fire on star

[donna5]

That was not very kind of you.

 

First - I am diabetic.Woken up around 3:00 - 4:00 am and then not given food until noon would cause issues. I didnt suggest they stop and cook for them. Just something to pass out that could be grabbed quickly along with water. Most people would be fine but there's a few who wouldnt.

 

 

Just as they tell people in case of an emergency drill--take your medicine with you--if you have a prob. such as diabetic, you should have some food type in your room that can be taken in an emergency. (It should be no different than being on a shore excursion-you take some type of food with you I would hope--remember if there are high seas the food venues could also be closed.)

 

Although this incident is so tragic, it will give everyone things to think of in case of an emegency on the ship. We were just talking this morning about maybe taking a small trash bag or some type of bag to line the safe with, that could just be grabbed at the last minute in case of an emegency that has all the contents of the safe in it. Also those that sleep in the nude, might want to set out clothing to wear or grab in a hurry, especially good comfortable walking shoes.

 

Many things to think of.

Maybe cruise critic could start an "In Case Of Emergency" Thread on the first page of the Boards. Like a check list.

[amyr]

 

Although this incident is so tragic, it will give everyone things to think of in case of an emegency on the ship. We were just talking this morning about maybe taking a small trash bag or some type of bag to line the safe with, that could just be grabbed at the last minute in case of an emegency that has all the contents of the safe in it. Also those that sleep in the nude, might want to set out clothing to wear or grab in a hurry, especially good comfortable walking shoes.

 

 

These are very good ideas. Early in my airline career, they taught us about hotel fire safety, and I can't tell you how many times I've been blown out of bed in the middle of the night by a fire alarm. They taught us to always have a "fire outfit" near the bed to put on, and to always have our jewelry and medications in a cup by the bed and a flashlight nearby. Also, it's very important to have your room key on the nightstand as you may not have time to fish around a dark room for it. You may need it to get back into your room if the stairwells are on fire. Also, before you open the door to your room, feel the door with the back of your hands to make sure it isn't hot. That may mean the fire is right outside your door, and you don't want to open it. Your best hope at that point may be to wet some towels to put under the door and use the ice bucket to drench the door and wait for rescue. If you are able to leave your room, if you have time, wet a washcloth to breathe through in smoky corridors. Ship safety is obviously a little different, but we all stay in hotels too.

 

I'm sure those people on Star spent all those hours at their muster station because they may have at any time been required to get into those lifeboats that were ready for launch. You would never be released until you get an all clear that the fire is out, and no fire is smouldering inside a wall or bulkhead somewhere.

 

As Bdjam said above, I would assume that everyone on that ship has another job once an emergency has been declared and priorities are something like 1) save the ship 2) save lives and so on. Passenger comfort doesn't likely come until after the all clear, but something like a heart attack, diabetic coma, etc., was probably handled right away, I would guess.

[Former Goalie]

I wonder if anyone else has consider the idea that maybe the ship is to blame for the fire. Just a thought, that's all. Maybe a little spin factor to buy time to investigate thoughly, without complications from the media. A cruise member spreads the rumor that is was a passenger who was smoking that may have caused the fire. He/she tells it to someone who can spread it to the media. Ok, blame is, for now, shifted to a passenger, Princess is now out of the loop. Ok, this is really just speculation, that's all, nothing more. But could a smoldering butt do all of that damage? More than 100 cabins? Possbily. But what about an electrical fire? Each balcony has lights . Is that at all possbile? Heck I don't know. What I'm getting at is this is not the only possibility, right? There are so many ways this could have started, ask any fireman/woman. I'm am sure they could come up with a few more. The news outlets that I have seen since I have heard of this accident late today, have been telling us that the cruise line can not commit to the real reason of this fire. Truthfully, because they really just don't know yet.

Listen to the video again:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11975460/

They are not making an offical statement yet. They are using words like "apparently" and "suspected".

 

I guess all I'm really trying to get to is that the bickering about smokers should really stop. It's not been proven yet and thats not why we sign on to these boards. We all come here to read and write about our cruises and for our love of cruising. We are all like family here. Our perfect center is cruising, no matter how, why, where or what for. We may not all be of like minds, but one thing is for certain, everyone on this board loves to cruise, right? This thread was created to bring us all together,imform of us of the goings on, on ship, band us together and say our prayers for those who were on this life threatening cruise. And please don't forget to include Mr. Richard Liffidge, 75, of Georgia, who lost his life on this ship. His family will miss him dearly, and they deserve our continued prayers. Their pain must be just awful.

 

So let's just stop the meaness and get back to the fact that we really don't know what caused this fire, but that many many people were effected by this tragic event. If we want to talk about smokers and nonsmokers, than lets go to that thread, there are plenty people who love to hear us vent. In this thread we should offer our sympathies and any help these people need.

 

I appoligize if I have offended anyone in my statement, that was not my intention. Either read it again, without sharpness in your mind, or get over it. My intentions were and still are good.

 

My heart goes out to all those effected by this tragic event. You are all in my prayers.

 

 

Please forgive my misspellings, it's late and my spell check in on the fritz.

You did not offend me, as a matter of fact yours is the most thought provoking post on this topic I've read yet.

Anything we're reading up to this point is speculation, plain and simple. We haven't the slightest idea whether this was caused by a cigarette - or not. Because of the scope of this fire, I agree with you that any number of other scenarios are just as likely to have caused this tragic incident.

[negc]

That was not very kind of you.

 

First - I am diabetic.Woken up around 3:00 - 4:00 am and then not given food until noon would cause issues. I didnt suggest they stop and cook for them. Just something to pass out that could be grabbed quickly along with water. Most people would be fine but there's a few who wouldnt.

 

Second (my fault) I thought the musters were being used for roll call check-in. Then people were moved to safety locations - where there wasn't smoke - which may or may not have been at the muster stations. So I meant they could have been quicker with the check-in process, not letting them out to "roam around" in unsafe areas. My mispost or misunderstanding.

 

I'd appreciate an apology for insinuations that I suggest they stop fire fighting to cook them food. That is very insulting. I was merely concurring my sympathies. Some of our friends were on that ship and we are very concerned and worried.

 

L.A.S.T.

 

Sorry that my post offended you. For the record, I too am diabetic, but your original post did not indicate your particular situation. I still believe it is unrealistic to think that passing around some sort of snacks in the middle of a potential catastrophe would be high on their list of priorities. The musters are typically held in safe and secure locations, so even if the roll calls were completed in a matter of minutes, conditions apparently dictated that the guests remain in those locations for the full period of time. Letting them move off to other, perhaps equally safe, areas of the ship would only require getting them all back to their muster stations and checked in should it become necessary to evacuate the ship. That is extra time and effort that might not be available in such an instance.

 

Perhaps we should all back off on this matter until the official cause of the fire has been determined and then the success or failure of the procedures which were in place on the Star Princess can be better assessed and debated.

[bdjam]

That was not very kind of you.

 

First - I am diabetic.Woken up around 3:00 - 4:00 am and then not given food until noon would cause issues. I didnt suggest they stop and cook for them. Just something to pass out that could be grabbed quickly along with water. Most people would be fine but there's a few who wouldnt.

 

Second (my fault) I thought the musters were being used for roll call check-in. Then people were moved to safety locations - where there wasn't smoke - which may or may not have been at the muster stations. So I meant they could have been quicker with the check-in process, not letting them out to "roam around" in unsafe areas. My mispost or misunderstanding.

 

I'd appreciate an apology for insinuations that I suggest they stop fire fighting to cook them food. That is very insulting. I was merely concurring my sympathies. Some of our friends were on that ship and we are very concerned and worried.

I would really like to make you happy by apologizing, but I’m sorry, I can’t. Think about what you’re asking. In this situation it was lucky people got water. There was a ship and 4000 lives to save and I’m sure that people who would have been supplying the luxuries a cruise brings were busy trying to make sure that everyone came out alive.

If you are diabetic and were in need of food, I’m sure a crew member could have helped you. The post about food sounded like there was some sort of disappointment because a buffet wasn’t open.

If I was on board, I would certainly choose the 7 hours in a hot room with my life jacket strapped on and no food or water if it meant I didn’t have to spend a day or so in a life boat waiting for rescue.

[negc]

I would really like to make you happy by apologizing, but I’m sorry, I can’t. .

No need for you to apologize anyway, Brian. It was my post, after yours, that was deemed so offensive to the poster. We'll both just have to be more understanding in the future and consider all possible situations that aren't mentioned in a post before we comment.

[sultan_sfo]

Just like individuals, Princess would do well to PLAN for long stays in the Muster Location and should keep adequate emergency supply of non-perishable items such as candy, nuts, water. in the Muster Location. I am amused by the Princess supporters who always lay the blame on the Pax and who think that Princess is NEVER at fault. /Sultan

[negc]

I am amused by the Princess supporters who always lay the blame on the Pax and who think that Princess is NEVER at fault. /Sultan

 

But they are frequently balanced off by the cruiseline bashers who always blame the cruiseline and never the passengers. Actually, it would make a lot more sense to wait for the official report to be published before trying to assess blame. For all we know there may be more than enough to go around.

[Cruisin' Chick]

BBQ Bill:

I found Crusin' Chick's comments offensive and felt compelled to reply"

and

"How condescending"

 

Okay, since he’s accusing me of saying something offensive and condescending, I feel compelled to reply. Many of us aren’t saying it was a cigarette. We’re waiting to see if they can find the cause or even say they can’t. I certainly never said that. I was just pointing out maybe a bit too quickly yesterday (was going out the door at that point) that there would not be a problem with a cigarette on the Paradise. If Mr. Bill wants to think I’m calling all smokers "jerks", he’s just assuming. My husband and I would say to each other while on the cruise several times that the passengers were much more mellower than past cruises. It was noticable. We even were talking about the Paradise while looking at the damage done to the Star and he said it again, "If the Paradise was still non-smoking, we would have booked it in a minute when it came over here (to the West Coast, which is more convenient than the Caribbean)" and agreed with me, we wouldn’t have to worry about someone falling asleep in bed or on the balcony with a cigarette AND that the other passengers aboard that cruise were so pleasant to be around. Again, not a single jerk. I never said that every smoker is inconsiderate or a jerk. Next time, be careful not to accuse others of being offensive.

 

As for the Paradise, whenever it's mentioned in regard to the non-smoking status, many smokers will use that as an excuse that well, see it didn't work because of this or that. Carnival didn't try it out in other routes. Maybe it would have worked over here on the West Coast as there are many nonsmokings living here who would love a clean ship to gamble and drink on, and otherwise produce the secondary onboard revenue that was not being produced on its Caribbean run.

 

AS for those of us who are bringing up the smoking issue, it’s because we are concerned that a cigarette could start a fire. How many times have you listened to a news report about a house fire and the official word is that it was started by a cigarette? You’re not being honest if you disagree about that. And let’s not forget, we’re talking about an incident at sea. In a hotel or a house, it’s dangerous enough. But....

[SomeBeach]

If anyone is interested, Princess has just posted a news brief on their site....

http://www.princess.com/news

[sunshine426]

Live from the internet cafe on the Star Princess!! I haven't read every comment, because I need to go check on flights, but wanted to just put my word in quickly on the muster stations. I will write a full review when I arrive home. My two daughters and husband are fine, enjoying some Jamacian sunshine. We were in muster station two, and had water provided to us within 30 minutes of arriving. AJ from the pursers deck made rounds frequently to check on everyone. Once the fire was contained they opened the doors to the promenade deck so we had fresh air. And when my daughter had a hypolycemic attack, they quickly brought her some fresh fruit and milk. Yes roll call seemed to take forever, but I thought Princess was outstanding in their ability to keep us safe while the fire was contained and then put out. Most of the staff worked 24 plus hours! Anyway, I will come back and check in later if I don't fly out tongith. Princess is providing free internet. Karen

[SomeBeach]

Glad to hear from someone onboard. All the best to you as you make your way home.

[bdjam]

Just like individuals, Princess would do well to PLAN for long stays in the Muster Location and should keep adequate emergency supply of non-perishable items such as candy, nuts, water. in the Muster Location. I am amused by the Princess supporters who always lay the blame on the Pax and who think that Princess is NEVER at fault. /Sultan

First, would you advocate redesign of the Muster Station areas so that “snack” storage lockers would be available in these areas? How many times are passengers mustered during a cruise for a 7 hour period? Given that answer, how often would those supplies be used and how cost effective would it be to redesign these areas for storage and then store the items? Water is perishable and would have to be replaced regularly and other food items would soon come available from the galley once it was established that feeding the passengers was not low on the priority list.

 

Second, no one is laying any blame on passengers – my point is that the expectation is unreasonable. This was an emergency situation and there were more important things to deal with than making sure people had full stomachs. No one on this ship was starving – especially after five days of gluttony – for those seven hours, three to four of which they would have been asleep anyway.

 

Princess is NOT at fault in this case – the staff and crew on board the ship did what they were supposed to do – save the ship from becoming a burnt out hull, possibly saving 4000 lives. Anyone who feels their reaction was inadequate is living in some other universe. If it came to light that the ship went down because crew members were attending to people who needed a snack, I’m sure you’d be the first to jump on the bandwagon to blame the cruise line. Someone here has to balance those kinds of opinions.

Live from the internet cafe on the Star Princess!!

Thanks for checking in during what I'm sure is a stressful time.

[ihhk2]

Roll Call probably took a long time because of the EVER PRESENT PAX who:

 

1. Think they don't have to participate in Muster Drills before sailing and therefore, don't know where their station is.

 

2. Think that an alarm to GO to the Muster Stations isn't directly addressed to them and they therefore stay nice and cozy in their beds and don't answer their doors. Then, the crew has to go find them.

 

3. Think they can get past their part of roll call and then disappear. When roll call needs a confirmation or anything, they are nowhere to be found.

 

 

I can see the crew grabbing a piece of fruit for a pax who is sick or diabetic. However, in such a catastrophe, why is everyone so worried about being FED????? The fire started at 3AM... even 4 hours later is not an unusual time to expect the breakfast buffet to open. If food wasn't served until noon, even, that is NOT an exceptionally long time to wait under the circumstances. Princess should be commended on getting a meal together even THAT soon. And we ALL know that cruises provide plenty of food and probably no one was hungry when they went to bed.

 

Instead of worrying about being FED for a few hours, the concentration should have been placed on the situation at hand, not on the expectation of full service comforts during it.

 

What is WRONG with some people?????????? Worried about making sure muster stations are stocked with food so they can pass it around to alleviate boredom? Puhleeze!

[MaryPoppinz]

Believe me, no fire this serious could have been caused by one carelessly discarded cigarette. No way in an environment of high tech fire detection/suppression systems.

 

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what sort of high tech fire detection/suppression systems are on the balconies of Star Princess. Anyone know?

[sultan_sfo]

What is wrong wiith YOU?

Some Pax and children NEED sugar and other food for medical reasons. Yes -- Muster Locations should have lockers with food and water. Come On bdjam -- how much does it cost to turn over the water? They can sell the water every two weeks and replace it with fresh ones. bdjam -- you are the ultimate in "Princess Can Do No Wrong". In California, there is a constant reminder for each household to be prepared for earthquakes. In offices, kits are distributed. Yes -- once again: what is wrong with you? /Sultan

 

Instead of worrying about being FED for a few hours, the concentration should have been placed on the situation at hand, not on the expectation of full service comforts during it.

 

What is WRONG with some people?????????? Worried about making sure muster stations are stocked with food so they can pass it around to alleviate boredom? Puhleeze!

[spongerob]

Live from the internet cafe on the Star Princess!! I haven't read every comment, because I need to go check on flights, but wanted to just put my word in quickly on the muster stations. I will write a full review when I arrive home. My two daughters and husband are fine, enjoying some Jamacian sunshine. We were in muster station two, and had water provided to us within 30 minutes of arriving. AJ from the pursers deck made rounds frequently to check on everyone. Once the fire was contained they opened the doors to the promenade deck so we had fresh air. And when my daughter had a hypolycemic attack, they quickly brought her some fresh fruit and milk. Yes roll call seemed to take forever, but I thought Princess was outstanding in their ability to keep us safe while the fire was contained and then put out. Most of the staff worked 24 plus hours! Anyway, I will come back and check in later if I don't fly out tongith. Princess is providing free internet. Karen

 

Thanks, Karen. I'll be looking forward to your full report. By the sounds of it, everything is being handled as well as can be expected given the unusual circumstances.

[redrobin]

Live from the internet cafe on the Star Princess!! I haven't read every comment, because I need to go check on flights, but wanted to just put my word in quickly on the muster stations. I will write a full review when I arrive home. My two daughters and husband are fine, enjoying some Jamacian sunshine. We were in muster station two, and had water provided to us within 30 minutes of arriving. AJ from the pursers deck made rounds frequently to check on everyone. Once the fire was contained they opened the doors to the promenade deck so we had fresh air. And when my daughter had a hypolycemic attack, they quickly brought her some fresh fruit and milk. Yes roll call seemed to take forever, but I thought Princess was outstanding in their ability to keep us safe while the fire was contained and then put out. Most of the staff worked 24 plus hours! Anyway, I will come back and check in later if I don't fly out tongith. Princess is providing free internet. Karen

 

sunshine426,

First, glad to hear your family is doing OK. I cannot imagine how scary a situation it was for everyone.

Second, any general assessments on the condition of the Star. Would love to get a first hand account. Am scheduled to sail on the Star, and although the cruise hasn't been canceled, doubt that she will be ready in time. Thanks

[MaryPoppinz]

Some Pax and children NEED sugar and other food for medical reasons. Yes -- Muster Locations should have lockers with food and water.

 

I think it's reasonable to expect that a certain amount of water, protein source and emergency supplies are located in the muster stations, in the event there is a prolonged period of time in which passengers are confined there. They may well do this, for all we know??

 

My husband I discussed this situation last night (a prolonged muster) and resolved to have a small drawstring bag kept on the shelf with our lifejackets, in which we'd stash a couple of bottles of water, protein bars, a small supply of medication and a few other necessities/diversions. Something that could be grabbed quickly if we are sent to muster.

[bdjam]

What is wrong wiith YOU?

Some Pax and children NEED sugar and other food for medical reasons. Yes -- Muster Locations should have lockers with food and water. Come On bdjam -- how much does it cost to turn over the water? They can sell the water every two weeks and replace it with fresh ones. bdjam -- you are the ultimate in "Princess Can Do No Wrong". In California, there is a constant reminder for each household to be prepared for earthquakes. In offices, kits are distributed. Yes -- once again: what is wrong with you? /Sultan

Please read the post by Sunshine above - her daughter had a hypoglycemic episode during the muster. That should address your comment about those who NEED food. She also notes that water was distributed within 30 minuts. And as another poster indicated, most diabetics – those in my family included – keep careful watch over their medications and also small snacks in case they need them…the instructions for going to muster are that you take medication with you so that issues like that might be mitigated.

Princess can be blamed as much as you’d like for not offering a hospitable place for passengers to muster during an emergency. But you will not convince me being this was an emergency and there were more important things to think about than making sure people had food.

As for living in California and being prepared for an earthquake, I do and I am. However I don’t believe the logistics of preparing for an earthquake here can be equated to the logistics for preparing for – and I might add successfully addressing – an emergency at sea. If you’d like to call me the ultimate in “Princess Can Do No Wrong” you don’t know me or what I post on these threads very well. I like to think I’m the ultimate in common sense.

You can argue all you want, but in the case of Star Princess, Princess did right and the record of only one casualty proves it. What's wrong with me? Not a darn thing.

[sultan_sfo]

bdjam:

This sentence was addressed to the person whose post I quoted (see boldface on the quote). Here, I CAN agree -- nothing is wrong with you! After all if posters did not have different viewpoints, it would be very dull. /Sultan

 

 

... What's wrong with me? Not a darn thing.

[sultan_sfo]

Thanks. Geat Idea -- then one will not forget! A year ago, we evacuated from the 5th floor of an hotel -- even forgot our room key. 9-11 has left a sense of urgency in evacuations. /Sultan

 

My husband I discussed this situation last night (a prolonged muster) and resolved to have a small drawstring bag kept on the shelf with our lifejackets, in which we'd stash a couple of bottles of water, protein bars, a small supply of medication and a few other necessities/diversions. Something that could be grabbed quickly if we are sent to muster.

[Cruzwthme]

My thoughts and prayers are with all of you who experienced such a thing. It's all so very sad, and I'll keep you and your families in my prayers.

Tootsie

[captainron]

Oh well here we go again!!!

 

Bottom line as others have said is that we can speculate all we want. Fact is...wait for the professionals at the Transportation Board and other agencies to confirm/deny the rumours.

 

HOWEVER...and I say HOWEVER!!!, if it is found that the cause of the fire was an errant smoker who failed to extinguish his/her cigarette (causing millions of dollars of damage to the vessel, inconvenience for and endangering the lives of his/her fellow passengers) then this is the ultimate justification to restrict smoking on cruiseships to a designated smoking area that should be located on an aft lower deck or prohibit smoking onboard altogether.

 

In this day and age, where cabins are built as prefabricated units (not metal bulkheads) and literally hoisted into place on the appropriate deck, they are made of materials that are not the most flame resistant. Accordingly smoking on balconies as in cabins can cause this type of damage in a flash by people smoking and flicking unextinguished cigarette butts overboard...only to be blown back onboard due to the forward motion of the vessel.

 

I am an ex smoker and now ...I'll be honest, can't stand the smell of cigarettes, so to be on a cruise, I tolerate smokers but do not believe that because they feel they "have the right" to smoke and be careless, they have the right to put my life at risk due to their laissez-faire couldn't give a damn attitude.

 

If this was on the "Paradise" before reverting back to a smoking vessel, this incident would never have happened. If it is determined that this was caused as the result of an unextinguished cigarette, why should cruisellines pay the exorbitant insurance rates they do and pass the costs on by the higher fares. If there was no smoking on cruiseships then there would be one less risk to insure against thus reducing both operating costs and costs passed on to passengers.

 

Well that's it for the Friday politicization on this subject. Thanks for allowing me my 2 cents (oops a nickel or more now!!!).

 

Mary Poppinz,

 

If it was a "no duff" evacuation my dear you can stand and eat but the priority is doing a headcount, loading the lifeboats and launches and pulling away as quickly and safely as possible. Muster stations are exactly that for mustering for ship evacuation, not a dining/drinking opportunity for you on a cruise. Passengers are responsible for taking their own medication with them.

 

Do you really think the passengers on BC Ferries "Queen of the North" were worried about a glass of water or bite to eat at their muster stations when they were loading lifeboats on Tuesday nite at 1:30 am. 10-15 minutes after pulling away, she did a nose up and went to the bottom with only the loss of 2 lives, in a movement reminiscent of RMS Titanic.

 

I think you must remember that Muster Drill is there to save your lives and that is why it's mandatory by the US Coast Guard to conduct same, not to provide food and water. You must reevaluate your priorities...do you want to live or die going down with the ship.

Ciao for now!!!

[FlyingRev]

If it is determined that it was a passenger and his/her careless cigarette that caused the fire, could that passenger be sued for negligence, wrongful death, damages, etc.?

 

Just wondering what liability that person would have in light of the extensive damages as well as tragic loss of life and property as well as emotional distress.

 

Any ideas?