Silver Explorer 7816, Nome to Nome disappointment

[PJSphotog]

Marq,

 

 

Brad was put in an impossible position, but his skills at presentation, explanation, and putting a pretty face on an awful situation would not get him a passing grade in school, let alone in the real world.

 

 

As for Silversea, the plan clearly was "Everything will go as planned, fingers crossed" and nothing more. You go to the Arctic, you plan for ice. If you don't plan for ice, you are either brand-new to the job, or incompetent. If you have to deal with recalcitrant Russian authorities, you have Plan A, then B, C, D, etc. One of the problems was that we had to pick up Russian Rangers at every stop that was a National Park.

 

 

 

Silversea isn't new to this, it never occurred to them to simply pay the salary of a Russian Ranger to be on board the whole time? There were empty cabins, we had room enough for a Ranger and his supervisor for each zodiac. Having even one Ranger already on board would have gotten us onto Wrangell, instead of the incompetence of merely seeing it from six nautical miles, on a zodiac.

 

 

There are a few people I'm willing to cut some slack for, and they are in the hotel and food areas. The rest? I would have had more fun simply torching a bonfire of twenty-dollar bills, for as much enjoyment as the cruise ended up being. As you said, 30K to play cards and engage in trivia contests is absurd.

 

 

 

The compensation Silversea has offered is at best poor. Considering how long it took for them to offer the paltry amount, and the effort it took to nag them into it, I am insulted.

[Observer]

One of the problems was that we had to pick up Russian Rangers at every stop that was a National Park.

 

Silversea isn't new to this, it never occurred to them to simply pay the salary of a Russian Ranger to be on board the whole time? There were empty cabins, we had room enough for a Ranger and his supervisor for each zodiac. Having even one Ranger already on board would have gotten us onto Wrangell, instead of the incompetence of merely seeing it from six nautical miles, on a zodiac.

 

I understand your frustration and would doubtless have felt likewise had I been on this expedition cruise.

 

But the proposed solution (above) may be less practical/possible than it seems.

 

It could well be that the Ranger union requires that a different Ranger from the particular park be onboard (and be paid!) and having one Ranger pocket all of the earnings for the various park visits would not be acceptable.

 

I recall a cruise on another luxury line where we were informed several days in advance that a remote port would be missed because the one pilot was convalescing. Guests insisted that we keep the pilot from the previous port. At his daily announcement the Captain explained why this was not possible, that pilots are port-specific, etc.

[PJSphotog]

Were that the case on our voyage, the Captain could have said so when the idea was raised. Oh, wait, the Captain never talked to us/met the passengers except for the first and last night dinners.

 

 

Port pilots are experts on their port, and the specific (and sometimes changing) problems of that location. If park Rangers are similarly specific, don't ever get assigned to some far-flung park, you'll be there until you retire. Not to disparage the Rangers, it isn't the same thing as being a port pilot.

 

 

The main thing about this situation is this: no questions were ever answered. No problem was ever laid out clearly. We were basically treated like a bunch of grade-school kids on a museum outing, left in the dark, and when the plans fell through, stonewalled at every step.

[MaryB1]

Not meaning to highjack this thread but the silver cloud cruise to the northwest passage that departed on august18 has has turned into a mystery cruise of Greenland. Captain here has the same fear of ice or it might be corporate giving direction. We have missed many ports including the rescheduled ports. The only given is they will get us off the ship on the correct day.

 

Will share details once we are home.

 

Mary

[UKCruiseJeff]

It is a new product. The Magical Mystery Cruise.

[Mike2131]

cruiser2001, I thought Brad did a wonderful job; in addition to his management of his staff, he was put into a very bad position by Corporate and the Captain and he handled it well. I also thought Cory was wonderful and helpful; I think the next Robin. Also, Luke has been fantastic on every cruise that we have sailed with him, I think he will be a great Expedition Leader.

 

Marc

Hi Marc. If you mean Luke Kenny, I am very glad to hear the kind words regarding him. He will be our Expedition Leader on the November 5th Valparaiso-Ushuaia sailing (first trip after the upcoming dry dock).

[BlackKat]

Just seen the conversation on the Nome to Nome disappointment cruise. Never posted on Cruise Critic before - first time here. Like many of us on this ill-fated "expedition" we were massively disappointed in this cruise which we had booked some 2 years ago. We understood that the ice was further south than had been originally predicted. We had an ice expert on board . We had 2 Russian agents on board. We saw the charts of the ice changing and moving. We cruised up and down the Chutki sea, we performed "holding patterns "(a triangle) south of Wrangell Island. We cruised back down the Chutki sea to the US waters to allow a critically crew member off the ship by the US coastguard. We cruised back to Wrangell Island. We were delighted to see that the ice had dissipated after a recent storm. We were on a zodiac with the expedition leader (Brad) as we cruised the ice around Wrangell Island. We were all delighted that we were within sight of landing.. He was sure we would go in.. but no - during lunch without any announcement at the time - the Captain made the decision to cruise away from Wrangell Island. The ice was still too thick for the Explorer. We didn't attempt to go in on Zodiacs to pick ups the rangers. We couldn't even stop to ice cruise due to the stringent Russian rules of needing to be 30 nautical miles away from Wrangell Island (if there is no intention to land. We were never shown the ice charts again despite being requested - for some reason there was a delay in them being received by the ship?? For us the cruise was over a week before it actually finished... I think we spent 8 full days at sea with no stops in the entire voyage. We ended up cruising to Anadyr .. miles off our original or even revised itinerary to refuel for the next cruise. We finished the cruise a day early. We wondered why we had spent tens of thousands of $$ and 18 days of our time on this voyage. We couldn't wait to get off. The offer of compensation whilst on board of 20% of monies spent on this cruise off a future Silversea cruise was absolutely insulting and derisory. We have spent days and time communicating with Silversea and received a further money off a future cruise offer. No one has had the courtesy to call us. Silversea Head office need to engage with their passengers and customers on a more personal level. I would agree with the other comments that the expedition staff were excellent and without fault and did their utmost for us.. Cory, Susan, Peter, Robin, HP, Danny to name a few. It was all such a pity and a disappointment that the expedition turned out to be a voyage to nowhere very much! I'm pretty sure that none of us would have ever booked the voyage that we actually undertook!! It was an expedition - not a cruise.. we were prepared for some changes to the itinerary but felt pretty short changed by the end of it. I think there are some serious questions to be answered by Silversea about the fuel supply issue in Nome and the reason for having to divert to Anadyr to refuel for the next voyage and whether these factors meant that we couldn't attempt Wrangell Island as the ice was melting? We have had pretty amazing expeditions with Silversea before - Antarctica and the Arctic but this was completely different in the worst possible way!

[mrlevin]

So, what constructively can we do? If we all cancel ALL future Silversea cruises I still don't think Silversea would put two and two together. I am a bit of a rebel and was a bit vocal onboard but I sometimes felt all alone. I had to draw out of Brad that the last eight days would be basically sea days; anti-climactic if there had, in fact, been a climax at some point. It was recommended that I post on Silversea Facebook page but couldn't figure out how to do that. I think we on cc are a very small portion of Silversea cruisers so they aren't scared of a little bad press here.

 

They satisfied the contract; they got us from Nome to Nome and gave us 19 nights onboard in between so no legal redress; our only redress is with out money. So, anyone cancelling all future Silversea cruises?

 

Marc

[mrlevin]

Not meaning to highjack this thread but the silver cloud cruise to the northwest passage that departed on august18 has has turned into a mystery cruise of Greenland. Captain here has the same fear of ice or it might be corporate giving direction. We have missed many ports including the rescheduled ports. The only given is they will get us off the ship on the correct day.

 

Will share details once we are home.

 

Mary

 

Mary, we were on Northwest Passage in 2014 (full transit unlike your in and out) the Silversea scheduled too early; so, we had to spend extra time in Greenland. After the sixth Greenlandic village we were itching to get to Canada where we could at least spot wildlife. Will be interested in your post-trip report and if you can provide original itinerary and eventual itinerary it would be great.

 

edited to add:

 

Just found your original itinerary; curious as to why changes as ice not an issue:

 

Day 1 - Kangerlussuaq

 

Arrive: Sat 18 August 2018 / Depart: Sat 18 August 2018 at 18:00

 

Day 2 - Sisimiut Holsteinsborg

 

Arrive: Sun 19 August 2018 / Depart: Sun 19 August 2018

 

Day 3 - Uummannaq

 

Arrive: Mon 20 August 2018 / Depart: Mon 20 August 2018 at 19:00

 

Day 4 - At Sea

 

 

Day 5 - Pond Inlet

 

Arrive: Wed 22 August 2018 at 12:00 / Depart: Wed 22 August 2018 at 18:00

 

Day 6 - Buchan Gulf

 

 

Day 7 - Bylot Island

 

 

Day 8 - At Sea

 

 

Day 9 - Beechey Island

 

Arrive: Sun 26 August 2018 at 08:00 / Depart: Sun 26 August 2018 at 12:00

 

Day 9 - Radsock Bay,Devon Island

 

 

Day 10 - Dundas

 

Arrive: Mon 27 August 2018 at 09:00 / Depart: Mon 27 August 2018 at 15:00

 

Day 11 - Ellesmere Island

 

 

Day 12 - At Sea

 

 

Day 13 - Upernavik

 

Arrive: Thu 30 August 2018 at 08:00 / Depart: Thu 30 August 2018 at 17:00

 

Day 14 - Qeqertarsuaq, Godhavn

 

Arrive: Fri 31 August 2018 at 11:30 / Depart: Fri 31 August 2018 at 23:00

 

Day 15 - Ililussat

 

Arrive: Sat 01 September 2018 at 06:00 / Depart: Sat 01 September 2018 at 23:00

 

Day 16 - At Sea

 

 

Day 17 - Kangerlussuaq

 

Arrive: Mon 03 September 2018 / Depart: Mon 03 September 2018

Here is the current ice chart:

 

Don't know why it shows up four times.

 

Marc

Edited August 29, 2018 by Marq

[cruiser 2001]

Marc,

 

We just did, today, cancel a booked and paid for cruise. We disagree that Silversea met its legal obligation. They began the cruise having received insufficient fuel in Nome, so either they didn't order enough (which is negligence) or they didn't receive enough (which is legally actionable on their part). There are other areas that might involve legal exposure, which is probably why they are very carefully responding with vetted form letters and no personal contact.

[mrlevin]

Marc,

 

We just did, today, cancel a booked and paid for cruise. We disagree that Silversea met its legal obligation. They began the cruise having received insufficient fuel in Nome, so either they didn't order enough (which is negligence) or they didn't receive enough (which is legally actionable on their part). There are other areas that might involve legal exposure, which is probably why they are very carefully responding with vetted form letters and no personal contact.

 

Here is the relevant paragraph from their T&C; I posted this on another site the day the revised itinerary was received by my TA.

 

Itinerary arrival and departure times are always subject tochange without notice. Silversea reserves the right to cancel,alter, advance, postpone or substitute any scheduled sailingor itinerary, substitute another vessel for the scheduled ship, orsubstitute or cancel scheduled ports of call, which, in its solejudgment and discretion, is justified for any reason, and to doso without liability for any loss whatsoever to guests as a resultof said change(s). Additionally, Silversea reserves the right tocancel reservations and bookings in the event of a full-shipcharter, whether or not a deposit or full payment has beenreceived, and in such event, Silversea’s only liability will be torefund to the guest the amount it has received.

 

The reason I added bolding was to express that they could have substituted a non-ice hulled ship such as Silver Discoverer.

 

All typos in the quote are in the original from silversea.com

 

Marc

[PJSphotog]

Marq,

 

 

Interesting, but not the case here. By the terms of that paragraph, Silversea could have dropped anchor within sight of Nome, provided 19 days of food and cabins, then returned, and called it "meeting the terms." Scandalous, despicable, but meeting the terms.

 

 

 

However, leaving port without enough fuel to complete the voyage (as we heard was the case, from more than one source on board) is not meeting the terms.

 

 

 

Leaving port without enough fuel, whilst planning to refuel at a port that was at that moment iced-in, and looked to remain so for the duration of the voyage, is something else. Then, using at least three days of our voyage, to go and refuel for the next voyage, is at the very least incompetence.

 

 

One drives to visit relatives with the plan of "I'll gas up at the next station I see." One does not shove off for the Arctic, any part of it, lacking sufficient fuel to make the voyage without resupply.

 

 

If lacking fuel in Nome was indeed the root cause, the wrath of the Silversea attorneys should be directed at the supplier, not at the passengers.

 

 

Not only would I have not paid for the cruise received, I would not have gone on it for free. I have better things to do with my time than steam at high speed back and forth across the Chukchi Sea for days at a time.

[mrlevin]

Marq,

 

Not only would I have not paid for the cruise received, I would not have gone on it for free. I have better things to do with my time than steam at high speed back and forth across the Chukchi Sea for days at a time.

 

I absolutely agree! What is worse for me is that I had actually considered cancelling this cruise last year and didn't.

[Observer]

They began the cruise having received insufficient fuel in Nome, so either they didn't order enough (which is negligence) or they didn't receive enough (which is legally actionable on their part).

 

Is this the case? I thought I had read that the fuel was unexpectedly depleted because of a medical emergency and the near to steam back to an area served by the US Coast Guard. Or was this a different expedition cruise?

[mrlevin]

In the revised itinerary received on 13 July we were supposed to refuel twice; on 31 July and 8 August both times in Pevek. We did not refuel until 11 August in Anadyr so obviously we did not need to refuel on 31 July or 8 August. Silversea has contradicted themselves so many times with regard to the fuel situation that there is no way to know the truth. All I know is that we could have gone straight to Nome with far less distance and time than going to Anadyr.

 

Marc

[cruiser 2001]

Is this the case? I thought I had read that the fuel was unexpectedly depleted because of a medical emergency and the near to steam back to an area served by the US Coast Guard. Or was this a different expedition cruise?

 

As Marc points out, the stories we were told by Silversea were often pretty contradictory. Word from locals in Nome, however, was that there was not sufficient fuel in the harbor to fuel the ship, though there was plenty of fuel for our voyage. The last minute changed itinerary was probably a way to get fuel needed for the next trip.

[PJSphotog]

To add a dimension to the disappointment of the cruise, and how frosted he passengers are:

 

 

When we arrived in Providenya, the Russians kept us onboard for six hours. Apparently they weren't going to let us into Russia, or off the ship, or who-know's-what.

 

 

 

Someone in Silversea, somewhere, prevailed, and the Russians relented. We went ashore for two hours at most. Even the MC for the cultural show commented on our "Finally meeting" in the auditorium.

 

 

 

I now wish that person had saved that favor they used up, and the Russians had turned us away. They wasted that favor, we wasted the time and money, and Silversea wasted our good will. Had we been denied, it would have made for a funny story to tell on a future cruise, a 100% credit, and 102 satisfied passengers.

 

 

It tells you a lot, when the attitude is "Better to have been turned around on Day One, than finish this ordeal."

[UKCruiseJeff]

Sympathies. Bad enough it happened but made much worst by the treatment of contempt. I fear that you will struggle to get a decent response from SS.

 

A few of us have had similar experiences recently, eg our recent cruise review and some other similar threads ....

 

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=626958

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2647256

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2637846

[mrlevin]

No reply from Silversea with respect to our request to use the 40% future cruise credit on a currently booked cruise; not even an acknowledgement that they are reviewing our request. Therefore, we are cancelling our three booked cruises and looking for a cruise which costs no more than the size of the future cruise credit. That will be the end of our relationship with Silversea.

 

Marc

[markham]

I am sorry to see from you and others how unprofessional

Silversea guest relations are proving to be. I have no experience with them, thankfully, but have been on one Whisper and will join a Cloud and a Muse cruise in 2019 and 2020.

 

That said, I have a lot of experience with Seabourn and I have always received timely reponses to any emailed letters I have written to their Seattle office in the event that it was a matter that could not be handled during my cruise.

 

Unlike Silversea, Seabourn has a simpler choice of ships with the Odyssey/Sojourn and Quest at 450 passengers and the Encore/Quest at 600. I much prefer the former. But do consider Seabourn. There are many similarities but obviosly win hands down with customer relations.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Marc,

 

You must be kicking yourself that you didn't follow your instinct and cancel last year as you had considered.

 

Most of our SS experience was a long time ago, and it seems to me that more people are complaining about much more serious issues now than ever before and it seems that an increase in complaints is being met with a greater and more regular degree of consistent intransigence that results in considerable unfairness in situations when SS are clearly culpable and be expected to behave honourably, promptly and fairly. In our case we were made very clear promises whilst on board, that with the benefit of hindsight we now realise were not made in good faith but simply to quieten us whilst on board, and our treatment since has been utterly contemptible. We were offered just 20% credit and a small OBC on a future cruise for a terrible experience when we were largely marooned in our suite because of the 220 "boozecruisers", which we are still currently pursuing. SS staff on board at first acknowledged the seriousness of the issue to us and others and promised refunds and then when we returned home and requested they keep their promises they trivialised the complaint and reneged on their promises and ignored us. The way they treated us after the cruise upset us as much as the cruise epxerience itself, because I now feel foolish and gullible in trusting them that they would simply do what they had promised us. It didn't occur to my wife or I that they would make very specific promises whilst on board and then cheat us afterwards. We were therefore forced to cancel our planned 2019 cruise and have received a full refund for it with no fees deducted. Only a fool repeats the same behaviour hoping for a different outcome.

 

The fact that you have been ignored mirrors our treatement and that of several other posters. Good luck with this issue and with your future travel plans.

[markham]

Related to these complaints I was wondering when Royal Caribbean will instill some discipline and/or takeover the administration of Silversea customer service. It sure looks weak, terribly so.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Related to these complaints I was wondering when Royal Caribbean will instill some discipline and/or takeover the administration of Silversea customer service. It sure looks weak, terribly so.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

It would indeed say much about SS if they need to be taught basic customer service skills and integrity by RCCL management and staff. It really should imho be the other way round.

[PJSphotog]

I wonder just what the situation is. Does Silversea feel so confident in their hold on the market segment they go for, that they feel they can shrug off complaints? Are they willing to put up with the criticisms, the bad experiences for their customers, and the hit to their reputation?

 

 

Do they make so much money that they can afford to have booked cruises cancelled, future income lost due to former customers leaving, and telling potential customers to stay away?

 

 

Or are they just utterly clueless? These are questions that are now rhetorical, because we have cancelled all future plans with Silversea, and in the future, anyone who asks will be told the tale of woe. Silversea has not just lost a customer, but gained an anti-advocate.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I wonder just what the situation is. Does Silversea feel so confident in their hold on the market segment they go for, that they feel they can shrug off complaints? Are they willing to put up with the criticisms, the bad experiences for their customers, and the hit to their reputation?

 

Do they make so much money that they can afford to have booked cruises cancelled, future income lost due to former customers leaving, and telling potential customers to stay away?

 

Or are they just utterly clueless? These are questions that are now rhetorical, because we have cancelled all future plans with Silversea, and in the future, anyone who asks will be told the tale of woe. Silversea has not just lost a customer, but gained an anti-advocate.

 

 

As someone who earned a living understanding CS and how best to harvest loyal customers, I have always tried to live by the maxim that you should never try to rationalise the irrational. It simply makes you more confused and bewildered.

 

However there is some logic from their viewpoint in what they do. So whether you agree with them or me or not, you have to conclude that they are not fools and know exactly what they are doing and understand the consequences of the actions they take. At the same time it is clear each of us underestimates how different we all are from each other. Two people can be served the same meal or the same cruise and one will love it and another hate it. I think the reality is that the market for the Silversea product is growing more rapidly than their ability to build and fill ships, presuming they have the appropriate marketing and price/offer/packaging points. There are also new markets with enough wealthy but inexperienced customers who will buy the product and be delighted. So, with these new emerging markets and more cruisers moving "up market" to "fully inclusive" there will be enough people to take the place of loyal customers who are disappointed and are cheated and who defect. This being so, any of us that labour under the foolish misunderstanding that loyalty has a cash value apart from the Venetian discount on selected cruises I think is deluding themselves. It seems that it is cheaper to have a few people defect than secure their loyalty.

 

When Silversea had a plan to release a ship prematurely following a complex refit it knew exactly what they were doing. When it booked out a group of 220 low paid multi-level sales agents and plied them with free booze, and failed to warn the other small minority of passengers who were booking the same cruise, it was no accident. It is simply greed in that the revenue was more important and providing a sub-standard but more profitable product which they would have known would disappoint customers - but this wasn't a problem for them.

 

Most rational and worldy wise people know that things will go wrong. They expect however not that the defects be purposefully planned into the product like the two examples I cite, but they happen unexpectedly. You then might expect if things go wrong for there to be an honesty and integrity with putting it right with one proviso. Most people know that "you get what you pay for" and so perhaps you might expect worst treatment from a provider of a cheap cruise or product than that provided by people who call themselves "leaders" in providing the finest of cruises at premium prices. So when you have an organisation that plans in defects, promises resolutions to put it right and then reneges, there are three stages that sensible customers could not have predicted. That is why, particularly when spending the sort of cash people spend on Silversea they should hope that it is good and doesn't disappoint, but it cannot presume it will be so and should understand how they will deal with reasonable complaints. Basically customers are taking a punt that things won't go wrong, certainly not purposefully and if they do it will be put right.

 

That is why these forums are so important and that people should be tolerant of bad reports as well as good ones, in that prospective customers can read about how good the product generally is but how bad it can also be, and how they might be treated when it is, and make a rational choice as to whether the risk is acceptable to them or not.