that she would be safe.....after all...you can't get lost on a ship and there are so many people around. That was until recently.....Now we are frightened. The worst part is that these "mysteries" are often unsolved. The cruise ships don't seem to cooperate well---

 

I like the idea of video cameras recording the rails 24/7. If they are doing that then what is the question. If they aren't then they should. It's really as simple as that.

[beachchick]

I understand your point, but, to me, there have been many more "unsolved mysteries" happen to people while cruising in the last 2 years. Maybe I'm just paying more attention, or they are getting more media coverage, but they just seem to be accelerating....not good.

 

Please understand that I do not trivialize any disappearances, but there's more this than just that we've heard about more now than in the past.

 

First of all, there are literally thousands more pax cruising now than ever before. Consider all the new mega ships, multiply that by 50 to 52 weeks a year. There are bound to be more disappearances and other incidents.

 

Second, these kinds of things get big news play because they are sensational. How many disappearances on land do you suppose we never, ever hear about? I'd guess thousands every year.

 

So, we can be dismayed and consider that something bad is happening to cruising, but the fact is that based on statistics, it's probably pretty much status quo.

 

And again, I do not dismiss or diminish the seriousness of a person's disappearance--not at sea nor on land.

 

beachchick

[1corona4u]

Please understand that I do not trivialize any disappearances, but there's more this than just that we've heard about more now than in the past.

 

First of all, there are literally thousands more pax cruising now than ever before. Consider all the new mega ships, multiply that by 50 to 52 weeks a year. There are bound to be more disappearances and other incidents.

 

Second, these kinds of things get big news play because they are sensational. How many disappearances on land do you suppose we never, ever hear about? I'd guess thousands every year.

 

So, we can be dismayed and consider that something bad is happening to cruising, but the fact is that based on statistics, it's probably pretty much status quo.

 

And again, I do not dismiss or diminish the seriousness of a person's disappearance--not at sea nor on land.

 

beachchick

 

The fact is, that there are no recorded statistics, because they are not being tracked by any government agency, or anyone else for that matter.

 

I'm not talking about "events at sea" either. I am talking about offical record.

 

You can not convince me at this point, that this is "status quo". Maybe never will, since the outcome of these missing people is never solved or, at the very least, published. I do think they are isolated events, but as I said before, the fact that they sweep them under the rug sends a bad message.

 

Either way, it won't stop me from cruising.

[1corona4u]

Also, the night she went missing, we had 18 foot seas and effective wind speeds approaching 70 mph. If you were on an upper deck, it would have been easy to fall down or over, even with the railings. I saw several people blown against the walls or railings by extremely high gusts that night. With the high seas, the ship would do an incredible roll every once in a while.

 

Where were you when this occured? If you know.

[madforcruising]

The fact is, that there are no recorded statistics, because they are not being tracked by any government agency, or anyone else for that matter.

 

I'm not talking about "events at sea" either. I am talking about offical record.

 

You can not convince me at this point, that this is "status quo". Maybe never will, since the outcome of these missing people is never solved or, at the very least, published. I do think they are isolated events, but as I said before, the fact that they sweep them under the rug sends a bad message.

 

Either way, it won't stop me from cruising.

 

I agree with most what you said here, I´m just not sure that they really sweep them under the rug.

The fact that the cruise lines won´t go very offensive to the public and shout it out loud to the news is in my eyes no sign that they have to hide something.

 

First I can really understand that they don´t advertise that you can get overboard on their ships. It would be stupid from them don´t you think so?

 

The goal of the cruise lines is to notice the local authorities about the incidents. And most of the reports we read about some sort of Coast guard, Police or even FBI investigation is mentioned. I understand the cruise line not going into public with any more information as I´m sure they might get into legal problems if doing so.

 

The story we all get to know is always one sided as it´s usually only the story of the friends or relatives of the missing person. For sure these people can´t be objective with this matter and I fully understand this. I wouldn´t either. And the news that are publishing the story, well they want the story and a mysterious story where some foul play is involved or someone (like i.e. the cruise line) can be blamed for something, sells a lot better than a short note about a missing person and ongoing investigations.

 

The relatives of the missing people often want the publicity as they think the attention they get could help to get some more information and so they blame each and everyone for not being helpful. This might be true but I take it with not only a grain of salt as we mostly only hear their side of the story and maybe there is simply not more to report to them and the whole story will stay in the dark what is of course not sufficient for them. As a result they blame others for holding back information.

 

Sorry for getting a little lengthy I just wanted to make my thoughts about the things we read in the newspapers or see on TV are mostly not the whole story and quite one sided.

 

 

I like the idea of video cameras recording the rails 24/7. If they are doing that then what is the question. If they aren't then they should. It's really as simple as that.

 

I´m sure the recordings they have are given to the local authorities.

But I doubt they have recordings of all railings and I highly doubt that it´s possible to do that.

Just think about the hughe amount of cameras and recording devices they would need to monitor every single outside spot of the ship.

On an average size ship pf let´s say Radiance class this would be a length of 962´ and a width of 105,6´. Don´t forget they will have to monitor this length and width on at least 9 decks which have access to the outside. This includes all balconies that have to be monitored as these incidents not only happen on public decks. Because of the dividers they probably would have to install cameras on every single balcony otherwise there would be not a complete monitoring.

Of course this would eliminate every privacy on your balcony.

 

Just to make clear it´s not as simple as that. At least in my eyes.

[TrinaLC]

Not to trivialize this tragedy but for those of you who like a good, fun read, there is a book called Skinny Dip that came out last summer involving a husband disposing of his wife in this manner - a light, good read ...

[cusyl]

Also, the night she went missing, we had 18 foot seas and effective wind speeds approaching 70 mph. If you were on an upper deck, it would have been easy to fall down or over, even with the railings. I saw several people blown against the walls or railings by extremely high gusts that night. With the high seas, the ship would do an incredible roll every once in a while.

Just a thought, but you wouldn't think the crew would allow anyone out on the upper decks with wind speeds of 70 mph. Usually they have signs on the door not to go outside. Doubt a person could even walk out on deck in those winds. She would have to be an idiot to do so. Did they have a balcony cabin I wonder? My thoughts are if you have a terminal illness and don't want to deal with it, it's a cheap way to go out. No expensive, painful treatments and no expensive funeral. Still, it's so unfair to the survivors to never have closure.

[bbnbama]

I am a young female and I have never felt scared to walk around alone on a cruise ship, day or night. I know this is frightful news, but nothing that should discourage someone from having fun on their cruise.. even going to get a cup of coffee at 11PM by yourself on deck. Its just an unfortunate occurance...not one that happens OFTEN.

 

I get more anxious and nervous when I am on the islands in other countries than on the ship. Maybe its just me.

 

No, its not just you...I also feel this way. I was on the NOS in October and I was walking around on the upper deck by myself at 1:00 and 2:00 in the morning when the only other person out at that time was a worker cleaning around the pool. I never once felt scared. My fiancee would go to bed early and I wanted to make sure to savor every moment so I was constantly up and about at all hours of the night all over the ship and never felt frightenend.

We go to Jamaica, get in a taxi and I instantly felt uncomfortable with the situation around me and the circumstances surrounding that taxi ride. I'd much prefer the ship!

[jetskier]

Just think about the hughe amount of cameras and recording devices they would need to monitor every single outside spot of the ship.

On an average size ship pf let´s say Radiance class this would be a length of 962´ and a width of 105,6´. Don´t forget they will have to monitor this length and width on at least 9 decks which have access to the outside. This includes all balconies that have to be monitored as these incidents not only happen on public decks. Because of the dividers they probably would have to install cameras on every single balcony otherwise there would be not a complete monitoring.Of course this would eliminate every privacy on your balcony.

Just to make clear it´s not as simple as that. At least in my eyes.

 

On the Sun, there is camera coverage that is pretty extensive on the Promanade deck. It is setup correctly where one camera view overlaps the next. There were also cctv setup on the outside looking down the length of the railing. In addition, there were cctv setups on the bridge extensions looking back down the ship to cover the balconies. In this day and age with the large harddrives and digital conversion of the signal, it is easy to store large amounts of video.

 

As far as the balconies, the idea is not to look into one but to cover the length of the ship.

 

Dave

[Sassy Chassis]

At our Captain's lecture, he told us that when people go overboard there is only about a 15% chance of ever being found/picked up. :(

[madforcruising]

On the Sun, there is camera coverage that is pretty extensive on the Promanade deck. It is setup correctly where one camera view overlaps the next. There were also cctv setup on the outside looking down the length of the railing. In addition, there were cctv setups on the bridge extensions looking back down the ship to cover the balconies. In this day and age with the large harddrives and digital conversion of the signal, it is easy to store large amounts of video.

 

As far as the balconies, the idea is not to look into one but to cover the length of the ship.

 

Dave

 

I don´t doubt those cameras and I´ve seen them myself and I know about digital recording capabilities. Still I stand to my post.

Even with those cameras you described there would be black spots that are not covered from the cameras especially in the dark of the night and that´s the time most of these incidents seem to happen.

I disagree on your last statement. The discussion with the cameras is not only to get a clue that someone went overboard. That´s quite obvious in many cases even without a video of it happening, whereelse should the person have gone when being aboard at sailaway and not sometime out at sea?

The main question in most cases is what happened and why. To get a clue if it was accidential, suicide or murder you would need to have a video not only of the lengt of the ship but of the part behind the railings (balconies, etc.) too.

 

Anyway there is no way of complete camera coverage possible. Not at land and not on ships. Something can happen everywhere and ships are nothing else than small cities with everything good and bad happening.

[steve20832]

http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/12/11/bahamas-051211.html?sym=rss

 

 

The U.S. Coast Guard and Bahamian naval boats have called off a search for a Canadian woman who mysteriously disappeared while on a cruise ship off the Bahamas. Officials said they feared Jill Begora, 59, may have fallen overboard as she travelled on the Royal Caribbean cruise ship Jewel of the Seas on the weekend.

Her husband reported her absence on Saturday morning, as the ship approached the Bahamian capital of Nassau after visiting the eastern Caribbean island of Antigua.

The crew searched the vessel but couldn't find any sign of Begora and filed a missing person report with the U.S. Coast Guard.

"They did a full ship search and there was no evidence that she had left the ship in Nassau," leading officials to believe she may have fallen into the water, Coast Guard spokesman Dana Warr told the Associated Press.

Bahamian navy crews combed the shorelines while a U.S. Coast Guard plane conducted overhead searches in the area where she was reported missing, about 40 kilometres northeast of Nassau.

Late Sunday, Warr said the search had been called off and wouldn't resume.

He said the ship had arrived in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., where it was searched by Coast Guard staff.

The investigation will be turned over to the FBI, officials said.

Officials didn't immediately say where Begora was from or give other details about her.

[gone_cruisin]

My thoughts are if you have a terminal illness and don't want to deal with it, it's a cheap way to go out. No expensive, painful treatments and no expensive funeral. Still, it's so unfair to the survivors to never have closure.

 

I shutter at the thought if you survive the fall to the water...then what?

Hours of waiting to die? YUCK!

[canucks4]

Her name is Jill Begora, wife of a retired dentist from St. Catharines who recently moved out west. Dennis is a very nice man who loves cruising and travelling. I hope this is just a very sad situation and nothing more.

[C 2 C]

Google search of missing overboard:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2005/06/06/story1.html

[fireguy091]

I have to agree that while this is a sad situation, I still do not know how someone can fall off of a cruise ship unless they want to, are helped or are forced.

 

I have read several people say they don't see how a person can fall overboard. The answer is simple. Dumb people do dumb things.. I have personally witnessed a person come close to falling overboard. The very drunk young lady was sitting on the railing talking to her companion when she almost fell over backwards. He luckily grabbed her arm and stopped her. I have since seen people sitting on the railings and commented that it isn't a very smart thing to be doing..

[fireguy091]

where did they hide this thread

[Lynnees]

As already stated, this poor couple are from St, Catharines, Ontario. Apparently the last time he saw his wife was at 9 am. Saturday morning. Makes it even more weird if you ask me.

 

As for the one we say on the Serenade, he jumped himself. Apparently he wanted "attention". Well, he got that alright. They put him and his wife off the next morning at St. Thomas.

[wl2cruise]

All the cruises Ive went on they tell us the forecast. One time they warned us of the high seas and strong wind gust and the capatain said it would not be to smart to go on the open deck with this type of weather why in the world would somebody be out on the open deck in those types of weather conditions?:confused:

[above sea level cruiser]

My DH won't let me go ANYWHERE alone on a cruise ship. I used to think he was too protective.

 

I wonder why there are no video cameras watching the rails. Or are there?

 

We were fortunate enough to get a bridge tour on Voyager of the seas this fall and here's what we learned: There is actually a camera - some sort of heat seeking/sensitive type - that constantly monitors the wake of the ship. It is pointed aft and is like a video type camera. Our Captain said it was used to prove to everyone that no waste of any kind- including oily bilge water, was discharged at sea. I wonder if this camera (recording 24 hours a day) would pick up on this sort of thing? Still, jumpers...pushers...it all gives me the creeps.

[nfused2cruze]

Whoever is pushing people off the deck just needs to stop! Enough is enough!!! Aren't there other actvities to get involved with?!!! :confused:

[Cruising Jedi]

Apparently the last time he saw his wife was at 9 am. Saturday morning. Makes it even more weird if you ask me.

 

I agree, it is very weird. It is not the 2:00 a.m. and too drunk to know what you're doing type of scenario. At that time of day, you would think someone would have been around to see something. :confused: I believe he reported her missing at around 1:00 p.m. the same day so what could have happened in those hours?