Passport required for certain ports

[orville99]

17 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

$50,000 or so in port fees for every ship that pulls in every day adds up quick. 

St. Thomas charges $6.84 per SOB (Soul on Board) a cruise ship, so a ship like wonder that has ~7,000 passengers and ~3,000 crew would pay ~$68,000 every time it ports there. Some other ports charge more, some charge less, but it makes no difference if you get off the ship or not. They collect for the entire manifest.

[Fouremco]

27 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

$50,000 or so in port fees for every ship that pulls in every day adds up quick. 

 

5 minutes ago, orville99 said:

St. Thomas charges $6.84 per SOB (Soul on Board) a cruise ship, so a ship like wonder that has ~7,000 passengers and ~3,000 crew would pay ~$68,000 every time it ports there. Some other ports charge more, some charge less, but it makes no difference if you get off the ship or not. They collect for the entire manifest.

There's no question that port fees make a healthy contribution, but going back to the original point, those port fees are paid whether or not you travel with a passport. And while there's a very small number of cruise ships that boast a maximum capacity approaching 7,000, the vast majority carry far fewer passengers. At the same time, airlines are charged landing fees. The amount per landing will be less than a day's port fees for a Behemoth of the Seas, but there are many more daily flights than there are cruise ship arrivals. And all of those passengers are travelling on a passport. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, Fouremco said:

 

There's no question that port fees make a healthy contribution, but going back to the original point, those port fees are paid whether or not you travel with a passport. And while there's a very small number of cruise ships that boast a maximum capacity approaching 7,000, the vast majority carry far fewer passengers. At the same time, airlines are charged landing fees. The amount per landing will be less than a day's port fees for a Behemoth of the Seas, but there are many more daily flights than there are cruise ship arrivals. And all of those passengers are travelling on a passport. 

The original point was the WHTI, whose purpose it is to make it easy for anyone to be on those ships, regardless of passport. Less than 30% of American citizens hold a passport. 

[Fouremco]

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

It is called the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative-the US State Department and the Caribbean Islands really aren't too concerned what the rest of the world thinks about it because it allows BILLIONS of dollars to flow into the Island economies.

 

18 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The original point was the WHTI, whose purpose it is to make it easy for anyone to be on those ships, regardless of passport. Less than 30% of American citizens hold a passport. 

Your original post attributes billions of dollars flowing into the island economies because the WHTI enables Americans to cruise without a passport. My contention is that the contribution made by cruisers who don't hold have passports comprises a minor portion of these billions of dollars, with the majority contributed by passport holders, whether on a cruise or staying for a land holiday. 

[Mum2Mercury]

4 hours ago, allyfree said:

The rest of the world would like a word ... why does the US think itself exempt from the norms of international travel? 

We Americans don't think we're immune to necessities of international travel, BUT many Americans don't travel outside our borders.  Being a very large country, we can visit mountains, beaches, historical and cultural sites, big cities, rural areas ... right here within the US of A.  Our states are the size of European countries.  Whether you agree or disagree, many people travel closer to home in a way that isn't as possible for people in smaller countries.  

1 hour ago, orville99 said:

St. Thomas charges $6.84 per SOB (Soul on Board) a cruise ship, so a ship like wonder that has ~7,000 passengers and ~3,000 crew would pay ~$68,000 every time it ports there. Some other ports charge more, some charge less, but it makes no difference if you get off the ship or not. They collect for the entire manifest.

An important note about money spent in port:  Port taxes stay with the government, whereas money spent on meals or tee-shirts goes to individual merchants.

[c-leg5]

25 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

We Americans don't think we're immune to necessities of international travel, BUT many Americans don't travel outside our borders.  Being a very large country, we can visit mountains, beaches, historical and cultural sites, big cities, rural areas ... right here within the US of A.  Our states are the size of European countries.  Whether you agree or disagree, many people travel closer to home in a way that isn't as possible for people in smaller countries.  

 

That may very well be true but isn’t really relevant here when we are talking about US citizens actually traveling outside of USA.

[Charles4515]

2 minutes ago, c-leg5 said:

 

That may very well be true but isn’t really relevant here when we are talking about US citizens actually traveling outside of USA.

It appears to me that since US citizens are allowed to travel in some circumstances, closed loop cruises out of US ports without a passport, it seems some Europeans and Canadians are furious. Maybe they are jealous that they can not do the same? Do they really think most people sailing without passports care what some European or Canadian thinks about them sailing without a passport? All they know is that it is allowed and that is good enough for them. They are doing nothing wrong. 

[Ret MP]

I want to look at one Port of Call for example.  The island of Cozumel (yes, part of Mexico), for example!  On any given day there could be 2 or 3 Rustbucket Cruise ships at one pier and 2 or three RCCL ships at another Pier.  And a few other cruise line ships, too.  How many passengers are on each ship?  I'm guessing one ship, at least, will have about ~6,000 cruisers and there could be up to about 4,000 each of the other ships and repeat that about 4 days a week.  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the local hotels/resorts, in Coz, don't even have a daily turnover of about ~10,000 people a day for 4 days or more and I don't think the Island of Cozumel's hotels/resorts can even handle those numbers.  Now take the ~20,000 - 30,000 people paying the port fees/taxes, that ain't small change and I'd bet that a majority of those get off the ship and spend "some" money at the local establishments.  And I will disagree with you until the cows come home that, cruise lines/cruisers  "contribute very little to the local economy".  Am I saying or have I implied that they are the largest contributor to the local economy in every island/country?  NO!  However, the cruise industry is far from a minor economic engine to many/most of the Caribbean Islands/countries.  

 

I don't think that we have too much light between our opinions other than the degree of economic contribution to the islands/countries.   

 

BTW, just for the fun of it, the inbound flights into Coz are about 8 flights a day and the same departures, obviously.  The largest aircraft is an A320 Airbus which holds just less than 200 passengers.  That's about 1600 passengers a day if we say all aircraft were A320s, which they aren't, and all seats are sold, which they probably aren't.  Cruise lines bring in up to ~30,000 a day, up to ~4 days a week or more, some days less, some days 0.

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/czm

 

[orville99]

13 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

There's no question that port fees make a healthy contribution, but going back to the original point, those port fees are paid whether or not you travel with a passport. And while there's a very small number of cruise ships that boast a maximum capacity approaching 7,000, the vast majority carry far fewer passengers. At the same time, airlines are charged landing fees. The amount per landing will be less than a day's port fees for a Behemoth of the Seas, but there are many more daily flights than there are cruise ship arrivals. And all of those passengers are travelling on a passport. 

 

12 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

Your original post attributes billions of dollars flowing into the island economies because the WHTI enables Americans to cruise without a passport. My contention is that the contribution made by cruisers who don't hold have passports comprises a minor portion of these billions of dollars, with the majority contributed by passport holders, whether on a cruise or staying for a land holiday. 

I am trying, but I fail to see where you are going with this or why it is of any concern to anyone who travels other than you have an opinion on the need (or lack thereof) for passports that is cast in concrete. IMO, it is a tempest in a teapot argument. 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, orville99 said:

 

I am trying, but I fail to see where you are going with this or why it is of any concern to anyone who travels other than you have an opinion on the need (or lack thereof) for passports that is cast in concrete. IMO, it is a tempest in a teapot argument. 

Thank you; you are on point
 

Constantly bringing up proper stating at an AI has ZERO to do with the discussion. 
 

it is an indisputable fact that the WHTI brings hundreds of thousands of people (and their wallets) to the islands that otherwise would never have visited. 

[c-leg5]

18 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

It appears to me that since US citizens are allowed to travel in some circumstances, closed loop cruises out of US ports without a passport, it seems some Europeans and Canadians are furious. Maybe they are jealous that they can not do the same? Do they really think most people sailing without passports care what some European or Canadian thinks about them sailing without a passport? All they know is that it is allowed and that is good enough for them. They are doing nothing wrong. 

Not sure why you quoted me? I am not sure how your post relates to what I posted.

 

FWIW,  I don’t think too many Europeans or Canadians are furious, although I do think they may find the logic of choosing to travel overseas without a passport difficult to understand; and yes you are correct, US citizens do have the ability to participate in limited, restricted international travel without a passport at the present time, and are not doing anything wrong.

 

As per usual, this thread has now digressed from the OP’s original concerns and contains information not pertinent to their question, some of which is misleading at best.

[Ret MP]

11 hours ago, orville99 said:

 

I am trying, but I fail to see where you are going with this or why it is of any concern to anyone who travels other than you have an opinion on the need (or lack thereof) for passports that is cast in concrete. IMO, it is a tempest in a teapot argument. 

 

8 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Thank you; you are on point
 

Constantly bringing up proper stating at an AI has ZERO to do with the discussion. 
 

it is an indisputable fact that the WHTI brings hundreds of thousands of people (and their wallets) to the islands that otherwise would never have visited. 

But, it is fun and helps pass the time.  And it causes me to do a little research, which is fun and a necessity <(self-imposed necessity as I believe I need to keep my mind working, often), a favorite past-time for me.  

 

I get a kick out of these kinds of posts.  

[SC LTC]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:57 PM, karen1821 said:

My boyfriend just turned 80 and won't fly. He refuses to get a passport being 80. I am doing a 12 night out of Baltimore to southern caribbean and would love for him to go but my TA said he needs a passport because we stop in Barbados. Never heard of this before

 

Find someone to go with you 

[RD64]

Just get a passport and amortize it over the life of the passport - maybe $7 to $10 per year.

[Ret MP]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/Barbados.html:

 

U.S. citizens must have a valid U.S. passport to enter Barbados. No visa is needed for stays up to 6 months.NOTE: Generally, all U.S. citizens are required to present a valid U.S. passport when traveling to Barbados, as well as proof of anticipated departure from Barbados. This includes travelers arriving by airplane and by private sea-going vessel. Those traveling to Barbados on a cruise may use another Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) compliant document. However, we strongly recommend visitors obtain a passport before travel in case of an unforeseen emergency that requires a cruise passenger to disembark and return by air.

[Ret MP]

On 5/23/2023 at 3:57 PM, karen1821 said:

My boyfriend just turned 80 and won't fly. He refuses to get a passport being 80. I am doing a 12 night out of Baltimore to southern caribbean and would love for him to go but my TA said he needs a passport because we stop in Barbados. Never heard of this before

 

I think you need a new TA!