Room Attendant Salaries

[ILov2cruise]

Cruiz'nTall, I just read all the posts. Just wondering, in one post you say,

My father worked in skilled labor his entire life. He is Greek American. He took enormous pride in his work, something that is rarely the case in the American marketplace. He was ridiculed by his co-workers and branded as a "company man" only because he took a sense of ownership in his work and was grateful for the opportunities presented to him. He never complained when he was blatently discriminated against and paid less then what other "American" workers were getting paid for work that was half the quality of his.

in another you say'

My father was in the military for 20 years. I have been on many ships, including aircraft carriers, and diesel and trident class submarines. Yes, quarters on these ships are more cramped for sure, but they get payed a whole lot better, get benefits, college tuition, the GI bill, can train to be doctors and lawyers, get plastic surgery for free...shall I go on?

Exactly what kind of job did your father have.

Have you really been on a cruise ship or just aircraft carriers, and diesel and trident class submarines.

You say My point exactly, exactly what is your point. Your way or no way.

[rsinj]

[QUOTE]That sickens me. These people don't deserve jobs that pay like ours? [/QUOTE]Actually, what I believe, after seeing your childish rants responding to every single post, is that your goal is to simply argue with anyone who says anything even remotely "negative" (negative in your view) about a foreign employee for any reason whatsoever. Have I got that right? You even argue with those who happen to agree with you somewhat.

[QUOTE]My recoil was agaisnt the perspective that those that work in the cruiseline industry should be lucky to have what they have and they don't deserve better. These are the implications that I took issue with. The rest of your argument is irrelevent.[/QUOTE]Stop right there. They don't deserve better? I don't think anyone said that at all here - did they? You're darn right you made an implication - of what you wanted to read into everyones post. Nobody said they don't deserve better.

What was said, which you've got a real problem with is that they should feel lucky they have their jobs. Yes, anyone that has a job (in any country in any occupation) should feel lucky they have a job, because I think right now most of us know that your job can easily be taken away and given to someone else, if not eliminated. So, yes, your cruiseline employees should feel lucky to have the job they have - and that in the end, it is paying much more than flipping hamburgers at McDonald's - in any country. That's in addition to their benefits and everything else they get. The hard work, being away from family (that [b]you[/b] can't begin to imagine) and everything else you feel so sorry for them about is a nonissue because that is the job. You've got a problem with that too - in fact even going so far as justifying that some of these folks in fact do have no choice but to take the cruiseline work.

What do you suppose flipping burgers in their home countries pays? You've also got a real problem that the rest of the developing world countries are not up to US standards when it comes to pay. How difficult is it for you to understand that it is you who is not comparing apples to apples?

They cannot get paid this amount of money in their home countries because of the economic environment. So, they want more money that they can earn outside their country (which another economy can provide), send the money back home where it will undoubtedly buy more - makes perfect sense, and they do it by their own choice.

It's just a fact that much of the world is not as developed as the US, not as educated to the extent of the US, and is unable to provide the jobs/pay that the US can provide - those are facts not things to argue about justifying why people from other countries deserve better. I don't expect you to be able to comprehend that simple fact - as your mission here won't allow it.

You continue to wear the halo of Mother Theresa for the foreign cruiseline worker. It's obvious that's your only purpose here. It's really not such a bad job, no matter what you think. I know your reply already - I'm just waiting to see it so I can laugh.

[rsinj]

[QUOTE]He took enormous pride in his work, something that is rarely the case in the American marketplace[/QUOTE]It appears that Cruizin' has a bit of a stereotypical/bigot attitude as well - towards Americans. Things are beginning to become clearer.

[Ocean Boy]

[QUOTE=Cruiz'nTall]I worked a 40 hour job a week at Walmart to earn my way through college while I took on 18 credit semesters. I woke up at 5 every morning to study and didn't go to bed until 2. I don't need to hear patronizing talk regarding working hard.[/QUOTE]

No one is patronizing you about hard work. The issue is comparing college and dorm life to shipbaord life and that life on a ship is not worse than college life as you try to make it out to be. In fact, according to your above post I would say you proved my point.

By the way, if you were getting up at 5AM to do your studying then why is it that you weren't getting to bed before 2AM? Realize this means that you spent your college career averaging 3 hrs. of sleep a night. Well, I may have been born in the morning but it wasn't this morning. :rolleyes:

[MrsPete]

<<<<Hmm...you were the first child born in this country...so that makes you a naturalized US citizen...am I missing something here..oh yes, of course. You are not a foreigner. You have been assimilated into American Culture...resistance is futile..>>>

No, my father is a naturalized citizen -- that's the term for a person who was born in another country and went through the process to become a US citizen.

I am perfectly aware that I am not a foreigner; however, I have foreign family, and that's what I was talking about in the post. After they came to the US, my father and his family rarely had contact with their relatives "back home" (now will you argue that they were no longer foreigners once they became US citizens?). My point: Your blanket theory that all foreigners are from close-knit families is bunk!

[wallie5446]

Crusiz'nTall

My Daughter is the only American on the CD Staff. And 'ALL' the crew have Full Medical Coverage while on Ship. It is when they return to where ever, that they have none. And not in a service position ? Duh ! She is up at 6am'ish every day, till well past midnight most days, with 2 pax turns a week on Fri & Mon. Cush job ? Hardley. But all the crew has a smile just for you.;)

[Cruise Cat]

I'm not going to repost my whole long story from a past similar thread that compares working on a cruise ship to what it like to was like working in an amusement park up north in the early 80's each summer for below minimum wage (legal with the $0.25 per hour 'bonus' they put in your contract) while I worked my way through college. All the jobs paid the same whether you were cleaning garbage cans or running rides. Some jobs where tipping were allowed got less that 2.00 an hour. I'll just say that I met so many different people from all parts of the country and had the time of my life. If I wasn't married now and full of all this responsibility, I would gladly do it again in a heartbeat. Early in the Summer you work 6 days, and then late in the Summer 7 days. 12 to 14 hours an day with one 40 minute break that only the minors were guarenteed by law. I worked my tail off all the time with a bunch of other U.S. Citizens and a few that were not (mostly from Canada or Austrailia). The costs of the dorms and your laundry, etc., were deducted from your paycheck. I remember at that time, the checkout personnel at Kroger threatening to go on strike because they wanted 12.00/hour to run things through a cash register. How 'spoiled' we thought they all were. But then again, we got our foood at a discount and got free run of the park during off hours. There were many, many activities for the employees. One of my best friends from HS met his wife there. Again, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Cruzn Tail - Respectfully, you need to take a few business courses and talk to some actual HR personnel (over a few beers). I have friends in my company who are computer programmers being displaced by foreign nationals by tatics of cut-backs that aren't needed followed by hiring of programmers from Hong-Kong (place of residence, even though they are not originally from there), that they pay much, much less to do the same job, even though they don't do it as well. The large companies find ways around and through all the laws to protect american workers. It's real life kid.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='Cruise Cat']I'm not going to repost my whole long story from a past similar thread that compares working on a cruise ship to what it like to was like working in an amusement park up north in the early 80's each summer for below minimum wage (legal with the $0.25 per hour 'bonus' they put in your contract) while I worked my way through college. All the jobs paid the same whether you were cleaning garbage cans or running rides. Some jobs where tipping were allowed got less that 2.00 an hour. I'll just say that I met so many different people from all parts of the country and had the time of my life. If I wasn't married now and full of all this responsibility, I would gladly do it again in a heartbeat. Early in the Summer you work 6 days, and then late in the Summer 7 days. 12 to 14 hours an day with one 40 minute break that only the minors were guarenteed by law. I worked my tail off all the time with a bunch of other U.S. Citizens and a few that were not (mostly from Canada or Austrailia). The costs of the dorms and your laundry, etc., were deducted from your paycheck. I remember at that time, the checkout personnel at Kroger threatening to go on strike because they wanted 12.00/hour to run things through a cash register. How 'spoiled' we thought they all were. But then again, we got our foood at a discount and got free run of the park during off hours. There were many, many activities for the employees. One of my best friends from HS met his wife there. Again, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Cruzn Tail - Respectfully, you need to take a few business courses and talk to some actual HR personnel (over a few beers). I have friends in my company who are computer programmers being displaced by foreign nationals by tatics of cut-backs that aren't needed followed by hiring of programmers from Hong-Kong (place of residence, even though they are not originally from there), that they pay much, much less to do the same job, even though they don't do it as well. The large companies find ways around and through all the laws to protect american workers. It's real life kid.[/QUOTE]Well, I see this thread will never die...so be it.

First off, I am no kid - I am 33 years old and I have lived in 4 different countries and been to 10 others. I doubt, seriously, that you have a fraction of the world knowledge that I do.

Secondly, your grasp of 80's amuzement park economics is amusing, but really not at all relevant to my original argument. I have never said anything regarding whether cruise line employees are not paid enough, or not tipped enough. My reaction was to the implication that they are suited for their positions soley because of their nationality.

What you are missing here, is that the cruiseline industry is one of the most bottom line industries out there. They employee foreigners because they know they will not complain, and will be willing to live in the environment that the curiseline dictates and will be thankful for the fact that they have the position - otherwise they would hire a professional workforce that is trained and experienced.

You reference "foreign nationals" - and you assign the blame for "cut-backs" on their shoulders, as if it is their fault your company decided to seek out comparitively lower wages in a developing company. Seeking out labour that is motivated, educated, and eager to work at half what American workers are being paid. Why is this the "foreign nationals" fault and not the companies fault?

What is at the root of this issue is a resistance to an egalitarian society based on social class. For you to have your job that pays what it does, someone else in a developing country must continue to suffer under poor wages and poor standards of living. Once developing countries start to ...develop...and are offered those jobs - not taken - No developing country is knocking down the door of American companies - it is the other way around with FORD, GM, DELL, even the Democratic and Republican National Parites building call centers in foreign countries - all of a sudden, there is some large social injustice.

I personally don't believe out-sourcing is fair, or warranted as a business practice. But I don't blame the "foreign nationals" for educating themselves and trying to compete in a world market place.

How does the saying go "Give me your tired, your poor, hudled masses, yearning to be free....unless they want our jobs at half what we are paid..."

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='wallie5446']Crusiz'nTall

My Daughter is the only American on the CD Staff. And 'ALL' the crew have Full Medical Coverage while on Ship. It is when they return to where ever, that they have none. And not in a service position ? Duh ! She is up at 6am'ish every day, till well past midnight most days, with 2 pax turns a week on Fri & Mon. Cush job ? Hardley. But all the crew has a smile just for you.;)[/QUOTE]
I love the fact that you continue to just support my perspective exactly.

[quote name='wallie5446']Crusiz'nTall

My Daughter is the only American on the CD Staff.[/QUOTE]
Yes, their full medical coverage is limited to services provided by the staff doctor. Have you ever been to the
infirmary onboard a cruise ship? What does full medical coverage mean when they are limited to a doctor, staff nurse and a small lab? What good does full medical coverage do you when you are at your local hospital with a broken leg?

I never suggested she has a "cush job" but that her job is qualitatively different then service jobs - and I am sure it pays better.

Keep posting, I need the support.

[abridalmaven]

Actually he does make some sense because some seem to think very little of these people as if they were servants, beneath them and they get what they desrved. I see this attitude everywhere, not just on ships. And to argue about the army and the poor living conditions ... to that I say baloney! My son was in the Army and he and his wife were stationed in Germany and lived off base ( a choice they DO have) in a 2 BR duplex. They also have full medical and dental and so on. Now they were officers, which not all are, but if one does not choose to go up in rank, it is again by choice. And no one also forces them into the army either, they too make this choice, the last time I looked the army was still volunteer, not draft .

So to say I will not tip enough because they make this choice and they made enough, is all boiling down to one thing again: [b][color=red]rationalizing for being cheap[/color][/b]. Any other type of discussion is a cover up for this motive. Now the rest of you can continue to argue and nit pick over CT's words, but either you have nothing better to do or do not have enough sense to know when to quit and arguement.:rolleyes: :p

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='MrsPete']<<<<Hmm...you were the first child born in this country...so that makes you a naturalized US citizen...am I missing something here..oh yes, of course. You are not a foreigner. You have been assimilated into American Culture...resistance is futile..>>>

No, my father is a naturalized citizen -- that's the term for a person who was born in another country and went through the process to become a US citizen.

I am perfectly aware that I am not a foreigner; however, I have foreign family, and that's what I was talking about in the post. After they came to the US, my father and his family rarely had contact with their relatives "back home" (now will you argue that they were no longer foreigners once they became US citizens?). My point: Your blanket theory that all foreigners are from close-knit families is bunk![/QUOTE]
Well, if you read the actual content of my post - you would have seen that I said foreigners *TEND* to be tight-knit - not that ALL of them are.

And yes, you are right, I mistakenly used the term naturalized instead of first generation.

And there are many who would argue that once you have been in any country for an extended period of time, you are assimilated into that culture to some degree. I would be very surprised if your family hasn't been.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='Ocean Boy']No one is patronizing you about hard work. The issue is comparing college and dorm life to shipbaord life and that life on a ship is not worse than college life as you try to make it out to be. In fact, according to your above post I would say you proved my point.

By the way, if you were getting up at 5AM to do your studying then why is it that you weren't getting to bed before 2AM? Realize this means that you spent your college career averaging 3 hrs. of sleep a night. Well, I may have been born in the morning but it wasn't this morning. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]Good, you can do math. Wheew...

Yes, thats 3 hours. I slept on the weekends and caught up on my work. I never get more then 5 or 6 hours of sleep. [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Nikita+Kruschev&spell=1"][b][i][color=#0000cc]Nikita Kruschev[/color][/i][/b][/url] never slept more then 3 hours a day. His argument was that you otherwise sleep 1/3 of your life away. I didn't sleep by necessity, not by choice. When you work 40 hours a week, there are only so many hours in the day to do work for an 18 credit semester.

Maybe you can't do math afterall...

[Cruiz'nTall]

LOL :)

Well said...

And thanks for giving me a break from having to type a long response.

Here that everyone? Agreeing with me is less time consuming. :p
[quote name='abridalmaven']Actually he does make some sense because some seem to think very little of these people as if they were servants, beneath them and they get what they desrved. I see this attitude everywhere, not just on ships. And to argue about the army and the poor living conditions ... to that I say baloney! My son was in the Army and he and his wife were stationed in Germany and lived off base ( a choice they DO have) in a 2 BR duplex. They also have full medical and dental and so on. Now they were officers, which not all are, but if one does not choose to go up in rank, it is again by choice. And no one also forces them into the army either, they too make this choice, the last time I looked the army was still volunteer, not draft .

So to say I will not tip enough because they make this choice and they made enough, is all boiling down to one thing again: [b][color=red]rationalizing for being cheap[/color][/b]. Any other type of discussion is a cover up for this motive. Now the rest of you can continue to argue and nit pick over CT's words, but either you have nothing better to do or do not have enough sense to know when to quit and arguement.:rolleyes: :p[/QUOTE]

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rsinj']It appears that Cruizin' has a bit of a stereotypical/bigot attitude as well - towards Americans. Things are beginning to become clearer.[/QUOTE]
Your choice of words are interesting here given that your original post essentially solidified that this is YOUR and not MY perspective.

My father was outcast because of the nature of and the pride that he took in his work. The issue was "why are you trying to do such a good job - are you a company man?"

The fact that Americans are taking less and less pride in their work is fact, not stereotype. It directly correlates with companies exceedingly paying lower wages, expecting higher productivity, and demanding more hours in return for less benefits. Read the news.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='ILov2cruise']Cruiz'nTall, I just read all the posts. Just wondering, in one post you say,

My father worked in skilled labor his entire life. He is Greek American. He took enormous pride in his work, something that is rarely the case in the American marketplace. He was ridiculed by his co-workers and branded as a "company man" only because he took a sense of ownership in his work and was grateful for the opportunities presented to him. He never complained when he was blatently discriminated against and paid less then what other "American" workers were getting paid for work that was half the quality of his.

in another you say'

My father was in the military for 20 years. I have been on many ships, including aircraft carriers, and diesel and trident class submarines. Yes, quarters on these ships are more cramped for sure, but they get payed a whole lot better, get benefits, college tuition, the GI bill, can train to be doctors and lawyers, get plastic surgery for free...shall I go on?

Exactly what kind of job did your father have.

Have you really been on a cruise ship or just aircraft carriers, and diesel and trident class submarines.

You say My point exactly, exactly what is your point. Your way or no way.[/QUOTE]
My father was a mechanical engineer in the Greek Navy for 20 years. Before that, as a child, he delivered underground allied newspapers to insurgants fighting off the Italian occupation. He was beaten and almost killed on a daily basis. He learned to the skill of mechanical labour working on cruise ships and cargo ships before he joined the Greek Navy.

In the US, he worked for several US military bomb and equipment companies and also worked for Harley Davidson and Caterpillar for 20 years. My father is in his late 70's now - retired.

My point is - I don't like invalid arguements that lack critical thought.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rsinj']Actually, what I believe, after seeing your childish rants responding to every single post, is that your goal is to simply argue with anyone who says anything even remotely "negative" (negative in your view) about a foreign employee for any reason whatsoever. Have I got that right? You even argue with those who happen to agree with you somewhat.

Stop right there. [/QUOTE]Well, I can't really stop when I've already posted the whole response, can I. I am not actually typing this in real-time. You do know this right....

[QUOTE]They don't deserve better? I don't think anyone said that at all here - did they? You're darn right you made an implication - of what you wanted to read into everyones post. Nobody said they don't deserve better.

What was said, which you've got a real problem with is that they should feel lucky they have their jobs. Yes, anyone that has a job (in any country in any occupation) should feel lucky they have a job, because I think right now most of us know that your job can easily be taken away and given to someone else, if not eliminated. So, yes, your cruiseline employees should feel lucky to have the job they have - and that in the end, it is paying much more than flipping hamburgers at McDonald's - in any country. That's in addition to their benefits and everything else they get. The hard work, being away from family (that [b]you[/b] can't begin to imagine) and everything else you feel so sorry for them about is a nonissue because that is the job. You've got a problem with that too - in fact even going so far as justifying that some of these folks in fact do have no choice but to take the cruiseline work. [/QUOTE]My problem there chief, is that cruiseline employees should feel no better about having their jobs then anyone else should. Your implication is that they should feel ESPECIALLY grateful because of their particular ethnicity and socioeconomic status. That somehow they only deserve that and are lucky for it.

[quote name='rsinj']What do you suppose flipping burgers in their home countries pays? You've also got a real problem that the rest of the developing world countries are not up to US standards when it comes to pay. How difficult is it for you to understand that it is you who is not comparing apples to apples?

They cannot get paid this amount of money in their home countries because of the economic environment. So, they want more money that they can earn outside their country (which another economy can provide), send the money back home where it will undoubtedly buy more - makes perfect sense, and they do it by their own choice.[/QUOTE]Thanks for typing a lot, but saying very little. Their socioeconomic conditions are, in part, governed by a biased world economy (towards the Super developed countries). Americans demand cheap goods, cheap food, cheap fuel...that all has an effect globally. We all have to have our Wal Marts...

In this country alone, we can produce enough agricultural product to feed the ENTIRE world. But we don't. Our government actually subsidises farmers (pays them) to not grow crops. That way, it keeps the market value of those crops high so that Farmers can make the living that they are accustomed too and we can keep the export price of our crops, cattle, etc. at a premium.

We produce enough oil from the Alaskin pipeline to reduce our foreign oil dependance in half - but do you know where it goes? We sell it to the Japaneese at a much greater profit then we would if we pumped it into our own economy because Americans aren't willing to pay as much as the Japaneese are for it. Japan is an island, with no resources and it must import all of them.

Why don't you read up on global economics then come back and we can shoot the breeze some more....[/QUOTE][QUOTE]
You continue to wear the halo of Mother Theresa for the foreign cruiseline worker. It's obvious that's your only purpose here. It's really not such a bad job, no matter what you think. I know your reply already - I'm just waiting to see it so I can laugh.[/QUOTE]I am not into wearing Halo's but, I am not one to judge; whatever floats your boat.

If you know my response, why bother posting? Why don't you just post my response and save me the time, trouble, and inevitable pain of sifting through the muck you call prose?

If you have next weeks Powerball numbers in that crystal ball of yours too, I am sure everyone would be grateful.

[Cruiz'nTall]

No Soup For You!

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rsinj']It appears that Cruizin' has a bit of a stereotypical/bigot attitude as well - towards Americans. Things are beginning to become clearer.[/QUOTE]BTW, this comment also tips your hand - I am as American as you are. What does it mean to be American? We are the great melting pot. America is a descendant of Europe, of Asia, of the whole world, and the Native Americans that were brutally displaced - but that's another thread and another board...

[rocktheboat]

Isn't anyone else tired of Miss I think I No It All, Everyone have a nice cruise.


Bye Maria

[Tapped Out Again]

This thread is seriously, seriously unnecessary.

It doesn't freaking matter if the waiter is foreign/US, male/female, rich/poor, healthy/sick, works 20 hours/works 80 hrs a week.

If he provided good service and tipping is the socially expected thing to do, you tip. That's the end of it.

Don't eat at a restaurant if you don't want to tip. Take showers if you go out in public. Don't go to the mall in a thong underwear.

How hard is it for anyone with any social etiquette?

[ChickenParm]

Cruzn'Tall,

Although your summations about world economics are quite scholarly, erudite, and humorous, I wish you would frankly just cut the crap. I will make myself very clear:

Nobody cares that you are able to quote passages from your college Econ text, which you had to read at 5:00am because you had a 40hr/week job, and then connect it to your father's hardships in the Greek Navy while all the time using really large words that most people have to get a dictionary to understand!

I started this thread to find out how much Room Attendants are paid. I've determined that we do need to tip, based on the expected level of service. I'm sorry, but I'm not starting HS Econ class until September, not NOW!

Have a pleasant day.

[CaptData]

One of my Cabin Attendents was starting University in the States thanks to the tips and her job there. She took the job to help her understand english better. She was leaving the ship in two months. She has a job lined up and an apartment on campus. She will become a nurse and serve first in the US for two years then return home. She even showed me her acceptance letter. My Eye Doctor worked cruise ships 20 years ago to help pay for his education and he was/is Canadian. He said that the company paid him very little but did gyt so much money plus room and board. He made enough to start his education in Canada.

I worked at a job once where you paid to work there (no not a street corner). It was a high class place where you had to fit the costume. I made $500.00 in one night on tips, paid my $50.00 out and went home with $400.00 (had to give Bar Tender some of the money too). Now for an 18 year old, 30 years ago that was a lot of money. I only filled in for a sick friend. This job she only work three nights a week. Yes, some did not tip but on average she came home with $300.00 per night.

[teach01]

[quote name='CaptData']One of my Cabin Attendents was starting University in the States thanks to the tips and her job there. She took the job to help her understand english better. She was leaving the ship in two months. She has a job lined up and an apartment on campus. She will become a nurse and serve first in the US for two years then return home. She even showed me her acceptance letter. My Eye Doctor worked cruise ships 20 years ago to help pay for his education and he was/is Canadian. He said that the company paid him very little but did gyt so much money plus room and board. He made enough to start his education in Canada.

I worked at a job once where you paid to work there (no not a street corner). It was a high class place where you had to fit the costume. I made $500.00 in one night on tips, paid my $50.00 out and went home with $400.00 (had to give Bar Tender some of the money too). Now for an 18 year old, 30 years ago that was a lot of money. I only filled in for a sick friend. This job she only work three nights a week. Yes, some did not tip but on average she came home with $300.00 per night.[/QUOTE]
ummm... and what was the title of this job--I can think of one myself but thought it better to ask!

[rsinj]

[QUOTE]Thanks for typing a lot, but saying very little. [/QUOTE]look who's talking.

[QUOTE]Their socioeconomic conditions are, in part, governed by a biased world economy (towards the Super developed countries). Americans demand cheap goods, cheap food, cheap fuel...that all has an effect globally. We all have to have our Wal Marts...[/QUOTE]we all need to have our Walmarts? have you ever heard of the concept of supply and demand? I seriously doubt it, because if you did, you might understand how idiotic all of your arguments through this whole thread are. supply and demand controls everything in economics - not just in America, but the world. you just think about it a moment, then apply it to your problem with Walmart, cheap food, fuel, cruise employee pay and work conditions. I can't wait for your response as you'll now begin redefining basic economic concepts for us to fit your mission.


[QUOTE]In this country alone, we can produce enough agricultural product to feed the ENTIRE world. But we don't. Our government actually subsidises farmers (pays them) to not grow crops. That way, it keeps the market value of those crops high so that Farmers can make the living that they are accustomed too and we can keep the export price of our crops, cattle, etc. at a premium.[/QUOTE]look who needs to understand world economics. if we can produce enough agricultural products to feed the world, and we did, just where do you think that would leave countries that depend on agricultural exports to make money? most of us are fully aware of the government subsidizing farmers not to grow crops, but, your reason as to why is totally in left field.

[QUOTE]We produce enough oil from the Alaskin pipeline to reduce our foreign oil dependance in half - but do you know where it goes? We sell it to the Japaneese at a much greater profit then we would if we pumped it into our own economy because Americans aren't willing to pay as much as the Japaneese are for it. Japan is an island, with no resources and it must import all of them.[/QUOTE]supply and demand babe.

[QUOTE]Why don't you read up on global economics then come back and we can shoot the breeze some more[/QUOTE]take your own advice.

[Idrive159]

I find it hard to believe that people would be so rude to "stiff" the room stewards. On my 2001 VOS trip, in getting the know our steward, compensation came up. He stated just what has been mentioned except I asked him if people didn't tip him and he said there are people on every cruise that "stiff" him. Sometimes 15-20 % of the cabins. We had excellent service from him and tipped accordingly.