Traveling with Children Covid Change!!!

[pyrateslife4me84]

4 minutes ago, topnole said:

You do realize there is zero need for a 3 year old to be fully vaccinated for a cruise, right?   Not sure I see the logic in a cruise requirement (that isn’t required) serving a variable in which vaccine to pick.  So I just thought I would mention that it isn’t required for a child of that age in case you didn’t know.  

Perhaps they just want their child vaccinated? If they plan to get the child vaccinated, why not do it in a way that dramatically reduces the testing requirement?

[topnole]

17 minutes ago, 2inpink said:

You’ll also have to have them take a rapid test at the port before boarding.  I was sent an email with a link to schedule an appointment before we board for my younger daughter. 

Good point.  The OP should make sure to get this part squared away to avoid any delays at the port.  Hopefully there will be an email now that the system shows them as unvaccinated.  

[ReneeFLL]

35 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

…And to the OP, your pediatrician really should have offered you your second shot at each visit.  This isn't entirely your fault.

 

I don’t know how the OP didn’t realize what fully vaccinated meant since it’s been all over the news, Royals site, etc., but I have to agree that the pediatrician should have mentioned the second shot. I would also have a long talk with the dr.

 

OP, hope you get this straightened out and everything goes smoothly.

[pyrateslife4me84]

21 minutes ago, topnole said:

Because there are differences in the vaccines and these are vaccines that just got emergency approval.  I sure as heck wouldn’t pick the type based on a cruise schedule that doesn’t even require them.  I don’t care what kid of vaccine it is.   I’d evaluate all of the trial data myself and make a decision based on that.  If one can’t do that or doesn’t have time, I’d imagine they would talk to their doctor about the pros and cons of each brand.  
 

Maybe I’m the crazy one here.  I don't know.  

Most people don’t actually review the hundreds of pages of data submissions to the CDC. They just take the available vaccine. Who even knows the brand of any vaccine they’ve received prior to Covid?

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, JMHappy said:

Let me clarify…the vaccine requirement was cleared with a green check mark on the app, now it is not.

To be fully vaccinated they need 2 doses/shots.  It has been this way for several months. 

If not fully vaccinated then check out walgreens for the proper covid test.

[ReneeFLL]

1 hour ago, pyrateslife4me84 said:

Most people don’t actually review the hundreds of pages of data submissions to the CDC. They just take the available vaccine. Who even knows the brand of any vaccine they’ve received prior to Covid?

I did. I wanted the Pfizer so I asked when I made the appointment, otherwise I was going to find it somewhere else instead of the dr office.

[topnole]

1 hour ago, pyrateslife4me84 said:

Most people don’t actually review the hundreds of pages of data submissions to the CDC. They just take the available vaccine. Who even knows the brand of any vaccine they’ve received prior to Covid?

Whoever got an emergency approval vaccination just a year after the virus was discovered?   Lots of things different about these vaccines.   I sure as heck did my homework before getting vaccinated last year.  Damn sure do it before putting it in my young child since they can’t consent themselves.  First of all, you don’t need to read 100s of pages.  Plenty of summaries available.  But if it required reading 100s I’d do it without question.   
 

Parents get tons of info on all the vaccines their kids get.  We get them every time for all the traditional vaccines.  Parents should absolutely educate themselves and know this stuff.  

[fpcruiser]

12 hours ago, pyrateslife4me84 said:

As far as I know, kids always needed 2 doses…

Correct!

 

[pyrateslife4me84]

10 hours ago, topnole said:

Whoever got an emergency approval vaccination just a year after the virus was discovered?   Lots of things different about these vaccines.   I sure as heck did my homework before getting vaccinated last year.  Damn sure do it before putting it in my young child since they can’t consent themselves.  First of all, you don’t need to read 100s of pages.  Plenty of summaries available.  But if it required reading 100s I’d do it without question.   
 

Parents get tons of info on all the vaccines their kids get.  We get them every time for all the traditional vaccines.  Parents should absolutely educate themselves and know this stuff.  

Actually, if you want to be as thorough as you are pretending to be, you do have to read those documents. Otherwise, you aren’t reviewing the data. You’re reading someone’s interpretation of the data. No need to give yourself a pat on the back for that. Anyone can do that. No need for condescension after doing a small amount of research. 
 

For the record, I did read all of the data and presented on them to faculty at the college where I work. These documents are not meant for public consumption. People should just trust their doctors. That’s why we have doctors. 
 

Every time you get a flu shot, you are getting a vaccine combination that was in development and testing for less than a year. So you really don’t know what you’re talking about. 

[topnole]

1 hour ago, pyrateslife4me84 said:

Actually, if you want to be as thorough as you are pretending to be, you do have to read those documents. Otherwise, you aren’t reviewing the data. You’re reading someone’s interpretation of the data. No need to give yourself a pat on the back for that. Anyone can do that. No need for condescension after doing a small amount of research. 
 

For the record, I did read all of the data and presented on them to faculty at the college where I work. These documents are not meant for public consumption. People should just trust their doctors. That’s why we have doctors. 
 

Every time you get a flu shot, you are getting a vaccine combination that was in development and testing for less than a year. So you really don’t know what you’re talking about. 

You have no idea what I did so your comment is a joke.  No need to pat myself on the back for something that is something I should be doing.  I don’t pat myself on the back for changing diapers,

reading to my kids every night, or protecting them from any major risks.  I just do it because it is normal parenting.  It is also normal parenting to know and understand the medical treatment you voluntarily subject your child to.  I didn’t need anyone at my university to present to me.   As a data scientist I did it myself.  
 

And for the record, I did suggest people either study up or talk to their doctor.  
 

But respectfully, you have no idea what you are taking about if you think more than a tiny percentage of practicing physicians have any ability to give you expert opinions on the vaccine results.  They have zero training in statistical methodology.  They are practitioners,

not scientists.  They are just parroting cliff notes they hear.  Very few of them do research or could come close to explaining methodology or scientific design.  They understand physiology really well and how to practice medicine, but they are not trained to do research and few could come close to being a qualified reviewer for one of these studies.  Heck, our pediatricians seemingly can’t do or recommend anything without plugging in the info in their IPad and getting a recommendation (and all of them from great medical schools).  They are almost robotic practitioners at this point with zero knowledge of the the scientific process we call research.  So frankly, I wouldn’t trust their views on new research that hasn’t been replicated or validated.  Older vaccines don’t have this issue.  
 

For myself, I’d much prefer to see the overall methodology including sample designs, alpha and power considerations, timeframes, statistic used for testing, etc. including any limitations.  I understand these far better than any MD I’ve ever met and the topic is irrelevant when you understand methodology.  Methodology is methodology regardless of the variables being studied.  

[JMHappy]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:42 PM, ReneeFLL said:

I don’t know how the OP didn’t realize what fully vaccinated meant since it’s been all over the news, Royals site, etc., but I have to agree that the pediatrician should have mentioned the second shot. I would also have a long talk with the dr.

 

OP, hope you get this straightened out and everything goes smoothly.

 

On 6/23/2022 at 1:15 PM, topnole said:

You have no idea what I did so your comment is a joke.  No need to pat myself on the back for something that is something I should be doing.  I don’t pat myself on the back for changing diapers,

reading to my kids every night, or protecting them from any major risks.  I just do it because it is normal parenting.  It is also normal parenting to know and understand the medical treatment you voluntarily subject your child to.  I didn’t need anyone at my university to present to me.   As a data scientist I did it myself.  
 

And for the record, I did suggest people either study up or talk to their doctor.  
 

But respectfully, you have no idea what you are taking about if you think more than a tiny percentage of practicing physicians have any ability to give you expert opinions on the vaccine results.  They have zero training in statistical methodology.  They are practitioners,

not scientists.  They are just parroting cliff notes they hear.  Very few of them do research or could come close to explaining methodology or scientific design.  They understand physiology really well and how to practice medicine, but they are not trained to do research and few could come close to being a qualified reviewer for one of these studies.  Heck, our pediatricians seemingly can’t do or recommend anything without plugging in the info in their IPad and getting a recommendation (and all of them from great medical schools).  They are almost robotic practitioners at this point with zero knowledge of the the scientific process we call research.  So frankly, I wouldn’t trust their views on new research that hasn’t been replicated or validated.  Older vaccines don’t have this issue.  
 

For myself, I’d much prefer to see the overall methodology including sample designs, alpha and power considerations, timeframes, statistic used for testing, etc. including any limitations.  I understand these far better than any MD I’ve ever met and the topic is irrelevant when you understand methodology.  Methodology is methodology regardless of the variables being studied.  

We now have both children negative with a PCR.  The window has closed to schedule for the dock side test.  Hopefully we will be able to board without issue.  Thanks for all the support!

 

[topnole]

59 minutes ago, JMHappy said:

 

We now have both children negative with a PCR.  The window has closed to schedule for the dock side test.  Hopefully we will be able to board without issue.  Thanks for all the support!

 

My guess is it will be a bit more of a hassle, but they will get you dockside tested.  I would certainly be calling Royal to try to figure it beforehand if possible (meaning call even now if you can or call in the morning).  I guess you will know soon enough either way.  
 

Also note you will need to schedule a test for them the last day or two of the cruise (each cruise is different).  Watch for that.  Might have been in the Royal app or it was Email.  Can’t recall.  I assume the app though.  That one was very fast and easy.  But you will want to book a time as soon as you can so you get one convenient for your schedule.  
 

Last piece of advice.  You are sure to be stressed tomorrow with boarding and then this extra testing you didn’t realize you needed.  Let it go and try to relax.  It will be hard to I’m sure, but don’t let that ruin day 1 or your trip.  You are annoyed by it I’m sure.  Process that now and go with the flow on day 1 so all the energy is positive.  Easier said than done I know, but in the grand scheme of things a slight delay is only that.  Don’t let it ruin other things.   Cheers and have a blast.  

[docsneeze]

On 6/23/2022 at 10:15 AM, topnole said:

You have no idea what I did so your comment is a joke.  No need to pat myself on the back for something that is something I should be doing.  I don’t pat myself on the back for changing diapers,

reading to my kids every night, or protecting them from any major risks.  I just do it because it is normal parenting.  It is also normal parenting to know and understand the medical treatment you voluntarily subject your child to.  I didn’t need anyone at my university to present to me.   As a data scientist I did it myself.  
 

And for the record, I did suggest people either study up or talk to their doctor.  
 

But respectfully, you have no idea what you are taking about if you think more than a tiny percentage of practicing physicians have any ability to give you expert opinions on the vaccine results.  They have zero training in statistical methodology.  They are practitioners,

not scientists.  They are just parroting cliff notes they hear.  Very few of them do research or could come close to explaining methodology or scientific design.  They understand physiology really well and how to practice medicine, but they are not trained to do research and few could come close to being a qualified reviewer for one of these studies.  Heck, our pediatricians seemingly can’t do or recommend anything without plugging in the info in their IPad and getting a recommendation (and all of them from great medical schools).  They are almost robotic practitioners at this point with zero knowledge of the the scientific process we call research.  So frankly, I wouldn’t trust their views on new research that hasn’t been replicated or validated.  Older vaccines don’t have this issue.  
 

For myself, I’d much prefer to see the overall methodology including sample designs, alpha and power considerations, timeframes, statistic used for testing, etc. including any limitations.  I understand these far better than any MD I’ve ever met and the topic is irrelevant when you understand methodology.  Methodology is methodology regardless of the variables being studied.  

      I would respectfully disagree with the "tiny percentage" part here as there has been an enormous amount of Covid information disseminated to doctors over the past few years, even when much of it in the early stages was "we don't have enough info yet...".  

 

     That being said, as a specialist I serve the pediatric community to keep them updated on the most recent data.  As a clinical researcher, we also try to communicate the key points involved with any of the ongoing vaccine trials, etc.  Many of us are not just practitioners.  But it is important to recognize that Covid-19 is a unique challenge with rapidly evolving mutations and the data can change daily.  Emphasis here is on communication so yes, talk to your doctor.  

 

     Most importantly, as a father, I completely understand the intensity of emotions when it comes to the well being of our children.  Ultimately, it is the parents' choice and we do our best to outline the alternatives.

[nelblu]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:31 PM, topnole said:

Good point.  The OP should make sure to get this part squared away to avoid any delays at the port.  Hopefully there will be an email now that the system shows them as unvaccinated.  

Link?  When we sailed with my unvaxxed granddaughter on Easter Anthem sail, it was part and parcel with your scheduled time to show up.  When showing documentation, we were guided to a separate line for registering for the test.  The registering of the unvaxxed took an awful lot of time.  Don't understand as the data was in their system when checked in on the APP.  There were some 7 medical technicians giving the antigen test, and after we were escorted to a waiting area, awaiting the test results.  Waited some 15 minutes and test result was relayed to my DIL phone.  At that time, we were finally allowed to board.

[MommaBear55]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:24 PM, JMHappy said:

I’m traveling with my children 10 & 11 and they have had their Covid vaccine (Pfizer in 11/21) We are leaving on June 25 on the Allure of the Seas.  I checked last week and they were cleared to board (awaiting the Rapid test with 48 hours).  Today I looked at the RCCL App and they were not clear (what changed?) HEADS UP!!!  The CDC changed the guidelines on June 19th that a fully vaccinated child requires 2 shots.  I called RCCL and they said children require a PCR test 3 days prior to sailing now, since they are no longer considered fully vaccinated!!! We sail on Saturday, it’s Wednesday night at 9….the best I can do is get a PCR tomorrow.  I’m struggling with this and want to share the information because lots of people are sailing with children.  I did not receive an email or call about this.  😞

 

In theory, they could have been vaccinated on the day the change was made (6/19) and still not been ok by 6/25 to travel by the new standard.

 

This is crazy, how many children/families will be denied at boarding.

The good news is that they are under 12 and they can still board. Get the PCR and have a great trip. 

[2inpink]

3 hours ago, nelblu said:

Link?  When we sailed with my unvaxxed granddaughter on Easter Anthem sail, it was part and parcel with your scheduled time to show up.  When showing documentation, we were guided to a separate line for registering for the test.  The registering of the unvaxxed took an awful lot of time.  Don't understand as the data was in their system when checked in on the APP.  There were some 7 medical technicians giving the antigen test, and after we were escorted to a waiting area, awaiting the test results.  Waited some 15 minutes and test result was relayed to my DIL phone.  At that time, we were finally allowed to board.

I was emailed a link from RCCL to register my younger daughter and it had a reference ID that has to be entered with it.  When I clicked the link her information was already there.  Hopefully it’s not too long of a process when we board having her tested that morning!

[broadwaybaby123]

Not trying to be rude, but Pfizer, which is the only one that's been given clearance for children, has ALWAYS needed 2 shots for every age group since 2020.  That app you had that says they were cleared is wrong.

[MommaBear55]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:15 PM, topnole said:

You have no idea what I did so your comment is a joke.  No need to pat myself on the back for something that is something I should be doing.  I don’t pat myself on the back for changing diapers,

reading to my kids every night, or protecting them from any major risks.  I just do it because it is normal parenting.  It is also normal parenting to know and understand the medical treatment you voluntarily subject your child to.  I didn’t need anyone at my university to present to me.   As a data scientist I did it myself.  
 

And for the record, I did suggest people either study up or talk to their doctor.  
 

But respectfully, you have no idea what you are taking about if you think more than a tiny percentage of practicing physicians have any ability to give you expert opinions on the vaccine results.  They have zero training in statistical methodology.  They are practitioners,

not scientists.  They are just parroting cliff notes they hear.  Very few of them do research or could come close to explaining methodology or scientific design.  They understand physiology really well and how to practice medicine, but they are not trained to do research and few could come close to being a qualified reviewer for one of these studies.  Heck, our pediatricians seemingly can’t do or recommend anything without plugging in the info in their IPad and getting a recommendation (and all of them from great medical schools).  They are almost robotic practitioners at this point with zero knowledge of the the scientific process we call research.  So frankly, I wouldn’t trust their views on new research that hasn’t been replicated or validated.  Older vaccines don’t have this issue.  
 

For myself, I’d much prefer to see the overall methodology including sample designs, alpha and power considerations, timeframes, statistic used for testing, etc. including any limitations.  I understand these far better than any MD I’ve ever met and the topic is irrelevant when you understand methodology.  Methodology is methodology regardless of the variables being studied.  

Not sure what practitioners you know who don't understand research. I took a full course in statistics, then took a course on research methodology and interpretation. It was mandatory in my program, as was a semester of epidemiology.

 

 

[nelblu]

3 hours ago, 2inpink said:

I was emailed a link from RCCL to register my younger daughter and it had a reference ID that has to be entered with it.  When I clicked the link her information was already there.  Hopefully it’s not too long of a process when we board having her tested that morning!

We had a time of 11 AM check in.  We were grouped with the 11:30 and the 12 PM groups.  It seemed like an eternity for my grandchild to be registered for her test.  She was a bit skittish, but when we pointed out a priest taking the test, she was assuaged.  The testing was pretty quick.  The entire process took 1:15 minutes from the initial line to getting on the ship.  

 

The ship's capacity was at 80% with some 1,200 children.

[topnole]

2 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

Not sure what practitioners you know who don't understand research. I took a full course in statistics, then took a course on research methodology and interpretation. It was mandatory in my program, as was a semester of epidemiology.

 

 

A full course on statistics.   Lol. 

[MommaBear55]

7 hours ago, topnole said:

A full course on statistics.   Lol. 

It certainly didn't make us statisticians, but it did make us qualified to understand research and research validity. 

[topnole]

13 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

It certainly didn't make us statisticians, but it did make us qualified to understand research and research validity. 

At a basic level, perhaps?   But to read a study and critically review the methodology?   I’ve got a lot of money that says I could provide 50 practicing MDs an empirical section of a study with an easy fatal flaw or two and none of them would know what it is.  This doesn’t even get at the more nuanced, important and, common consideration of  methodological limitations that exist in every study.  
 

I know some MD/PhDs and they obviously understand research and typically publish and serve on editorial review boards.  But that’s not what MDs are trained to do.  They are practitioners, not scientists.  MDs don’t takes 9, 10, etc (or whatever the number for a given program) doctoral seminars in methodology.  They don’t develop theory, design studies, collect data, and write research papers in nearly all of their classes. They spend 2-3 years collecting data and writing dissertations that likely end up being published in top rated journals in subsequent years.  
 

This is not a knock on practicing doctors.   I respect the heck out of many doctors.  It is just the reality that they do what they are trained to do and that is practice medicine.   They aren’t trained to do research, and if you aren’t trained to do research, no way you can critically evaluate it.  
 

One question too.   Where do pediatricians and GPs normally fall on the exam taken to pick specialty areas?   I know it can vary, but on average aren’t the top students normally picking radiology, etc.?   So where do GPs and pediatricians fall?   That is who most would be asking questions to right?   You certainly don’t see a radiologist to ask about a Covid vaccine.  
 

 

[topnole]

On 6/25/2022 at 2:27 AM, docsneeze said:

      I would respectfully disagree with the "tiny percentage" part here as there has been an enormous amount of Covid information disseminated to doctors over the past few years, even when much of it in the early stages was "we don't have enough info yet...".  

 

     That being said, as a specialist I serve the pediatric community to keep them updated on the most recent data.  As a clinical researcher, we also try to communicate the key points involved with any of the ongoing vaccine trials, etc.  Many of us are not just practitioners.  But it is important to recognize that Covid-19 is a unique challenge with rapidly evolving mutations and the data can change daily.  Emphasis here is on communication so yes, talk to your doctor.  

 

     Most importantly, as a father, I completely understand the intensity of emotions when it comes to the well being of our children.  Ultimately, it is the parents' choice and we do our best to outline the alternatives.

Of course they have been given a ton of information.  But that is all filtered and doesn’t involve the finer details of the studies such as getting down into the weeds on study design, etc.  Few if any of these doctors could give you an honest answer about the strengths and weaknesses of the methods used in any study let alone the trials.  Sorry, but med

schools don’t teach anything close to the level needed to do that.  It’s just a reality.  I don’t get why any MD is trying to argue otherwise.  Taking a law class or two in college doesn’t prepare one to be a lawyer.  Taking a couple accounting classes doesn’t prepare one to be an accounting.  Taking a stats class or two doesn’t come close to teaching one how to evaluate scientific studies.  PhD programs do that and they take years of full time study to complete.  That is like me using web MD to diagnose my kid.  Yeah sometimes it works, but it can be a very dangerous practice.  
 

Obviously practitioners do know physiology.  And asking them about what  the vaccines actually do is right up their wheel house.  This is where they can be an invaluable source.   But even still, in my experience, some can’t really explain it very well (which was surprising).  

 

I’ve asked every doctor I’ve been to about the vaccine because I like a variety of opinions on anything.  I’ve been to several over the past two years due to some injuries.  The variance in opinions among my doctors is pretty amazing (and every single one of them from highly regarded med schools).   Interestingly the majority lean in a way most wouldn’t expect.  Several provided me incredibly detailed explanation of what happens in your body.  Others were clearly just repeating buzz words (GP and pediatrician were in this group) and either forgot a lot of basics since med school or are too busy to care to give a meaningful response.  A few of the specialists seemed far more knowledgeable about it with two of those having very opposite opinions about the vaccines let alone vaccines for young kids or babies.  
 

Point is, the ask your doctor part can work well to understand what the vaccines do in your body.  But even still many doctors either don’t have the time or inclination to explain it beyond what can be read in the popular press.  So the value isn’t always that great.  And they certainly can’t provide you an expert opinion on the trials from a methods perspective.  Maybe a few here and there that studying methods well beyond normal med school curriculum, but that is a small number of doctors relatively speaking.