NOROVIRUS on Solstice

[Redking]

Read the previous threads on the Solstice, they are doing the best they can. Your comments are just outrageous and lack any sense of reality. Just a hit job.

Well said. Of course those of us have travelled or are about to travel on the Solstice are concerned, not to mention the poor people who have been infected. Celebrity have no control over the incidence of infection in the broader community. Fact check before posting!

 

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[OIAIO]

I was on the cruise that just ended. The crew has not had time off due to room attendants sanitizing the rooms twice a day. There is plastic wrap in front of the buffet so the passengers aren't touching anything. No dishes, salt, pepper, butter, sweetener, etc. are touched by passengers. The crew are wearing latex gloves and, in some cases, masks. Hand sanitizer is everywhere and forced on passengers, rightfully so. There is major protocol for this. No hand shaking with crew, etc. They even had a shipment of special cleaner shipped from the US since they weren't able to get it in Australia or New Zealand. But I saw passengers evade hand sanitizer at the entrances to restaurant and stores, no hand washing leaving the ladies room, etc. I do think it's passengers keeping this alive. Passengers who were ill also didn't report it because they were confined to their staterooms for 24 hours if they did and they didn't want to be cooped up. Celebrity is doing their best to get rid of it but they're not receiving full cooperation of the passengers. The majority of us adhered to the rules but there were some who didn't. I also noticed that we'd hear of 6 of a group of 50 or 3 of a family of 6 getting sick. Might be how it's shared. After hearing people complain about the "inconvenience" they experienced, I wonder who's carrying the virus. Also, the crew were much more fastidious about following the hygiene rules -- they'd like to get time off again. Another comment to the originator of this thread, there were very few children on our cruise.

 

good to see a positive response is finaaly happening! hopefully by nov 25 it is ok !

it is a special cruise for my wife and me, we have no option to miss it!

visiting the lighthouses my wife used to live on as a child!

[Kitekat]

Our understanding is that this infection was brought on board on the Solstice relocation cruise from Hawaii. By the end of the cruise we were in full code Red with no self service, salt and pepper in sachets etc. There was no vacuuming of cabins as this is considered to be one way in which the virus might be spread.

 

There were a number of selfish people who were ill and left their cabins. The ladies toilets outside the MDR deck 4 was twice closed on consecutive evenings due to vomit both inside and outside, in front of the restaurant. Not what you want to see when dining.

[OIAIO]

the problem with the virus is, that it is spread so easy!

[OIAIO]

I hope any people joining this next trip read this and learn from it!

We want the next trip to be clean of this.

YES EVERYBODY BOARDING THE SHIP IS RESPONSIBLE TO KEEP THE SHIP CLEAN!

Anybody that has any symptons needs to stay in the cabin straight away, not spread the virus!

then we all can have a good trip!

[OIAIO]

Any person not following the basic rules should be offloaded by the crew ASAP!

[Newby58]

the problem with the virus is, that it is spread so easy!

 

 

 

Yes. And only bleach will kill it and bleach is a prohibited substance on cruise ships.

 

 

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[gold1953]

in regards o the comment about people skipping the hand sanitizers .. some are very allergic so not an option.

 

If the ship is well cleaned maybe there is s popular spot near the port where a few cruisers stop and possibly pick up the germ. Maybe it starts after the first port stop possibly on a local excursion bus. Possibilities are endless

[AnOnymously]

Yes. And only bleach will kill it and bleach is a prohibited substance on cruise ships.

 

 

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If passengers are responsible for this not going away after 'proper' cleaning, why does every ship not have the same problem and norro crop up on every voyage? This virus is endemic on this ship and the company has to take it out of service and use bleach or whatever else to thoroughly clean all the surfaces on the ship. It can lodge in the crevices of the toilets, handles and one person on here reported mould in the bathrooms. Cleaning that kills the virus will certainly kill mould. It is not the staff's fault, nor the passengers (they may well break the rules and the infection spread) it is the companies fault for putting profits before the safety of their passengers and not taking the ship out of action and having it clinically cleaned. They are putting on a show and hoping that it goes away.

[AnOnymously]

in regards o the comment about people skipping the hand sanitizers .. some are very allergic so not an option.

 

If the ship is well cleaned maybe there is s popular spot near the port where a few cruisers stop and possibly pick up the germ. Maybe it starts after the first port stop possibly on a local excursion bus. Possibilities are endless

 

If it is picked up after a port stop ON EVERY CRUISE why do other ships not have it cruise on cruise as Solstice have?

[chengkp75]

While consumer grade, alcohol based hand cleaners are not completely effective against the Noro virus, the commercial grade hand sanitizers the ships use are indeed effective. The NHS "information" is to warn you against the consumer grade hand sanitizers available in the UK, not the commercial ones used internationally.

 

The brands tested and approved by the CDC (or the FDA, I forget which) include Clorox Hand Sanitizing Spray and Germstar Noro . Germstar is the one I see most often on cruise ships. You can buy Clorox and some others over the counter in America, but generally they are only available for commercial use.

 

Norovirus can live on surfaces for up to two weeks. This 2 page PDF file is a list of approved surface sanitizing agents. The ones from Clorox recommend leaving the surface wet at least 3 minutes with the solution.

 

About 1% of Noro outbreaks are on cruise ships. You are more likely to get it if you eat at restaurants on land, which are responsible for 70% of the outbreaks in the US. The incubation period is from 12 hours to 36 hours, so someone getting sick the day of embarkation has carried it aboard. Someone getting sick early the next morning has probably carried it aboard.

 

To the best of my knowledge, no consumer hand sanitizer is "approved" by the FDA (they test hand sanitizers), if you mean being classed as GRASE I (Generally Regarded as Safe and Effective, class I). The only active ingredients that I've heard that are classed grade I are: alcohol (60-95%), and povidone iodine. All other ingredients are considered GRASE III (more testing and data needed before reclassification), and may continue to advertise claims of effectiveness. And note, that the rating of GRASE I does not mean the sanitizer is effective against every bacteria or virus, just the preponderance of them. Also, just because a sanitizer has a GRASE I ingredient, does not guarantee that it has it in the required concentration to ensure effectiveness in the product contact time.

 

Germstar Noro is basically alcohol, at the lower end of the GRASE I concentration (63%, so it may have been reclassed lately, I just haven't seen anything about it), and I find it's claims that the "emollients" in the formula aid in killing the virus interesting. Emollients are moisturizers, and are added to counteract the drying effect of that concentration of alcohol.

 

As recently as June 2016, the FDA was requesting more information on the effectiveness of alcohol, isopropyl ahcohol, and benzothonium chloride. So, the FDA is still not convinced that alcohol in concentrations like Germstar Noro are effective when used in a "leave on" type of sanitizer.

[gold1953]

If it is picked up after a port stop ON EVERY CRUISE why do other ships not have it cruise on cruise as Solstice have?

It takes one person to come in contact/.. just one..

[SchoolNurseMom]

You do realize that norovirus is THE most common stomach virus out there...anywhere. Not just on ships or airplanes, etc. Proper handwashing is the number one way to prevent it. Hand sanitizer is not great for anything but drying out your skin. LOL

[dkjretired]

You do realize that norovirus is THE most common stomach virus out there...anywhere. Not just on ships or airplanes, etc. Proper handwashing is the number one way to prevent it. Hand sanitizer is not great for anything but drying out your skin. LOL

 

Yup, something like 30 million Americans get noro every year according to the CDC, about 4000 of them are on cruise ships.

 

Should also point out that people can get it on shore excursions also.

[Champagne Cruiser]

We sailed on the Solstice for 18 nights this past spring. The ship was immaculate, no problems at all

 

BTW does OP know there are other punction marks besides exclamation points?

[AnOnymously]

It takes one person to come in contact/.. just one..

Absolutely, but a bit strange that one person keeps getting this when they are on Solstice and not a person on most other cruise line ships. Can believe ones is an accident but back to back, you are joking, the odds are better for winning the lottery.

 

If I went on board the ship and caught it, I would certainly sue, they have a duty of care and bookings in the UK can have that backed up in court.

 

The only way to make this ship safe is to take it out of service and have it clinically cleaned, every nook and cranny and every plug hole and drain. It is endemic now.

[Karynanne]

Absolutely, but a bit strange that one person keeps getting this when they are on Solstice and not a person on most other cruise line ships. Can believe ones is an accident but back to back, you are joking, the odds are better for winning the lottery.

 

 

 

If I went on board the ship and caught it, I would certainly sue, they have a duty of care and bookings in the UK can have that backed up in court.

 

 

 

The only way to make this ship safe is to take it out of service and have it clinically cleaned, every nook and cranny and every plug hole and drain. It is endemic now.

 

 

 

What if you got it on an airplane? Would you sue them also?

 

Your attitude regarding this issue doesn’t address the issue.

 

The ship isn’t sick...passengers are. And they bring it onboard.

 

Common sense is useful in this situation.

 

 

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[AnOnymously]

What if you got it on an airplane? Would you sue them also?

 

Your attitude regarding this issue doesn’t address the issue.

 

The ship isn’t sick...passengers are. And they bring it onboard.

 

Common sense is useful in this situation.

 

 

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I would not sue if I caught this on a plane, well only if I found out that someone had caught it on the flight before I got on and then that someone had caught it on the flight before that. I would by this time be thinking that PROBABLY the airplane company had not cleaned the plane properly after the first bout and then the plane company ARE RESPONSIBLE.

 

Now back to ships, once is because passengers brought it on, still there for the next sailing, well and the next. You get my meaning. Then the ship has the virus and it has not been removed. Then the ship is failing in it's duty of care to the passengers and I would sue.

[chengkp75]

I would not sue if I caught this on a plane, well only if I found out that someone had caught it on the flight before I got on and then that someone had caught it on the flight before that. I would by this time be thinking that PROBABLY the airplane company had not cleaned the plane properly after the first bout and then the plane company ARE RESPONSIBLE.

 

Now back to ships, once is because passengers brought it on, still there for the next sailing, well and the next. You get my meaning. Then the ship has the virus and it has not been removed. Then the ship is failing in it's duty of care to the passengers and I would sue.

 

One of the most important statistics that epidemiologists like the CDC use is the trend in the number of new cases. If the number of cases rises from the beginning of the cruise, but then tapers off near the end of the cruise, and then rises again the next cruise, it has been found that the ship is being recontaminated by the only thing that changes between cruises, the passengers. So, even if the ship was removed from service, and cleaned as you want, the first person onboard who is infected and has poor personal hygiene, can reintroduce the virus on previously sanitized surfaces, and away you go again. Only if the trend in new reported cases stays at a constant high number over the transition between cruises has it been found to be more likely a crew member who is reinfecting things. Unless you can access the reports from the ship to the CDC to see what the daily trends are, you have no idea whether "the ship has the virus" or whether it is being reinfected each cruise.

 

Not sure what you mean by "one person keeps getting this when they are on the Solstice and not a person on most other cruise ships"? Are you saying that one person keeps getting infected over and over?

 

As to why a particular ship gets a repeated outbreak and other ships don't, until you put the exact same passengers and crew on each ship, you cannot compare ships. The demographics of each and every cruise, on each and every ship, is different, so you cannot make general statements across the industry.

 

I have fought repeated outbreaks on ships, and even under the supervision of USPH inspectors, and even when they are satisfied with the protocols being used, we can still have cases the next cruise if someone brings it back onboard.

[gmh300968]

Most individuals who take that tact obviously missed that day's lesson in biology or general science class...

 

If they pay closer attention here on CC they can learn quite a bit of good information in this realm...

 

Thanks for your post.

 

 

bon voyage

And your point is?

[AnOnymously]

One of the most important statistics that epidemiologists like the CDC use is the trend in the number of new cases. If the number of cases rises from the beginning of the cruise, but then tapers off near the end of the cruise, and then rises again the next cruise, it has been found that the ship is being recontaminated by the only thing that changes between cruises, the passengers. So, even if the ship was removed from service, and cleaned as you want, the first person onboard who is infected and has poor personal hygiene, can reintroduce the virus on previously sanitized surfaces, and away you go again. Only if the trend in new reported cases stays at a constant high number over the transition between cruises has it been found to be more likely a crew member who is reinfecting things. Unless you can access the reports from the ship to the CDC to see what the daily trends are, you have no idea whether "the ship has the virus" or whether it is being reinfected each cruise.

 

Not sure what you mean by "one person keeps getting this when they are on the Solstice and not a person on most other cruise ships"? Are you saying that one person keeps getting infected over and over?

 

As to why a particular ship gets a repeated outbreak and other ships don't, until you put the exact same passengers and crew on each ship, you cannot compare ships. The demographics of each and every cruise, on each and every ship, is different, so you cannot make general statements across the industry.

 

I have fought repeated outbreaks on ships, and even under the supervision of USPH inspectors, and even when they are satisfied with the protocols being used, we can still have cases the next cruise if someone brings it back onboard.

I mean that the odds go up for several back to back re-infections, yes there is a chance that it might be random, but there is a chance that I might win the lottery.

But I would ensure that Celebrity had to prove in an English court (I am assuming I booked this and a booking in UK is covered by English courts) then Celebrity would have to prove they did everything possible to clean the ship, including taking it out of service after the third outbreak and not have patches of mould on showers etc (read the earlier op's post) where bugs can hide.

 

Can someone post which other ship has had so many back to back outbreaks. It is endemic and I am so glad that I have not booked that fictional cruise I spoke about earlier.

[lovecruzin]

Absolutely, but a bit strange that one person keeps getting this when they are on Solstice and not a person on most other cruise line ships. Can believe ones is an accident but back to back, you are joking, the odds are better for winning the lottery.

 

If I went on board the ship and caught it, I would certainly sue, they have a duty of care and bookings in the UK can have that backed up in court.

 

The only way to make this ship safe is to take it out of service and have it clinically cleaned, every nook and cranny and every plug hole and drain. It is endemic now.

 

So if you boarded a ship and came down woth Noro you would sue? How could you be certain that you caught it on the ship and not on your flight, or hotel and carried it yourself onto the ship? With a median incubation period of approx 33 hours, its possible. Should your fellow pax then sue you?

 

Considering the number of cases on Solstice has declined, they are obviously doing something right.

[lovecruzin]

 

Can someone post which other ship has had so many back to back outbreaks. It is endemic and I am so glad that I have not booked that fictional cruise I spoke about earlier.

 

Google is your friend

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm#2017

 

If this list is accurate, it appears Celebrity doesnt have very many outbreaks.

[PSU]

Absolutely, but a bit strange that one person keeps getting this when they are on Solstice and not a person on most other cruise line ships. Can believe ones is an accident but back to back, you are joking, the odds are better for winning the lottery.

 

 

 

If I went on board the ship and caught it, I would certainly sue, they have a duty of care and bookings in the UK can have that backed up in court.

 

 

 

The only way to make this ship safe is to take it out of service and have it clinically cleaned, every nook and cranny and every plug hole and drain. It is endemic now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[PSU]

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Many other cruises lines experience Noro sailing after sailing. Regent and Oceania are two of them

 

 

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