Restrictions on Cruise Calls to Bar Harbor?

[supernanny]

On 2/8/2023 at 9:38 PM, Ashland said:

Our RCI Liberty 9 night Canada NE itinerary for Oct 5, 2023 out of Port Liberty hasn't been changed. Hope it isn't but we will still cruise regardless. Have always loved our port stops there but we also understand the situation with Bar Harbor.

We will be on this one as well, I am looking forward to this port. Hoping it does not get dropped. 

[Cruisin Kay D]

Received notice of itinerary change for Zaandam, April 18-29, that port call at Bar Harbor has been cancelled and ship will be stopping at Portland, Maine.   And that the Newport RI stop has been changed to be a Sea Day.  But there is NO listing of possible excursions at Portland.   

[Nitemare]

41 minutes ago, Cruisin Kay D said:

Received notice of itinerary change for Zaandam, April 18-29, that port call at Bar Harbor has been cancelled and ship will be stopping at Portland, Maine.   And that the Newport RI stop has been changed to be a Sea Day.  But there is NO listing of possible excursions at Portland.   

Portland will have lots of options, from outlet shopping to lighthouse tours to local boat tours, etc.  Likely you can figure out your own excursion without the ship if you need to.

 

Stinks about Newport.  It's a great little city to visit.  Our last weekend before we moved from the Boston area to out here was in Newport.

[tring]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:47 PM, Cruisin Kay D said:

Received notice of itinerary change for Zaandam, April 18-29, that port call at Bar Harbor has been cancelled and ship will be stopping at Portland, Maine.   And that the Newport RI stop has been changed to be a Sea Day.  But there is NO listing of possible excursions at Portland.   

 

Thanks for the information.  I see that the first ship visit to Bar Harbor this year is on 4th May, so possibly the port not open in April, as Zandam is stil listed with a number of calls this year -  https://maine.portcall.com/#!?tab=2&port=Bar Harbor

 

Hope your excursions appear soon for Portland.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by tring

[music&cruises]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:08 PM, shipgeeks said:

Well, we just got an email notifying us that BH has been cancelled on our Sept. 14 cruise, and replaced with an overnight in Saint John, as well as a longer day in Halifax.  I'm happy; my cruise has been improved!

Sweet!  Yes, that'll be much more interesting. I was in New Brunswick years ago, and I have really been wishing my cruise to Nova Scotia would have included NB.  Lucky you!

[tring]

I have been listening to a cruise agent (who puts out regular cruise videos) mention that there have been movements in the legal action being taken re the Bar Harbor cruise calls this year.  I did not fully understand what was said, but I think it was about a temporary injunction being challenged and the town taking an action that apparently makes it more likely scheduled cruise calls for this year that had been made some time back, will go ahead.

 

Does anyone have a better knowledge about this and can clarify the situation?  I suspect though, like with any legal challenge, that situation could always change again, though the agent seemed hopeful that his planned call in September will go ahead.

[Destiny0315]

https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/03/29/news/hancock/bar-harbor-cruise-ships-trial-july/

Here is an article from yesterday that explains what is happening at the moment.

[tring]

5 hours ago, Destiny0315 said:

https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/03/29/news/hancock/bar-harbor-cruise-ships-trial-july/

Here is an article from yesterday that explains what is happening at the moment.

 

Thanks, much appreciated, will have a read now,

 

Barbara

 

[tring]

39 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Thanks, much appreciated, will have a read now,

 

Barbara

 

 

So still a chance our late September call could be called off with short notice as we understand it.  At 1868 pax, our ship is above the 1,000pax limit, but at least not one of the biggest ships scheduled to call there.  I really hope that if we are cancelled for Bar Harbor, the ship can be booked into an alternative, rather than just ending up with an extra sea day, though Bar Harbor does look like an interesting port so would be sad to miss it.

 

I have seen to new schedules for the summer 2025 cruises on our ship and see that Bar harbor is not on the schedule for a very similar September '25 cruise, so either the cruise line are being cautious or perhaps bigger ships are not being booked for future visits now anyway.  It seems sensible for it to be skipped though and a firm booking made for somewhere else.

 

Thanks again for the link

 

Barbara

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by tring

[Ashland]

7 hours ago, tring said:

 

So still a chance our late September call could be called off with short notice as we understand it.  At 1868 pax, our ship is above the 1,000pax limit, but at least not one of the biggest ships scheduled to call there.  I really hope that if we are cancelled for Bar Harbor, the ship can be booked into an alternative, rather than just ending up with an extra sea day, though Bar Harbor does look like an interesting port so would be sad to miss it.

 

I have seen to new schedules for the summer 2025 cruises on our ship and see that Bar harbor is not on the schedule for a very similar September '25 cruise, so either the cruise line are being cautious or perhaps bigger ships are not being booked for future visits now anyway.  It seems sensible for it to be skipped though and a firm booking made for somewhere else.

 

Thanks again for the link

 

Barbara

 

The change doesn't go into affect until 2024 for some RCI ships. We're booked for October 2023 and still a go for Bar Harbor onboard Liberty.

[tring]

5 hours ago, Ashland said:

The change doesn't go into affect until 2024 for some RCI ships. We're booked for October 2023 and still a go for Bar Harbor onboard Liberty.

 

Thanks, that is looking good then 😊

 

[eclue]

Other than the issues with the town of Bar Harbor, sometime the ships do not stop there due to the winds and weather as this is a tender port. It is a great place to visit. I hope we can stop there again...if not, I can always buy my wild blueberry jam online and it is really GOOD!

 

[Laszlo]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:17 PM, eclue said:

Other than the issues with the town of Bar Harbor, sometime the ships do not stop there due to the winds and weather as this is a tender port. It is a great place to visit. I hope we can stop there again...if not, I can always buy my wild blueberry jam online and it is really GOOD!

 

https://www.mdislander.com/news/politics/current-moa-to-continue-for-bar-harbors-existing-cruise-line-bookings-in-2024/article_17587612-a0f9-11ee-ab73-bbc3769a410b.html?fbclid=IwAR2dxhhZmjeRn2QPUR3u4q1bIQw3oLQo7dmI91HqB7saSosBOLAaV2TLkgQ

[tring]

44 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

https://www.mdislander.com/news/politics/current-moa-to-continue-for-bar-harbors-existing-cruise-line-bookings-in-2024/article_17587612-a0f9-11ee-ab73-bbc3769a410b.html?fbclid=IwAR2dxhhZmjeRn2QPUR3u4q1bIQw3oLQo7dmI91HqB7saSosBOLAaV2TLkgQ

 

I tried to view this, but it is not visible to those in the Europe, presumably because of our data protection regulations. 

 

I have heard about the court case which allows the town of Bar Harbor to restrict cruise calls to 1,000 pax though, which is, I suspect, what the link is about.  I am the OP of this thread and we were lucky enough to visit last September on our UK based ship which holds about 18,000 pax maximum.  It was a good visit, we did a walking tour and then strolled around taking in lunch of lobster roll and bluberry pie.   As we were the only ship in with a number of passengers taking trips beyond the town, it was OK, but I can see it would be totally overrun by some bigger ships.  Shame for those hoping to call in the future who may not be able to call, though I think the legal argument will continue with appeals.

 

There are other ports though, so hope everyone enjoys their cruise to that region, (which we liked a lot), no matter which ports they stop at. 

 

[Laszlo]

20 minutes ago, tring said:

 

I tried to view this, but it is not visible to those in the Europe, presumably because of our data protection regulations. 

 

I have heard about the court case which allows the town of Bar Harbor to restrict cruise calls to 1,000 pax though, which is, I suspect, what the link is about.  I am the OP of this thread and we were lucky enough to visit last September on our UK based ship which holds about 18,000 pax maximum.  It was a good visit, we did a walking tour and then strolled around taking in lunch of lobster roll and bluberry pie.   As we were the only ship in with a number of passengers taking trips beyond the town, it was OK, but I can see it would be totally overrun by some bigger ships.  Shame for those hoping to call in the future who may not be able to call, though I think the legal argument will continue with appeals.

 

There are other ports though, so hope everyone enjoys their cruise to that region, (which we liked a lot), no matter which ports they stop at. 

 

It basically said the judge upheld the running. Still trying to figure out of this goes in effect now or not for another year or two

[tring]

3 hours ago, Laszlo said:

It basically said the judge upheld the running. Still trying to figure out of this goes in effect now or not for another year or two

 

The guide from Bar Harbor who did our walking tour had said he expected any judgement to be appealed and could become a legal argument going back and forth for a while to come.  What happens during that time we do not know.

 

As there could still be uncertainty, we would not be surprised if cruise lines pull their bookings anyway, but that remains to be seen, or not.  The issue that could become a problem is that if a cruise line cancels, they will likely have to pay cancellation fees, whereas if the port is forced to cancel, they may have to pay cancellation fees to the cruise line.  Hence a cruise line may just hang in there, having likely explored plan B which they hope to keep as an alternative if needed. May all become clearer as the season approaches.  I hope so for the cruise passengers sake as being left with uncertainty will not be a good option imo.

 

 

[twotravellersLondon]

22 hours ago, Laszlo said:

It basically said the judge upheld the running. Still trying to figure out of this goes in effect now or not for another year or two

 

Many thanks for your clear and concise facts. Elsewhere, there seems to be a lot of rumour, supposition and speculation over the tinkling tea-cups about what may happen at Bar Harbor but things could well be clarified by the Town of Bar Harbor in the very near future... even this week.

 

You might already know that there's already a Memorandum Of Agreement between the Town of Bar Harbor and the cruise lines. That is; an agreement will be made each year covering all bookings of ships which plan to visit in the 18 months following a schedule being agreed. These Memorandum Of Agreements are signed with each cruise line annually 

 

In 2021, any combination of cruise ships booked between May 1 and October 30th of a season had to be at or below the daily caps based on the published lower berth capacity for each ship. That was; 3,800 for May, June, September, and October and 3,500 for July and August. (The lower berth idea is a very American thing... if the lower berths are sold the ship would been at 100% capacity (loading) and additional passengers in upper berths could well push the loading well over 100%.)

 

However... an essential part of this Memorandum Of Agreement was that the Harbor 

Master would stop accepting reservations of any additional ships once the monthly caps (based on accumulation of the published lower berth capacity of each booked ship) had been filled: 30,000 for May 40,000 for July 65,000 for September: 30,000 for June 40,000 for August 65,000 for October.

 

At the time this Memorandum Of Agreement was made in 2021, bookings made prior to July 21, 2021 were to be honoured... even if they exceeded the agreed limits. This Memorandum Of Agreement was to be effective from September 21, 2022 for scheduling of the calendar year 2023 and 2024 cruise seasons. A review was due in November 2023, at the end of the 2023 season with a view to scheduling the 2025 season.

 

What people who are less well informed need to know is...  in November 2022 folks living in Bar Harbour voted for a cap of just 1,000 passengers a day with other restrictions on cruise ships and the operators of the pier. As you've helpfully explained, On 29 February 2024 Federal Judge Lance Walker on the U.S. District Court for the District of Maine ruled that the limit on the number of cruise passengers was legal and could be enforced by the town council.

 

Harbor Bar Town officials are reported to have said they were pleased with the ruling and that they would provide more information after a scheduled town meeting in the first week of March 2024.

 

It's difficult not to have mixed emotions about this one... a feeling of empathy with cruise passengers who may not have the same opportunity to visit Bar Harbor, as others have had in the past, and the residents of Bar Harbor who have to navigate thousands of cruisers a day in their small community.

 

Sadly for us... we're in the former group!

[twotravellersLondon]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:18 PM, Laszlo said:

Still trying to figure out of this goes in effect now or not for another year or two

 

As we suggested it might, the Town of Bar Harbor clarified matters on Wednesday of this week following the U.S. District Court for the District of Maine upholding the local ordinance to limit daily cruise ship guest disembarkation to no more than 1,000 visitors.

 

One of the biggest cruise ships, The Voyager of the Seas, carrying more than 3,800 passengers visited Bar Harbour in 2022. (By contrast, the Icon of the Seas, the world's largest cruise-ship, carries up to 7,600 passengers at maximum capacity.)

 

The cap of 1,000 cruise guests per day is scheduled to begin with the 2024 sailing season... early May through late October. The Harbor Master will cancel, or reject, requests for reservations made after the town voted on the ordinance on Tuesday, November 8, 2022 for all ships with lower berth capacities greater than 1,000 passengers.”

 

But the Council will honour reservations made before the town voted. Passengers from these 2024 ships won't be subject to the disembarkation limits. It's likely that most of the 2024 calls won't be changed. For 2024, it's expected that the visitor numbers will be reduced by about 50% from the peak year.

 

The council is already reviewing the 2025 season. Reservations made and accepted after March 17, 2022 will be subject to the ordinance. 

 

Rules for enforcement were still being drafted on Wednesday and will be made public.

 

Hope this helps to clarify things a bit amid so much speculation.

[WinksCruises]

In terms of the upcoming 2024 season, it's a case of whether your cruise line (not you) booked the itinerary before the referendum vote (ie Nov 8, 2022).  So if Royal Caribbean, for instance, had the paperwork for your cruise with a Bar Harbor stop "on the books" before that November 2022 vote, that ship's Bar Harbor stop would be grandfathered in.  If your cruise line (not you) booked the itinerary after Nov. 8, 2022, theoretically, you would be unable to stop there. 

 

And yes, any appeal by the plaintiffs would probably keep the cruise season open while it's worked out in the courts.

 

Some interesting insights on Sea Trade Cruise News including a quote from a Holland America rep saying all their 2024 cruises will go on as they were locked down before the town vote.

[twotravellersLondon]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:03 PM, WinksCruises said:

In terms of the upcoming 2024 season, it's a case of whether your cruise line (not you) booked the itinerary before the referendum vote (ie Nov 8, 2022).  So if Royal Caribbean, for instance, had the paperwork for your cruise with a Bar Harbor stop "on the books" before that November 2022 vote, that ship's Bar Harbor stop would be grandfathered in.  If your cruise line (not you) booked the itinerary after Nov. 8, 2022, theoretically, you would be unable to stop there. 

 

And yes, any appeal by the plaintiffs would probably keep the cruise season open while it's worked out in the courts.

 

Some interesting insights on Sea Trade Cruise News including a quote from a Holland America rep saying all their 2024 cruises will go on as they were locked down before the town vote.

 

Many thanks for the facts. It will be interesting to see how things pan out. The letters/emails to the Council by local residents are available and whichever way the court case went some folks were always going to be unhappy.

 

The arrangements between the Town and the Cruise-lines always seem to have been handled in a professional and collaborative manner so that augurs well.

 

Of course, the Town has a few Ace cards. It controls the cruise-coaches parking and pick-up, drop offs and it licences other facilities.

 

As far as the UK market is concerned... one UK company that's taking cruises across to that part of the world has two newish ships with less than 1,000 capacity.

 

So it will be interesting to see just what happens in the next few months. 

 

Thanks again.

[tring]

I understand the plaintiffs, (that is the people who rely on the cruise ship calls for their livelihood),  have now appealed, as we were told would happen by our guide last September.  it looks like this is going to continue, unsurprisingly. 

 

Whether the cruise lines will still be interested in calling there remains to be seen.  

 

Edited March 30 by tring

[twotravellersLondon]

 

There's been bits and pieces of speculation about what's happening at Bar Harbor... so a factual update might be helpful...

 

The court judgement was on 25 February 2024. On 2 February APPLL (the Association to Protect and Preserve Local Livelihoods) said that it would appeal. By contrast others in the community and leading proponent of the referendum called the ruling a supporting the results of the vote by the folks of Bar Harbor, a "huge win for Bar Harbor citizens and democracy."

 

On 6 March  Bar Harbor Town Council called a special Wednesday night meeting to decide "next steps" following the 2022 referendum and the subsequent a court decision capping landings at 1,000 cruisers per day. 

The United States District Court had affirmed that The Town of Bar Harbor had the authority, under to limit the volume of cruise ship visitations in order to ensure the Town's quality of life was preserved. The initiative had been voted on by the town's people, approved at Town Meeting and, following the court case, was the law of the land. This Council would now see to immediate implementation and enforcement, in a way that is lawful, fair, and fiscally responsible.

 

The Council had already directed the Harbor Master to cancel, or reject, requests for reservations made after the 2022 vote for all ships with lower berth capacities greater than 1,000 passengers. The disembarkation of passengers of cruise ships with reservations for the 2024 season that are made and accepted after this date are subject to the current Ordinance. However, the Council will honour reservations made before the town voted. Passengers from these 2024 ships will not be subject to the disembarkation limits of the Ordinance. 

Any appeal is unlikely to be heard before Bar Harbor's cruise season begins on 2 May, the Town Council's decisions on Wednesday night will have significant impact for the 2024 season. As a result, the Town would experience a 50% reduction from peak year cruise ship visitation. 

 

In reviewing the 2025 season, the Council would ensure that the disembarkation of any cruise lines with reservations made and accepted after March 17, 2022, will be subject to the Ordinance. The Town was prepared to go to court to obtain fines and injunctive relief against any landowner that exceeded the disembarkation limits, and any party that disobeys the orders of the Harbor Master. 

 

We've seen one media report that, "These restrictions would inevitably require the cruise lines to change their Maine itineraries..." and so even if an appeal was successful, it would seem that far fewer cruises would be planned to visit Bar Harbor in 2025.

 

Some of the 5,000 or so local residents in Bar Harbor have been very concerned about cruise-ship dumping sewage, traffic congestion in the port and feeling overwhelmed and alienated in their own town by the sheer numbers of sudden influxes of cruise passengers. (There is correspondence available for those who're that interested.) While some in cruise-related summer jobs are concerned about the reduction of cruise ships, the town's summer population expands to about 18,000 people who stay in the town and surrounding area, use the local restaurants and services and contribute almost $500 million to the local economy.

 

A few days ago, at the end of March,  APPLL and the  Penobscot Bay /River Pilots Association filed an appeal.

 

Cruise Lines International Association didn't play any part in the legal action. Since 2008 CLIA has adhered to voluntary passenger caps and in 2021 proposed reducing numbers to address growing concerns about crowding. That resulted in an 18% reduction in passenger numbers from 2022 to 2023, when just over 157,000 cruisers visited Bar Harbor. 

 

Rather glad that we prefer smaller ships!