Old vs New Locks

[bclay]

Looking at a Panama Canal cruise in January 2024 and having a hard time getting a definitive answer or whether these ships use the old or new locks.  Can anyone help me with:  Norwegian Gem, Celebrity Constellation, Holland America Rotterdam and Ruby Princess.  Thank you!

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, bclay said:

Looking at a Panama Canal cruise in January 2024 and having a hard time getting a definitive answer or whether these ships use the old or new locks.  Can anyone help me with:  Norwegian Gem, Celebrity Constellation, Holland America Rotterdam and Ruby Princess.  Thank you!

There's a thread pinned to the top of this board that lists the ships that can use the original locks, known as Panamax ships. Of the ships on your list, Norwegian Gem and Celebrity Constellation qualify.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by njhorseman

[Cruise till you drop]

The partial transit is the old locks.  I think the full transit uses both new and old locks

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Cruise till you drop said:

The partial transit is the old locks.  I think the full transit uses both new and old locks

No, that's incorrect on both counts.

 

NeoPanamax ships use the new locks for their entire transit, whether partial or full. On a partial transit they use Agua Clara locks and on a full transit the Agua Clara and Cocoli locks.

 

Panamax ships use the original locks, Gatun, Pedro Miguel and Miraflores, for their entire transit, whether partial or full.

 

Once in  a great while...presumably only if there's an operational problem with the original locks...a Panamax ship may use the new locks, but that is an unusual exception to normal procedure. A NeoPanamax ship has no choice but to use the new locks.

[Cruise till you drop]

7 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No, that's incorrect on both counts.

 

NeoPanamax ships use the new locks for their entire transit, whether partial or full. On a partial transit they use Agua Clara locks and on a full transit the Agua Clara and Cocoli locks.

 

Panamax ships use the original locks, Gatun, Pedro Miguel and Miraflores, for their entire transit, whether partial or full.

 

Once in  a great while...presumably only if there's an operational problem with the original locks...a Panamax ship may use the new locks, but that is an unusual exception to normal procedure. A NeoPanamax ship has no choice but to use the new locks.

Interesting. We were on Celebrity and used the old locks for the partial to Gatum lake

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Cruise till you drop

[njhorseman]

6 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Interesting. We were on Celebrity and used the old locks for the partial to Gatum lake

Which ship? Summit, Infinity, Constellation and Millennium are all Panamax ships, so they can and will use the original locks.

Edited February 5, 2023 by njhorseman

[Cruise till you drop]

27 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

No, that's incorrect on both counts.

 

NeoPanamax ships use the new locks for their entire transit, whether partial or full. On a partial transit they use Agua Clara locks and on a full transit the Agua Clara and Cocoli locks.

 

Panamax ships use the original locks, Gatun, Pedro Miguel and Miraflores, for their entire transit, whether partial or full.

 

Once in  a great while...presumably only if there's an operational problem with the original locks...a Panamax ship may use the new locks, but that is an unusual exception to normal procedure. A NeoPanamax ship has no choice but to use the new locks.

Our friends also just got back from a cruise on NCL Jewel and said they used the old locks

[CruiserBruce]

17 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Our friends also just got back from a cruise on NCL Jewel and said they used the old locks

If the ship fits the old locks, most,  but not 100% of the time, will use the old locks. If the ship is too big, it MUST use the new locks.

[Cruise till you drop]

5 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

If the ship fits the old locks, most,  but not 100% of the time, will use the old locks. If the ship is too big, it MUST use the new locks.

Thanks for not saying I was incorrect and clarifying the true condition 

[njhorseman]

27 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Our friends also just got back from a cruise on NCL Jewel and said they used the old locks

Of course they did. The NCL Jewel is a Panamax ship so it normally uses the original locks.

[njhorseman]

3 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Thanks for not saying I was incorrect and clarifying the true condition 

I don't want to beat you up on this subject, but your first post was wrong when you said a partial transit uses the old locks.  A NeoPanamax ship can't use the old locks whether it's doing a partial transit or a full transit.  

 

I also explained in the last paragraph of my first reply to you that a Panamax ship would only use the new locks under unusual circumstances. 

[Cruise till you drop]

17 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I don't want to beat you up on this subject, but your first post was wrong when you said a partial transit uses the old locks.  A NeoPanamax ship can't use the old locks whether it's doing a partial transit or a full transit.  

 

I also explained in the last paragraph of my first reply to you that a Panamax ship would only use the new locks under unusual circumstances. 

was I incorrect or partially correct ?

 

just making sure we’re treating each other with a little respect is all

 

PS - I have no idea what you mean by NeoPanamax (not sure what language that is)

Edited February 5, 2023 by Cruise till you drop

[BillB48]

24 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

 

PS - I have no idea what you mean by NeoPanamax (not sure what language that is)

 

That's PanCanalese or Panama Canal Speak😁.  A Panamax ship ship is a ship that has dimensions that permit it to pass through the original locks of the Canal.  A NeoPanamax is the "new" maximum sized ship that must use the new locks which were completed in 2016.  Often times many people just refer to the locks as original or old locks and the larger locks as the "new" locks.  The Canal generally refers to the different set of locks as Panamax Locks or Neo Panamax Locks.

[njhorseman]

37 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

was I incorrect or partially correct ?

 

just making sure we’re treating each other with a little respect is all

 

PS - I have no idea what you mean by NeoPanamax (not sure what language that is)

 I interpreted your second sentence "I think the full transit uses both new and old locks" to mean that you thought any individual ship uses both sets of locks on a full transit, which would be wrong. I interpreted it that way because of your first sentence stating that a partial transit uses the old locks, which was wrong.

 

If your second sentence meant that a full transit could use both sets of locks then technically you would be correct, subject to your understanding that a NeoPanamax ship can only use the new locks, while a Panamax ship can use either, although their use of the new locks is extremely rare .

 

As to a little respect, you didn't give me the respect of answering my question about which Celebrity ship you were on. I assume that means I was correct about your being on one of the Millennium-class ships.

 

[Cruise till you drop]

31 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

 

That's PanCanalese or Panama Canal Speak😁.  A Panamax ship ship is a ship that has dimensions that permit it to pass through the original locks of the Canal.  A NeoPanamax is the "new" maximum sized ship that must use the new locks which were completed in 2016.  Often times many people just refer to the locks as original or old locks and the larger locks as the "new" locks.  The Canal generally refers to the different set of locks as Panamax Locks or Neo Panamax Locks.

Thanks for clarifying

[hubofhockey]

Is there any advantage to going on the smaller ships like Azamara or Oceania vs the M Class on Celebrity?  I do see that Celebrity will be sending the Beyond in 2024 and that’s probably a non-starter for us.  Thanks.  Looking right now at Azamara Journey 10-day from Miami to Panama City and it does the three old locks.  It includes ABC islands and an overnight in Cartagena, Columbia.

[BillB48]

As long as the M class ships are the Millennium sized ships which can use the original locks, there would be no advantage to either size ships (the Azamara being a little smaller), just what ever you prefer size wise.  The only other factor is what itinerary are you most satisfied with.  If this is your first transit of the Panama Canal, I think the original locks are more rewarding and would be my first choice.

[hubofhockey]

4 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

As long as the M class ships are the Millennium sized ships which can use the original locks, there would be no advantage to either size ships (the Azamara being a little smaller), just what ever you prefer size wise.  The only other factor is what itinerary are you most satisfied with.  If this is your first transit of the Panama Canal, I think the original locks are more rewarding and would be my first choice.

Thanks, both lines are great for us, so probably just booking Azamara for the itinerary.

[Momma Rene]

Are the old locks more interesting/better than the new ones?  It will be our first time doing the Panama Canal

[Essiesmom]

To most of us, yes.  Much more history, more activity going on.  EM

[BillB48]

Add my yes to that as well.  For the reasons EM stated, particularly more activity in and around the locks.  There is visual interest not only in your lane at the locks but also you can view the operation in the other lane.  Whereas the new locks is just a single lane.

[Curious_Cruiser8]

Question for the initiated. I'm taking a full transit via the Silversea ship, Silver Ray. She's the sister ship to the Silver Nova. I've been told by Siversea that as of right now, the canal authorities have said we'll transit via the new locks. The Nova recently went through the original locks. 

 

My question is, is that normal for the canal authorities to send a Panamex sized ship through the new locks vs the original ones? Do they ever reverse that decision? I'm not sailing until Jan 2025 but I'll want to cancel and get a refund by July this year if in fact we're going through the new locks. 

[BillB48]

To answer your question first, it is not regular practice to send a Panamax ship through the new locks instead of the original locks.  While it has been done in the past for non passenger ships for Canal convenience it is rarely done with a passenger ship.  In fact it has been done only once as far as I know and there was a laundry list of special considerations for that particular transit.

 

From looking at the sister ship Silver Nova I see nothing in her dimensions that would require the Nova or the Ray to use the new locks.  In fact the dimensions do not really push the limits of a Panamax ship.  There is one caveat to that statement however, in my search to find info on the Ray I came across a statement promoting their "asymmetrical design".  To be honest, I have no idea what that means.  From the pictures I ran across of the two ships it doesn't appear to involve the shape of the hull that would require some sort special handling that could be provided at the new locks.  Perhaps as I suspect it may have to do with the interior design,  but I really don't know.

 

The only other possibility is the vessel operators want the ship to use the new locks for some reason and have requested to use the new locks.  While the Ray would pay a premium to transit the new locks, the tolls still would not be as high as the Canal would be able to charge a neo Panamax ship which normally have deeper pockets.

 

Not knowing how authoritative the information you received I am a little suspicious as to the accuracy of which locks the Silver Ray will use.  Often times the people who are on the customer service end don't always have the most accurate info.  I completely understand your concerns and preferences to use the original locks.  

[Curious_Cruiser8]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:45 AM, BillB48 said:

To answer your question first, it is not regular practice to send a Panamax ship through the new locks instead of the original locks.  While it has been done in the past for non passenger ships for Canal convenience it is rarely done with a passenger ship.  In fact it has been done only once as far as I know and there was a laundry list of special considerations for that particular transit.

 

From looking at the sister ship Silver Nova I see nothing in her dimensions that would require the Nova or the Ray to use the new locks.  In fact the dimensions do not really push the limits of a Panamax ship.  There is one caveat to that statement however, in my search to find info on the Ray I came across a statement promoting their "asymmetrical design".  To be honest, I have no idea what that means.  From the pictures I ran across of the two ships it doesn't appear to involve the shape of the hull that would require some sort special handling that could be provided at the new locks.  Perhaps as I suspect it may have to do with the interior design,  but I really don't know.

 

The only other possibility is the vessel operators want the ship to use the new locks for some reason and have requested to use the new locks.  While the Ray would pay a premium to transit the new locks, the tolls still would not be as high as the Canal would be able to charge a neo Panamax ship which normally have deeper pockets.

 

Not knowing how authoritative the information you received I am a little suspicious as to the accuracy of which locks the Silver Ray will use.  Often times the people who are on the customer service end don't always have the most accurate info.  I completely understand your concerns and preferences to use the original locks.  

"Not knowing how authoritative the information you received I am a little suspicious as to the accuracy of which locks the Silver Ray will use. Often times the people who are on the customer service end don't always have the most accurate info. I completely understand your concerns and preferences to use the original locks."  

 

Thank you for the reply! I heard from two different sources at Silversea that said the canal authorities have designated them to transit via the new locks. I don't know any better so took that at face value. The Nova has transited a few times now and used the original locks each time. Thus, I know the Ray will be fine in the original locks. 

 

No one at Siversea will tell me whether the canal authorities have ever designated the new locks for any of their ships before and if so, the % of times they changed their minds. 

 

I'm now wondering if Silversea just hedges and says they use the new locks just in case they have to? 

 

By the way, the asymmetrical design means they put the common areas to the sides vs middle of the ship. So the pool is off to one side where everyone faces it and the sea vs sitting around a pool in the middle. The theater is also along one side and has two floors of windows. Same with many of the restaurants. 

[njhorseman]

17 minutes ago, Curious_Cruiser8 said:

 

Thank you for the reply! I heard from two different sources at Silversea that said the canal authorities have designated them to transit via the new locks

A couple of months ago someone on an upcoming Oceania cruise was told by sources at Oceania that their ship would be transiting the new locks. I told them what @BillB48 has told you...although not nearly as eloquently as he has. ☺️

 

Needless to say the ship used the original locks.

 

People at cruise line corporate offices are generally clueless about this topic...and for that matter many other things. Try asking about the Passenger Vessel Services Act. You'll almost certainly get misinformation, not to mention that most seem to think the name of the law is the Jones Act.