RCCL stopping in Labadee these days?

[sfaaa]

X2 about health concern.  The  beach BBQ stand didn't look very clean. There were black flies constantly dive bombing around the salad and dessert station. I also saw a very sad looking skinny cat with runny eyes looking for table scraps around the picnic tables. I decided not to eat there. 

[Tin can]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

What would concern me most is if you have private health (Including Travel Insurance) and life insurance, what's the company's policy about traveling to countries that have "Travel Advisories" issued by the U.S. Government, which includes the wording, "Do not travel to Haiti"?"

 

I'd also like to know, as I'm not a lawyer, what RCCL's exposure is for ignoring an official U.S. Government, et al, "Travel Advisory" that says do not travel there. 

 

It all seems risky to me for all involved and in many ways, not just for security/personal safety. 

 

 

 

Genuine question as I am not a US citizen but would there be any political reason why your government would advise you not to travel to Haiti. 

 

I took a quick look at the other countries in US advisory level 4 - Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea amongst other such delights so the comparison seems a bit extreme to me. Just across the non physical border and into the Dominican Republic and it's a level 2 'caution' viewed the same as Sweden and funnily enough the UK.

 

I'm obviously aware that Haiti has unique issues compared to the DR but it's the same Island. 

 

Just curious by this.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Tin can

[sfaaa]

Nothing political about it as UN has also designated Haiti as a trouble spot and dangerous place. DR has a functioning government where as Haiti is practically a lawless state controlled by armed gangs.

 

https://www.un.org/en/information-center-washington/haiti’s-harrowing-humanitarian-crisis-remains-top-united-nations’

[Ret MP]

59 minutes ago, Tin can said:

 

Genuine question as I am not a US citizen but would there be any political reason why your government would advise you not to travel to Haiti. 

 

I took a quick look at the other countries in US advisory level 4 - Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, North Korea amongst other such delights so the comparison seems a bit extreme to me. Just across the non physical border and into the Dominican Republic and it's a level 2 'caution' viewed the same as Sweden and funnily enough the UK.

 

I'm obviously aware that Haiti has unique issues compared to the DR but it's the same Island. 

 

Just curious by this.

 

 

 

I can't answer the political or possible political involvement with the decision to designate Haiti with a Travel Advisory.  It would just be conjecture on my part.  However, a common border doesn't mean that things are the same on both sides of the border.  Just look at the border at the U.S. and Mexican border.  Totally opposite.  Wealth on one side, desperation on the other (yes, I know/understand the arguments to that, just an anecdotal comparison).  There are even many differences between Canada and the U.S.A.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Tin can said:

I'm obviously aware that Haiti has unique issues compared to the DR but it's the same Island. 

 

DR has a different history. France plundered Haiti, it was a French colony and made it compensate for the loss of slaves after independence. About 90% of the population had been slaves in Haiti. The opposite in the DR. DR was a Spanish colony and only 15% had been slaves.  

Edited August 1, 2023 by Charles4515

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I'd also like to know, as I'm not a lawyer, what RCCL's exposure is for ignoring an official U.S. Government, et al, "Travel Advisory" that says do not travel there. 

 

It all seems risky to me for all involved and in many ways, not just for security/personal safety. 

 

No one is required to book a cruise that stops at Labadee. You don't have to travel there. My opinion is that if is not safe RCCL won't stop there. They have paused stopping there in the past. But you don't have to agree with my opinion. If you don't have faith that RCCL won't stop there if it is unsafe then don't book a cruise that stops there. For that matter don't book with RCCL at all if you think they make risky decisions with security and safety. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Charles4515

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

No one is required to book a cruise that stops at Labadee. You don't have to travel there. My opinion is that if is not safe RCCL won't stop there. They have paused stopping there in the past. But you don't have to agree with my opinion. If you don't have faith that RCCL won't stop there if it is unsafe then don't book a cruise that stops there. For that matter don't book with RCCL at all if you think they make risky decisions iwht security and safety. 

I never said that I was considering or not considering going there. I don't have a cruise booked to go there and don't intend on doing so in the near future anyway.  I was just posing questions as fruit for thought and I did say that the concerns are not just about personal safety or security.  There are people that don't think of those kinds of things and it may provide an incentive to check it out with their own insurance companies.  

 

My trust in RCCL or others has nothing to do with my post.  It's just about the insurance and legal exposure that passengers and RCCL may face if things go south.  

 

BTW, is it possible for RCCL to make the wrong decision to go to certain ports?  I don't think you can say that it is impossible, can you!  And another BTW, I'd be fine with cruising to Haiti today or tomorrow or..........  I have been there during less-than-perfect conditions in the rest of the country.  AND I have discussed in other threads here and other social media sites that I believe that RCCL, et al, would not port in countries or ports that present a clear and present danger.  But, that doesn't mean that it doesn't come with concerns and precautions AND the possibility of error.  

[c-leg5]

21 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

No one is required to book a cruise that stops at Labadee. You don't have to travel there. My opinion is that if is not safe RCCL won't stop there. They have paused stopping there in the past. But you don't have to agree with my opinion. If you don't have faith that RCCL won't stop there if it is unsafe then don't book a cruise that stops there. For that matter don't book with RCCL at all if you think they make risky decisions with security and safety. 

That is very simplistic. You may already have booked and paid for a cruise that stops there. The question that arose was does this invalidate insurance?

[Shay6380]

3 hours ago, PC Skier said:

When we were at Labadie on a RCCL cruise last fall there were gunshots and fighting at the pier as you face the island to the right.  We will not be going on a cruise there again. 

Thanks for the realistic info PC. Like other posters here, I have also been there before. An armed band of rebels takeing a cruise ship hostage would no doubt have crossed their minds, I'm sure. I'm scheduled to visit there in Feb 24, and hope RCL chooses another port. But will not allow RCL to make safety decisions for me. I'll guage the enviroment and make my decision then. Saying RCL wouldn't go there if it were unsafe is not only dangerous but irresponsible. They weigh the bottom line ($$) against odds.

[sadiwest]

28 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

No one is required to book a cruise that stops at Labadee. You don't have to travel there. My opinion is that if is not safe RCCL won't stop there. They have paused stopping there in the past. But you don't have to agree with my opinion. If you don't have faith that RCCL won't stop there if it is unsafe then don't book a cruise that stops there. For that matter don't book with RCCL at all if you think they make risky decisions with security and safety. 

This cruise was booked over a year ago.  The same day that the travel advisory was posted, was the day an American was kidnapped with her daughter while working in a Hatian clinic.  

 

Does that imply a cruise to Labadee would be either absolutely safe or unsafe?  All I'm asking is would they take these developments into account and POSSIBLY  not stop there.

 

I cant go back in time and unbook the trip, but I can choose to not get off the ship there and hope they change that stop on the itinerary.  

[Shay6380]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:55 PM, Pratique said:

Labadee is not specifically mentioned within the travel advisory but is discussed generally in the safety and security section of the country information page for Haiti.

 

To put things in perspective, the State Department notes that tourists travel to Haiti at their own risk with Labadee being the exception. The recent travel advisory was issued because the U.S. embassy has very limited resources to assist U.S. citizens who are in Haiti. Cruise passengers at Labadee do not formally enter the country and are the responsibility of the cruise line, not the embassy.

 

If someone does not want to travel to Labadee then I would not try and talk them into it. Personally, I have felt safe there because it is a secured environment. I was on one cruise years ago where the channel was temporarily blocked by some fishing boats and I assume that some arrangement (most likely handled locally) was made to clear them away. Sketchy, yes, but I trust that the captain would not have entered if it was unsafe to do so.

If there is no US Embassy, who would help in an emergency? Their president is dead with no semblance of government left. If a large group of rebels decided to take a cruise ship by surprise, it could get violent. I'd rather avoid it.

[Ret MP]

3 minutes ago, sadiwest said:

I can choose to not get off the ship there and hope they change that stop on the itinerary.  

Fruit for thought, which was the intent of my earlier post:  If the gang of criminals was big enough and armed enough, the ship would be the grand prize and I'm not sure how well-defended the ship is.  I've read that RCCL and maybe even the Haitian government employees many locals to be armed and provide outer perimeter security to the location.  Some folks have actually said that they have seen heavily armed guards at the perimeter fence.  AND I don't know if the security on the ship(s) have any weapons to defend the ship with.  

[Charles4515]

7 minutes ago, sadiwest said:

Does that imply a cruise to Labadee would be either absolutely safe or unsafe?  All I'm asking is would they take these developments into account and POSSIBLY  not stop there.

 

I cant go back in time and unbook the trip, but I can choose to not get off the ship there and hope they change that stop on the itinerary.  

They will take the devopments into account. They have paused calls to Labadee in the past. 

 

Of course you can choose to get off or not. 

[Rusty_lock]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

I can't answer the political or possible political involvement with the decision to designate Haiti with a Travel Advisory.  It would just be conjecture on my part.  However, a common border doesn't mean that things are the same on both sides of the border.  Just look at the border at the U.S. and Mexican border.  Totally opposite.  Wealth on one side, desperation on the other (yes, I know/understand the arguments to that, just an anecdotal comparison).  There are even many differences between Canada and the U.S.A.

I don’t trust Canadians!

[Shay6380]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

They will take the devopments into account. They have paused calls to Labadee in the past. 

 

Of course you can choose to get off or not. 

True. But like most, I've invested heavily in my cruise and prefer relaxing as opposed to worrying over an armed conflict. I keep thinking of the Achille Lauro off Egypt. I have time yet, and hope it either resolves itself or RCCL goes elswhere.

[Rusty_lock]

4 hours ago, PC Skier said:

When we were at Labadie on a RCCL cruise last fall there were gunshots and fighting at the pier as you face the island to the right.  We will not be going on a cruise there again. 

That’s a quiet night in LA, Chicago or Detroit 😋

[Charles4515]

Just now, Shay6380 said:

True. But like most, I've invested heavily in my cruise and prefer relaxing as opposed to worrying over an armed conflict. I keep thinking of the Achille Lauro off Egypt. I have time yet, and hope it either resolves itself or RCCL goes elswhere.

Your cruise is in February of 2024. Given your fears and lack of faith that RCCL would cancel if it were unsafe. You probably should canclel now. 

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, Rusty_lock said:

That’s a quiet night in LA, Chicago or Detroit 😋

We had some idiot firing off a gun in our buildings parking lot a few weeks ago. 

[sfaaa]

Although I have no proof, my gut feeling tells me RCCL and whoever is controlling the surrounding area are on the same page and have some kind of monetary deal worked out. That's why Labadee is left alone and appears calm when the rest of the country is turning to hell. Haitian government and police are practically under siege and fighting for survival. They wouldn't be of any help if things turn ugly in Labadee.

[Ret MP]

19 minutes ago, Rusty_lock said:

I don’t trust Canadians!

Can't tell if you are joking or not.  I was born and raised in Montreal, Canada.  So, I guess, if you don't trust Canadians, you should stop reading my posts, if you don't trust 'em.  

[sadiwest]

21 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

We had some idiot firing off a gun in our buildings parking lot a few weeks ago. 

This logic, I'm sure you're aware, is backwards.   Just because random violence happens everywhere doesn't mean it's just as unsafe in those random spots as it is in Haiti. 

 

My gut tells me that Haiti in general would be wise to keep cruise ships and passengers safe because it brings large amounts of money ($12 per cruise passenger) to the island. Same reason every other place that deoends on cruise line money does everything in their power to leave them alone. Does that mean every single person in Haiti would act rationally as a result? No. Not to mention the lack of available police. 

 

RCCL or any other cruise line can't predict or anticipate any specific action, but their bottom line is and always will be money.  Why take the risk with cruise passengers?  

 

My gut also tells me that if they are going to change the itinerary we won't find out until we're on board.

Especially since I've already called to inquire. 

[maxcat910]

I found an article from 2020 that has nothing to do with Haiti but does say the following about Level 4 travel advisories that were in effect because of COVID:

Most travel medical insurance plans will exclude any coverage if you enter into a Level Four Advisory Country,” says P.K. Rao, president of INF Visitor Insurance. Since all countries are currently categorized at Level 4, that makes crossing any international border a risk, but it depends on your plan. For some plans, Jeremy Murchland, president of Seven Corners insurance says, “It's possible the Level 4 travel advisory may affect only specific benefits,” such as not covering non-medical emergency evacuation.

[Toddcan]

50 minutes ago, Rusty_lock said:

I don’t trust Canadians!

Careful, or we might decide to burn your White House

 

Again

 

😉😁😜

[Tin can]

39 minutes ago, Shay6380 said:

True. But like most, I've invested heavily in my cruise and prefer relaxing as opposed to worrying over an armed conflict. I keep thinking of the Achille Lauro off Egypt. I have time yet, and hope it either resolves itself or RCCL goes elswhere.

 

If it's any consolation I joined the FB group for the current Liberty cruise that has just stopped there (we are doing the same itinerary next year) and everyone seemed to have a great day.

 

The conflict was discussed a lot before arrival but only positive things from the actual experience. Just reading a comment now "beautiful island and people'.

 

I'm not making light of the situation in Haiti but isn't the worst of the gang violence in LA only 30 miles away from Beverly Hills and Malibu. I believe Labadee is six hours away from the main area of trouble.

 

(this was posted yesterday on the FB group)

 

[A&L_Ont]

1 minute ago, Toddcan said:

Careful, or we might decide to burn your White House

 

Again

 

😉😁😜

Yup. 🙃