Early December Cruise Advice

[Interestedcruisefan]

19 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I don’t think it’s about affordability, but there are a lot of particularly elderly people who find smartphone technology to be bewildering. For your idea to work, P&O would have to provide a solution for these people that doesn’t include allowing walk-ups. 

If everyone knows ALL bookings on a particular ship  require smartphones then they aren't on this cruise in the first place with my suggestion

 

And any walk ups people still attempt on board only result in people being directed to someone who can help them book on smartphones and don't slow down the systems 

 

Start it on Arvia with upto  2 or 3 years notice if really necessary. 

 

Then Iona etc

 

Both ships will gain far more than they lose for all concerned by the time it's app booking  only for everyone on board

 

Let's not pretend the app booking is hard to get the hang of 

 

And let's not pretend it's elderly people who find smartphone technology bewildering who are doing all these walk ups either

 

This is mainly people being stubborn and set in their ways

 

 

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Don't know why it's unfair?

 

I'm saying app only cruises and then other cruises where there's no app

 

A choice people make in advance with full knowledge of what type of cruise they are joining

 

Only time the apps not used is in the event it's faulty. I've not faced that yet.

 

On the ships where it's app only bookings then just allocate more staff to show people how to use the app. If people still try to do walk ups make them use the app when they get to front of walk up - they will soon learn

 

Make it clear and make it a selling point 

 

What's unfair about it selbourne?

 

Having multiple ways and systems to book things is clearly causing issues

 

And I'm fully expecting to walk up to my theatre bookings on Arvia in Feb 5 mins ish before the show starts ish and easily finding seats as normal

 

Same as I did on Arvia and Iona before

 

And I will post pics as I arrive (if I do live thread) to show how easy it was again

 

And that's for primetime shows

 

I'm always honest to admit when something doesn't work. But always worked for me so far

 

And I remember very clearly how that didn't work for me on cruises where you couldn't pre-book theatre in the past

 

 

I think for the MDR you, @Selbourne and I, are on the same page, we all believe that if the virtual queue was the only option, then MDR dining would run far smoother, with only peak times having to wait a little longer.

However I am with @Selbourne as regards the theatre for the 8:30 shows, which is the one we prefer. On our Iona cruises we found long queues forming before theatre opening time, and the check in system slowed down the entry, quite often meaning people were still queueing approaching start time.

The other 2 theatre performances rarely had a full house, so for these people had few problems. If you do post about your experience, then please make sure it's an 8:30 show you attend, and a popular artist.

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think for the MDR you, @Selbourne and I, are on the same page, we all believe that if the virtual queue was the only option, then MDR dining would run far smoother, with only peak times having to wait a little longer.

However I am with @Selbourne as regards the theatre for the 8:30 shows, which is the one we prefer. On our Iona cruises we found long queues forming before theatre opening time, and the check in system slowed down the entry, quite often meaning people were still queueing approaching start time.

The other 2 theatre performances rarely had a full house, so for these people had few problems. If you do post about your experience, then please make sure it's an 8:30 show you attend, and a popular artist.

It's nearly always 8.30pm shows (but very occasionally the early show) we attend and we try to see most shows 

 

By the time we arrive those long queues have gone and never took more than 30 seconds to check in

 

Think occasionally I've seen a small queue for check in so we just head to other entrance to avoid

 

 

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[enjoysailing]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Don't know why it's unfair?

 

I'm saying app only cruises and then other cruises where there's no app

 

A choice people make in advance with full knowledge of what type of cruise they are joining

 

Only time the apps not used is in the event it's faulty. I've not faced that yet.

 

On the ships where it's app only bookings then just allocate more staff to show people how to use the app. If people still try to do walk ups make them use the app when they get to front of walk up - they will soon learn

 

Make it clear and make it a selling point 

 

 

Stating people will know in advance what type of cruise they are joining is a bit of a joke. Remember it is the phone that is 'smart' not the operator!!

 

So many seem to book a cruise and then go to social media to ask the basic questions they should have researched beforehand. Such as - dress code, can I wear shorts in MDR, can I smoke on my balcony, tipping?

[Selbourne]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think for the MDR you, @Selbourne and I, are on the same page, we all believe that if the virtual queue was the only option, then MDR dining would run far smoother, with only peak times having to wait a little longer.

However I am with @Selbourne as regards the theatre for the 8:30 shows, which is the one we prefer. On our Iona cruises we found long queues forming before theatre opening time, and the check in system slowed down the entry, quite often meaning people were still queueing approaching start time.

The other 2 theatre performances rarely had a full house, so for these people had few problems. If you do post about your experience, then please make sure it's an 8:30 show you attend, and a popular artist.

We go to the 10.30pm performances. When we were on Iona we wandered along to the theatre a few nights. We couldn’t get in, but it wasn’t an issue as we were ambivalent about the shows so hadn’t booked. However, there were plenty of people who had booked complaining that they couldn’t get in. As I said, making a booking doesn’t guarantee you a seat, so what’s the point? Might as well revert to first come, first served, which doesn’t need any staff policing it and if you can’t get in it’s simply because you left it too late! 

[purplesea]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I don’t think it’s about affordability, but there are a lot of particularly elderly people who find smartphone technology to be bewildering. For your idea to work, P&O would have to provide a solution for these people that doesn’t include allowing walk-ups. 

It's not about affordability. My mother does not have a mobile phone, of any type. The reason - she has no signal where she lives, and there are quite a few black holes down here.   

[Interestedcruisefan]

A quick stat search shows:

 

By 2025 - 95 per cent of UK population aged 16 plus will have a smartphone

 

Only 83 per cent of UK population approx will have a passport

 

Only 52 per cent of UK population holidayed abroad in 2023

 

A good number of the 5 per cent without a smartphone will be in the category that either don't have a passport and/or don't holiday abroad

 

For couples or more you only need one person using a smartphone to book things on the app as well. Not everybody needs one

 

And I'm not saying P and O don't make everybody need a smartphone to be able to cruise

 

I'm saying slowly introduce cruise ships (starting with the most modern and largest - Arvia) where it becomes app booking only

 

With notice

 

And if it works (which it will) then roll it out further once it's proven to work 

 

But leave some ships for now to be as they are

 

So people have choices still

 

And those that don't want to use a smartphone on cruise holidays - just book a cruise where you don't need to

 

Everybody can be happy 

[Interestedcruisefan]

24 minutes ago, purplesea said:

It's not about affordability. My mother does not have a mobile phone, of any type. The reason - she has no signal where she lives, and there are quite a few black holes down here.   

So she could happily still cruise on the many ships that don't require you to use apps to book anything if you don't want to or aren't able

 

No problem at all

 

There would be so many choices

[zap99]

3 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

They can't or refuse to use the virtual system because quite simply theyve been allowed to get away with not using it 

 

Just let them walk up to be just put on an app

 

It's simple IMO

 

Make it as inconvenient as possible for those refusing to use the app

 

Don't pander to them. And each time someone helps them use the app explain how life could be easier for them with the app

 

And if they've signed up for app only cruises they can't argue

 

Try parking in Cornwall without using an app.

[Interestedcruisefan]

Similarly

 

A small waitrose I've been using in Muswell Hill the last 2 weeks whilst working in London has zero manned tills

 

Everybody has no choice but to use self service

 

Anyone needs help there's a staff member will show you how to use the self service till and/or help you

 

Dont think I've seen anyone need any help at all whilst I've been using it.

 

Second nature to them all now

 

I guess the waitrose is happy with that. And anyone who doesn't like it can choose to shop elsewhere 

 

Will be like that in most supermarkets in due course I expect 

 

It's just about educating people. 

 

I realise some don't like it. Fair enough.

 

But it's a small shop. There's 8 places to serve yourself. And I've never had to queue one second 

 

In the old days there may have been 2 or 3 tills manned at most in similar size shop and I would have been queuing every day I went in without doubt

 

Its a small very busy shop with no queues due to technology

 

A small percentage of population will choose not to shop in these places. 

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[zap99]

58 minutes ago, enjoysailing said:

 

Stating people will know in advance what type of cruise they are joining is a bit of a joke. Remember it is the phone that is 'smart' not the operator!!

 

So many seem to book a cruise and then go to social media to ask the basic questions they should have researched beforehand. Such as - dress code, can I wear shorts in MDR, can I smoke on my balcony, tipping?

Sometimes you look at a social media question and think...for goodness sake. How many pairs of socks should I take for a 14 night cruise ?. What tea bags are used ?.etc.

[crompton21]

14 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Sometimes you look at a social media question and think...for goodness sake. How many pairs of socks should I take for a 14 night cruise ?. What tea bags are used ?.etc.

 

Does anyone have experience of land based holidays where you can only get a meal if you use an app, to enter into a resort bar you must book with an app, to see entertainment you must book with an app etc.  

Probably my naivety but I would be quite shocked to find that sort of arrangement was now common place at most resorts.

Fortunately I am fully fit and healthy but there are people with disabilities who can't easily use a smart phone, visual impairment, muscle control to name a few of the possible reasons. It seems a shame to stop these people from taking a cruise, but maybe the 95% with a smartphone are the ones that count....  

[sweep2907]

P&Os app is hardly 2023 technology and as an IT whizz, even I struggle at times as you have to turn your phone into airplane mode and join ship's Internet etc etc. No wonder older passengers can't be bothered and Celebrity is far easier to use and don't need to switch between WiFi or 4g etc. 

 

I simply don't agree that we all need to move towards using their app only. I'm on holiday and want to be flexible and If I want to walk into MDR without joining a virtual queue and ask for a table, then I have every right to. If I'm given a pager and have to go and have a drink in a bar than I'm fine with that.

 

P&O are trying to be everything to everyone and my suggestion would be scrap the virtual queues and for freedom dining, go back to walk ups when you want to eat. I don't need to join a virtual queue anywhere else outside of a cruise ship? Other cruise lines seem to cope without this confusing technology and until they sort their IT systems out and have a clear strategy, they should scrap virtual queues which I didn't use once on Azura recently and got into MDR first attempt every meal.

Edited January 2 by sweep2907
Spelling

[purplesea]

I used the app on Iona and Arvia, although when on Arvia there were more problems with it as it crashed on several occasions.

I do not want to have my days booked, planned, etc.  I had enough of living to a timetable when bringing up the children and working. I am on holiday and want the spontaneity of doing what I want when I want without having it mapped out before hand.

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, crompton21 said:

 

Does anyone have experience of land based holidays where you can only get a meal if you use an app, to enter into a resort bar you must book with an app, to see entertainment you must book with an app etc.  

Probably my naivety but I would be quite shocked to find that sort of arrangement was now common place at most resorts.

Fortunately I am fully fit and healthy but there are people with disabilities who can't easily use a smart phone, visual impairment, muscle control to name a few of the possible reasons. It seems a shame to stop these people from taking a cruise, but maybe the 95% with a smartphone are the ones that count....  

For as long as I've been going Center Parcs would require online bookings before you arrived or in situ. Which you could do online on your PC in the old days and/or go and get help to book online at guest relations desks

 

You couldn't just turn up for activities and would be very lucky to be able to do walk ups without booking for popular restaurants

 

You could walk up for them to book you online for future dates subject to availability though

 

I would imagine everyone uses their smartphones for this now?  And it's app style booking? 

 

And Center Parcs people all have to do the same. They don't have multiple booking systems or queues for restaurants and activities

 

Just normal practise there to pre-book stuff and use technology 

 

 

 

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

The big US theme parks all have virtual queuing systems now and people actually pay large premiums to be able to pre-book time slots and multiple virtual queues for rides compared to standard customers who will be limited to one virtual queue at a time etc

 

That kind of thing was happening pre-covid

 

People in general in the real world would far rather virtual queue than stand in real physical queues

 

And are actually prepared to pay extra for the benefit of virtual queuing when offered the opportunity

 

 

Edited January 2 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

And for forward thinking organisations who you may normally expect to be in a phone queue for hours of your lives waiting to speak to a customer service rep they are slowly introducing the opportunity to join virtual queues where you can save your space in the queue rather than listen to music etc.

 

Put the phone down. Get on with your life. And then they call you back when you reach the front of the queue.

 

Yes please. Give me that opportunity every time please.

 

But I'm sure some people will choose to stay in the phone queue as that's what they are used to and they don't trust technology 

[Bill Y]

5 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I don’t think it’s about affordability, but there are a lot of particularly elderly people who find smartphone technology to be bewildering. For your idea to work, P&O would have to provide a solution for these people that doesn’t include allowing walk-ups. 

Some of us who have been retired for a long time do not need a smart phone. I had a PAYG mobile for emergencies and found that I hardly used it, It's only required for security SMS's and spends most of the time switched off. It can't be used while driving, when out for a walk in the country, I don't need internet access in the middle of a field or to be inconstantly in contact with a stockbroker. My home phone incorporates answer phone. I cannot get on with mobile touch screens my fingers don't seem to be compatible. I am a heavy user of a laptop with it's keyboard and the ability to easily click left and right. However DW has a tablet that she reminds me I like to use to track our position on a river cruise. I don't regard having the latest gismo as a status symbol.

Edited January 2 by Bill Y

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, purplesea said:

I used the app on Iona and Arvia, although when on Arvia there were more problems with it as it crashed on several occasions.

I do not want to have my days booked, planned, etc.  I had enough of living to a timetable when bringing up the children and working. I am on holiday and want the spontaneity of doing what I want when I want without having it mapped out before hand.

 

So with all due respect

 

Your should book an old fashioned cruise with less facilities and less options then

 

And enjoy it the same as you always have 

 

No problem at all. That's what you like

 

Bigger cruise ships with countless different restaurants can't be expected to wait and see who walks up on spec to operate efficiently each night. Not with the huge number of guests that need feeding each night

 

Impossible task for them to prep food leaving it random like you prefer to do yourself

 

Same as it would be for Center Parcs 

 

Or go back to theme parks with people spending 4 hrs queuing physically for the best rides and missing out on the rest of the rides for half a day. Abandon virtual queues

 

In the real world if you are on holiday in a resort and just want to walk up to a restaurant with spontaneity be prepared to be turned away or only get to dine at the least popular ones in the street

 

At a theatre for a popular show in any city or tourist resort if you don't want to book you won't get in - simple as that

 

On an old fashioned cruise ship with one theatre,  one MDR with set dining times and shared tables and one speciality restaurant once a week then maybe everyone can think they are having spontaneous holidays by not using apps

 

In reality they just have most of their week Pre-panned for them as above. Theres actually very little choices being made at all.

 

Let's be honest! 

 

Can't happen on cruise ships with 15 plus restaurants. 

 

You are expecting the impossible. 

 

4000 plus passengers can't just decide where they want to eat and when on spec and with spontaneity as you would like it to be

 

Would be absolute carnage

 

And if the majority are happy to book and plan then the minority who aren't shouldn't be accommodated if it spoils it for those that will plan and help things work smoothly for everyone IMO

 

They  should be pointed to cruises that don't use apps 

 

Better for them and better for guests who will embrace technology not to try and mix the two

 

Like I say that's with  all due respect as I do respect how you want to holiday

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Bill Y said:

Some of us who have been retired for a long time do not need a smart phone. I had a PAYG mobile for emergencies and found that I hardly used it, It's only required for security SMS's and spends most of the time switched off. It can't be used while driving, when out for a walk in the country, I don't need internet access in the middle of a field or to be inconstantly in contact with a stockbroker. My home phone incorporates answer phone. I cannot get on with mobile touch screens my fingers don't seem to be compatible. I am a heavy user of a laptop with it's keyboard and the ability to easily click left and right. However DW has a tablet that she reminds me I like to use to track our position on a river cruise. I don't regard having the latest gismo as a status symbol.

Again there will be plenty of cruises especially river cruises where apps are never going to be needed and pre-booking not needed

 

Can't happen on ships with 4,000 to 6.000 on board though

 

You must appreciate the logistics involved are entirely different

 

What are your choices for dining each night on a river cruise?

 

For example? 

 

 

[enjoysailing]

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

A quick stat search shows:

 

By 2025 - 95 per cent of UK population aged 16 plus will have a smartphone

 

Only 83 per cent of UK population approx will have a passport

 

Only 52 per cent of UK population holidayed abroad in 2023

 

 

I don't know where you get your stats from, but we are only 2 days into 2024 so the percentage of population using a smartphone as of end of 2023 would be more use. 

 

A quick search found this:

Mobile phone user statistics show that as of 2023, 98% of all adults aged 16-24 in the UK have a smartphone. Among the older age groups, 86% of those aged 55-64 owned a smartphone device compared to 80% aged 65 and above.

 

Who knows what is right, but I personally know 2 people in my small group of friends, aged in their 70's, that do not have a smartphone. I also can't see them deciding to get one.

 

Freedom dining worked perfectly well when it was first introduced on previous cruise lines I have sailed on. It only started to go wrong when the ability to make reservations was introduced. This took away the spontaneity and it became the problem it seems to be now. You seem to have decided it is because the numbers involved are so much more on the newer ships. But surely the number of crew for serving, and the size of the kitchens to deal with the preparation and cooking should have increased too. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

7 minutes ago, enjoysailing said:

I don't know where you get your stats from, but we are only 2 days into 2024 so the percentage of population using a smartphone as of end of 2023 would be more use. 

 

A quick search found this:

Mobile phone user statistics show that as of 2023, 98% of all adults aged 16-24 in the UK have a smartphone. Among the older age groups, 86% of those aged 55-64 owned a smartphone device compared to 80% aged 65 and above.

 

Who knows what is right, but I personally know 2 people in my small group of friends, aged in their 70's, that do not have a smartphone. I also can't see them deciding to get one.

 

Freedom dining worked perfectly well when it was first introduced on previous cruise lines I have sailed on. It only started to go wrong when the ability to make reservations was introduced. This took away the spontaneity and it became the problem it seems to be now. You seem to have decided it is because the numbers involved are so much more on the newer ships. But surely the number of crew for serving, and the size of the kitchens to deal with the preparation and cooking should have increased too. 

Yes but if you dont know where 5000 plus guests are going to use spontaneity to choose to dine  each night until they turn up what chance do those chefs and waiting staff have to be in right restaurants at the right time ?

 

Absolutely impossible 

 

My daughter is a chef. For a good quality restaurant they start prepping for their covers at least 6 hours before services starts

 

Only reason anybody on any of the big cruise ships can do walk ups in the first place is the vast vast majority are prepared to plan and pre-book and make it work for the small minority who wont

 

Yet some of that vast majority have detailed above more than once how walk up queues from people who won't pre-book are spoiling it for them

 

The very best restaurants in the UK you will be lucky to be able to book a table with less than 3 months planning or more

 

The very good ones will be fully booked most nights and every Sunday lunch (if they open Sundays)

 

You want to enjoy great food and service then in the real world you need to pre-book and the team serving you can plan and prep for you accordingly hours in advance 

 

Not ad hoc on the off chance you choose them last minute?

 

Think back to your favorite cruises and try and remember what your spontaneous choices actually were on the cruise?

 

I wager it's far less than you imagine? 

 

Spontaneity doesn't really exist very much all on traditional cruise ship tbh IMO

 

But people have a misconception it does

 

 

[zap99]

2 hours ago, crompton21 said:

 

Does anyone have experience of land based holidays where you can only get a meal if you use an app, to enter into a resort bar you must book with an app, to see entertainment you must book with an app etc.  

Probably my naivety but I would be quite shocked to find that sort of arrangement was now common place at most resorts.

Fortunately I am fully fit and healthy but there are people with disabilities who can't easily use a smart phone, visual impairment, muscle control to name a few of the possible reasons. It seems a shame to stop these people from taking a cruise, but maybe the 95% with a smartphone are the ones that count....  

Some overseas package hotels have apps to book speciality restaurants.  We have experienced those, also using a QR code to look at the menu and entertainment programme.  With Warner you need to book restaurant times and entertainment in advance of your stay.

[Interestedcruisefan]

20 minutes ago, enjoysailing said:

I don't know where you get your stats from, but we are only 2 days into 2024 so the percentage of population using a smartphone as of end of 2023 would be more use. 

 

A quick search found this:

Mobile phone user statistics show that as of 2023, 98% of all adults aged 16-24 in the UK have a smartphone. Among the older age groups, 86% of those aged 55-64 owned a smartphone device compared to 80% aged 65 and above.

 

Who knows what is right, but I personally know 2 people in my small group of friends, aged in their 70's, that do not have a smartphone. I also can't see them deciding to get one.

 

Freedom dining worked perfectly well when it was first introduced on previous cruise lines I have sailed on. It only started to go wrong when the ability to make reservations was introduced. This took away the spontaneity and it became the problem it seems to be now. You seem to have decided it is because the numbers involved are so much more on the newer ships. But surely the number of crew for serving, and the size of the kitchens to deal with the preparation and cooking should have increased too. 

So what if all 5000 choose olive grove one night

 

Or all 5000 choose MDR at 8pm one night 

 

You have to realise the vast majority are very happily pre-booking surely? 

 

Days in advance normally

 

God help us all on the big ships if they weren't?

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Some overseas package hotels have apps to book speciality restaurants.  We have experienced those, also using a QR code to look at the menu and entertainment programme.  With Warner you need to book restaurant times and entertainment in advance of your stay.

And with limitations on which speciality restaurants you can book and when

 

With the very best ones being severely limited