Room Attendant Salaries

[bensjamin]

I think that in most cases, and in all of the cases on my three cruises, the cruise staff deserves their reccomended tips, or more - and my family has no problem giving it. But, what I don't like is the reasoning that we should be forced to tip because they are not paid well. If the service is sub-par, and you don't feel that they deserve their tip - you shouldn't feel obligated to pay them because of their financial situation.

 

I think what Iluv2Cruise means to say is that tipping out of pity doesn't make sense, because there are many people that we interact with in our daily lives who deserve to be paid more, but aren't - such as McDonalds employees, or even teachers.

 

I say this not as an attempt to gain sympathy, as I love my "jobs," but I'm currently interning in Hollywood. Three days a week I work from 9am to 6pm, and 2 days a week I work from 8am to 7pm - and all I get "paid" is reimbursments for my driving and meals. I perform tasks (such as reading scripts and writing coverage) that some people are paid thousands of dollars a day to do. BUT, I don't complain (except right here, and I'm not really complaining, I'm just using it to make a point) - and I don't expect to get paid by some third party out of sympathy. People wouldn't come up to me and offer me money, simply because I was being paid next to nothing, just like cruise staff don't deserve tips simply because they are paid next to nothing.

 

However, if they provide good service, they should be rewarded for it. The only problem I have is that people feel as if cruise staff are entitled to their tips simply because they are not paid well.

[Shaken_Bake]

It seems that the more recent posts have turned this thread into a discussion about whether cruisers should feel sorry for the crew because they don't earn a lot of money, work hard and have to be away from their families, or whether the crew is earning plenty of money to support their families back home in the Third World and cruisers only need to tip because it's more or less required.

 

My impression is that a ship's crew works as hard as any sampling of employees in any type of job anywhere in the world. There are plenty of jobs which are harder which pay less, and plenty where people earn a great deal more for no work at all. It's all relative. No one is forced to do any job. It's easy to see why many people choose to work on a ship despite the hardships and hard work, given the lack of jobs where they come from.

 

The bottom line is, cruisers should tip the minimum recommended amount AT LEAST unless there's some egregious conduct by the crew member. If a crew member doesn't earn the minimum, then something must be seriously wrong and the crew member should be reported to management. Otherwise, tip him or her, for goodness sake, and don't worry about how much they're making, or how much their earnings can buy back home! AND if the tipping policy doesn't suit you, then vacation somewhere else. It's part of the cost of cruising.

[cruisinqt]

This seems to be a very touchy subject on all of the boards. I was on the Carnival boards a while back and started a thread similar to this one. I just asked what type of salary the cabin attendant's got. I figured everyone got paid a pretty good salary on such a nice big ship. It wasn't until I overheard a cabin attendant lamenting that someone had not paid him any tip at all and it was a cabin with four people in it. He said that he had a family and kids to support and this would hurt him a lot financially. ( He wasn't talking to me, I just overheard him talking to an associate of his.) That's when I realized that maybe they didn't get paid much and relied on our tips as their salary. It surprised me and that's when I posted the thread on this subject.

 

Boy did it turn into a major heated discussion. People seem to feel very strongly on this subject and they don't back off either. There are a lot of kindhearted people out there that feel sorry for the crew and they feel the cabin attendants should get tipped regardless of service because of their situation. There are others that feel just as strongly that these people should not be pitied and tipping should not be automatic. Either way, it doesn't matter in the end. There are cruisers that don't tip for whatever reason. There are also cruisers that tip way over the top. I figure it evens out in the end.

 

For my part, I tip the recommended amount. If the cabin attendant is really good, I might give him a small gift to show my appreciation. If he is outstanding, I fill out a comment card extoling his many virtues. This last suggestion is the best way for an employee to get some recognition and maybe even a promotion.

[Cruiz'nTall]

sorry you don't approve Cruiz'n - unfortunately I happen to say exactly what I mean and I wasn't intending to be sensitive - it was meant to state the facts. you on the other hand live in fantasyland where the realities of this world are irrelevant.

 

I'm not exactly sure what is less relevant, your abysmal understanding (or lack there of) of my argument, or your platitude frought prose (if you can even refer to it as that).

 

say what you like mother theresa - did I say that they weren't human beings? absolutely not. and they should feel luck to have their jobs exactly for the reasons I've put forth which you find so abhorrent. if they didn't have the job with the cruise line, what exactly do you suppose they would be doing in their home countries? where else are you going to find a job that pays as well with so little experience?

 

Again, your tone is arrogent and obnoxiously condescending. You have this narrow understanding of their particular situations and you like to make broad, generalized statements about their socioeconomic status in their home country. Perhaps if you stepped back from your inflated perspective, you might realize that our gluttonous society motivates a lot of the tragic economic conditions around the globe. Our sense of entitlement to cheap goods, cheap foreign labor, cheap fuel has blinded our understanding and empathy for the consequences of our lifestyle as a whole. And we wonder why American sentiment around the world is so low.

 

ok - so, if there is a problem, then, why in the world would they take the job to begin with? as you noticed someone else has provided reference to an actual contract - you will take note that it is a FREE WILL contract. nobody is forcing them to take the job, and they can leave whenever they like if they can't handle it. how hard they work, etc., etc. is entirely a non-issue - that is the job that they contracted for. maybe you aren't familiar with the concept of free will employment - are you? if their pay is based on customer satisfaction and the customer providing a tip, then they have to earn it. if the customer boards the ship, and at the end of the week says "you know, I paid $x,000 for this cruise, and in all honesty, the service wasn't all that great" why should the customer by guilt-driven into leaving the recommended tip? don't you think the employer should be responsible for paying their employee salaries? why should the consumer be responsible? and, if the consumer is responsible, it is that consumer who determines what the just gratuity is based on his experience and satisfaction.

 

This is completely irrelevant to my point. This has nothing to do with free will - it has to do with an appreciation and sensitivity towards an alternative perspective - one not your own. But how could you ever embrace something so abstract?

 

again, you may consider it insensitive, but, we are talking about a free market economy from start to finish. if the cruise employee doesn't like the work, or feels that he is not being paid properly or given sufficient benefits, he doesn't have to work for the cruise line - someone else will. I don't like the fact that jobs in the US are being sent to India in my line of work, but they do it cheaper - right? hey, we all work hard - that's what enables us to go on these cruises. if you don't get service which is of the value of the recommended tip above what you paid for the cruise, why in the world are you going to pay it? because you are a sensitive person and care about the socioeconomic life situation of the cruise employees? that's not what I go on a cruise for.

So we find the root underlying mechanism for your disdain of foreigners; the fact that they work harder and are more efficient. Well, as you stated, that is the nature of a free-market economy. You have managed to bite your own hand. My father worked in skilled labor his entire life. He is Greek American. He took enormous pride in his work, something that is rarely the case in the American marketplace. He was ridiculed by his co-workers and branded as a "company man" only because he took a sense of ownership in his work and was grateful for the opportunities presented to him. He never complained when he was blatently discriminated against and paid less then what other "American" workers were getting paid for work that was half the quality of his.

 

What I absolutely despise is this grandious sense of entitelment and thinly veiled arrogance people like you have. You don't like that your job is being shipped over seas - work harder and prove your worth either to your current employer or someone else. A novel concept, indeed. Welcome to the world economy we all created.

[Cruiz'nTall]

Okay, this is like a train wreck . . . can't help but say something.

 

Actually, I'm interested in this topic because my husband and I have talked about working on cruise ships when we retire. We want to do something 100% different from our current professional jobs. We'll retire with full pensions in our early 50s, and we'd like to do something to bring in some income for 10-15 years or so until our social security kicks in. We think it'd be good to work, perhaps, 6 months on the ship, 6 months retirement.

 

Back to the subject, I suspect the crew probably has good weeks and bad weeks. I'm sure the waiters have the occasional family reunion of 15 who leaves a whopping $5 on the table on the last night, and then they have weeks where everyone tips well. Considering the number of tables waited x 2 seatings /number of rooms cleaned, IF everyone tips the average, I suspect they are making around $3000/month.

 

That's not bad. As a teacher, I have two college degrees, a professional license, and 14 years experience. I make $3500 per month; in all fairness, I probably have more benefits than the cruise ship employees. And during the school year I do work 6 days a week with extracurriculars and all the work that must be taken home.

 

However, many of you are overlooking one big, big factor: In addition to that $3000 per month, they ALSO have room and board. True, it's not a luxury accomodation, but it's no worse than the college dorms in which I spent several happy years. When I was just out of college I made MUCH LESS than $3000/month, AND I had to provide my own room and board. Back then it took every penny I had just to eat, live indoors, and have a basic car; new clothes, meals out, furniture -- those were way beyond my means. On the other hand, cruise ship employees could, if they wanted, save almost every cent they earn! What other group can do that? Not many.

 

Yes, they are away from family, but so are many other people. The US military personnel in Iraq come to mind right away. Consider, too, that many of the crew are still very young and are in see-the-world, get-away-from-the-family mode. Again, this is a choice. Probably some embrace the opportunity to leave family behind, while others hate it.

 

So what do I think about tipping?

 

I think we should tip generously for good service. I'd suggest starting with the "suggested amounts" and moving up or down a bit for quality (or lack thereof).

I don't think we should tip because we feel sorry for people or their situations (situations which may or may not be what we imagine them to be).

The comparison of your teaching position with that of a cruise employee is ludicrous, Mrs. Pete.

 

First off, you have benefits, as you rightfully admitted - the value of which are likely an additional third of your salary.

 

You also have job security - something that cruiseline employees lack - and you work 9 months out of the year (My wife is a highschool teacher) but you get paid for 12.

 

How can you compare the cramped, clausterphobic conditions of the crew quarters (2 sleep to a a room smaller then the lowest class interior cabin) to the living arrangements of your home? Have you ever been on a long cruise, where even in the lap of luxery, you are ready to get off the ship? Imagine waiting hand and foot for 6 months at a time on a structure that is constantly at sea.

 

I cannot even fathom the lonliness of being thousands of miles from your loved ones, friends, and family. To have to attempt to fill the void with the company of complete strangers who expect you to be at your best, all the time. It is a lifestyle that is so artificial, so imposing, so against the fabric of a traditional profession that trying to compare across professions based soley on monitary value is absurd.

 

This notion that there employment is tax free is also absurd. Each country has its own way of dealing with employment income. Many nations have provisions for employees who travel outside of their country and expect them to still pay tax on those earnings. My father is taxed twice on his foreign military pension (one by the foreign military, and one by good ole uncle sam).

 

But then again, why cite facts, when misinformed opinion is so much fun, right?

[Cruiz'nTall]

KStevens79:

To me, the social faux pas of being a bad tipper raises such a red flag that it would make me seriously question dating that person. Hopefully your girlfriend has many other admirable qualities to make up for that - but if not, isn't it funny how traveling with someone can teach you all kinds of things about them you didn't know?

Travelgrrl

Travelgrrl, I couldn't agree with you more. Tipping is really about a fundemental understanding of fairness and the ability to grasp multiple perspectives (i.e. how would I feel if I got a $5.00 tip after a weeks worth of work).

 

If you can't afford an adequite and fair tip for some given activity, perhaps you shouldn't be engaging in it in the first place.

[banderboo]

Cruz'n Tall... Have you never seen the conditions that our military live in. Saliors and Marines living aboad US Naval ships for 6 or months at a time would love to have the accomodations that the crew aboard cruise ships have.

 

I for one tip for service recieved without regard to the individuals economic condition. If I receive exceptional service or require service above and beyond the "norm" (like when we did when our 2 teenager girls had their own room) I tip above and beyond the suggested amount. However if I don't receive good service I don't feel any obligation to tip.

[rsinj]

I cannot even fathom the lonliness of being thousands of miles from your loved ones, friends, and family. To have to attempt to fill the void with the company of complete strangers who expect you to be at your best, all the time. It is a lifestyle that is so artificial, so imposing, so against the fabric of a traditional profession that trying to compare across professions based soley on monitary value is absurd.

ahahahaha! good one. why do any of us work? I dont know what the color of the sky is in your world, but, for the overwhelming majority of people, the job they take is in fact based on monetary value.

 

last I checked, it takes money to put food on the table, keep a roof over our heads, provide for our families and even take the cruises that pay these cruise emplyees. in the world we live in, everything is based on monetary value and there's no way that you are going to change that. your value system doesn't rank money too high and that's fine for you. don't think that everyone, or even many folks live by your value system.

 

these cruise employees are being given the opportunity to take that job - nobody is holding a gun to their heads forcing them. if they decide they need these particular jobs to support their families, or get ahead in their own lives THEY MADE THAT DECISION, they don't have to take these jobs if they are so incredibly awful. there are other jobs they could take - however, maybe those jobs don't pay as well - whatever - they chose to work for the cruise line. you seem to be totally ignoring that fact.

 

why is it that you are so determined to prove that a cruise line employee has the worst job in the world? how about the guys who drive by our house twice a week at 4AM to pick up our trash? that's a better job? or the ditch diggers at the cemetary? or, as someone else has mentioned, our troops in Iraq - you think that's a cushy 9 to 5 job?

 

are you so well-off that money doesn't matter to you? that you can freely splurge all you've got on those who do not have? and, if so, how exactly did you and your family get there?

 

it's a free world darling. if they didn't like the work, the conditions, or what it provides, I seriously doubt they would be working there - huh? how is it that most of these folks are not on their first 6 month contracts, but are experienced crew?

 

you have tunnelvision and no matter what anyone says, to you these folks have the worst jobs in existence. that's ok - that's you view of it. but don't take offense if people don't agree with you. as you can see, most don't.

 

your calling in life might be to start a union for these folks with no union dues - you of course will be footing the costs because you wouldn't want to take any money from them - they have and get so little of it.

 

think about it.

[goodml]

How can you compare the cramped' date=' clausterphobic conditions of the crew quarters (2 sleep to a a room smaller then the lowest class interior cabin) to the living arrangements of your home? Have you ever been on a long cruise, where even in the lap of luxery, you are ready to get off the ship? Imagine waiting hand and foot for 6 months at a time on a structure that is constantly at sea.

 

I cannot even fathom the lonliness of being thousands of miles from your loved ones, friends, and family. To have to attempt to fill the void with the company of complete strangers who expect you to be at your best, all the time. It is a lifestyle that is so artificial, so imposing, so against the fabric of a traditional profession that trying to compare across professions based soley on monitary value is absurd.

[/quote']

 

 

Your kidding right? Have you never moved away from your family for a given period of time? What about people who go off to college and live in a cramped little dorm room? Like others have said, what about your soldiers in Iraq? Come on, these crew members are not living in squalor. They are not being stolen from their homelands and forced to work in the dungeons of these horrible, horrible cruise ships. Have you never travelled off the beaten paths of some of your cruise ship ports and seen the way some of these people live? Take a drive thru the rain forest in Jamaica and look at all the tiny huts along the way that people live in. These jobs are a dream come true for many. Their standards are simply not what ours are in North America.

 

The agricultural industry is huge where I live. Migrant workers come up from Mexico and Jamaica for 10 months out of the year to work in the greenhouses and send money back to their families. There is never a shortage of them willing to do these jobs (that our own people are unwilling to do by the way) in order to improve their quality of life and most of them come back year after year. Do they get lonely? Absolutely, but it's a price they are willing to pay and they form clubs where they can meet up and socialize.

 

I agree with the others - time to take the blinders off and stop being so superior. The crew members are there by choice and if they're not cut out for the job then they can choose not to go back when their contract is over.

 

For the record, our family of four tips the recommended amount and has at times given extra for outstanding service. I have never had occasion to do so but I would not have a problem reducing the amount of the tip for someone who has not performed their duties. An interesting thing happened on our last cruise. We handed our cabin steward an extra $20 at the end of the cruise and he said 'thank you, I will accept that if you wish but if you really want to show your appreciation please write a great review for me on the comment card. This would help a great deal as this is my last week for this contract and I want to come back again.'

[Tatka]

For the cruise lines, there is no union to regulate workers' pay, hours, etc. Consequently, the staff can be forced to work many hours, 7 days a week, 183 days a year, for very little money. Granted, they choose to work for this job to feed their kids and make a better life, but look at it this way: do you honestly believe that your cabin attendant or waiter does $7.00 worth of work per couple? No way! And I'm sorry ILov2cruise, but could you live on a $12,000 with a family at home?

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for your input, and happy cruising!!!

Hah... If still lived in Ukraine(or other Eastern European countries ) and our family could make $500 a month we would be just fine. And we are both professionals (there and here). ;) What is that $6,000 a year? (making $12,000 a year would allow us to save money and buy 1 or 2 bedroom in cash in couple of years)

 

 

And...btw I understand it's hard to work long time away from your family..but I fail to see how bigger tip can help it?

[Krazy4Kruisin']

ok, here's my 2 cents worth.

I talked to several of the employees on our cruise ship (Serenade) last week. They all mentioned one reason for working on a cruise is to be able to travel very cheaply. I haven't seen anyone here talk about that as a reason. Several also told me that the money they make is way more than they could make in their home country. Many have families back home and this extra money allows them to live better. Have you ever seen an American working on a ship? I am sure there might be some, but I haven't seen one. (However, there were lots of Canadians on the Serenade and I don't consider that a poor country, but with the ship sailing from Vancouver, it is a good opportunity) They are usually from countries with far less than we have in America. Yes, there are millions of underpaid workers in US, but compared to other countries, we have it pretty damn good.

 

Another thing I noticed on our ship is how many crew members are married to each other. One blackjack dealer told me that of the 30 casino staff, more than half are married to other crew members. Our head waiter is married to a blackjack dealer. She told me that although they are married, they sleep in bunk beds because that is all that fits in their room.

 

Many of the ports had free shuttles for the crew that took them to places like Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. I saw a crew person bringing back lots of juice cans, sweets, etc from such a trip.

 

Anyway, that said, we had a fantastic head waiter, waiter and assistant waiter. We tipped each one accordingly and they deserved every penny extra we gave them. We appreciated their extra effort. An example: the first night, we asked our assistant waiter for a bowl of lemons for the table. Every meal after that, she had the bowl waiting for us. One of our friends asked for coffee with his meal the first night. Every meal after that, she was ready with his coffee. That's the kind of service that earned her a hefty bonus besides the recommended gratuity. Our waiter was every bit as good. We told him at the beginning of the week we would want extra lobster tails on that night. He remembered and that night, he had placed the order for several more for our table. I also noticed that on this ship, we never saw a Maitre'D. On other ships, he would come by the 2nd to last night to make his presence known before tipping night. But not this time. Oh well.

As for our cabin attendant, he was nothing exciting. He did make the towel animals the last half of the week, but I don't think he did anything out of the ordinary. We drank bottled water from our mini-bar and he never replaced it with new bottles. I had to ask him for our Platinum coupon book and our robes because he didn't bring either on his own. However, we still tipped him extra, but just not as much as the dining room staff.

[Cruiz'nTall]

ahahahaha! good one. why do any of us work? I dont know what the color of the sky is in your world, but, for the overwhelming majority of people, the job they take is in fact based on monetary value.

 

last I checked, it takes money to put food on the table, keep a roof over our heads, provide for our families and even take the cruises that pay these cruise emplyees. in the world we live in, everything is based on monetary value and there's no way that you are going to change that. your value system doesn't rank money too high and that's fine for you. don't think that everyone, or even many folks live by your value system.

 

these cruise employees are being given the opportunity to take that job - nobody is holding a gun to their heads forcing them. if they decide they need these particular jobs to support their families, or get ahead in their own lives THEY MADE THAT DECISION, they don't have to take these jobs if they are so incredibly awful. there are other jobs they could take - however, maybe those jobs don't pay as well - whatever - they chose to work for the cruise line. you seem to be totally ignoring that fact.

 

why is it that you are so determined to prove that a cruise line employee has the worst job in the world? how about the guys who drive by our house twice a week at 4AM to pick up our trash? that's a better job? or the ditch diggers at the cemetary? or, as someone else has mentioned, our troops in Iraq - you think that's a cushy 9 to 5 job?

 

are you so well-off that money doesn't matter to you? that you can freely splurge all you've got on those who do not have? and, if so, how exactly did you and your family get there?

 

it's a free world darling. if they didn't like the work, the conditions, or what it provides, I seriously doubt they would be working there - huh? how is it that most of these folks are not on their first 6 month contracts, but are experienced crew?

 

you have tunnelvision and no matter what anyone says, to you these folks have the worst jobs in existence. that's ok - that's you view of it. but don't take offense if people don't agree with you. as you can see, most don't.

 

your calling in life might be to start a union for these folks with no union dues - you of course will be footing the costs because you wouldn't want to take any money from them - they have and get so little of it.

 

think about it.

Perhaps your cranium is thicker then I thought. You are not understanding my point, so I will make it very clear.

 

My arguement isn't about whether cruiseline employees are forced to take their particular job even though you could argue that global inequality in the labour market forces people to take jobs that otherwise no one else will (case in point, as someone mentioned, have you ever seen an American working on a cruis ship?).

 

This arguement about our soldiers in Iraq is also ludicrous. How can you compare a wartime environment to a cruiseship? Have any of you ever been to crew quarters? Honestly? I doubt many of you have. You speak of room and board as if its this grandious living arrangement. Squalor is a state of disaray - not a state of confinement for whomever unwisely chose to try and use that word to describe their arrangements. I never said they were messy - I said that they were cramped.

 

I am sure that there is a percentage of employees that value their job - and if they didn't you could never hardly tell, could you? Why? Because if they don't keep up the appearnce of not only being completely content on doing what they are doing, but also being charged with satisfying your every wim, and wearing a smile about it the whole time. One of you attempted to claim that I am relating this occupation to some type of endentured servitude or even slavery - which again is absurd although it does seem to share some of those gualities, doesn't it.

 

I am no more well off then anyone else, but I have a fundemental understanding of fairness and equity - and a sympathy for human plight, as my family was once in that position.

 

My main issue when I first posted was your not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone regarding cruise line employees because of their nationality and socio-economic status. This notion that they should be lucky for what they have, as if their status is somehow reduced relative to your loftly, off-putting sense of entitlement just because of who and what they are. Why shouldn't you be lucky for what you have? Why shouldn't you regard yourself just as (if not absurdly more lucky?). These folks may never realize a profession any better then this - their opportunites are inherently limited. In this country any idiot can go to school, spend mommy and daddy's money and get a degree that they will put to good waste - whle others have the will, the drive, and the inherent intelligence but not the means, so they are relegated to a workforce of servitude.

 

We take so much for granted in this country, half of us don't even choose to get off our fat, lazy asses and exercise the most fundamental right inherent with our freedom: to vote, yet we have the audacity and arrogance to judge others have don't have half of our liberties.

[Tatka]

My main issue when I first posted was your not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone regarding cruise line employees because of their nationality and socio-economic status. This notion that they should be lucky for what they have' date=' as if their status is somehow reduced relative to your loftly, off-putting sense of entitlement just because of who and what they are. Why shouldn't you be lucky for what you have? Why shouldn't you regard yourself just as (if not absurdly more lucky?). These folks may never realize a profession any better then this - their opportunites are inherently limited. In this country any idiot can go to school, spend mommy and daddy's money and get a degree that they will put to good waste - whle others have the will, the drive, and the inherent intelligence but not the means, so they are relegated to a workforce of servitude.[/size']

 

We take so much for granted in this country, half of us don't even choose to get off our fat, lazy asses and exercise the most fundamental right inherent with our freedom: to vote, yet we have the audacity and arrogance to judge others have don't have half of our liberties.

This is absolutely right! I don't know about people from South America or Asia working on ships...but people from Eastern Europe are mostly well educated. (Schools and higher education are very good there, and for the most part free).

 

Last year on Century I met a 22 years old Russian guy form Latvia(I think)...we talked alot. He graduated from university as a computer programmer but because of inability to find a job and having wife and 2 years old he decided to work on cruise ship.

 

He had only 1 contract before and still didn't get stateroom attendants job (he helps to clean bathrooms and cleans public areas). They get under $500 a month , but their flight and food(although poor quality) are paid by the line.

 

He also said that waiters and cabin attendants get $50 a month + tips which is around $3000 - $4000 and also that people from the lower level cabins are better tippers. He said that to get cabin attendant position you have to be in very good relationships with management and sometimes even bribe them.

 

I didn't give him any tips (he wasn't my cabin attendant) but I bought T-Shirt, toy and toy-glasses for his kid (he didn't want to tak money) . After that he probably thought that he has to do something good for me and brought all photos of me and my son I didn't buy from the photo gallery . He was told to destroy them. ;)

[Cruiz'nTall]

Hah... If still lived in Ukraine(or other Eastern European countries ) and our family could make $500 a month we would be just fine. And we are both professionals (there and here). ;) What is that $6,000 a year? (making $12,000 a year would allow us to save money and buy 1 or 2 bedroom in cash in couple of years)

 

 

And...btw I understand it's hard to work long time away from your family..but I fail to see how bigger tip can help it?

By the way, I have never argued for a bigger tip, only that you tip farily, appropriately, and without a patronizing and condescending discord.

 

And what is escaping everyone in my arguement, is that the true culprit here is the cruiseline. They could very well pay their employees a descent wage as opposed to forcing them to rely, practically soley on tips. But the cruiseline is running a ruthless buisness of maximizing profit at all costs. They know very well that they will attract a foreign workforce that is very willing to work in this environment. By forcing them to work for tips, the cruiseline builds into their workforce a forced sense of urgency and extrinsic motivation to constantly perform at ones highest level.

 

What if today you went to work and your boss said "You know what Joe, I'm tired of paying you one salary and on some days you don't hardly do any work around here, and other days you get something done. From now on, you will only be paid when you do your best work, and only by the clients you work with if they FEEL like paying you for what you are doing."

 

So lets recap:

 

A workforce that is willing to work in conditions no American would - check

 

A workorce that is forced to work soley on gratuity so that they give their maxium effort all of the time - check

 

A buisiness that essentially ends up with free labour because they pass the expense and the discression soley onto the customer - check

 

The real winner here is ALWAYS the cruisline.

 

I hear lots of you quoting some preconceived estimate of "2000" a month in wages working on a cruise ship (which is not accurate as your tips will vary WIDELY - yet I don't see a single one of you rushing to apply to work on a cruise ship.

 

Hypocracy, is best served cold, don't you think?

[Ocean Boy]

"you could argue that global inequality in the labour market forces people to take jobs that otherwise no one else will"

 

So who is it that is forced to take any job on a cruise ship?

 

"Have any of you ever been to crew quarters? Honestly? I doubt many of you have."

 

We aren't allowed down there but I do watch the Travel Channel and their amenities beat any dorm that I ever lived in.

 

"This arguement about our soldiers in Iraq is also ludicrous. How can you compare a wartime environment to a cruiseship?"

 

Correct, you can't compare war to cruising. However, my father worked for the Dept. of Defense, the Navy in particular. I have been on many Navy Ships. Cruise ship crew quarters are luxurious compared to a Naval vessel. And just remember, for years there was a draft in this country. Those guys had no choice but to be on those ships.

[Tatka]

I hear lots of you quoting some preconceived estimate of "2000" a month in wages working on a cruise ship (which is not accurate as your tips will vary WIDELY - yet I don't see a single one of you rushing to apply to work on a cruise ship.

Nobody is rushing to apply because $2000 is nothing in US...but believe me it's huge in Eastern Europe, Aisa etc.

[goodml]

Squalor is a state of disaray - not a state of confinement for whomever unwisely chose to try and use that word to describe their arrangements. I never said they were messy - I said that they were cramped.

 

In the words of Chandler Byng' date=' could you possibly BE any more pompous?!!

 

 

 

My main issue when I first posted was your not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone regarding cruise line employees because of their nationality and socio-economic status.

 

Your attempts to appear intellectually superior to all of us serve only to prove that it is indeed you who uses the 'not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone' both to the rest of us and to the crewmembers whose cause you seem to feel you are championing. Absolute nonsense!

[Cruiz'nTall]

"you could argue that global inequality in the labour market forces people to take jobs that otherwise no one else will"

 

So who is it that is forced to take any job on a cruise ship?

 

You are using the term "force" to imply against free will. I am using the term "force" as an socioeconomic barrier. Read on the topic, maybe you will then understand.

 

"Have any of you ever been to crew quarters? Honestly? I doubt many of you have."

 

We aren't allowed down there but I do watch the Travel Channel and their amenities beat any dorm that I ever lived in.

 

Yes, you have watched the "Travel Channel" so you now know what crew quarters look like, and have experienced being in them for extended peroids of time. People on here bitch and moan about being in interior cabins for less then a week and crew quarters are smaller and house two.

 

"This arguement about our soldiers in Iraq is also ludicrous. How can you compare a wartime environment to a cruiseship?"

 

Correct, you can't compare war to cruising. However, my father worked for the Dept. of Defense, the Navy in particular. I have been on many Navy Ships. Cruise ship crew quarters are luxurious compared to a Naval vessel. And just remember, for years there was a draft in this country. Those guys had no choice but to be on those ships.

My father was in the military for 20 years. I have been on many ships, including aircraft carriers, and diesel and trident class submarines. Yes, quarters on these ships are more cramped for sure, but they get payed a whole lot better, get benefits, college tuition, the GI bill, can train to be doctors and lawyers, get plastic surgery for free...shall I go on?

[Mark_K]

The last time I checked my interior cabin it also held two people.

[Cruiz'nTall]

Originally Posted by Cruiz'nTall

Squalor is a state of disaray - not a state of confinement for whomever unwisely chose to try and use that word to describe their arrangements. I never said they were messy - I said that they were cramped.

 

 

"In the words of Chandler Byng, could you possibly BE any more pompous?!!"

 

You label me as trying to come off as intellectually superior (which, I am not, but if you think so I can't help that) and then you go on to quote Chandler Byng?? You can't make this stuff up...

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruiz'nTall

My main issue when I first posted was your not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone regarding cruise line employees because of their nationality and socio-economic status.

 

 

 

"Your attempts to appear intellectually superior to all of us serve only to prove that it is indeed you who uses the 'not so thinly veiled patronizing and condescending tone' both to the rest of us and to the crewmembers whose cause you seem to feel you are championing. Absolute nonsense!"

 

Nothing about me is thinly veiled...and I am not here to champion a cause. My original post was about a condescending tone towards a particular socioeconomic status. And it was directed at rsinj. If you don't have his tone and perspective, then I have no problem with you.

[Cruiz'nTall]

The last time I checked my interior cabin it also held two people.

Right - and people constantly complain about the size. Imagine if it were even smaller.

[xpcdoojk]

I was wondering when the American workers party representatives were going to show up on this thread. :D :rolleyes:

 

jc

[Ocean Boy]

"get plastic surgery for free"

 

Whoa, I can just see folks bombarding their local recruiter now!

[goodml]

 

You label me as trying to come off as intellectually superior (which' date=' I am not, but if you think so I can't help that) and then you go on to quote Chandler Byng?? You can't make this stuff up...

 

[/quote']

 

 

Perhaps I should explain what the expression "tongue in cheek" means. Save yourself another snotty retort for my benefit. You're entirely too predictable.

[Cruiz'nTall]

Nobody is rushing to apply because $2000 is nothing in US...but believe me it's huge in Eastern Europe, Aisa etc.

Tatka, I don't think $2000 is nothing in the US. There are many, many people here living on MUCH less then that. How much do you think someone working at Walmart makes? Or someone who works in lower level healthcare? Or even minimum wage? Not $2000 a month, for sure.

 

The issue here is that even though they could make more money, not many are willing to trade off being away for 6 months at a time and serving others who may or may NOT even pay them. You can find another job that pays less, but doesn't require as much sacrifice.

 

The implication here is that the foreign workforce doesn't have those other opportunities, and many times working for a crise line is the absolute best alternative. Therefore, they are expected to make those sacrificies, and not think twice about them according to rsinj. Yet we apparently hold ourselves to a higher standard?

 

This is what I am getting at.

 

 

The poverty level in this country is officially $15,000 or so a year. That means a salary of $1250 a month