Room Attendant Salaries

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='xpcdoojk']The problem with posting BS is that the readers in this forum are pretty bright. So, I did a little quickie search on yahoo and guess what I found this cool little chart.

Literacy Spectrum
--------------------
Britain 100.00%
Germany 100.00%
Japan 100.00%
Switzerland 100.00%
New Zealand 99.80%
Australia 99.50%
Canada 99.00%
Russia 99.00%
France 99.00%
South Korea 97.40% 87.6%
Italy 97.40%
U.S. 95.50% 99.5% (UN) 97% (Newsweek 4/16/01)
Mongolia 95.00%
Philippines 94.00% 83.3
Thailand 93.80% 88.0
Taiwan 93.20%
Maldives 92.60%
Vietnam 91.90%
Singapore 91.60% 82.9
Hong Kong 91.20% 77.3
Mexico 90.30% 83.0
Fiji 90.10%
Malaysia 89.30%
Sri Lanka 89.30%
Brunei 89.20%
Indonesia 84.40%
Laos 83.90%
Brazil 82.10%
Myanmar 82.00%
Turkey 81.90%
South Africa 80.60%
China 80.00% 81.5% (Newsweek 4/16/01)
Macau 74.80%
Kenya 74.50%
P.N. Guinea 69.70%
Iran 64.90%
Saudi Arabia 64.10%
Nigeria 52.50%
India 52.10% 39.1
Egypt 50.00%
Black SAf 50.00% CG95
Bhutan 40.90%
Cambodia 37.80%
Bangladesh 36.60%
Pakistan 35.70% 25.2
Afghanistan 31.60%
Nepal 27.00%
Niger 13.00% CG95
(UN figures from United Nations Statistical Yearbook 37th ed)

So worst case scenario the US is at 95.5% literacy rates. I hope you are more accurate in your other hard held beliefs. :D :rolleyes:

jc

PS I learned in school that a personal belief is really only an opinion, you might want to cogitate on that. Nah... just keep the BS flowing, eventually you will string something together that makes sense.

Have a nice weekend all, I am out of here.[/QUOTE]Problem with your post is its based on statistics that assume that everyone that is illiterate, will claim they are.

If you can't even read a survey are you going to fill it out?

The actual number is probably much lower - but you are right I was probably off by a substantial amount.

My point is only validated by your post though - look at the literacy rating in developing countries that don't have a third the resoures we have - and yet they are comparable or in some cases higher.

If you look at the statistics that ranks nations on Reading, Math, Science, etc. - the US is at the bottom of most lists.

You do the math.

Also, Iraq (which was my example country) is curiously missing from your list...

[Cruiz'nTall]

[b]Study Finds U.S. High School Seniors Lag Behind Global Peers in Math and Science[/b]

[b]By Mark Sullivan [/b]
[b]Staff Writer [/b]

A major study conducted by Boston College researchers shows Europeans are the world's best mathematics and physics students at the high school level, and that their American counterparts perform well below the international average in both subjects.



These were among the latest findings of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, which were released at a Feb. 24 press conference at Conte Forum. TIMSS is the largest international study of student achievement ever undertaken, with more than 500,000 students in 45 countries tested at five grade levels. The newest set of results is taken from surveys of students in their final year of secondary school which measured mathematics and science literacy, as well as skill levels in physics and advanced mathematics.

[img]http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/rvp/pubaf/chronicle/v6/f26/timss.gif[/img] [b]Prof. Albert Beaton (SOE), right, is interviewed by National Public Radio's Tovia Smith at the Feb. 24 press conference. Looking on are TIMSS researchers Michael O. Martin and Ina V.S. Mullis. (Photo by Gary Gilbert) [/b]

According to the report, students in the Netherlands and Sweden fared best in overall mathematics and science literacy; French students performed highest in advanced mathematics; and those in Norway and Sweden led in physics. American high school seniors, meanwhile, showed a sharp drop-off in math and science skills after elementary school.


The study was sponsored by the Amsterdam-based International Association for the Evaluation of Educational Achievement (IEA), an independent international cooperative of research centers. The TIMSS International Study Center, located at Boston College, managed the study on the international level.

Researchers had previously examined math and science achievement by middle and elementary schoolers across the world, releasing results in November 1996 for 41 countries at the seventh- and eighth-grade levels, which rated Singapore as highest-performing; and in June 1997 for 26 countries at the third- and fourth-grade levels, which were led by Singapore and South Korea.

In the newly released survey, the United States received a score of 471 in mathematics and science literacy, well below the international average of 500. Scoring below the United States were Lithuania, Cyprus and South Africa. Finishing atop the rankings were the Netherlands (559) and Sweden (555). Also performing above average were Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Canada, New Zealand and Austria.

In advanced mathematics, the United States' score of 442 was below the international average of 501. Only Austria (436) scored lower. France, with a score of 557, finished atop the rankings in this category. Others performing above average were the Russian Federation, Switzerland, Denmark, Cyprus and Lithuania.

In physics, the United States was last with a score of 423, well below the international average of 501. Norway led the rankings with a score of 581. Others performing above average were Sweden, the Russian Federation and Denmark.

A gender gap also was evident in the findings, with boys outperforming girls in mathematics and science literacy in all but one of the 21 countries tested. Similarly, boys outperformed girls in physics in all but one of the 16 countries tested, and in 11 out of 16 countries which tested advanced mathematics.

The TIMSS research has indicated a downward trend in the math and science skills of American pupils in the years following the fourth grade. In mathematics, US students perform above the international average at the fourth grade, but well below it at the eighth grade. In science, American pupils are above the international average at the fourth grade, but just average at the eighth grade.

Researchers said US middle school and high school curricula may be partly to blame for the drop-off since they do not require many math and science courses. By contrast, said IEA Chairman Tjeerd Plomp, "In Europe, there is not a student who can escape mathematics." European students also must prepare for stiff national exams at the end of their senior year, while their American counterparts tend to be toning down the rigor of their classes, researchers added.

[goodml]

[QUOTE=Cruiz'nTall]I don't think I've seen a comment so insensitive on this board in a long time.
[/QUOTE]

Has anyone noticed, Join date: July 2004 Posts: 28 (as of this moment).
Can you say the 't' word? OR could this be Brad or one of our other friends back in a new form?
Darn it, I just couldn't stop myself from coming back for one more.

[mimgan3]

On average, does anyone know how many rooms a steward is responsible for on a seven day cruise, and if they have really gone to the split staff, i.e. three stewards to a room
Thanks

Mimgan

[wolfganghowell]

Cruizntall - I must jump in and take offense at several of your remarks. Since you admit to being a graduate student, I feel certain that your views will modify once you are supporting yourself full time in the working world.

Your insensitive remarks on outsourcing implying that we are lazy Americans and we deserve what is coming to us I find a slap in the face. My spouse faces outsourcing every day and every month we live in fear of losing that job - complete with benefits, medical insurance etc. Because of outsourcing, American citizens are losing American jobs to foreign nationals. I find it repulsive and lobby for our government to protect American jobs.

That being said, cruise ship jobs are not American jobs. You are missing the point by appplying American economics and wages to jobs that are not American oriented.

I urge you to search programming on the Travel Channel - there are quite a few informative programs that show what it is like to live on a cruise ship. They have their own restaurant, bar, disco, laundry, gameroom. There are people from over 30 countries usually on a ship. I was told company policy is that if any crew members fight with one another, they are off the ship. We could all learn something from these people with their multitude of cultural differences learning to get along and accept each other.

Finally, I do personally know cruise ship personnel. Several Australian personnel told me it is too expensive to travel the world and they get tired of only going to Asia. This is their opportunity. Many waiters/butlers etc work for several years away from their families and save enough money so they can return to their home countries and open their own businesses. Many employees from small Caribbean countries or poorer countries use this as a stepping stone to provide education in a social setting to improve their lives. Perhaps the years they spend on a ship is their version of college or graduate school. Had I known of these jobs in my early 20's, I would have signed on for a year or two in a snap. I would have worked hard, but I would have had a heckuva good time.

Your inability to at least acknowledge and respect the opinions of those who differ from you shows a lack of understanding that every issue has different perspectives. Since you consider the cruise ships to be a sweatshop of Evil Empire proportions, my advice to you is to stop cruising and show your contempt by taking your hard earned dollars elsewhere. I however, will continue to cruise, treat the staff and passengers with courtesy, tip accordingly and enjoy myself.

I would close with saying that on one cruise we spent a great deal of time in the casino. We had a great waiter who knew us by name and would always show up at the table at the perfect moment with a fresh drink. We had a fun dealer who made us laugh even as he took all our money. The last night I handed both of them $20 and thanked them for making the trip so special. (Remember the waiter had been tipped each drink and even though I "threatened" the dealer that if he let me win, I would tip!) I don't know who had more pleasure - they in receiving the extra or me by giving a bit extra. I always give the recommended amount and if I can afford to make a show of appreciation to those who go the extra mile for me, I will. But I will NOT be badgered into feeling "guilty" for a lifestyle that is chosen by free will.

Thank you - sorry to go on so long.

[MrsPete]

Cruisn'Tall,

I've read your posts, but I cannot find a point in them -- that is, a point beyond being argumentative. I am not clear at all what you're saying about tipping.

Having held both types in my life, I am perfectly aware that a professional job is different qualitatively from a service job. My point was that the waiters and cabin attendants are not making a bad salary; I think you missed that in speed-reading my post. Apparently you also missed the part where I explained that I am not complaining about my salary -- just comparing it to that of a service person whose job requires little education and training. As for working in my 8 weeks of summer vacation, I'm not interested. One reason I chose to teach was so I could be home with my children during the summer; my husband's salary is more than enough to keep us going.

Now, on to the dorm rooms. Yes, a college dorm room is a temporary living situation; however, most cruise ship personnel aren't there for life either. It's a young person's job. I like the comparison someone else suggested: NY apartments -- that IS a permanant home.

I also disagree with your statement that they have no freedom. Don't ships have areas for the off-duty crew to relax? Disney even has a small crew-only pool and a crew-only area on their private island. If they have time off, they can go ashore -- not, perhaps, at every stop, but sometimes.

Family values. Again, you make assumptions that are incorrect. My father came to America when he was a teenager, and I was the first child born in this country. I have family in Central America, but I have not seen them in years and years. So much for the tight-knit foreigners. I stick to my theory: some crew hate being separated from family, others don't mind or even embrace the freedom.

[k.m.]

wolfganghowell,

Very well said. Thank you for calm reason.

[MrsPete]

Cruisn'Tall is a grad student? Ah, that makes sense.

[SailBolt]

Do I get a special cruise discount for reading all these posts? Acyually, i found it to be quite fascinating and some of Cruzintall's post to be especially hilarious, in a Saturday Night Live kind of way.
I will continue to fight injustice by tipping according to the guidlines for average service and more or less depending on the situation.
Lat time I cruised, I must have missed the crew members in shackles and leg irons, but according to some of these posts, they must being utilized on the crew SOMEWHERE. Maybe it is on the galley slaves pulling on the oars.
Cruzin, it might help if you put your money where your keyboard is. Next time you pay for a cruise, trade places with a cabin steward for a week. The rest of us will hold hands and sing "We are the World", "Kumbaya" or maybe just read aloud some passages from "Das Kapital"
"Cruise Workers of the World, UNITE...........and bring me another one of those drinks with the umbrella in it."

[wolfganghowell]

Sailbolt - you're gonna get me in a trouble, I just snorted out loud at my desk [url="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"][img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif[/img][/url]

And oh yeah, I should add that I did not receive all this info from active cruise employees but from some of my current clients (actors and models) who come from many different walks of life. So no one was under any duress to give me the company line....other than the lie detector I have at my desk. [url="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"][img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_4.gif[/img][/url]

[Ocean Boy]

I am not quite sure what it is that our grad. student does in school that he thinks it is so much better than shipboard life. I spent four year doing a seven day a week job (between class and studying) and I won't count the second four years since I wasn't actually in a dorm. Classes started at 8AM and I usually left the library around 10PM. I didn't see my family for months on end, the food was nothing I would wish on an enemy, on weekends the place was filthy by the time Sunday night roled around, forget about sleeping before 2AM on weekends with all the noise. And best of all I was paying to be there instead of being paid.

You know what? The grad student has been RIGHT all along, living in a college dorm is NOTHING like crewing on a ship.

[ChickenParm]

Wow, did I open up a can of worms...........

Basically, I've just spent the last half hour reading through everybody's posts, and I have come to the following opinion, a little of everything, I would say:

Since we all know that cruise workers don't make very much money we should tip them. Tipping is quite personal, but in my opinion, the recommended tip is a minimum. Furthermore, I acknowlegde that these workers are working on their own free will, and I don't feel sorry for them. I just feel it is appropriate to reward them accordingly. If you can afford to go on a cruise, then you should be able to afford extra to tip the service staff.

Finally, I don't care what your socio-economic status is, but I believe it is rude to label people as poor, rich, or otherwise, simply because they live in a well-off suburb of Boston, in NYC, Eastern Europe, Asia, the West Indies or wherever. In general, these cruise-line employees are much friendlier and generous than the majority of the well-off people I encounter every day in Manhattan.

Either way, I will continue to enjoy every cruise I take, and be thankful for the fact that my parents work hard to bring us such a wonderful vacation so often.

Thank you, and please pardon my harsh words.
Happy Cruising!

[encoresue2]

While I certainly understand many of the comments...including "$10K take home" isn't bad....remember that this individual is sharing a room the size of an inside cabin for 6-7 months.....sending most of his/her $$ home to family who really needs it...and is generally, not living in a community where 2-3 cars, 3-4 TVs, fast food meals, and credit card debit is common. Many of the former eastern block and middle eastern countries now contribute MANY young, ambitious employees to the cruise industry because it is the only way they will ever save enough to
1. have their own business
2. buy their own home
3. send their kids to a country where "college or university" is possible.
They do not have "nannies" when THEY cruise...cannot spend 1-3 hours a day in a casino...even for a 7-day trip, and they are grateful for the phone cards that allow them to call home periodically.
Sadly, we all continue to be the "ugly americans" who grossly take for granted the lifestyle our parents and grandparents worked so hard to give us. These young people (and some of the staff is not so young) never even had a chance at what most of us have had.....so please tip generously....and remember all these people are actually thrilled with the opportunities given to them by the various cruise lines even if they only do it for a year or two....so don't embarass THEM by behaving badly, and not tipping.

[Mark_K]

encoresue2,

Exactly how does the fact that many people of many nationalities freely choose to better their circumstances, and that of their families, by working on a cruise ship make us all "ugly americans"?

[goodml]

[quote name='wolfganghowell']Sailbolt - you're gonna get me in a trouble, I just snorted out loud at my desk [url="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"][img]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif[/img][/url]
[/QUOTE]


Me too! Me too!

[wallie5446]

Well, Well, Well, It has taken a long time for this topic to rear it's un-educated head.
I post from 'personal' knowledge as my Dear 'TEXAS' Born an raised Daughter is currently employed on the Majesty of the Sea. She is 21 and Platinum Crown & Anchor. She has wanted to do this since she was 12 and went on her 2nd cruise. The rooms are nice and she has an outside. All medical is provided while under contract, even dental, and she has cavities ! It took her over 4 months to go thru the hireing process, then 6 months to get a spot on ship. When her contract is up they will fly her back to me and pay her for the 8 weeks off !
No she is not a cabin att or in the D/room. She is on the Cruise Directors Staff who's "JOB" it is, to make sure all the pax have a good time. But there is always someone who will whine about it costing to much for them to tip as the line should be payin the help more and on and on and on. We have paid the price for a no tip cruise and the service was no where near Celebrity or RCI. I will not tell just what she makes cause then you would be in line for the 500+ jobs that rotate out & in every week just on RCI around the world. She has made some great friends from all around the globe, and lots an lots of them dont ever want to go back to where they call home.

I dont see anyone tellin their Travel Agent to raise the price on their cruise.

ps: She 'Loves It' !:D

[size=4][color=red][/color][/size]

[abridalmaven]

[b]No offense to all of you but this discussion is really pointless.:p If you are too cheap to tip, do not brag about it! Restaurants here are set up the same way and if you do not like the system, then do not eat out. And the same goes for cruising. Whining about the unfairness is not worth the bother. [/b]

[b]I alway have, and always will tip generously, because I know most employees in a system that uses tipping, relies on the tips as most of their salary. I know because my son was a waiter a short time when he was attending West Point. His base pay was $2 per hour, still more than that paid on a ship. So when the work is done, I tip. If it is excellent, I tip better. It actually appears to some reading this that some are rationalizing being cheap. [color=red]AND THAT IS MY OPINION[/color]!;) [/b]

The OP was asking question and the rest of you took it as a challenge to prove whatever idiotic point you are trying to make. Oh, and where I live teachers are way overpaid ($90,000) and work less hours than I do, so trying to generalize never works, you can move or work someplace else. It is all about choices. :rolleyes:

And I know I will get flamed , but do not give a rat's ...... My spelling may be off because I had my nails done... oh and I tipped the guy! What was I thinking!:eek:

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='wolfganghowell']Cruizntall - I must jump in and take offense at several of your remarks. Since you admit to being a graduate student, I feel certain that your views will modify once you are supporting yourself full time in the working world.

Your insensitive remarks on outsourcing implying that we are lazy Americans and we deserve what is coming to us I find a slap in the face. My spouse faces outsourcing every day and every month we live in fear of losing that job - complete with benefits, medical insurance etc. Because of outsourcing, American citizens are losing American jobs to foreign nationals. I find it repulsive and lobby for our government to protect American jobs.

That being said, cruise ship jobs are not American jobs. You are missing the point by appplying American economics and wages to jobs that are not American oriented.

I urge you to search programming on the Travel Channel - there are quite a few informative programs that show what it is like to live on a cruise ship. They have their own restaurant, bar, disco, laundry, gameroom. There are people from over 30 countries usually on a ship. I was told company policy is that if any crew members fight with one another, they are off the ship. We could all learn something from these people with their multitude of cultural differences learning to get along and accept each other.

Finally, I do personally know cruise ship personnel. Several Australian personnel told me it is too expensive to travel the world and they get tired of only going to Asia. This is their opportunity. Many waiters/butlers etc work for several years away from their families and save enough money so they can return to their home countries and open their own businesses. Many employees from small Caribbean countries or poorer countries use this as a stepping stone to provide education in a social setting to improve their lives. Perhaps the years they spend on a ship is their version of college or graduate school. Had I known of these jobs in my early 20's, I would have signed on for a year or two in a snap. I would have worked hard, but I would have had a heckuva good time.

Your inability to at least acknowledge and respect the opinions of those who differ from you shows a lack of understanding that every issue has different perspectives. Since you consider the cruise ships to be a sweatshop of Evil Empire proportions, my advice to you is to stop cruising and show your contempt by taking your hard earned dollars elsewhere. I however, will continue to cruise, treat the staff and passengers with courtesy, tip accordingly and enjoy myself.

I would close with saying that on one cruise we spent a great deal of time in the casino. We had a great waiter who knew us by name and would always show up at the table at the perfect moment with a fresh drink. We had a fun dealer who made us laugh even as he took all our money. The last night I handed both of them $20 and thanked them for making the trip so special. (Remember the waiter had been tipped each drink and even though I "threatened" the dealer that if he let me win, I would tip!) I don't know who had more pleasure - they in receiving the extra or me by giving a bit extra. I always give the recommended amount and if I can afford to make a show of appreciation to those who go the extra mile for me, I will. But I will NOT be badgered into feeling "guilty" for a lifestyle that is chosen by free will.

Thank you - sorry to go on so long.[/QUOTE]
What I find blatently insensitive is that you take on a similar anti-foreign perspective by saying you are fighting "foreign nationals" as if these people somehow don't deserve the jobs that they are earning. Somehow, it is there fault that their developing country places emphasis on education and that their standard of living is so low compared to us that they are willing to work harder then we do, for a comparitively lower salary (but not from their own socioeconomic status). Blame the US companies that are paying these "foreign nationals" less money and using them as tax shelters - don't blame the "foreign nationals." That term, in and of itself is the most insensitive thing you can possibly say, and you call me insensitive?

That sickens me. These people don't deserve jobs that pay like ours? My recoil was agaisnt the perspective that those that work in the cruiseline industry should be lucky to have what they have and they don't deserve better. These are the implications that I took issue with. The rest of your argument is irrelevent.

[Cruiz'nTall]

You don't even see the ironic hypocracy in your post. She is American, but she doesn't work a service position - she works on the directors staff - where I am sure the Americans are working - and not the foreign workers....and she gets benefits...unlike those in the service area.

Thanks for making my point, exactly.


[quote name='wallie5446']Well, Well, Well, It has taken a long time for this topic to rear it's un-educated head.
I post from 'personal' knowledge as my Dear 'TEXAS' Born an raised Daughter is currently employed on the Majesty of the Sea. She is 21 and Platinum Crown & Anchor. She has wanted to do this since she was 12 and went on her 2nd cruise. The rooms are nice and she has an outside. All medical is provided while under contract, even dental, and she has cavities ! It took her over 4 months to go thru the hireing process, then 6 months to get a spot on ship. When her contract is up they will fly her back to me and pay her for the 8 weeks off !
No she is not a cabin att or in the D/room. She is on the Cruise Directors Staff who's "JOB" it is, to make sure all the pax have a good time. But there is always someone who will whine about it costing to much for them to tip as the line should be payin the help more and on and on and on. We have paid the price for a no tip cruise and the service was no where near Celebrity or RCI. I will not tell just what she makes cause then you would be in line for the 500+ jobs that rotate out & in every week just on RCI around the world. She has made some great friends from all around the globe, and lots an lots of them dont ever want to go back to where they call home.

I dont see anyone tellin their Travel Agent to raise the price on their cruise.

ps: She 'Loves It' !:D

[/QUOTE]

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='encoresue2']While I certainly understand many of the comments...including "$10K take home" isn't bad....remember that this individual is sharing a room the size of an inside cabin for 6-7 months.....sending most of his/her $$ home to family who really needs it...and is generally, not living in a community where 2-3 cars, 3-4 TVs, fast food meals, and credit card debit is common. Many of the former eastern block and middle eastern countries now contribute MANY young, ambitious employees to the cruise industry because it is the only way they will ever save enough to
1. have their own business
2. buy their own home
3. send their kids to a country where "college or university" is possible.
They do not have "nannies" when THEY cruise...cannot spend 1-3 hours a day in a casino...even for a 7-day trip, and they are grateful for the phone cards that allow them to call home periodically.
Sadly, we all continue to be the "ugly americans" who grossly take for granted the lifestyle our parents and grandparents worked so hard to give us. These young people (and some of the staff is not so young) never even had a chance at what most of us have had.....so please tip generously....and remember all these people are actually thrilled with the opportunities given to them by the various cruise lines even if they only do it for a year or two....so don't embarass THEM by behaving badly, and not tipping.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Here, Here.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='Ocean Boy']I am not quite sure what it is that our grad. student does in school that he thinks it is so much better than shipboard life. I spent four year doing a seven day a week job (between class and studying) and I won't count the second four years since I wasn't actually in a dorm. Classes started at 8AM and I usually left the library around 10PM. I didn't see my family for months on end, the food was nothing I would wish on an enemy, on weekends the place was filthy by the time Sunday night roled around, forget about sleeping before 2AM on weekends with all the noise. And best of all I was paying to be there instead of being paid.

You know what? The grad student has been RIGHT all along, living in a college dorm is NOTHING like crewing on a ship.[/QUOTE]
I worked a 40 hour job a week at Walmart to earn my way through college while I took on 18 credit semesters. I woke up at 5 every morning to study and didn't go to bed until 2. I don't need to hear patronizing talk regarding working hard.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='SailBolt']Do I get a special cruise discount for reading all these posts? Acyually, i found it to be quite fascinating and some of Cruzintall's post to be especially hilarious, in a Saturday Night Live kind of way.
I will continue to fight injustice by tipping according to the guidlines for average service and more or less depending on the situation.
Lat time I cruised, I must have missed the crew members in shackles and leg irons, but according to some of these posts, they must being utilized on the crew SOMEWHERE. Maybe it is on the galley slaves pulling on the oars.
Cruzin, it might help if you put your money where your keyboard is. Next time you pay for a cruise, trade places with a cabin steward for a week. The rest of us will hold hands and sing "We are the World", "Kumbaya" or maybe just read aloud some passages from "Das Kapital"
"Cruise Workers of the World, UNITE...........and bring me another one of those drinks with the umbrella in it."[/QUOTE]
Actually, SNL was exactly what I was going for, so I'll take that as a compliment. On my last cruise on Princess, I spent about an hour with a few cabin stewarts trying to teach them a traditional Greek dance involving a chair, a glass of wine, and a bag of gummy bears. They weren't amused, but I did learn how to do a towel monkey...so all was not lost.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='MrsPete']Cruisn'Tall,

I've read your posts, but I cannot find a point in them -- that is, a point beyond being argumentative. I am not clear at all what you're saying about tipping.

Having held both types in my life, I am perfectly aware that a professional job is different qualitatively from a service job. My point was that the waiters and cabin attendants are not making a bad salary; I think you missed that in speed-reading my post. Apparently you also missed the part where I explained that I am not complaining about my salary -- just comparing it to that of a service person whose job requires little education and training. As for working in my 8 weeks of summer vacation, I'm not interested. One reason I chose to teach was so I could be home with my children during the summer; my husband's salary is more than enough to keep us going.

Now, on to the dorm rooms. Yes, a college dorm room is a temporary living situation; however, most cruise ship personnel aren't there for life either. It's a young person's job. I like the comparison someone else suggested: NY apartments -- that IS a permanant home.

I also disagree with your statement that they have no freedom. Don't ships have areas for the off-duty crew to relax? Disney even has a small crew-only pool and a crew-only area on their private island. If they have time off, they can go ashore -- not, perhaps, at every stop, but sometimes.

Family values. Again, you make assumptions that are incorrect. My father came to America when he was a teenager, and I was the first child born in this country. I have family in Central America, but I have not seen them in years and years. So much for the tight-knit foreigners. I stick to my theory: some crew hate being separated from family, others don't mind or even embrace the freedom.[/QUOTE]Here are my responses:

My point is don't judge someone soley on their occupation and don't assume that because foreigners are the majority of the work force that they are either; lucky to have what they have, or they don't deserve better. Patronizing, and arrogent - bad. Empathetic, and modest - good.

You can't compare apples to oranges (unless you are one of [i]those[/i] people).

To each his own.

Brown Polyester Bell Bottoms were never, and won't ever be, a good idea.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='goodml']Has anyone noticed, Join date: July 2004 Posts: 28 (as of this moment).
Can you say the 't' word? OR could this be Brad or one of our other friends back in a new form?
Darn it, I just couldn't stop myself from coming back for one more.[/QUOTE]I was wondering when someone astute enough would realize the discrepancy in my claim and post date.

My account got accidentally deleted and I created a new one - but I have never posted on the RCCL forum before - Only Princess since that is with whom my previous cruises were with.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[QUOTE]Family values. Again, you make assumptions that are incorrect. My father came to America when he was a teenager, and I was the first child born in this country. I have family in Central America, but I have not seen them in years and years. So much for the tight-knit foreigners. I stick to my theory: some crew hate being separated from family, others don't mind or even embrace the freedom.[/QUOTE]
Hmm...you were the first child born in this country...so that makes you a naturalized US citizen...am I missing something here..oh yes, of course. You are not a foreigner. You have been assimilated into American Culture...resistance is futile...

I am talking about[font=Arial] [color=black][size=3][font=Verdana][size=2]Immigrants.[/size][/font] [/size][font=Verdana][size=2]Second generation doesn't apply. [/size][/font][/color][/font]