Additional TAX in UK ports now!

[SteveH2508]

"Free at Sea" is NOT free in UK (despite what NCL's marketing wonks would like you to believe).

 

We have just booked 9 days on Prima in November and Free at Sea is £199 per person.

 

[luv2kroooz]

7 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

And, from what you’re telling me NCl can’t break out taxes/VAT on their invoice in Europe, and free drinks don’t qualify for taxes/VAT, I still don’t know what it is you’re expecting?

I have learned to expect nothing from NCL, so we have made a personal decision to not pursue a refund. NCL charged us and collected $80-$100 in VAT on free drinks. Free drinks are not subject to VAT. Therefore, a refund of $80-$100 is owed back to the customer. Again, we have made a decision to just allow NCL to keep the taxes that were collected unlawfully, expecting nothing from NCL.

[insidecabin]

1 hour ago, SteveH2508 said:

"Free at Sea" is NOT free in UK (despite what NCL's marketing wonks would like you to believe).

 

We have just booked 9 days on Prima in November and Free at Sea is £199 per person.

 

That 9n in Nov is Europe should be covered by the FAS  50% off offer for all Europe 2023 sailings.

 

 

[Notts1964]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Still trying to wrap my mind around anyone trying to get a refund for something that was free to begin with.  Free at Sea offers free drinks.  And, from what you’re telling me NCl can’t break out taxes/VAT on their invoice in Europe, and free drinks don’t qualify for taxes/VAT, I still don’t know what it is you’re expecting?

 

Matter of fact, the only place I’ve seen any of this mentioned it’s here at CC.  As best I can tell, none of the YouTubers have even noticed any of this.

 

But hey, if you can get away with getting a refund for something that was free to begin with, have at it.  Nothing I read here at CC surprises me anymore.  

Just to clarify. The “Free at Sea” package is purchased and paid for in the UK. The cost of the package depends on the number of days of your cruise. So for 7 days it is normally £149pp including VAT (sales tax has to be included in the price by law in the UK), and for a 9 day cruise it is £199 including VAT etc.

There are 2 issues being discussed.

The fact that if drinks are not served, for say 2 days, a refund is due as each day has actually been prepaid for. The package is not free in the UK.

VAT has already been charged and paid for at the time the package was purchased, and as such tax should not be charged again on individual drinks during the cruise.

I have not been involved in the controversy as I sailed on the Jade in April and was not charged sales tax on drinks. But there is obviously confusion between the UK and US folks based on different sales/trading conditions.

 

[Sinbadssailors]

The beverage package isn't free in the US either.  We definitely pay more upfront to  have drinks included and have to pay added gratuities for that add-on.

 

The entire price is supposedly paid in full before boarding. 

 

I thought it was decided a long time ago on this board that free meant "freedom" in this case and not "without charge".

 

Nothing confusing about being refunded for something purchased but not received. 

 

Also nothing confusing about wanting a refund for taxes charged today on something purchased and paid for months ago.

 

I  don't understand why anyone is charged taxes on individual drinks when they're not purchasing individual drinks. 

[Asawi]

4 hours ago, SteveH2508 said:

"Free at Sea" is NOT free in UK (despite what NCL's marketing wonks would like you to believe).

 

We have just booked 9 days on Prima in November and Free at Sea is £199 per person.

 

If you booked in the last few days your FreeAtSea should have been half price, 99 each.

[insidecabin]

1 hour ago, Sinbadssailors said:

The beverage package isn't free in the US either.  We definitely pay more upfront to  have drinks included and have to pay added gratuities for that add-on.

 

The entire price is supposedly paid in full before boarding. 

 

I thought it was decided a long time ago on this board that free meant "freedom" in this case and not "without charge".

 

Nothing confusing about being refunded for something purchased but not received. 

 

Also nothing confusing about wanting a refund for taxes charged today on something purchased and paid for months ago.

 

I  don't understand why anyone is charged taxes on individual drinks when they're not purchasing individual drinks. 

The FAS  UK fixed charge used to be cheaper than the grats version in the US.

 

A while back the FAS UK prices were changed(up a lot) and they are not far off the US cost now when you factor in some value for the meal WiFi and shorex.

[SteveH2508]

41 minutes ago, Asawi said:

If you booked in the last few days your FreeAtSea should have been half price, 99 each.

We also have flights, transfers, Shorex discounts, dining package and Wifi package in that price, so not a bad deal all things considered (for a balcony cabin as well).

[insidecabin]

On 5/29/2023 at 7:20 PM, SteveH2508 said:

We also have flights, transfers, Shorex discounts, dining package and Wifi package in that price, so not a bad deal all things considered (for a balcony cabin as well).

I think although the headline for the FAS discount was ALL Europe it excluded Prima.

 

Good deal when the flight credit is available to get a full package.

[insidecabin]

On 5/24/2023 at 11:01 PM, Greener123 said:

since the other UK alcohol issue thread got closed 🙄

Seeing reports from those who boarded Dawn today (24th May) in Southampton that they were charged an additional tax when buying drinks even with a package.

 

not even sure this is legal in the UK since our laws are that the advertised price has to be inclusive of taxes. Also NCL would again be the only line with such policy.

 

why are they just making things up as they go 

Latest report from someone that got off Star yesterday (21-31 May) is no taxes/charges or drink restrictions on their cruise.

(It was the 11-21May that kicked off the drinkgate)

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2934870-live-report-norwegian-star-may-11th-21st-2023-is-this-my-last-time-on-a-small-ship/page/12/#comment-65476483

[Norwayfan1]

2 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Latest report from someone that got off Star yesterday (21-31 May) is no taxes/charges or drink restrictions on their cruise.

(It was the 11-21May that kicked off the drinkgate)

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2934870-live-report-norwegian-star-may-11th-21st-2023-is-this-my-last-time-on-a-small-ship/page/12/#comment-65476483

I have just sailed on the Norwegian Star too, with the Free at Sea package.

 

There were no restrictions on alcohol service, although - and this is bizarre - on Belfast evening a member of the staff in Ginza brought out the dreaded 'we can't serve alcohol because of UK regs etc but those with drinks packages may be served'. He wiped the notice clean and placed it prominently on the bar counter. That notice was displayed nowhere else on the ship as far as I could tell. Presumably the message didn't reach Ginza  - who knows?!! 🤔

 

I did have an e-mail from P&O (in response to a query I sent off during 'Drinksgate') to say that NCL were the only company sailing out of the UK who were operating a 'no alcohol because of UK Regs' policy. Other competing cruise lines watching that fiasco must have been laughing with glee.

 

Hopefully we've seen the end of the nonsense.

 

 

[graphicguy]

This debate is still raging????? 😉

 

Anyway, those FAS charges are the tips and service charges.  It covers specialty dinner and bar/waitstaff tips...not the drinks themselves.  Those are indeed "free".

 

I think if you look at the fine print, you'll see that the FAS perks have no monetary value, as NCL notes.

 

So, I can sort of, maybe see a complaint that the U.K. ports where drinks couldn't be served could, perhaps get a refund on the taxes and tips.  But, what would that number be?  Let's say you're docked for 8 hours.  Let's say you get out to sea and can have drinks again.  Do you offer ½ day's tips/fees as a refund?  What if you eat at a specialty dining venue the day you're docked?  Should you add your tip/fee back into that day's charges?

 

I just don't see how that works.  It would be an accounting nightmare that some are demanding some sort of restitution for because NCL doesn't add in the taxes to the drinks as some other cruise lines do.

Edited June 1, 2023 by graphicguy

[DCGuy64]

On 5/29/2023 at 8:58 AM, graphicguy said:

Still trying to wrap my mind around anyone trying to get a refund for something that was free to begin with.  Free at Sea offers free drinks.  And, from what you’re telling me NCl can’t break out taxes/VAT on their invoice in Europe, and free drinks don’t qualify for taxes/VAT, I still don’t know what it is you’re expecting?

 

Matter of fact, the only place I’ve seen any of this mentioned it’s here at CC.  As best I can tell, none of the YouTubers have even noticed any of this.

 

But hey, if you can get away with getting a refund for something that was free to begin with, have at it.  Nothing I read here at CC surprises me anymore.  

Right, exactly. People who didn't pay for something want to be reimbursed. You cannot make this stuff up. This thread is so amusing to me. Especially hilarious are the ones that are 100% negative about NCL but most people continue to sail with them anyway. Astounding and hilarious. Who continues to give money to a cruise line that gets everything wrong? Lastly, I have to laugh when people, with a straight face, say they'd rather pay more for something just to avoid it being taxed. Imagine being in a bar and saying "hey bartender, you're charging me $5 + tax for this beer, just charge me $10 and no tax, that's much easier." LOL Wow.

[Norwayfan1]

I got the feeling, from reading the other lengthy 'Drinksgate' thread, that the root cause of many people's unhappiness was the lack of honesty from the cruise company. Hoping passengers would believe the UK had suddenly changed its laws and sprung them on NCL was pretty much the pits. Not many people feel affection for companies that try to pull the wool over their eyes.

 

I noticed on Norwegian Star that most passengers were from USA. Did NCL hope that those passengers would be more likely to believe a story about UK tax changes, I wonder? I doubt many UK passengers sailing regularly out of Southampton would believe it.

 

 

[insidecabin]

NCL have accepted it was 2 days of failure to deliver a paid service.

 

(It was around 1.75 days in reality)

 

FAS in UK is  charged and sold as a paid upgrade for the  benefits

 

(Unlike the US a gratuity on a nominal value of a "free" benefit, drinks and dinner)

 

The UK t&c say for FAS

"Retail value of Unlimited Open Bar Package is $109.00 USD per person per day"

 

This is what they are selling at a reduced rate within FAS along with the other benefits(grats included).

 

It was never the money trivial amounts involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graphicguy]

I don't know there's deception.  I do think how NCL does their FAS packages may cause some confusion.  I know pricing out other cruise lines who have similar drink, dining, etc packages just raise the prices of their fares or packages.  NCL breaks out the tips/fees of their packages separately.  

 

U.K. and EU don't allow for those breakouts.  They want all fees and taxes added into the packages and not broken out separately.  So, asking for a refund of the packages themselves, that have zero associated costs is where there tends to be more confusion.  You can't get a refund for something that is included in the FREE at Sea package that costs nothing directly.  You're essentially asking for a refund of zero charges.

 

Now, if you're saying you should be refunded the fees and taxes on those hours you're docked in the U.K. I can maybe see a point.  But, then the question becomes how much of a credit?  How much of the FAS taxes/fees was for Specialty Dinners, how much was for drinks, etc?  I am trying to put a number on that, and I can't.

 

Now, it sounds like taxes couldn't be collected for those who are ordering drinks without the FAS package.  That means, there's no real complaint if you have FAS.

 

I think this is where people don't like the FAS packages and the way NCL breaks it out instead of just raising fares and burying taxes/fees in the cost of the drink package.

[insidecabin]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I don't know there's deception.  I do think how NCL does their FAS packages may cause some confusion.  I know pricing out other cruise lines who have similar drink, dining, etc packages just raise the prices of their fares or packages.  NCL breaks out the tips/fees of their packages separately.  

 

U.K. and EU don't allow for those breakouts.  They want all fees and taxes added into the packages and not broken out separately.  So, asking for a refund of the packages themselves, that have zero associated costs is where there tends to be more confusion.  You can't get a refund for something that is included in the FREE at Sea package that costs nothing directly.  You're essentially asking for a refund of zero charges.

 

Now, if you're saying you should be refunded the fees and taxes on those hours you're docked in the U.K. I can maybe see a point.  But, then the question becomes how much of a credit?  How much of the FAS taxes/fees was for Specialty Dinners, how much was for drinks, etc?  I am trying to put a number on that, and I can't.

 

Now, it sounds like taxes couldn't be collected for those who are ordering drinks without the FAS package.  That means, there's no real complaint if you have FAS.

 

I think this is where people don't like the FAS packages and the way NCL breaks it out instead of just raising fares and burying taxes/fees in the cost of the drink package.

 

UK

 

The  way NCL does FAS is the same as most  other cruise lines.

 

Pay a fee get a package that includes x,y,z (all taxes and service included)

 

no breaking out anything

 

if they don't deliver the package(or part) they need to refund.

 

NCL have accepted that.

[graphicguy]

OK…again, nomenclature is a stumbling block.  Retail value is NOT the same as monetary value.  Retail value of the charms Diamonds International gives away by visiting their stores they may claim is $100.  When, monetary value is maybe 50¢.

 

You want a refund of the Retail Value of the entire FAS package.  But, monetary value of that package is zero as it’s “free”.

 

But, let’s carry this forward.  Since NCL breaks out taxes and fees on the retail value of 20%, let’s use that.

 

Let’s just keep this simple.

 

You’re docked somewhere in the U.K.  You’re there for 8 hours, or ⅓ of a day.  20% taxes fees of ~$100 FAS retail price would be $20.  Break out the fees for the part of the FAS that would cover Specialty dining, $50 excursion credit, internet minutes, etc…let’s say $15. ⅓ of that fifteen dollars would net a $5 refund.  

 

I get it.  $5 is $5.  But, I certainly waste any time at Customer Service or on the phone, or on line trying to make a case for a $5 refund (although I do think you could make a case).

[insidecabin]

12 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

OK…again, nomenclature is a stumbling block.  Retail value is NOT the same as monetary value.  Retail value of the charms Diamonds International gives away by visiting their stores they may claim is $100.  When, monetary value is maybe 50¢.

 

You want a refund of the Retail Value of the entire FAS package.  But, monetary value of that package is zero as it’s “free”.

 

But, let’s carry this forward.  Since NCL breaks out taxes and fees on the retail value of 20%, let’s use that.

 

Let’s just keep this simple.

 

You’re docked somewhere in the U.K.  You’re there for 8 hours, or ⅓ of a day.  20% taxes fees of ~$100 FAS retail price would be $20.  Break out the fees for the part of the FAS that would cover Specialty dining, $50 excursion credit, internet minutes, etc…let’s say $15. ⅓ of that fifteen dollars would net a $5 refund.  

 

I get it.  $5 is $5.  But, I certainly waste any time at Customer Service or on the phone, or on line trying to make a case for a $5 refund (although I do think you could make a case).

 

No one said they want a refund of imaginery value just that NCL say that's what you get for your reduced charge.

 

They don't break out anything with UK contracts they do highlight stuff is include in the fee like taxes and gratuity.

 

You pay a fee for the product it is not free.

 

I have itemized what I think the value of  FAS to me is for the drinks element of FAS I paid for that NCL failed to deliver

 

if NCL want to give back more for their admission of failure thats up to them.

 

Your hours are way out for the Star trip on unavailable drink service on the 2 days involved.

 

NCL have agreed 2 days even though it was more like 1.75.

[graphicguy]

(sigh)

 

Don’t know how else to explain what’s going on.

 

If you don’t want a refund, but want someone to say they were wrong, if you promise to give this a rest, I’ll apologize.

 

Sorry!

[Stevio]

2 hours ago, insidecabin said:

NCL have accepted it was 2 days of failure to deliver a paid service.

 

(It was around 1.75 days in reality)

 

FAS in UK is  charged and sold as a paid upgrade for the  benefits

 

(Unlike the US a gratuity on a nominal value of a "free" benefit, drinks and dinner)

 

The UK t&c say for FAS

"Retail value of Unlimited Open Bar Package is $109.00 USD per person per day"

 

This is what they are selling at a reduced rate within FAS along with the other benefits(grats included).

 

It was never the money trivial amounts involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A quick question for you Insidecabin....

I too was on the 11^th May 10 day Star cruise and following written complaint, I received mail from VP guest services stating that we along with everyone else would receive $100 Future Cruise Credit (FCC) for each passenger and that it would be available on our accounts on June 1^st, 2023.

 

Problem is, it is June 1^st and nothing yet showing in our accounts

.

 Just wondered if you had actually received anything yet?

[Stevio]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

OK…again, nomenclature is a stumbling block.  Retail value is NOT the same as monetary value.  Retail value of the charms Diamonds International gives away by visiting their stores they may claim is $100.  When, monetary value is maybe 50¢.

 

You want a refund of the Retail Value of the entire FAS package.  But, monetary value of that package is zero as it’s “free”.

 

But, let’s carry this forward.  Since NCL breaks out taxes and fees on the retail value of 20%, let’s use that.

 

Let’s just keep this simple.

 

You’re docked somewhere in the U.K.  You’re there for 8 hours, or ⅓ of a day.  20% taxes fees of ~$100 FAS retail price would be $20.  Break out the fees for the part of the FAS that would cover Specialty dining, $50 excursion credit, internet minutes, etc…let’s say $15. ⅓ of that fifteen dollars would net a $5 refund.  

 

I get it.  $5 is $5.  But, I certainly waste any time at Customer Service or on the phone, or on line trying to make a case for a $5 refund (although I do think you could make a case).

 

I think you are confusing UK NCL cruises with US.

 

Here in the UK we pay up front for the whole package.... Cruise, charges, taxes, fees, "Free at Sea", service charges, tips, the works in advance.

 

And on one particular 10 day cruise they refused to serve alcohol for the two days we were in British Waters. no drinks on either the free at sea or for cash nor even the free latitudes bottle of wine with dinner. A dry ship.

 

What stung was their excuses for doing so everything from new UK laws to Brexit... All total nonsense as evident by no other cruise line behaving this way & their own sudden turn around.

 

[insidecabin]

20 minutes ago, Stevio said:

A quick question for you Insidecabin....

I too was on the 11^th May 10 day Star cruise and following written complaint, I received mail from VP guest services stating that we along with everyone else would receive $100 Future Cruise Credit (FCC) for each passenger and that it would be available on our accounts on June 1^st, 2023.

 

Problem is, it is June 1^st and nothing yet showing in our accounts

.

 Just wondered if you had actually received anything yet?

Ours was there immediately.

Email was late night FCC there in the morning UK time.

Others have reported the same.

 

Some are getting £100pp and after complaint about being a FCC have been told a refund to payment method.

 

Lack of consistency.

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

OK…again, nomenclature is a stumbling block.  Retail value is NOT the same as monetary value.  Retail value of the charms Diamonds International gives away by visiting their stores they may claim is $100.  When, monetary value is maybe 50¢.

 

You want a refund of the Retail Value of the entire FAS package.  But, monetary value of that package is zero as it’s “free”.

 

But, let’s carry this forward.  Since NCL breaks out taxes and fees on the retail value of 20%, let’s use that.

 

Let’s just keep this simple.

 

You’re docked somewhere in the U.K.  You’re there for 8 hours, or ⅓ of a day.  20% taxes fees of ~$100 FAS retail price would be $20.  Break out the fees for the part of the FAS that would cover Specialty dining, $50 excursion credit, internet minutes, etc…let’s say $15. ⅓ of that fifteen dollars would net a $5 refund.  

 

I get it.  $5 is $5.  But, I certainly waste any time at Customer Service or on the phone, or on line trying to make a case for a $5 refund (although I do think you could make a case).

Well said.

[Stevio]

1 minute ago, insidecabin said:

Ours was there immediately.

Email was late night FCC there in the morning UK time.

Others have reported the same.

 

Some are getting £100pp and after complaint about being a FCC have been told a refund to payment method.

 

Lack of consistency.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I will get on to them if I haven't heard by Monday.

I think the problem is that this was part of a b2b 21 day cruise so I have fallen through the cracks.