Denali or Rocky Mountaineer?

[babs135]

Much as I would like to do both I have to think of the cost so which would you choose and why? Would we as senior citizens with some mobility issues find Denali too much?

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, babs135 said:

Much as I would like to do both I have to think of the cost so which would you choose and why? Would we as senior citizens with some mobility issues find Denali too much?

Can't comment on Denali, as all my trips to Alaska, I was either working, or cruising R/T from Vancouver to Whittier.

 

However, if you opt for the Rocky Mountaineer, may I suggest also checking out local options, such as hiring a car or a small motorhome. The Rocky Mountaineer is prohibitively expensive and comes as a fixed package. With a car or small motorhome, you can see more of the Rockies and continue through to Calgary, flying home from there.

 

Even with a small motorhome, the mountain driving is easy, as I have completed many thousands of miles with our F-350/450 dually and a 41' trailer. The small motorhomes are built on the same chassis as my truck, so not that big.

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

The Rocky Mountaineer is prohibitively expensive and comes as a fixed package.

I would characterize the train services provided by Rocky Mountaineer as unduly expensive, rather than prohibitively expensive, though this might be a matter of semantics. There are actually three train services offered by Rocky Mountaineer in Canada (with additional service in the United States), each of which operates during the daytime and provides hotel accommodation at night. Two of the routes involve two days travel and one overnight, while one route involves three days travel and two overnights. Travel on each train can be purchased as "rail only" (though inclusive of the hotel accommodation) between the endpoints of Vancouver and either Banff or Jasper, or can be purchased as part of a package that includes additional non-rail features. Fare includes passage on modern or modernized railcar, including all services. The service might be compared to Via Rail Canada, which operates a single train over one of the same routes as Rocky Mountaineer; the Via Rail uses classic 1950s railcars, travels 24 hours daily (no hotel overnights), so some scenery is missed during night time travel, a lower, but certainly sufficient and comfortable, level of service, and generally lower fares. A Rocky Mountaineer trip might include a stay in Banff National Park (at Banff, Lake Louise, and/or Jasper), either as part of a package or purchased separately, and certainly the park is spectacular.

 

"Denali," I assume, means travel to and from the American national park by railroad. Similarly, there are choices among operators of trains to the park, with Holland America-Princess and Wilderness Express both offering modern cars very similar to those offered by Rocky Mountaineer, and Alaska Railroad offering both cars similar to those offered by both Rocky Mountaineer and Via Rail Canada. Generally, the lowest fares would be offered by Alaska Railroad. All travel is daytime only, and any overnights one may have would be at a hotel. Again, service might be "rail only" or purchased with a package that includes additional services. The scenery again is spectacular, though distinct from that in the Rocky Mountains.

 

Of course, both Banff National Park and Denali National Park can be reached by means other than railroad. There are bus services to both (use Rider Express to Banff, eBus to Jasper, or Park Connection to Denali); and as has been suggested, one could travel by rental vehicle, car or motorhome, if you're capable of driving yourselves.

 

Both trips, Rocky Mountaineer and Denali, can be adventurous or sedate. All trains are accessible to persons with disabilities, though Via Rail Canada would pose some limitations to wheelchair users given the age and design of their cars. Persons with mobility issues would get significant enjoyment from all options. It is difficult to prioritize one set of choices over the other. One factor that might be considered is that the Denali trip is a bit more remote than the Rocky Mountaineer trip, so if there is the possibility of returning to North America at some later date, it could easier scheduling in a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer service at that later date (i.e., go to Denali on this trip, as it would be more challenging to schedule on a subsequent trip to North America).

[oaktreerb]

Are you planning this as a part of a larger trip?  Denali  is frequently partnered with an Alaska cruise and as such would not be too difficult with just two nights in a Denali hotel and an excursion into the park on a narrated school bus.  The accommodations are a bit rustic.  On a cruise tour your luggage will be handled for you.  

 

As senior citizens with some mobility issues you would probably enjoy the Rocky Mountaineer with the hotel accommodations along the route.  The scenery is beautiful and if you choose an escorted trip all of your luggage will be handled for you.  There are several levels of service. 

[don't-use-real-name]

I believe that Holland-America and RockyMountaineer have some cruise-rail-tour

packages centering on Vancouver as the cruise port.

Tours in Alaska while they do use the Alaska RR as one of the methods of 

coordinated travel between points - it is not on same caliber as the Rocky Mountaineer.

 

As a railroad buff both the Alaska RR and RM operate some of the most fantastic

bi-level railway cars designed just for day time site seeing and creature comfort (meals etc.)

[oaktreerb]

Holland America has very nice railcars between the cruise port and Denali and on to Fairbanks.  Dome cars, narrated journey, dining car with excellent food.  

 

I have not seen a Holland relationship with the Rocky Mountaineer, that is another cruise line, I believe.

Friends of mine who are seniors (70’s) did the Rocky Mountaineer last year with the hotel overnights.  They enjoyed it.  They took the more expensive package. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by oaktreerb

[GTJ]

9 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

Holland America has very nice railcars between the cruise port and Denali and on to Fairbanks. Dome cars, narrated journey, dining car with excellent food. I have not seen a Holland relationship with the Rocky Mountaineer, that is another cruise line, I believe.

The railcars owned by Holland America Princess, Ultra Dome bilevel cars manufactured by Colorado Railcar, are also owned by other railroads as well for their first class services, viz. Alaska Railroad, Wilderness Express, and Rocky Mountaineer. There are, of course, some differences in each configuration, and in the case of Rocky Mountaineer it has received some newer versions of these Ultra Dome cars manufactured by Stadler Rail. But there's not a lot of difference, and most likely not enough difference in their configurations upon which to decide between either Denali or the Rocky Mountains.

 

It should also be noted that while the Ultra Dome cars owned by Holland America Princess do operate between the port (in Whittier) and Fairbanks, they only carry passengers as far as Denali, and deadhead without passengers between Denali and Fairbanks. Ultra Dome cars are operated to Fairbanks in revenue passenger service only by Alaska Railroad and Wilderness Express, but originate, at their southern end, at Anchorage, not at any cruise line port.

 

Another note: Rocky Mountaineer is not a cruise line, but is exclusively a railroad. Cruise lines have various marketing agreements with railroads, including Rocky Mountaineer, and may sell their tickets as part of a package, but they are separate. Even if a particular cruise line does not have a marketing agreement, passengers can, of course, make their own railroad arrangements. Only in the case of Holland America Princess do the cruise lines have actual, albeit indirect, ownership of the railcars. Both Holland America Line and Princess Cruises are corporate subsidiaries of Carnival Corporation, the latter also being the owner of the Ultra Dome railcars operating between Whittier, Denali, and intermediate points.

[babs135]

Thanks everyone for your comprehensive replies. Yes, it will be paired with a cruise but as we are looking at 2024 we still have time to make a decision.  Leaning towards the Rocky Mountaineer, although I quite like the idea of a self-drive.  Do these come with directions and pre-booked hotels? We've done a self-drive in Australia and it was great to have hotels organised. After a long (ish) drive the last thing I'd want to do is search for a hotel.

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, babs135 said:

I quite like the idea of a self-drive [through the Canadian Rockies]. Do these come with directions and pre-booked hotels? We've done a self-drive in Australia and it was great to have hotels organised. After a long (ish) drive the last thing I'd want to do is search for a hotel.

While there may be some pre-arranged self-drive packages available. my impression is that most persons doing so utilize a one-way vehicle rental plus hotels that they, or their travel agents, have booked in advance. The practice of searching for a hotel on the day of travel has largely disappeared in North America, though it has not completely disappeared. In particular, the practice is good when one does not know in advance how far one might travel, particularly if one might be spontaneous in stopping along the way. As to directions, they are simple: From Vancouver, travel the Trans Canada Highway eastward to Calgary (or vice versa westbound). Might it be that you're seeking a guidebook that also points out various points-of-interest along the way, identifying their locations and, if need be, directions off, and back onto, the TCH?

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, babs135 said:

Thanks everyone for your comprehensive replies. Yes, it will be paired with a cruise but as we are looking at 2024 we still have time to make a decision.  Leaning towards the Rocky Mountaineer, although I quite like the idea of a self-drive.  Do these come with directions and pre-booked hotels? We've done a self-drive in Australia and it was great to have hotels organised. After a long (ish) drive the last thing I'd want to do is search for a hotel.

 

If the self-drive option is of interest, rather than finding a complete package, which similar to the Rocky Mountaineer, restricts you to their schedule, I suggest picking up a 1-way car hire and planning your own route through the Rockies, at your schedule. Many of the car hires will rent you a GPS, if it isn't built into the car.

 

The previous reply suggested taking the Trans-Canada, which runs from Vancouver to Calgary, a distance of 600 miles. As a local, unless you want to complete it in 1 or 2 days, this isn't great advice, as I suggest avoiding most of the Trans-Canada, enjoying more scenic roads.

 

From Vancouver, rather than taking the motorway (Trans-Canada), take Hwy 7, through Maple Ridge, Mission, stopping at Harrison Hot Springs. They have a very nice hotel, if you only want to travel a short distance. Continue on Hwy 7 to Hope, then pick up Hwy 3 (Hope-Princeton). Goes through a Provincial Park and a couple of towns. It's worth a short stop in Keremeos to check out the fruit stands. Suggest looking for a hotel in Osoyoos or Oliver, which are at the bottom of the Okanagan, BC's premier wine region. If you enjoy wine, you can easily spend a few days in the Okanagan, up to Kelowna. I would probably stay a night in Kelowna.

 

From Kelowna, you can head North to the Trans-Canada, but I'll suggest crossing the lake and heading back south to Hwy 3, through Grand Forks and Christina Lake to Castelgar, where you can find another hotel. Rather than staying on Hwy 3, Hwy 3A via Nelson is another option, which crosses Kooteney Lake on a free ferry, then down to Creston, where you could find another hotel.

 

From Creston, my next stop would be Fairmont Hot Spring/Radium Hot Springs, where another hotel stop is available. Check out the hot springs.

 

You next stops could be Lake Louise, then Banff and then follow the Trans-Canada to Calgary. If you have the time, you can also drive up to Jasper National Park, which is about 150 miles north of Lake Louise. 

 

While this route has more distance than the direct drive to Calgary, each day is only 100 to 200 miles.

 

We drove to Manitoba last summer, without taking the caravan, so we pre-booked hotels,  with daily drives on 400 - 500 miles.

 

[cruiseryyc]

5 hours ago, babs135 said:

Thanks everyone for your comprehensive replies. Yes, it will be paired with a cruise but as we are looking at 2024 we still have time to make a decision.  Leaning towards the Rocky Mountaineer, although I quite like the idea of a self-drive.  Do these come with directions and pre-booked hotels? We've done a self-drive in Australia and it was great to have hotels organised. After a long (ish) drive the last thing I'd want to do is search for a hotel.

If you decide on the self-drive (best option) then I suggest you go over to Trip Advisor as there is lots of information and very helpful folks to get your planning underway.  

[martincath]

8 hours ago, babs135 said:

... Leaning towards the Rocky Mountaineer, although I quite like the idea of a self-drive.  ...

If you're willing to drive but could afford an RM ride, then I'd say you have the very realistic option of doing something involving Denali AND a self-drive - and still saving money! RMs pricing is not remotely cheap - if you have the time to spend, you could easily enjoy two or three times more days of travel by arranging it yourself, assuming you can spare the time for such an extended trip.

 

Andy's suggested routing is a great starting point; for more relevant replies about a road-trip (or indeed coach or rail travel) the suggestion to take this over to TripAdvisor is also sensible. Distances are vast here compared to UK driving - but if you've already driven around Oz, you'll be able to handle the scale, so it's just the whole 'wrong side of the road' thing which really doesn't have that much of an impact since everything on the car is the wrong way round too except the pedals (and manual cars are an endangered species here, so one less pedal and almost no gear changing needed at all except when starting up or parking). Even right up in the mountains the standards for road lane width and maximum grade, frequency of passing lanes, wide curves are sooooo much more generous than in Blighty - if you've driven around the Yorkshire Dales, Lake District, Highlands etc. then driving over here is like playing 10 pin bowls with the inflatable bumpers in place or training wheels on a bike! Just avoid any shortcuts on logging roads, gravel etc. unless you're renting a proper 4x4...

 

You can buy packaged 'car and hotel' trips - but any savings that these companies get from block bookings are rarely passed along, plus they have their own profit margins, and the distances/number of nights in location X rarely match up well unless your tastes run smack dab in the middle of Joe McAverageTourists. We've looked at these ourselves many times and always ended up just booking independently - we wanted more time here, less time there, a hotel in the middle of town instead of out on the highway for places with lots to see.

[GTJ]

4 hours ago, martincath said:

RMs pricing is not remotely cheap

Both Rocky Mountaineer and Via Rail Canada are overpriced, though not necessarily unaffordable. To make it more concrete, here is some full fare pricing for summer 2023 for two persons traveling together. One-way between Vancouver and Jasper or Banff, via Rocky Mountaineer, inclusive of one-night hotel in Kamloops, is CAD 2856 Silverleaf service, CAD 3866 Goldleaf service. One-way between Vancouver and Jasper, via Via Rail Canada, is CAD 3194 full fare with bedroom, CAD 2096 discounted fare with bedroom, CAD 1959 full fare with section, CAD 1287 discounted fare with section, CAD 610 full fare coach, CAD 384 mid-discount coach, CAD 342 lowest fare coach. One-way between Vancouver and Jasper, via eBus, is CAD 363 coach plus separate cost of one-night hotel in Kamloops. One-way between Vancouver and Banff, via Rider Express, is CAD 324, one day journey no hotel required.

[babs135]

Once again thank you for all your help and advice. Lots to think about. We've driven in the USA and Europe  so are familiar with driving on the 'wrong side'.