ship sizes?

[m steve]

I read today the one cruise line is planning to build all their new ships to hold at least 4000 passengers. That sounds like a headache waiting to happen. Lines are too long already for the 2000 pp ships and why would you want to sail with that many fellow passengers. Everything would have to be doubled from the shops to the casino and how many dining rooms would be needed? And show rooms?

Plus most of the ports can't dock ships of that size so the life boats would be running constantly. Just disembarking at any port would make it necessary to have longer hours at every port and I guess fewer ports on each cruise to make up the time.

[osiebosie]

Our last cruise was on the Carnival Glory, which holds 2,974 double occupancy. Do the math. However, for the most part, lines weren't too bad unless the entire pax group had to do something, like immigration. Of course, it was a huge ship! I really don't think, though I'd go much bigger.

 

On the flip side, we were on the Carnival Holiday a couple of years ago, over the New Year's holiday. The Holiday is an old, small ship. But CC packed so many people in it because of the price increase due to the holiday that it was unreal. Disembarking was a nightmare. Actually, that was the cruise where the prop system broke, so we, sardines that we were, got to cruise the gulf of Mexico in circles for five days. Not the best cruise.

 

We're going to be on the Constellation soon and it holds 1950 pax. Now that's what I like. A new ship that's not too huge.

 

After reading some of these threads, it seems like cruising is a fast changing industry, being more about the almighty dollar.

 

Shay

[megabill]

Celebrity has 3 ships on order (Solstice Class), but they do not exceed 2850-pax (double occ.) and at only 118,000 GRT they shouldn't be any more of a problem than similarly sized ships on other lines.

 

RCCL on the other hand - i believe has a new class in the works that are expecting to be huge. If memory serves me right, should be in the range of 240,000 or 260,000 -GRT. But thats another topic entirely, eh?

[rebeccalouise]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I think that the Constellation is just the right size and I am not planning to go on any ships that are bigger.

You are going to love the Constellation.

One small but significant aspect of this ship (and the other M class ships) are the four glass elevators on the port side. They move quickly and it is so nice to look out over the sea while you are going from floor to floor. I used these elevators as much as possible- felt like heaven.

 

Whoever designed the Constellation really came up with the perfect sailing vessel. Lots of glass, lovely decor, huge buffet area with lovely seating, elegant dining room, beautiful cabins.

 

There is nothing that I didn't like about the ship. Except maybe that the dance floor in lounge outside of the diningroom was too small to do a good waltz but it didn't stop me from dancing night after night!

[Voyager]

I read today the one cruise line is planning to build all their new ships to hold at least 4000 passengers. That sounds like a headache waiting to happen. Lines are too long already for the 2000 pp ships and why would you want to sail with that many fellow passengers. Everything would have to be doubled from the shops to the casino and how many dining rooms would be needed? And show rooms?

Plus most of the ports can't dock ships of that size so the life boats would be running constantly. Just disembarking at any port would make it necessary to have longer hours at every port and I guess fewer ports on each cruise to make up the time.

Just an FYI, they do not use life boats to get to the Island when they cant dock. They use Tenders.

From the dictionary: Tender an auxiliary ship employed to attend one or more other ships, as for supplying provisions.

[greeneg]

One way to look at this sort of question is to compare hull tonnage with passenger capacity. One of the things that is not infrequently overlooked is that Celebrity, by and large, will carry fewer passengers on the same size hull. This, may not necessarily result in larger cabins, but in our experience, it does result in more generous public spaces and a less crowded feel to the ship.

 

For comparison: the following table may be of some use.

 

Cruise Line Class ( Ship) Tonnage Passengers Ratio

 

Celebrity Millenium 91000 2034 44.7

Celebrity Mercury 77,000 1886 41.2

Celebrity Zenith 46,811 1370 34.2

 

RCCL Radience 90,090 2501 36.02

RCCL Voyager 138,000 3114 44.3

RCCL Vision 78,491 2435 32.23

RCCL Sovereign 73,192 2852 25.66

RCCL Empress 48,563 2020 24.04

 

 

Ratio= listed tonnage divided by passenger capacity.

 

All Data from Cruise line Home pages.

 

By and large, the larger the ratio the more "comfortable" I find the ship to be.

 

Hope this is of some use.

[caviargal]

Celebrity has 3 ships on order (Solstice Class), but they do not exceed 2850-pax (double occ.) and at only 118,000 GRT they shouldn't be any more of a problem than similarly sized ships on other lines.

 

RCCL on the other hand - i believe has a new class in the works that are expecting to be huge. If memory serves me right, should be in the range of 240,000 or 260,000 -GRT. But thats another topic entirely, eh?

 

The space-to-passenger ratio on Solstic comes to 41. This is too big and too crowded for me personally to consider.

 

The ratios below are a good gauge. I have been on Soverign twice this summer and the ship is very congested. Mercury did not feel crowded at all but there were very few families onboard so the cabins were populated differently. As far as Radiance vs Voyager, it may be larger ratio wise but the huge Promenade area accounts for a lot of space.

 

Carnival's Glory was the single most overcrowded and congested ship I have ever sailed. The Voyager class of RCI are quite a bit larger and proportionately more favorable but still too crowded. Freedom of the Seas was far too large and impersonal in every aspect.

 

This is all a matter of opinion but M class on X is as large as ever plan to cruise.

[geoherb]

The Princess Grand-class ships are the largest I've been on--109,000 tons/2,600 passengers. And I don't want to go on anything much larger than them.

 

Our last two cruises have been on the Century and HAL's Maasdam. We're going the opposite of the trend--smaller ships instead of large ones.

[raymac46]

Just an FYI, they do not use life boats to get to the Island when they cant dock. They use Tenders.

From the dictionary: Tender an auxiliary ship employed to attend one or more other ships, as for supplying provisions.

Having occupied a stateroom overlooking the boat deck on the Constellation, I can confirm that a tender and a lifeboat are indeed different watercraft.

A lifeboat is a single hull, single screw craft whereas a tender is a catamaran design with twin screws. I'd say it's far more maneuverable and roomy than a lifeboat. The tender pilots turned them on a dime using the engines.

[Sky Sweet]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I think that the Constellation is just the right size and I am not planning to go on any ships that are bigger.

You are going to love the Constellation.

One small but significant aspect of this ship (and the other M class ships) are the four glass elevators on the port side. They move quickly and it is so nice to look out over the sea while you are going from floor to floor. I used these elevators as much as possible- felt like heaven.

 

Whoever designed the Constellation really came up with the perfect sailing vessel. Lots of glass, lovely decor, huge buffet area with lovely seating, elegant dining room, beautiful cabins.

 

There is nothing that I didn't like about the ship. Except maybe that the dance floor in lounge outside of the diningroom was too small to do a good waltz but it didn't stop me from dancing night after night!

 

Hi RebeccaLouise :)

 

I agree with everything you have posted about the Constellation. We took a Baltic Cruise on the Constellation this past summer and miss her so much that we will be on her again within the next two months.

[greeneg]

The space-to-passenger ratio on Solstic comes to 41. This is too big and too crowded for me personally to consider.

 

The ratios below are a good gauge. I have been on Soverign twice this summer and the ship is very congested. Mercury did not feel crowded at all but there were very few families onboard so the cabins were populated differently. As far as Radiance vs Voyager, it may be larger ratio wise but the huge Promenade area accounts for a lot of space.

 

Carnival's Glory was the single most overcrowded and congested ship I have ever sailed. The Voyager class of RCI are quite a bit larger and proportionately more favorable but still too crowded. Freedom of the Seas was far too large and impersonal in every aspect.

 

This is all a matter of opinion but M class on X is as large as ever plan to cruise.

 

 

With a Tonnage to Passenger ratio of 41, the Soltice Class fall right in the same ratio as the Mercury and only slightly less than the M Class which I have to admit do have a "spacious" feel to them.

 

Having said that, I would have to admit that I don't care for the additional passengers on the proposed Solstice ships and despite the fairly favorable ratio, have no plans to sail on them, UNLESS Celebrity comes up with one heck of a creative itinerary at one heck of a price. From what I have seen so far, creativity is not one of the planning departements stronger points.

 

Our favorite Celebrity ship is still Zenith for all of the fact that she is getting dated; the pride that the Crew takes in Her and the level of service that we have consistantly received while on board will keep bringing us back.

 

Size does matter, but bigger isn't always better........

[caviargal]

With a Tonnage to Passenger ratio of 41, the Soltice Class fall right in the same ratio as the Mercury and only slightly less than the M Class which I have to admit do have a "spacious" feel to them.

 

Having said that, I would have to admit that I don't care for the additional passengers on the proposed Solstice ships and despite the fairly favorable ratio, have no plans to sail on them, UNLESS Celebrity comes up with one heck of a creative itinerary at one heck of a price. From what I have seen so far, creativity is not one of the planning departements stronger points.

 

Our favorite Celebrity ship is still Zenith for all of the fact that she is getting dated; the pride that the Crew takes in Her and the level of service that we have consistantly received while on board will keep bringing us back.

 

Size does matter, but bigger isn't always better........

 

I loved Zenith and Horizon when they were new but have not been on them since. I prefer smaller ships overall as well.

 

The new Solstice ships will be outfitted with cabins that can accomodate families - more so than todays ships - and amenities that will attract families as well. To me, this changes the "fee" of the ship overall. I like the fact that X ships are fairly sedate, compared to what RCI ships have become. Food and service are easier to keep consistent on smaller ships as well, and interaction with fellow passengers easier and more personal.

 

I think the new class of X's ship will not likely attract what has til now been the core of their demographic. Unfortunately, if they do not do a better job of upkeeping their current fleet, even the diehard X fans will look elsewhere.

 

IMO, Solstice class will be just another big ship offering in what is becoming a homogenized big ship market.

 

Since I don't plan to cruise on one, I will be interested to read the reports who do, especially those that appreciate X at their best.

[megabill]

I have actaully been quite curious to see the proposed plans for the Solstice-class ships. Outside of the 3 press-releases (one for each ship ordered) I haven't been able to find anything except for some rumors about what to expect.

 

Does anyone have links to articles or pictures of the proposed features?

[m steve]

They sure look the same to me. I guess when the ship is sinking the captain announces that you must take a life boat, not a tender as they are only used to shuttle people back and forth from port. At safety muster they don't not have lines in front of tenders. I hope that they keep them fully gassed for emergencies.

And with 4000 passenger plus at least 1000 crew I bet there would be a traffic problem getting out of each others way.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone !

 

I find these comments to be very interesting. Several mention they have no desire to sail the Solstice class. I have one question.... how can we make various comments on what the ship will be like, when nothing official has been announced by Celebrity ?

 

I understand many of us do not like, or want bigger ships (I am not thrilled with the Mega-ships myself). However, this entire industry is obsessed with building MUCH larger ships. Whether we like it or not, Cruise ships will be getting bigger in the coming years.

 

Keep in mind that Celebrity could have easily gone with the Solstice class being in the range of 150,000 tons. Thankfully, they settled on ships in the 118,000 ton range. It could have been worse. The good news is, for those who do not wish to sail on the larger ships, they can sail on M-Class or C-Class ships.

 

With Royal Caribbean's purchase of Pullmantur, maybe some R-Class ships (30,000 tons) might be in Celebrity's future. I feel it is a possibility. Time will tell.

 

Until we know more about the Solstice class ships, I have no plans to be concerned about Solstice. Frankly, I cant wait to hear more about them. Knowing how Celebrity has built wonderful ships in the past, I am totally confident the Solstice Class will be a winner.

[megabill]

Agreed. As I said - outside of some rumors, Celebrity has not announced any designs for these ships - in terms of amenities, etc. I haven't even been able to get ahold of renderings of public spaces.

 

There is also about 2 years until the delivery of the first ship... so obviously what may be planned today may not make it to production tomorrow.

 

In terms of the size issues- I've been on a couple of the smaller ships and dont particularly have anything against them. But same for the larger ships. (and of course a few ships in between.) The larger ships tend to offer more- without specifics: sports, shops, louges, and so on. Of course - there are times that I agree, bigger isn't necessarily better and the smaller ships make for a better voyage. I find a closer group of passengers (not physically - socially) and sometimes people (myself included) prefer one of ther the other. (for me it depends on the specific voyage.)

 

I must say that I'm also glad to hear that Celebrity has gone back to Germany for the new class. The 4 ML class ships were built in France and from what i've seen continue to have problem after problem. Meyer-Werft ships (CN Class) from what i've heard, tend to be better-built

[Andy]

I must say that I'm also glad to hear that Celebrity has gone back to Germany for the new class. The 4 ML class ships were built in France and from what i've seen continue to have problem after problem. Meyer-Werft ships (CN Class) from what i've heard, tend to be better-built

 

Hi Megabill !

 

As I am very happy with the C-Class ships, I agree that Celebrity made the right choice in choosing Meyer-Werft to build the Solstice Class. I hope they can be successful again !

[LeftcoastBC]

I too like the smaller ship...it now being just the Zenith. but the pax/tonne ratio can really be noticed when the Zenith is "Full"

 

Celebrity Millenium 91000 2034 44.7

Celebrity Mercury 77,000 1886 41.2

Celebrity Zenith 46,811 1370 34.2

 

Having been on the Infinity a couple of times I can say that bigger can be better. .. but....if you luck out on a not so full Zenith it's marvelous..

[Sky Sweet]

i think that space per passenger, crew per passenger, and the design of a ship are more important attributes than size per se. A small ship with tiny cabins and limited public areas can feel more crowded and understaffed than a very large ship that has spacious cabins and an abundance of cozy public areas that are well staffed.

[greeneg]

Andy, I wish that I could totally share your optimisim about the Solstice Class being "winners" but I'm not quite that certain. What I hear and read would imply that Celebrity may be changing its target passengers from the current group which are probably a little older, more affluent, and perhaps more concerned with service and quality in a relaxed but still structured environment, to a younger, more intensly family oriented and compressed approach, organized around shorter cruise programs. While there is nothing inherently wrong with changing your target market, this to me would seem to be moving towards the RCCL population rather than the traditional Celebrity Cruiser. Again, I am not saying that the RCCL Experience is inherently a bad one, but it is a little different than the expectations that, I for one, have for Celebrity.

 

I have been told on several occasions by Celebrity Staff who were in positions at the time where they should have known what they were talking about, that one of the unique things about Celebrity was the high percentage of repeat cruisers to which the Line has appealed over the years: on our last Zenith Cruise, the number of passengers who had cruised Celebrity previously was over 90%, which I find almost astonishing!

 

It seems to me that if you are that sucessful in generating repeat buisness, that perhaps you shouldn't be too quick to change your focus.

 

And THAT, is what I am a little afraid that Management may be doing. Bigger ships, unimaginative, repetitive itineraries, nickle and dimeing passengers to generate apparent additional revenue, limited maintenance and diminished Customer Relations and Service would seem to me to be the route to something other than the Traditional Celebrity Experience. And that, IMHO, is not the product that the Traditional Celebrity Passenger is likely to buy over the long haul.

 

I know one thing: I ain't climbing no rock wall on no Solstice.....:)

[rebeccalouise]

We first sailed as a family on the Celebrity Zenith in April 2001. Liked it so much we went back for our wedding anniversary in October 2001. Then took a break from cruising because our son was a toddler. When he turned three I went on Carnival (four night) to see how that went. It was great so I booked an 8 night cruise on the Galaxy. That was fantastic. Then did a 14 night on Millenium- even better! Then did a 10 night on the Constellation in April- the best cruise yet.

I have already booked two more Celebrity cruises for next year.

That makes a total of 7 Celebrity cruises in the past 6 years.

So they do indeed have a repeat market.

I am not anxious to try the Solstice or Equinox though. I think Constellation is just the right size.

[raymac46]

I think they use the tenders as lifeboats but not vice versa. I'm sure both of them are well maintained and ready in case of emergency but somehow I don't think the buffet would be quite as good on a lifeboat (or tender for that matter.)

[Andy]

Andy, I wish that I could totally share your optimisim about the Solstice Class being "winners" but I'm not quite that certain. What I hear and read would imply that Celebrity may be changing its target passengers from the current group which are probably a little older, more affluent, and perhaps more concerned with service and quality in a relaxed but still structured environment, to a younger, more intensly family oriented and compressed approach, organized around shorter cruise programs. While there is nothing inherently wrong with changing your target market, this to me would seem to be moving towards the RCCL population rather than the traditional Celebrity Cruiser. Again, I am not saying that the RCCL Experience is inherently a bad one, but it is a little different than the expectations that, I for one, have for Celebrity.

 

I have been told on several occasions by Celebrity Staff who were in positions at the time where they should have known what they were talking about, that one of the unique things about Celebrity was the high percentage of repeat cruisers to which the Line has appealed over the years: on our last Zenith Cruise, the number of passengers who had cruised Celebrity previously was over 90%, which I find almost astonishing!

 

It seems to me that if you are that sucessful in generating repeat buisness, that perhaps you shouldn't be too quick to change your focus.

 

And THAT, is what I am a little afraid that Management may be doing. Bigger ships, unimaginative, repetitive itineraries, nickle and dimeing passengers to generate apparent additional revenue, limited maintenance and diminished Customer Relations and Service would seem to me to be the route to something other than the Traditional Celebrity Experience. And that, IMHO, is not the product that the Traditional Celebrity Passenger is likely to buy over the long haul.

 

I know one thing: I ain't climbing no rock wall on no Solstice.....:)

 

Hi Ed !

 

All I can say, is that I am fairly confident Celebrity will not radically change their target market. Celebrity KNOWS they have a VERY loyal client base, and a huge number of repeat Cruisers. I feel they would be nothing short of insane to change what has been working for them. If they wanted to change this line into some form of Royal Caribbean, then why not just merge the Celebrity fleet into Royal Caribbean, and call it a day with Celebrity ? I cant see that happening.

 

I agree with your concerns about nickle and diming, and unimaginative itineraries. I hope Celebrity will find a way to deal with those concerns. As for bigger ships ? Well, we may not like them, but they are going to be a reality for the forseeable future.

 

Of course, we will not know whether you or I will be right, until the ships start sailing, but I know I wont be losing any sleep over this possibility... not yet anyway !

 

Oh, and by the way ? I wont be climbing any rock wall either. I'd be disappointed if we saw that on the Solstice Class :)

[Tatka]

I prefer 70K-90K T, but we recently sailed on 116K T Caribbean Princess with 3500+ PAX and we didn't feel overcrowdness a bit.. Ship had 3 main pools in complately different areas with different activities. One of them (aft Terrace pool) completely adult, with security staff, that didn't allowed any kids. + another sport adult only pool. Plus 2 or 3 kids pool, and many places to keep kids and adults busy.

 

It also has 6-7 different lounges and clubs + theatre with live entertainment, so none of them felt crowded either.

 

And I am not even talking about size and plan of the buffets. No lines what so ever.

 

There were so many cozy nice places, you'd think you are on the private yacht.

[cruiser2004]

I prefer 70K-90K T, but we recently sailed on 116K T Caribbean Princess with 3500+ PAX and we didn't feel overcrowdness a bit.. Ship had 3 main pools in complately different areas with different activities. One of them (aft Terrace pool) completely adult, with security staff, that didn't allowed any kids. + another sport adult only pool. Plus 2 or 3 kids pool, and many places to keep kids and adults busy.

 

It also has 6-7 different lounges and clubs + theatre with live entertainment, so none of them felt crowded either.

 

And I am not even talking about size and plan of the buffets. No lines what so ever.

 

There were so many cozy nice places, you'd think you are on the private yacht.

 

Hi Tatka, I think you are right about the bigger size of ships does not have to mean feeling crowded. I do think the key for success may well be corporate planning ability to handle such a large number of passengers. It will be nice to see Celebrity's aging fleet either repaced or at least give passengers a choice of a newer ship that is in good condition. My biggest concern would be with the number of Celebrity loyalist that are now looking at other cruise options, where will all of the passengers come from, to fill the larger new ships when they are brought into service over the next 2 to 4 years.