Silver Explorer 7816, Nome to Nome disappointment

[PJSphotog]

Speaking of the importance of forums, I have been in contact with a fellow cruiser on the voyage in question. They have for over a week now, been trying to post a review of the voyage, without success.

 

 

Does it normally take a week or more (admittedly, over a holiday weekend) to get a review posted on Cruise Critic?

[UKCruiseJeff]

Yes.

[Tarwood3]

I am sorry to see from you and others how unprofessional

Silversea guest relations are proving to be. I have no experience with them, thankfully, but have been on one Whisper and will join a Cloud and a Muse cruise in 2019 and 2020.

 

That said, I have a lot of experience with Seabourn and I have always received timely reponses to any emailed letters I have written to their Seattle office in the event that it was a matter that could not be handled during my cruise.

 

Unlike Silversea, Seabourn has a simpler choice of ships with the Odyssey/Sojourn and Quest at 450 passengers and the Encore/Quest at 600. I much prefer the former. But do consider Seabourn. There are many similarities but obviosly win hands down with customer relations.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

We have sailed SS a lot and have been very happy for the most part, but thought we would try Seabourn to see what the competition offers. I honestly didnt expect there to be much of a difference and figured there would be a few things we liked better on SB and a few things we like better on SS. We just got off our first SB cruise Saturday on the Encore and had an amazing trip! Its the little things at this level of cruising that really make the difference and SB seems to really try hard to keep everyone happy. We had an issue with air booked through SB and went to guest relations as soon as we boarded the ship. They worked on our request throughout the cruise trying to find a satisfactory resolution ...corporate initially told us “no”, but the guest services team and Hotel Director were persistent and we ended up getting what we wanted. I really appreciate their hard work and perseverance. This along with so many other things made our trip amazing. Itineraries being equal, we would choose SB first now. We have been converted. We definitely will continue to book SS but will always try to do SB first if possible.

[Bill B]

I wonder just what the situation is. Does Silversea feel so confident in their hold on the market segment they go for, that they feel they can shrug off complaints? Are they willing to put up with the criticisms, the bad experiences for their customers, and the hit to their reputation?

 

Do they make so much money that they can afford to have booked cruises cancelled, future income lost due to former customers leaving, and telling potential customers to stay away?

 

Or are they just utterly clueless? These are questions that are now rhetorical, because we have cancelled all future plans with Silversea, and in the future, anyone who asks will be told the tale of woe. Silversea has not just lost a customer, but gained an anti-advocate.

 

 

Jeff answered your questions very well. His reply is why I do not understand the 'cheerleaders' (every cruise line has them) on cruisecritic. People need to understand cruise lines are businesses, and the pax are just a 'number' to them. Despite the impression given by individual crew members, NO cruise line cares about their passengers personally. They make decisions based on one thing only - profit.

[Daveywavey70]

Very well said Jeff.

I’m so sorry that you have had the same experience of CS that we did Marc. The way it was left after my last contact with Silversea was that they said that they believed they had treated me more than fairly and if I don’t like it then I should take the legal route to redress, which is now underway. They have no interest in making good on their failures to provide what they have promised and been paid for but fail to provide. They seem quite happy to play the numbers game and assume that many won’t bother to pursue them and the ones that do win in court will be outweighed by the people that just don’t follow it through.

Whilst I’m sure that the bean counters have looked carefully at the pros and cons of compensating fairly when they have failed to provide what was promised, as opposed to taking their chances in court, I don’t believe that they have looked at the bigger picture. Dozens of my regular guests that previously sailed regularly with Silversea have told me that they wouldn’t never sail with them again after hearing my and other people’s stories of how they have been treated by them. This self inflicted damage to their reputation has cost them many £100s of thousands of pounds in future bookings from my friends alone.

 

Maybe RCI are able to look at the bigger picture and see that the cut throat, arrogant, couldn’t care less attitude of the current management isn’t in keeping with the Ultra Luxury image sold in their marketing but more likely an act of desperation to maximise income at any cost, mitigate refunds at any cost and cut overheads at any cost in order to make the company more saleable in the short term despite the long term damage done to both their reputation and future sales.

 

Any company that is happy to take long term damage for short term gain is obviously not in a good position.

 

I Can only hope that this is a temporary phase that the company has been going through whilst they were in the recent financial predicament that brought about the sale of the company and that RCI will quickly realise what’s been going on at SS and quickly but quietly replace the entire (mis)management of the company.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff answered your questions very well. His reply is why I do not understand the 'cheerleaders' (every cruise line has them) on cruisecritic. People need to understand cruise lines are businesses, and the pax are just a 'number' to them. Despite the impression given by individual crew members, NO cruise line cares about their passengers personally. They make decisions based on one thing only - profit.

 

Thanks Bill.

 

Many people including many organisations misunderstand the profit orientated role CS research has. It is not it's mission in a well ordered organisation to improve satisfaction with every element of the service it provides. Instead the role is to optimise available resources to target only those areas that are most important to customers that can be cost-effectively addressed. The mistake many organisations make is targetting resources without finding out what is important to customers first because they foolishly presume to already know. They therefore often end up spending and targetting and wasting incredible levels of resource, and management attention and cash where it hasn't bothered to prove that it is particularly valued by customers and therefore as a result not spending resource and attention where it is essential and important to customers. That is arrogance and ignorance based waste.

 

The most important part of our feedback to clients wasn't just highlighting areas of dissatisfaction or satisfaction but just as importantly highlighting areas that had received insufficient complaints or adverse comments - or indeed none at all.

 

Receiving no complaints at all may seemingly counter-intuitively be bad for business. That is why an experienced business/profit orientated consultant is essential because they will know not just to highlight what has been complained about but also what hasn't. One of the most important things I have been able ask clients is "Are you making enough profit? I ask because I am concerned that insufficient people complain about your pricing and that might signify you aren't charging enough". Clients never really think of that when they run their own programmes because they do not have the experience and wider perspective of many programmes to understand that the lack of complaints on a topic may be extremely significant. That is becasue they do not have the epxerience to know what is missing, only what is there. That one question has been the start of a very long-term relationship with some large international corporations where we mentored and helped tune them to a level where we felt that the feedback from customers was perfectly profit harmonised and optimised. An organisation that has a top-end product should have a percentage of their customers complaining about how expensive they are and if there isn't any then that might signify a significant problem. That is why I described the process in my last post as "as someone who earned a living understanding CS and how best to harvest loyal customers" because "harvesting" is an accurate description of the process.

 

CS isn't about making people happy because it is "the decent thing to do" but instead making people sufficently happy with things that are important to them for the lowest possible cost ie optimising resources and for the maximum charge you can safely extract. That is the magic of it and rarely understood by clients who think they are clever and can roll their own programmes.

 

SS have been really clever at employing ship-based people that make customers feel special and unique and important. Loyal SS customers feel genuine friendship for SS. However the relationship in return is purely platonic and a purely business relationship. It's just sad that it seems to me to be a mismatch of a failure of targetting resources on those things that are most important to customers that might actually be instrumental in making more profits.

[rojaan19]

No reply from Silversea with respect to our request to use the 40% future cruise credit on a currently booked cruise; not even an acknowledgement that they are reviewing our request. Therefore, we are cancelling our three booked cruises and looking for a cruise which costs no more than the size of the future cruise credit. That will be the end of our relationship with Silversea.

Marc

 

Marc, when our Explorer Honolulu to Easter Island cruise was cancelled by Silversea we were offered 25% off ANY cruise within 6 months. We already had two cruises booked at that stage and didnt want to do another, so told our TA to get the 25% off our Muse cruise in Feb 2019. We did not hear anything and our TA chased it up several times. The last reply was that it had to go to "Head Office in Monaco " for approval !!! Eventually we got our discount off the Muse cruise.

Currently we are thinking we will also be trying other cruising lines in the future.

[Bill B]

It seems SS's method of 'compensation' to pax for the line's failures is to force the pax to make another booking, spend more money and increase the line's profits. :rolleyes:

 

:confused: Does this seem 'backwards' to anyone else?

[jimdee3636]

I think there was an old nursery rhyme that went: "When she was good she was very very good, and when she was bad she was horrid." That seems to describe Silversea.

 

I've had three "very very good" experiences on Silversea, but the increasing likelihood of a "horrid" one is a concern. It's certainly true that bad things, even disasters of a human making, can and do happen in life. But when bad things aren't just isolated events but part of a pattern of mismanagement, I'm going to hang on to my money until I'm confident that management has gotten its act together.

[mrlevin]

It seems SS's method of 'compensation' to pax for the line's failures is to force the pax to make another booking, spend more money and increase the line's profits. :rolleyes:

 

:confused: Does this seem 'backwards' to anyone else?

 

It makes sense to me; after all, if you are NEVER going to sail Silversea again, why should they give you anything? The contract clearly states that they can substitute about anything. On the other hand, if they get you to go "one more time," they have a chance of winning back your business with a great experience replacing a bad one.

 

The one thing they are betting on is that none of us have a powerful "bully pulpit" that will substantially impact overall sales; I tend to agree with them that CC and like forums are not powerful enough to affect sales. Of course, when Oceania had a PR nightmare a number of years back and it went viral on CC Del Rio jumped in with flowing mea culpas; that is sort of what I was wishing for this time.

 

We did cancel our Silversea cruises and booked a great deal on a Canada/East Coast trip on Silver Cloud for just a bit over our credit. Our last cruise on Silversea unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat.

 

Marc

[PJSphotog]

"It makes sense to me; after all, if you are NEVER going to sail Silversea again, why should they give you anything?"

 

 

Marq, timing is everything. Having lost the customers, giving them something many see as insulting won't bring them back, at least not enough to be worth the effort. So, SS is offering a paltry credit to make it appear as if they care, looking to garner the marginal net that the credit will bring on that one last cruise. And then, on future cruises on other lines, any time someone mentions SS, those of us who were burned will be the voice of doom. "Have ever I told you how SS charged me 30K to play cards for three weeks?"

 

 

 

On the other hand, had they just fessed up "this was a disaster, we really dropped the ball," and given us our money back, they would have had most, if not all of us turning around and putting that money right into another SS cruise. Then, on future cruises we'd be telling everyone who would listen how absolutely fabulous SS was, and that we were going to cruise with them forever, and shouting that no-one else was even close to being good enough.

 

 

Which advertising would you rather have?

[cruiser 2001]

Of course, when Oceania had a PR nightmare a number of years back and it went viral on CC Del Rio jumped in with flowing mea culpas; that is sort of what I was wishing for this time.

 

Marc

I was sort of wishing that, too. We, also, cancelled our upcoming, and paid for, Silversea cruise, but have not yet looked at another. We're a bit fascinated at the language attached to the use of the credit. While it may be standard in these cases to require the user to give up all future legal rights, it just amazed (and amused) us at how far this one goes.

[UKCruiseJeff]

There are normally two stages to service recovery following a lapse.

 

Firstly you promptly resolve the original complaint issue with a genuine prompt apology and an appropriate replacement or full or partial refund and then you incentivise the customer to give you another chance to delight you by offering a suitable incentive towards a future purchase. Two stages, not one.

 

Silversea evidently feel that they needn’t bother at all with the first stage ie complaint resolution and therefore simply use a customer's complaint, loss, and disappointment as a marketing opportunity to earn more future cash. In that situation they tell the customer that they will do nothing to resolve the problem they caused and manage to make an already unacceptable response even worst. A customer rightly feels that they have been treated with contempt.

 

Only an idiot customer repeats the same behaviour following a disaster where his or her trust has been seriously breached, hoping for a different outcome and that is why it is a daft idea. This is because your most angry customers feel like they have been treated with contempt even more cheated than they did before, and wouldn’t dream of taking the offer and will tell others of their experience and treatment. They become extremely vocal complainers who wish you harm and will do anything to pay you back. Only those that weren’t so dissatisfied or angry enough to dump you use the credit against a future purchase that they would possibly or probably have taken anyway. In that case you have probably simply offered a discount when you needn’t have done.

 

So this approach is not the way that ethical and thoughtful people deal with complaints because it is clearly designed to lose you as many customers as you can whilst ensuring you hand out cash unnecessarily to those customers that you proabably needn’t have.

[mrlevin]

So, which state's Attorney General has been contacted? Which news station has been contacted? I just don't think they are going to get a lot bad press about this; it has been a month already and nothing; not even a single review on cruise critic.

 

So, their expedition leadership who should never have survived the Northwest Passage debacle will probably survive another disastrous cruise; unless someone here has an in to RCCL management that could get something done.

 

I have given up and cancelled all my cruises and let my fellow cruisers know I have cancelled all the cruises; about as much as I can do. I am not going to throw the $12K in the trash; I am going to get (I hope) a wonderful cruise for free.

 

Marc

[mitz18]

Hey all, sorry for the disaster. Was thinking of booking another SS cruise but now considering other options. For those of you who are serious about "leaving" SS, who would be your next option? Seabourn? Ritz? Other? Not wanted to start a comparison thread as there are already many of those. Just curious where your frustrations with SS may lead you. TIA

[cruiser 2001]

I just don't think they are going to get a lot bad press about this; it has been a month already and nothing; not even a single review on cruise critic.

Marc

 

I've been trying to post a review for over a week without success; cruise critic has told me there must be a "glitch." I just don't know if I want to keep trying.

[bissel]

Is the sale of the line completed yet? A question for those of you experienced with buying and selling a company, wouldn’t Silversea have to maintain their earlier performance and sales or risk the deal not going through?

[Daveywavey70]

I've been trying to post a review for over a week without success; cruise critic has told me there must be a "glitch." I just don't know if I want to keep trying.

 

I had the same when I tried to post a less than glowing review. It appeared not long after I sent them several emails enquiringly as to why it hadn’t appeared yet.

[Daveywavey70]

Is the sale of the line completed yet? A question for those of you experienced with buying and selling a company, wouldn’t Silversea have to maintain their earlier performance and sales or risk the deal not going through?

 

Yes it has Bessel, I doubt there was a clause for maintaining customer satisfaction though.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Is the sale of the line completed yet? A question for those of you experienced with buying and selling a company, wouldn’t Silversea have to maintain their earlier performance and sales or risk the deal not going through?

 

It may be that the purchase price value of the final slice depends on future performance over an agreed period. That implies both the management of a smooth transition and a profit target that would explain a degree of short-termism ie maximum revenue at any cost (Boozecruise and the premature release of Spirit and this current thread ...... ) and reducing all spend and expense to the bone.

 

Does the company show any sign of long-termism and a commitment to retain loyalty? ;)

[tgh]

Just a reminder that this Internet host exists to sell cruises, there is no margin for them to assist negative reviews however worthy.

Equally the "model" of saturating the lists with cheer leaders ameliorates doubt and talks up the imagery that sells cruises.

Brand damage takes a while to filter through , by which time many execs have their bonuses and a new job lined up.

In this corporate rise and fall scenario customers are have little influence.

[Jacko]

All, please add this story from Cruise Industry News to this thread. Although there is blame to go around, it appears that extreme unanticipated weather conditions were a significant contributing factor to the guests disappointment.

Also contributing to the situation was the attitude of local officials.

Our visit to Kolkata on the Discoverer last year was a disaster due to the greedy/argumentative attitude of customs/immigration officials. We've sailed on Silver Sea 3 times in Russian waters. Each time, the ship was a held hostage (denied clearance or fuel) by local officials until the captain payed a ransom of Vodka, cigarettes, and meals on board.

 

"Extremely challenging ice conditions in the Northwest Passage are disrupting high-yielding expedition voyages for two expedition cruise operators.

Ponant announced that due to the ice conditions, as well as a poor weather outlook, it is currently unable to sail through the Northwest Passage. Two ships, Le Boreal and Le Soleal, are altering their routes and will continue their expedition voyages to Kangerlussuaq (Greenland), which they will reach on September 10 and 18, respectively.

Hurtigruten is in a similar situation with the Fram.

“This year’s ice conditions in the area are proving to be quite different from previous years; the current conditions in the Victoria and James Ross Straits are such that unfortunately, no ordinary ship can sail through the area,” the company said, in a prepared statement.

“The Fram will therefore be unable to reach Cambridge Bay and the embarkation point for the voyage will be changed. We are currently exploring various new itinerary options and will confirm the new embarkation point as soon as possible. The charter flight from Montréal will be redirected to this new port.”

It is unclear how the itinerary changes will affect voyages as it will most likely leave ships out of position."

 

 

 

[Unibok]

I had the same when I tried to post a less than glowing review. It appeared not long after I sent them several emails enquiringly as to why it hadn’t appeared yet.

 

 

 

For what it’s worth, I tried to post a very positive review, and that didn’t show up either.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[drron29]

Silversea certainly haven't covered themselves with glory recently.It seem to me that the problems with the Explorer were ineptly handled.When did they know the hull needed strengthening to continue safe cold water cruising?They obviously knew before these Nome sailings hence the problems mainly caused by the need to avoid ice.

In retrospect it probably would have been better to cancel the August cruises-most on those have been upset anyway.But instead by cancelling the September cruises they have 2 groups of dissatisfied passengers.As the Papeete to Easter Island segment was booked out in 2 days from release that would have included a lot of dedicated SS cruisers.

Personally that cruise had been a bucket list dream from boyhood.As my mobility continues to decline it is extremely unlikely I will ever get to do it.Because of this we have certainly been looking at alternatives.At present Silversea is unlikely to get any future bookings apart from the 2 already paid for.

 

 

And in a great example of their CS Silversea sent my wife a survey for our Wind cruise in May.The survey though was addressed to me.When she asked what comments I would make I said just tell them I will be busy celebrating my last Silversea cruise.

[mrlevin]

Silversea's "Al Gore" mentality is past amusing. They scheduled our East Siberian Sea itinerary base on 2015 low ice year. If you look at the last 15 years the we would have gotten to Wrangel Island in just half those years. Same thing with our Northwest Passage in 2014 or the 2018 Northwest Passage tries; ice varies from year to year. We may be heading into a mini ice age where no Northwest (or Northeast) Passage itineraries will be successful.

 

Silversea needs to kick Al Gore off their staff and develop a "Plan B" for normal ice years.

 

Marc