NCL: for sale?

[mikedw]

The guy who owns NCL can buy and purchase MSC many times over. I don't think all international crews is a good idea. Why do people think its better to spend US dollars on non-US help.....I know some of the NCLA crew and they work very hard. Don't be too sure that NCLA is just trying to scare the crew. You don't tell people about takeovers in advance. In fact if they were a public traded company leaking such infomation would be illegal....ask martha stewart(yes I know that is not what she was convicted of but is why they were after her)

 

I agree with you, the owner of NCL is a multi-billionaire. I said before that I think some people enjoy the international crews because the international crews feel subserviant to the passengers. Call it slave/master relationship and I think some people get off on that. An American crew will be professional and nice, but Americans I think in general don't feel that anyone is better then they are. I personally would rather sail an American Ship where I know the workers are getting a decent wage and are not taken advantage of and I'm helping the economy of my country. Don't let all the offices in Miami fool you, most cruise lines are incorporated in central or south America, and even in Africa and don't pay a dime in US taxes despited that majority of there passengers being from the US.

 

Michael Wasiljov

Hagerstown, MD

[seahorse]

I agree with you, the owner of NCL is a multi-billionaire. I said before that I think some people enjoy the international crews because the international crews feel subserviant to the passengers. Call it slave/master relationship and I think some people get off on that. An American crew will be professional and nice, but Americans I think in general don't feel that anyone is better then they are. I personally would rather sail an American Ship where I know the workers are getting a decent wage and are not taken advantage of and I'm helping the economy of my country. Don't let all the offices in Miami fool you, most cruise lines are incorporated in central or south America, and even in Africa and don't pay a dime in US taxes despited that majority of there passengers being from the US.

 

Michael Wasiljov

Hagerstown, MD

 

WHAT:eek: ??:mad:

[mikedw]

WHAT:eek: ??:mad:

 

Sorry if I offended you , but I do feel like some people, especially some of those who constantly put down American crew members as being extremely lazy get some sort of sick pleasure out of having foreigners cater to there every whim for a week. I believe they like to have someone feel subserviant to them, where as an American worker will do his or her job, but not jump through hoops and suck up to them just to get some extra money. And I should have been a little bit more clear, most of your major cruise lines except NCL America do not pay any US Corporate Income Tax, since they're incorporated overseas.

 

Michael Wasiljov

[electricron]

NCL's own web site says they lost $63 million for the first six months of 2006.

 

Yes, they did. But the Company has over $4 billion is assets.

 

If you look specifically at the operational profits and losses, NCL made $649 million in net operational revenues, and spent 571 million in net operational costs, or made a profit of $78 million operationally in the first six months.

 

The company's losses for the first half came from a significant increase in long term debt payments. Last year, in the first six months, NCL paid only $37.5 million in long term debt payments, this year NCL paid over $201 million in long term debt payments. That's a significant year to year increase in long term debt payments. If, per chance, next years' long term debt payments are more in line with last year's than this year's, NCL would make a huge profit.

 

I don't know what next year's long term debt payments are, or should be. But one thing is for certain, it's no where close to being the same from year to year.

[mjsshipboy]

The latest word that I heard from people "In the know" is that MSC is to buy NCL. Star wants to concentrate on expanding their core business and a lot of poor business decisions are casuing NCL to eat money as though it is going out of fashion.

 

Whether NCL will retain it's name and brand or if it will merge with MSC is to be seen. Personally, I see MSC positioning itself against Celebrity (And the company is now run by a lot of ex-Celebrity Cruises staff) and NCL being the Royal Caribbeanesque mainstream brand.

 

I think that MSC is a MUCH better suitor to NCL than Star. They also have bottomless pockets, being backed by one of the biggest commercial shipping companies in the world.

 

Whilst Star/NCL could afford to buy MSC's Cruise Operations, no way could they afford to buy MSC as a whole. They operate many ports in Europe and beyond and also hjave a HUGE fleet of cargo and container ships and also trucking transport around the world.

[bmwman]

Yes, they did. But the Company has over $4 billion is assets.

 

If you look specifically at the operational profits and losses, NCL made $649 million in net operational revenues, and spent 571 million in net operational costs, or made a profit of $78 million operationally in the first six months.

 

The company's losses for the first half came from a significant increase in long term debt payments. Last year, in the first six months, NCL paid only $37.5 million in long term debt payments, this year NCL paid over $201 million in long term debt payments. That's a significant year to year increase in long term debt payments. If, per chance, next years' long term debt payments are more in line with last year's than this year's, NCL would make a huge profit.

 

I don't know what next year's long term debt payments are, or should be. But one thing is for certain, it's no where close to being the same from year to year.

 

I think there is some confusion here between profit and available cash flow! The problem APPEARS and I have no inside knowledge that the cost of the new ships is comming home to roost at a time when fuel costs are high and the travel market is in a poor condition.

 

I can only imagine that whilst the new ships should mean more revenue will it be sufficient to meet the increased capital repayments and profit contribution.

 

Also bear in mind new ships are only new once and once the novelty wears off they are in tne mass market. - Maybe the Dawn is an exception to the Rule.

 

I understand from a fellow cruiser who has been on the Dawn recently that it is in need of some serious money for refurbishment. Remember when a shipis being refurbished it is not earning revenue and using cash!

[shoreguy]

Sorry if I offended you , but I do feel like some people, especially some of those who constantly put down American crew members as being extremely lazy get some sort of sick pleasure out of having foreigners cater to there every whim for a week. I believe they like to have someone feel subserviant to them, where as an American worker will do his or her job, but not jump through hoops and suck up to them just to get some extra money. And I should have been a little bit more clear, most of your major cruise lines except NCL America do not pay any US Corporate Income Tax, since they're incorporated overseas.

 

Michael Wasiljov

 

Better recheck your tax laws if you don't think companies incorporated overseas don't pay taxes on income generated from US sales.

[newmexicoNita]

The latest word that I heard from people "In the know" is that MSC is to buy NCL. Star wants to concentrate on expanding their core business and a lot of poor business decisions are casuing NCL to eat money as though it is going out of fashion.

 

Whether NCL will retain it's name and brand or if it will merge with MSC is to be seen. Personally, I see MSC positioning itself against Celebrity (And the company is now run by a lot of ex-Celebrity Cruises staff) and NCL being the Royal Caribbeanesque mainstream brand.

 

I think that MSC is a MUCH better suitor to NCL than Star. They also have bottomless pockets, being backed by one of the biggest commercial shipping companies in the world.

 

Whilst Star/NCL could afford to buy MSC's Cruise Operations, no way could they afford to buy MSC as a whole. They operate many ports in Europe and beyond and also hjave a HUGE fleet of cargo and container ships and also trucking transport around the world.

I am not questioning you and the idea is interesting and very possible, but I am always amazed at the comment "people in the know" or similar statements. It's like saying, I talked to crew members on NCLA or some other ship and they said. Prior to becoming a TA I was in management for a large hotel chain call center (I think I mentioned this back when this thread started) We always had the inside story about this sale, this acquistion, etc. lol So far 20 years later the hotel chain has not been sold and I doubt it will be. So far on this thread we have heard how much NCL lost the first 2 quarters of the year, we have heard a rumor or two that Carnival is trying to buy NCL, that MSC is about to purchase them, we have heard it is just NCLA, and about 3 or 4 other stories. Obviously something is in the works.

 

NMNita

[henri]

As I'm on Jewel next month, and is first time on NCL, I cannot judge good or bad for NCL, but as I sailed MSC for 45 days now I know (for me) what that product is.

And I can not beforehand agree with lots of Europeans who find/says NCL has VERY bad name, as regarding Europeans.

From some forum like this..

"Quote" Norwegian Cruise Lines have such a bad name that I think it would be terrible for MSC to take them on board "Quote".:eek:

But within the plans of MSC to very fast expand in Asia, they can use some ships for that, as they are very well known in Asia with their container-vessels.:D

Henri.

[Goldryder]

NCL have just put orders in for two newbuilds and an option for a third...

 

4200 passengers each, 150000 tonnes each from Aker at St Nazaire...

[ute_fan]

Henri (love your location, by the way), brings up an interesting point. If MSC is interested in expending into Asia, could this be an acquisition of not only NCL but Star lines?

 

By the way, if the sale to MSC does go through, I'd be interested in hearing your comments about their operations. It sounds like you've got quite a bit of sailing experience with them.

[shoreguy]

NCL have just put orders in for two newbuilds and an option for a third...

 

4200 passengers each, 150000 tonnes each from Aker at St Nazaire...

 

I guess they are being purchased ;)

 

http://www.ncl.com/news/pr/pr090706.htm

 

 

Miami – Thursday, September 7, 2006 -- NCL Corporation Ltd. announced today that it has entered into a contract with Aker Yards S.A. of France to build up to three new cruise ships, totaling 12,600 berths for delivery between 2009 and 2011. The contract price, comprising two firm ships and one option, is €2.17 billion, or approximately $2.8 billion at today’s exchange rate.

 

 

One way to keep from being acquired assume more debt.

[newlywedcruisers]

One way to keep from being acquired assume more debt.

Ha! "Interesting strategy, lets see how it works out for them." (from the movie Dodgeball)

[shoreguy]

Ha! "Interesting strategy, lets see how it works out for them." (from the movie Dodgeball)

 

If you read between the lines NCLA could still be in play. Without that operation NCL is doing great. May yet be another shoe to drop.

 

NCL’s President and CEO, Colin Veitch, said: “This order is a strong statement of our confidence in the North American cruise industry and NCL’s leading role in it. Our U.S. flag start-up costs have obscured, for the past two years, the attractive financial returns on the international fleet of ships that we have built since Star Cruises bought NCL. All our growth from now on will be in this strongly profitable sector of our fleet, and will take us well past the goal we set ourselves of having the youngest fleet in the industry and a transformed financial profile by 2010.”

[newlywedcruisers]

If you read between the lines NCLA could still be in play. Without that operation NCL is doing great. May yet be another shoe to drop.

I thought NCLA was where most of the debt resided, or is it becuase of the GEM and PEARL that the debt lies with the NCL brand not NCLA?

[shoreguy]

I thought NCLA was where most of the debt resided, or is it becuase of the GEM and PEARL that the debt lies with the NCL brand not NCLA?

 

Not talking debt but operating margin. NCL ships are making money. NCLA ship loose money on every passenger at the current fares.

[smeyer418]

actually what upsets me more if this is true(NCLA going bye bye to MSC) is the SS US won't be coming back. Reading between the lines on Mr. Veitch's quote on another thread without a mention of NCLA.....I think they would give it another year to see if would work out. Personally I think the only way to make Hawaii work for interisland cruising is luxury small ships with high prices and hotel service to match....

[smeyer418]

another dup and I hit it only once

[garycarla]

Did I miss something. Gone for a day and there was a thread about NCL being sold yesterday, though most thought it was a rumor. Seems a wife of a crew member had what she felt was valid news. That thread is now gone.

 

What happened?

[smeyer418]

Did I miss something. Gone for a day and there was a thread about NCL being sold yesterday, though most thought it was a rumor. Seems a wife of a crew member had what she felt was valid news. That thread is now gone.

 

What happened?

 

I think its been intergrated into this thread. I think you should describe it as a reportably knowledgeable rumor. I don't think its news yet. Given Colin's press release that emphasized NCL and not NCLA, I think we think there may be something to it. There has been no denial(which wouldn't stop the speculation anyway)...

[newmexicoNita]

I think we all beleive something is going on, but when someones says they heard it from a reliable sourse, I just shrug my shoulders and say, we will wait and see. Call me the skeptical which I am, but it takes a lot to convince me rumors are true. Sid, I am in agreement with you: i honestly think the only way an American flagged ship is going to make it will be the high end, small ships, etc. It is too bad isn't it?

 

Nita

[electricron]

Wow! I knew NCL/Star Cruises had to be ordering new ships soon to get a place in line at a shipyard for new build ships. I'm surprised how big they are going to be, 150,000 gross tons and 4200 passengers (double occupancy) is larger than the 130,000 gross tons and 3,600 passengers (double occupancy) I was expecting.

 

With two of these giants on order for delivery in 2009 and 2010 and an option for a third for delivery in 2011, NCL will be able to continue to compete in Miami and New York against the other main stream cruise lines (Carnival and Royal Caribbean). Their 92,000 gross tons ships ship will be large enough to compete everywhere else. All NCL smaller ships (less than 80,000 gross tons)will be sailing around Hawaii most of the year by this time, except for the Spirit.

 

If these ships arrive on time, I would expect one, either the Majesty and Dream to leave NCL's fleet in 2009, and the other in 2010, with their itineraries being replaced by NCL's 92,000 gross tons ships, or by the Spirit. By 2010 /2011, I expect the Spirit to eventually be doing the Dream's South American and Baltic cruises as the Dream starts next year. Which means eventually Boston, Charleston, New Orleans and Houston will have a 92,000 gross tons ship if NCL continues to sail from these home ports.

 

Here's a Summer season 2011 potential lineup:

 

Hawaii: POA (77,000 gross tons), POAm (82,000 gross tons), POH (92,000 gross tons)

Baltic: Spirit (76,800 gross tons)

Mediterranean: New (150,000 gross tons)

New York: New (150,000 gross tons) and Gem (92,000 gross tons)

Boston: Jewel (92,000 gross tons)

Alaska: Star and Pearl (Two 92,000 gross tons), and Sun (77,000 gross tons)

Where will the third 150,000 gross tons go?

[Guest LetMeGo]

The rumors earlier involved NCL being acquired by MSC cruises -- not Costa. Costa is owned by Carnival, and it seems like if that was the case, the acquisition would be more likely to be by Carnival than Costa.

 

It will be interesting to see what additional news comes out over the next few days.

 

I wouldn't say that it's impossible for Costa to buy at least the NCLA ships if they want to... Costa already bought the German Aida cruises a few years ago, and in addition to the four current ships they also have four orders for new ships on that brand. :eek:

 

But it is indeed interesting to see how things turn out. :D

[Goldryder]

Wow! I knew NCL/Star Cruises had to be ordering new ships soon to get a place in line for new build ships. I'm surprised how big they are going to be, 150,000 gross tons and 4200 passengers (double occupancy) is larger than the 130,000 gross tons and 3,600 passengers (double occupancy) I was expecting.

 

With two of these giants on order for delivery in 2009 and 2010 and an option for a third for delivery in 2011, NCL will be able to continue to compete in Miami and New York against the other main stream cruise lines (Carnival and royal Caribbean). Their 92,000 gross tons ships ship will be large enough to compete everywhere else. All NCL smaller ships 9 less than 80,000 gross tons)will be sailing around Hawaii most of the year by this time, except for the Spirit.

 

If these ships arrive on time, I would expect one, either the Majesty and Dream to leave NCL's fleet in 2009, and the other in 2010, with their itineraries being replaced by NCL's 92,000 gross tons ships, or by the Spirit. By 2010 /2011, I expect the Spirit to eventually be doing the Dream's South American and Baltic cruises as the Dream starts next year. Which means eventually Boston, Charleston, New Orleans and Houston will have a 92,000 gross tons ship if NCL continues to sail from these home ports.

 

 

Marco Polo is going too, leaving the oldest ship in the fleet as Spirit built in 1998.

 

By getting rid of Polo, they will get rid of the Orient Lines marque and heritage which is a bad thing...just as CCL getting rid of Swan Hellenic is bad.

 

Where do the cruisers go who want small ships with more specialised itineraries?

 

Princess is about to stick one of their big things in Antarctica in January which potentially could prove detrimental to the environment.

 

Big is NOT better...this one line trying to beat another crap will never work, not everyone likes big ships...Genesis class, one of the Freedom class, one of the new NCL giants and a Princess ship all in Caymen Island port at the same time...yeah right...it will ruin the environment and destroy the infrastructure.

 

Thank goodness there are still small ship operators who don't go into the 'my ship is bigger than your's' crap.

 

Have a Genesis sink or run aground, spill all sorts into the sea...then turn round and say big is best...its all spherical objects.

[shoreguy]

Which means eventually Boston, Charleston, New Orleans and Houston will have a 92,000 gross tons ship if NCL continues to sail from these home ports.

 

And where does a 92K ship from Boston go. :confused: 8 day Bermuda Fla., 6 day 2 night Kings wharf . 10/11 day to the eastern Crib. No more St. George or Hamilton. :(

 

Don't even mention the plans to widen the harbors that idea has gone nowhere in Bermuda.

 

 

I will say that Hugo was right when he told me on the Dawn I would be surprised with what they were planning:cool: 5000 passengers on a Freestyle NCL Ship. I can,t wait to see the plans. Think they wil finally put a retractable top on the pool area and bring one to NYC:D

 

One thing for sure they will not be doing Alaska.