Cunard story on their web site about ballroom dancing

[Dancer Bob]

I agree it's the arrangement that counts, and QR orchestras have often failed badly. Costa went through a spell where headquarters ordered the musicians only to play non-dance music, but recently, the muscians have gone back to playing what the passengers want, I was told those managers are now "pursuing other opportunities". It would be nice to think that will happen at Cunard.

[Colin_Cameron]

13 hours ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

the dance professionals have never acted as general dance hosts in the past

That may have been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. I have seen many of the male pros acting like an extra dance host in the evenings. Admittedly it's usually the men, and the women are standing at the side looking bored. For that reason I have asked a couple of them to dance and they were delighted because, "nobody ever asks."

 

Thinking about it now, you're not totally wrong. One of the male pros told me they were allowed to 'pick and choose' their partners, rather than having to dance with anyone and everyone. 

[ballroom-cruisers]

Yes Colin_Cameron, it would be unkind to 'require' the professionals to dance with anyone who asked. The reason is that they can get injured if the person they are dancing with is moving the wrong way, and in general men are strong enough to override a lady who is moving incorrectly whereas in general ladies can;t override a stronger man's wrong movements. Some ballroom dances are higher risk of that than others - especially the faster dances like the Viennese Waltz. So it is considerate to allow a professional to choose who they dance with.

[NE John]

2 hours ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

 

Yes indeed.  A good orchestra with top level musicians will be able to play a wide range of genres but still understand tempo and phrasing to fit with all the necessary dances.

 

On some voyages the musicians have not been up to that level, and particularly if the percussionist does not understand dance rhythms.  There have certainly been times when the timing of the beats in a cha cha has been odd such that you have to mentally ignore the drummer, and focus on only the start of each bar, and do your own timing in your soul (!) so that your body can move naturally - which is not easy. Similarly some rumbas have been totally wrong clave beat timing within the bar, and some foxtrots have had the incorrect phrasing for slows and quicks, and sometimes outside of acceptable tempo ranges  - and it certainly doesn't help if the vocalist is singing her heart out, but not phrased to the underlying correct rhythm, for any of the dances. 

 

We have had situations where the orchestra leader has announced that they will play a piece of music 'in the style of a samba'. They start playing and the dancers look around the room, and at each other, with a quizzical expression, each thinking, 'errm, that is no way a samba'.  One couple will get on the floor and attempt a samba, and struggle like mad and be at odds with the music - another couple will get on the floor and start to do a jive, with the first couple then switching from samba to jive also, and both couples then 'get by' even though the music doesn't actually work for any dances! Others tarts to leave the room as the dancing is not fun to do and no fun to watch!

 

However on other voyages the orchestra has had excellent knowledgable musicians and vocalists, who really do know what dance music is about, and then dancing to the live music is second to none in terms of enjoyable experience of movement.  I rather like this latter kind of orchestra!

You are spot on.
We experienced the former including odd beatings and the actual song intro and dance style announced that seemed off. My DW loves to dance and was put-off. 
Eventually, we were one of the tarts 😁who left the room! (I saw your correction update …)

[ballroom-cruisers]

Thanks NE John... Don't worry... I'm sure we're Tarts on more than one occasion too. Either way there is nothing that beats really excellent live music by the best musicians as a group of harmonised players who gel beautifully together feeling the music in their soul.

 

[ClaireRuss]

I'll be on QV later this year and it will be our first Cunard cruise. We're keen ballroom dancers and the dancing in the Queens Room was one of the main reasons we chose to cruise with Cunard for our honeymoon. I'm really looking forward to dancing to the live band. Appreciate they have to cater for everyone, but fingers crossed there will be plenty of variety that includes good dancing numbers.

[vietmom]

We were recently on the QM2 for 5 weeks in May/June.  We are not ballroom dancers other than a few lessons, but we have always loved spending the evening in the Queens room listening to the Big Band era music and watching the dancers.  Imagine our unhappy surprise when, by the third song EVERY night, the dancers were attempting to dance to Madonna's "Like a Virgin" or Maroon 5's "Moves Like Jagger" or some other similar music. There were only a couple of traditional songs played each night. After a few songs, people gave up dancing or listening and left the ballroom.  One week there was a small vintage group on board with their own band.  On the last night, their band played in the Queen's Room for everyone to attend.  The dance floor and the entire Queen's Room was jam packed the entire night!!! They even brought in extra chairs, but it was standing room only. I think that was a clear sign as to what the majority of passengers prefer in the Queen's Room.

 

[ballroom-cruisers]

We are hoping that Cunard gets this message loud and clear.  It certainly looks like the management attempt to dilute the ballroom dancing has backfired on Cunard, and they are now trying to repair the damage.  Hopefully the voyages for the last four months of the year will have proper support for ballroom and Latin dancing in terms of decent strict tempo music, both recorded as well as the live orchestra, a high quality professional ballroom couple running the dance classes and performing show dances on Gala evenings, as well as offering private lessons, and dance hosts to cater for those ladies and men who do not have a partner but who wish to dance.

[NE John]

34 minutes ago, vietmom said:

We were recently on the QM2 for 5 weeks in May/June.  We are not ballroom dancers other than a few lessons, but we have always loved spending the evening in the Queens room listening to the Big Band era music and watching the dancers.  Imagine our unhappy surprise when, by the third song EVERY night, the dancers were attempting to dance to Madonna's "Like a Virgin" or Maroon 5's "Moves Like Jagger" or some other similar music. There were only a couple of traditional songs played each night. After a few songs, people gave up dancing or listening and left the ballroom.  One week there was a small vintage group on board with their own band.  On the last night, their band played in the Queen's Room for everyone to attend.  The dance floor and the entire Queen's Room was jam packed the entire night!!! They even brought in extra chairs, but it was standing room only. I think that was a clear sign as to what the majority of passengers prefer in the Queen's Room.

 

Sounds like you experienced the Beatles “Yesterday” Om-pa-pa March, I mean waltz in June. I’m glad we’re not the only ones who were confused with the music. 

[vietmom]

Yes, we did 🫣

[LittleFish1976]

12 hours ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

We are hoping that Cunard gets this message loud and clear.  It certainly looks like the management attempt to dilute the ballroom dancing has backfired on Cunard, and they are now trying to repair the damage.  Hopefully the voyages for the last four months of the year will have proper support for ballroom and Latin dancing in terms of decent strict tempo music, both recorded as well as the live orchestra, a high quality professional ballroom couple running the dance classes and performing show dances on Gala evenings, as well as offering private lessons, and dance hosts to cater for those ladies and men who do not have a partner but who wish to dance.

May I add to this plea to Cunard that they include every region in which they sail in this recommencement of regular ballroom services.

[Sdancer]

I called Cunard Customer Service asking about dance hosts on QV. Customer Service did not have any information about any upcoming changes in the near future.

 

I know three dance hosts, two in the US and one in Europe. As far as I know, none was contacted for Cunard sailing.

I have another idea. 

 

I called Cunard customer service today and found out that the CEO and VIPs (some or all?) are new.

So, it looks like the lack of dance hosts and non-danceble orchestra music comes from the new top management.

I asked when I could cancel my sailing if the real dance hosts program and proper orchestra does not return.

I gave my booking number, and the comment with my complaint was sent to the appropriate department.

 

The more complaints Cunard gets, the better are the chances to get back the dance hosts and orchestra with dance music.

 

Last March I was on Celebrity. A couple of days before the sailing I went on Celebrity App and found out which house band was booked for my cruise. I went on-line to check out this band which turned out to be maybe ok for karaoke (and I am being kind) but not for dancing.

I sent an email to the Celebrity Guest Department stating that this band is not good for dancing.

I do not know if it was my email, or post-cruise complaints, or both, but this band was replaced at the last minute. We got a wonderful band and a singer and had a great ballroom dance cruise!

On the last day I asked the band if they got their contract at the last minute, and they did!

 

Maybe calling Customer Service and asking to send our complaint comments about a lack of dance hosts and danceble music would prompt the new top management to bring back ballroom dancing to the pre-pandemic level.

What do you think? Can we do it?

 

[NE John]

40 minutes ago, Sdancer said:

I called Cunard Customer Service asking about dance hosts on QV. Customer Service did not have any information about any upcoming changes in the near future.

 

I know three dance hosts, two in the US and one in Europe. As far as I know, none was contacted for Cunard sailing.

I have another idea. 

 

I called Cunard customer service today and found out that the CEO and VIPs (some or all?) are new.

So, it looks like the lack of dance hosts and non-danceble orchestra music comes from the new top management.

I asked when I could cancel my sailing if the real dance hosts program and proper orchestra does not return.

I gave my booking number, and the comment with my complaint was sent to the appropriate department.

 

The more complaints Cunard gets, the better are the chances to get back the dance hosts and orchestra with dance music.

 

Last March I was on Celebrity. A couple of days before the sailing I went on Celebrity App and found out which house band was booked for my cruise. I went on-line to check out this band which turned out to be maybe ok for karaoke (and I am being kind) but not for dancing.

I sent an email to the Celebrity Guest Department stating that this band is not good for dancing.

I do not know if it was my email, or post-cruise complaints, or both, but this band was replaced at the last minute. We got a wonderful band and a singer and had a great ballroom dance cruise!

On the last day I asked the band if they got their contract at the last minute, and they did!

 

Maybe calling Customer Service and asking to send our complaint comments about a lack of dance hosts and danceble music would prompt the new top management to bring back ballroom dancing to the pre-pandemic level.

What do you think? Can we do it?

 

For our post-cruise survey, we gave Cunard strongly negative reviews about the type of music for Ballroom (or any dancing) during our TA. Everything else was great!
We were upset with the overall scene of the QR though. 

[WantedOnVoyage]

On 8/7/2023 at 7:46 PM, Sdancer said:

I called Cunard customer service today and found out that the CEO and VIPs (some or all?) are new.

So, it looks like the lack of dance hosts and non-danceble orchestra music comes from the new top management.

 

"Cunard top management".... well that's the first in quite awhile I even knew Cunard had any management at the top or middle.  It's been a progression of non entities for so long and possibly due to decisions like this (do they really have a weekly "How can we annoy our regular customers" meeting?) anonymity seems a wise course of action.  Last I heard, an Australian somebody was "in charge" of Cunard and I guarantee you he never set foot on a Cunarder until he was appointed... and quite possibly has yet to.  Carnival hired a Coca Cola HR person to "run" Holland America who... wait for it.... had never taken a cruise in his life.

 

Cunard ships are normally very well managed... aboard ship. It's like any competent employee cannot wait to get away from 100 Harbour Parade or possibly blossoms once they get aboard the real ships and with real customers.  

[SusieAV8R]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:51 PM, WantedOnVoyage said:

 

"Cunard top management".... well that's the first in quite awhile I even knew Cunard had any management at the top or middle.  It's been a progression of non entities for so long and possibly due to decisions like this (do they really have a weekly "How can we annoy our regular customers" meeting?) anonymity seems a wise course of action.  Last I heard, an Australian somebody was "in charge" of Cunard and I guarantee you he never set foot on a Cunarder until he was appointed... and quite possibly has yet to.  Carnival hired a Coca Cola HR person to "run" Holland America who... wait for it.... had never taken a cruise in his life.

 

Cunard ships are normally very well managed... aboard ship. It's like any competent employee cannot wait to get away from 100 Harbour Parade or possibly blossoms once they get aboard the real ships and with real customers.  

 

On 8/8/2023 at 9:51 PM, WantedOnVoyage said:

 

"Cunard top management".... well that's the first in quite awhile I even knew Cunard had any management at the top or middle.  It's been a progression of non entities for so long and possibly due to decisions like this (do they really have a weekly "How can we annoy our regular customers" meeting?) anonymity seems a wise course of action.  Last I heard, an Australian somebody was "in charge" of Cunard and I guarantee you he never set foot on a Cunarder until he was appointed... and quite possibly has yet to.  Carnival hired a Coca Cola HR person to "run" Holland America who... wait for it.... had never taken a cruise in his life.

 

Cunard ships are normally very well managed... aboard ship. It's like any competent employee cannot wait to get away from 100 Harbour Parade or possibly blossoms once they get aboard the real ships and with real customers.  

Yes, but remember that the Carnival Corporation owns Cunard......but since that's been since 1998, why do they now want to mess with success?

[WantedOnVoyage]

Why??? Look at what Carnival have done to all of their once distinctive brands like Holland America, P&O, Princess in the last decade.... they have been dumbed down, larger robbed of their distinctiveness and are just a web site "click on the deal" homogenised non entity.  

 

And with QUEEN ANNE being the thin edge of the wedge, they are embarking on the same policy with Cunard.  It will become just another khakis/polo shirt at dinner ("formal" nights only of course), 24 "speciality restaurants" for a fee, Jumbotron on the open deck everyman cruise company. 

[Victoria2]

If it wasn't for Carnival taking over Cunard at the end of the nineties, it's questionable if Cunard would exist so as a relatively newcomer to the brand, although a second generation Cunard cruiser, I am thankful Carnival 'was there' even if I don't enjoy the Cunard of the past.

 

If that means Carnival are tweaking brands, so be it. 'We' don't need to cruise with any of their brands if the tweaks offend.

So far, we're not offended. 🙂

 

 

[Victoria2]

50 minutes ago, WantedOnVoyage said:

Why??? Look at what Carnival have done to all of their once distinctive brands like Holland America, P&O, Princess in the last decade.... they have been dumbed down, larger robbed of their distinctiveness and are just a web site "click on the deal" homogenised non entity.  

 

And with QUEEN ANNE being the thin edge of the wedge, they are embarking on the same policy with Cunard.  It will become just another khakis/polo shirt at dinner ("formal" nights only of course), 24 "speciality restaurants" for a fee, Jumbotron on the open deck everyman cruise company. 

Easy solution

Don't cruise with a brand or on a ship you don't like.

[NE John]

Cunard and P&O are run as a separate Carnival subsidiary in Southampton vs the more US based Carnival brands. Princess brand has been separated from P&O for some time now and Princess is US based. 
I trust that Cunard, as a UK subsidiary leads to some independence of management decisions that Cunard from the mothership Carnival. I’m not sure of the level of independence?
In reality, Cunard certainly is a mix of American and British customs and business practices (US$ as currency with British English used in marketing and the Daily Programme). 
 

Edited August 13, 2023 by NE John

[Sdancer]

54 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Easy solution

Don't cruise with a brand or on a ship you don't like.

 

No - there is NO EASY solution to find anything even close to the pre-pandemic Cunard.

You are obviously not a ballroom dancer, nor a dance parties lover, nor appreciate fabulous orchestras of the past Cunard. 

Cunard was a unique brand with Big Band Orchestras, dance hosts and fabulous dance parties - all the fun on Cunard in the past, especially Transatlantic crossings with no ports (QM2). 

The recent unfortunate changes eliminated this uniqueness.

 

So, there are no other brands to switch to. The unique Cunard of the past is pretty much gone now.

 

I booked a Transatlantic round-trip crossing with a refundable deposit just in case Cunard pandemic changes become  permanent. I will cancel with no penalty 4 months before sailing if Cunard stays as it is now.

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Sdancer

[Victoria2]

5 minutes ago, Sdancer said:

 

No - there is NO EASY solution to find anything even close to the pre-pandemic Cunard.

You are obviously not a ballroom dancer, nor a dance parties lover, nor appreciate fabulous orchestras of the past Cunard. 

Cunard was a unique brand with Big Band Orchestras, dance hosts and fabulous dance parties - all the fun on Cunard in the past, especially Transatlantic crossings with no ports (QM2). 

The recent unfortunate changes eliminated this uniqueness.

 

So, there are no other brands to switch to. The unique Cunard of the past is pretty much gone now.

 

I booked a Transatlantic round-trip crossing with a refundable deposit just in case Cunard pandemic changes become  permanent. I will cancel with no penalty 4 months before sailing if Cunard stays as it is now.

 

No, not a dancer but we do love big bands and we do watch the dancers and as for music, I can't quite see how you can assume I wouldn't have appreciated the orchestras of the past as I can quite honestly say I love most music genres.

 

I say 

Easy solution

Don't cruise with a brand or on a ship you don't like.

 

You say

So, there are no other brands to switch to. The unique Cunard of the past is pretty much gone now

 

There is so much knocking of Cunard in certain quarters that quite frankly, if it's that bad now, why bother booking. I guess you've sort of answered me.

[ballroom-cruisers]

There is clearly a significant demand from quite a lot of passengers who strongly desire to continue having cruise holidays that involve a big component of dressing up to make multiple nights a real occasion in the company of many others who are of the same mind, and wish to spend many evenings either engaged in, or watching, ballroom and Latin dancing, to live music provided by an orchestra who can play high quality dance music, as well as afternoon tea dances where people can also enjoy dancing between bites of their scones and sips of tea, whilst others watch as they enjoy their sandwiches and cakes too.  If Cunard is the last refuge for those of this mindset, then they are going to make plenty of noise to the people who make the decisions, so that if at all possible this great experience will not be quickly lost to the mediocrity of the many other lines who go for the huge ships with the extensive children's mega entertainment on deck, multitude of modern sameness, and much the same as each other with no unique features compared to other similar lines. Cunard is still today unique.  So those who wish it to continue will of course speak up!

[Victoria2]

ballroom-cruisers If our recent cruse is anything to go by, the Cunard evening tradition of dressing for dinner is in no danger, thank goodness and I hope the dancers continue to dance as we like to watch 

but

for those who like taking a pop at the cruise line in general, as tweaks are not to their liking, I still say if you don't like it, don't book it and leave the ships to those of us who do still enjoy Cunard.

[ballroom-cruisers]

My guess is that a lot of people want to maintain that special quality that is Cunard - and not slowly have it become the same as the other lines - yes, on the voyages we have been on, it has been very clear that most on board continue to dress up in the evenings, even on non Gala nights, the Queen's Room remains a popular venue for people who will split their loyalty between the theatre and other evening entertainment options, and there are also people who we know who spend every evening watching ballroom dancing, and who do not go to the theatre at all.   Equally others will not have any interest in the dancing, and may spend all evening in the Casino, the Chart Room, or other parts of the ship, but there certainly seems to be a bigger contingent who are interested in evening theatre shows, as well as ballroom dancing.

[WantedOnVoyage]

4 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

Easy solution

Don't cruise with a brand or on a ship you don't like.

Exactly... so the people who want to live in khakis/polos, want 24 extra cost dining venues and a giant tv on the lido deck... go on the 95% of ships that already offer that and leave Cunard as it is alone!