Room Attendant Salaries

[Mark_K]

As far as I can tell, Cruiz'n Tall is saying that we should treat cruise line employees with respect, including when we tip (which is true), that they work hard and are away from their families for long periods (which is true and also true of lots of non-cruiseline jobs), and that world economic conditions do not favor developing countries (which is also true).

Most everything else is her being argumentative and doing a poor job of getting her points across.

There is also a subplot about how RCI is one of those "greedy corporations" that "oppresses" their employees, and forces them to work under harsh conditions. Part of her world view, which you may or may not agree with, but one that you will not sway her from regardless of how many contrary facts you present. It would be more productive to just quit trying.

[rsinj]

[QUOTE]It would be more productive to just quit trying.[/QUOTE]sounds good to me - I'm out of here.

[wallie5446]

Cruizntall,
The CD staff makes about 1/2 of what a Room Steward does, an about 1/3 of what an 'average' Waiter/Waitress does. But the bottom line is that everyone is there because they want to be and like to be. And by the way, because she is a US Citizen they hold US Federal Tax out of her check.

One last note,
There is a waiter from India, he has a Bachelors Degree in Corp Commerce, and was working in the BPO sector in Chennai, India, and very well paid. What he makes as a waiter in just one month it would take him over a full year to make at home. He is 25 years old.

This I feel put's the perspective on the OP's question. One 6 month contract for him is equal to 6 YEARS at home. You see many who have been with a Cruise line for many years.

[Richro]

Cruizntall...learn how to spell amusement.

[goodml]

Please please please let him hate the Sovereign so he can post his nasty review and head on back to teaching socioeconomics on the Princess board!

[gypsygirl]

Back to the original subject. I still think it's very rude to ask someone how much they make. How many of us would like the crew (or anyone) to ask us how much we make?

[wblevin]

[Yes, they are away from family, but so are many other people. The US military personnel in Iraq come to mind right away. Consider, too, that many of the crew are still very young and are in see-the-world, get-away-from-the-family mode. Again, this is a choice. Probably some embrace the opportunity to leave family behind, while others hate it.

[/QUOTE]

Mrs. Pete - you are sooo right - and somehow it has just been bypassed in this thread. I've gotten through three pages and find it so ironic that people are feeling sorry for the cruise staff that works so long and hard at their jobs for so little pay. They then feel that they must compensate the workers whether or not they did a good job because you are paying their salary.

We all have made a decision on how we chose to earn a living. Any passenger that has sailed on a cruise ship has a considerably higher income than more than 1/2 the people in this world. And then we sit at our computers and discuss these "poor" people that work on cruise ships and how miserable their lives must be. I think NOT.

Let us all consider cruise staff positions vs. OUR U.S. military - stop and really think about it! Particularly the military stationed in Iraq and Afganistan now.

SALARY One of the lowest paying jobs on a ship is the Utility cleaner (entry level position $600-$800/month cleaning public areas with possibilities of promotion to Cabin Steward whose salary is listed as $1200-$1500/month based on gratuities). Starting pay in our military $600/month!! Room and board is also included with both salaries - right - great deal. So the $600/month is for their personal spending money - no taxes! BUT no tips either - not one!! And room and board on a ship has to be considerably more comfortable than accommodations in Iraq or Afganistan barracks (if they are lucky).

LEAVING FAMILY Cruise worker signs a contract for 6 months at which time they go home to their families. Military personnel also leave their families behind but many for a lot longer than 6 months!!

TIME OFF Yeah military personnel may or may not get time off but for those stationed in the Middle East?? hey, the Middle East is a great place to hang - lots of things to do in their free time - right?? Most cruise lines provide exercise rooms and game halls for their staff and they do not truly work 24/7 - they all have some afternoons and/or evenings to go shopping or to the beaches or watch TV. Where would you rather be on your time off??

FAMILY think of the families of each worker. Think about a US family living on or off of a military base vs. a family from India or Croatia or Africa or Nicaragua or Haita (to name just a few places of the crew on our most recent cruise). $600/month doesn't go very far in the U.S. compared to those countries!

RISK FACTOR Thousands and thousands of our military risk their lives every single day and get paid less than most cabin stewards, waiters, etc etc on cruise ships. When was the last time a ship employee had to risk his/her life!!

Every one of the ship staff made a decision - for some it becomes an occupation for life - for others it is a way of leaving home and seeing the world - for some it means earning more money than possible at home and a better lifestyle for their families - if not themselves. They do have a job and they get paid - they do not risk their lives and can leave if and when they choose. The more pleasant and personable and efficient, the more tips they receive. If you think about it - a cabin steward spends about 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the evening in your room - sometimes less. $7 per day for that service for a couple is reasonable IMHO ($14/hour including room and board with no taxes). I am sure some people stiff them - on the other hand, others pay more (I often do). But to feel sorry for them because they are so overworked and underpaid - I don't think so!

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='Mark_K']

Most everything else is her being argumentative and doing a poor job of getting her points across.

There is also a subplot about how RCI is one of those "greedy corporations" that "oppresses" their employees, and forces them to work under harsh conditions. Part of her world view, which you may or may not agree with, but one that you will not sway her from regardless of how many contrary facts you present. It would be more productive to just quit trying.[/QUOTE]
On second thought - my arguements are fine, it's the counter arguments that are weak. I can be [b]dissuaded [/b]but only by valid criticisms and arguements. If your argument isn't even internally consistent (or even interpretable) then, sorry, try again.

And the subplot, as you so aptly refer to it, is not specific to RCCL, but rather generalized to the cruise industry. And I never said harsh conditions. What has been going on here, is with every resposne to my posts, people have continued to overstate my arguements recarding the conditions cruise line workers are subjected to.

I never said they worked in harsh conditions - my reaction was to those that claimed they lived luxuriously - which is absurd.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='goodml']Please please please let him hate the Sovereign so he can post his nasty review and head on back to teaching socioeconomics on the Princess board![/QUOTE]
Huh?

That has nothing to do with this thread. I've never said anything in reference to RCCL specifically, only the curise lines in general.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='Richro']Cruizntall...learn how to spell amusement.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, I misspelled amusement - as if you have never misspelled a word before - and for that fact haven't noticed the rampant atrocities in spelling and grammar by others on this board. You choose to focus on my misspelling of amusement.

How amusing.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rsinj']look who's talking.

we all need to have our Walmarts? have you ever heard of the concept of supply and demand? I seriously doubt it, because if you did, you might understand how idiotic all of your arguments through this whole thread are. supply and demand controls everything in economics - not just in America, but the world. you just think about it a moment, then apply it to your problem with Walmart, cheap food, fuel, cruise employee pay and work conditions. I can't wait for your response as you'll now begin redefining basic economic concepts for us to fit your mission.


look who needs to understand world economics. if we can produce enough agricultural products to feed the world, and we did, just where do you think that would leave countries that depend on agricultural exports to make money? most of us are fully aware of the government subsidizing farmers not to grow crops, but, your reason as to why is totally in left field.

supply and demand babe.

take your own advice.[/QUOTE]
Wow. You've really adopted some extrordinarily ill defined and unsupported positions in the past (read stupid) but this takes the cake.

So, you typed over 150 words and essentially said the following:

Supply and Demand (which has nothing to do with this argument)

Babe

Very impressive. To think what you coud do with more time and space and perhaps a different forum.

Instead of defining your own arguments, and then elucidating how absurd they are, I am going to let you do the work this time.

Please, enlighten me on how the concept of Supply and Demand relates to my arguements. Don't just say "Supply and Demand, babe" - to which my first response is I am at the very least, not your babe and never will be.

I want elaboration, and justification.

I might have a better chance at wining the lottery, however, wouldn't I?

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='ChickenParm']Cruzn'Tall,

Although your summations about world economics are quite scholarly, erudite, and humorous, I wish you would frankly just cut the crap. I will make myself very clear:

Nobody cares that you are able to quote passages from your college Econ text, which you had to read at 5:00am because you had a 40hr/week job, and then connect it to your father's hardships in the Greek Navy while all the time using really large words that most people have to get a dictionary to understand!

I started this thread to find out how much Room Attendants are paid. I've determined that we do need to tip, based on the expected level of service. I'm sorry, but I'm not starting HS Econ class until September, not NOW!

Have a pleasant day.[/QUOTE]
Well, I agree with you on one hand - that this has gotten out of hand. However, I am not quoting any high school or college text - it's called original thought - try it it some time.

Secondly, I was asked specifically what my father did, and how he related to my arguements - I didn't spontaneously bring him up - so thanks for being unnecessarily rude.

Have a psuedo-pleasant tomorrow.

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rocktheboat']Isn't anyone else tired of Miss I think I No It All, Everyone have a nice cruise.


Bye Maria[/QUOTE]
Why do people keep thinking I am female? It's Mr. I think I no it all....christ, if you are going to take a jab at me, at least get the sex right!

[Cruiz'nTall]

[quote name='rocktheboat']Isn't anyone else tired of Miss I think I No It All, Everyone have a nice cruise.


Bye Maria[/QUOTE]
Oh, and btw, when you've had enough dinner - generally you stop eating.

Ergo...no one is putting a gun to your head to continue reading this thread.

[Cruiz'nTall]

Originally Posted by [b]rocktheboat[/b]
[i]Isn't anyone else tired of Miss I think I No It All, Everyone have a nice cruise.[/i]


[i]Bye Maria[/i]



Well, I am getting tired of this thread so I am going to end my participation in it by summarizing what my main points where before this thread got out of control: - except for rsinj - you aren't off the hook -

1.) Tip fairly (which I never suggested anyone here doesn't already) and don't make assumptions or judgements about cruiseline employees (or anyone for that matter) based on their occupation, race, gender, ethnicity, nationality - whatever.

2.) Drink at least 8 glasses of water during any given cruising day.

3.) Being opinionated doesn't mean you are a "know it all." If you cant articulate a cohesive argument - don't attempt to patronize someone who can.

3.) And, finally to actually quote someone - I will leave you with a little something, something from my favorite US president:

"For in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

- John F. Kennedy

[Mark_K]

[QUOTE=Cruiz'nTall]On second thought - my arguements are fine, it's the counter arguments that are weak. I can be [b]dissuaded [/b]but only by valid criticisms and arguements. If your argument isn't even internally consistent (or even interpretable) then, sorry, try again.

And the subplot, as you so aptly refer to it, is not specific to RCCL, but rather generalized to the cruise industry. And I never said harsh conditions. What has been going on here, is with every resposne to my posts, people have continued to overstate my arguements recarding the conditions cruise line workers are subjected to.

I never said they worked in harsh conditions - my reaction was to those that claimed they lived luxuriously - which is absurd.[/QUOTE]Most people aren't very good at being objective regarding the quality of their own arguments. However, a count of the people persuaded by yours might give you an indication.

By law, RCI (and other cruselines) is required to do their best to maximize the value of their shareholders' investment, it's part of their fiduciary responsibility. They do a pretty good job, while at the same time providing acceptable (less than harsh) living conditions for their employees.

[xpcdoojk]

I feel like I have been reading the writings of a graduate of the Noam Chomsky school of economic theory. Of course Mr. Chomsky isn't an economist. ;) As an economist, I am simply at a loss for words to describe the BS posted by our 33 year old 4 countries lived in genius.

I am sorry I was out of town all weekend and missed this momentous load. :D Hopefully, he/she has run out of thoughts on this topic, but somehow I doubt. The funniest thing is after 7 pages of discourse, I am still looking for the point.

jc

[Ocean Boy]

[QUOTE=Cruiz'nTall]Good, you can do math. Wheew...

Maybe you can't do math afterall...

so thanks for being unnecessarily rude.[/QUOTE]

Nothing like the pot calling the kettle black....

[Rustynail]

[B][SIZE=4][COLOR=DarkRed]Anyone else heard about the $3.95 Johnny Rocket surcharge???? ;) ;)
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[Merion_Mom]

RUSTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was drinking when I read that! Now it's YOUR fault that there's spit all over my keyboard and monitor screen!!!!!!!!!

Carol ;)

[k.m.]

I think they should raise it.

[Magicat]

Hey Rusty! Have heard about it but paying the extra $3.95 USD will definately not cause us to:

1. Cancel our cruise and any future cruises.
2. Stiff the cabin attendents or wait staff out of their well deserved tips.
3. Save extra chairs on the pool deck just out of spite.
4. Throw items over board.
5. Avoid the muster drill.
6. Go to bed early during our cruise.
7. Boycott any event that hands out free drinks eg. Captains party, Welcome back party, Art Auction, etc...
8. Wear cutoff jean shorts with black socks and sandles on formal night.
9. Be rude and insensitive to our fellow passengers

And the most important thing...
10. Not to have great time on the cruise!

Is the food at JR's good?

[greybear]

Wow,

this is twice now - in the same week - that I have entered a thread way to late to participate in the discussions.

I am sorry that Mr. Professor Cruizntall has decided to bail. I guess it took him 7 pages to realize that not one soul was buying into his BS... a feat that would take most of us one page.

Hmmm, I wonder who has got more going on between the synapses.... Cruizntall or dot-e?? To borrow an earlier thought expressed by another CC board member, wouldn't I just love a showdown between those two!!!

[bUU]

[quote name='Mark_K']Most people aren't very good at being objective regarding the quality of their own arguments. However, a count of the people persuaded by yours might give you an indication.[/QUOTE]Sounds reasonable. Doesn't always work out that way, but seems to be the case this time.

[quote name='Mark_K']By law, RCI (and other cruselines) is required to do their best to maximize the value of their shareholders' investment, it's part of their fiduciary responsibility. They do a pretty good job, while at the same time providing acceptable (less than harsh) living conditions for their employees.[/QUOTE]Well said. While many passengers tend to overlook or denigrate these obligations, they are indeed legal requirements.

It is reasonable to disagree about whether the system should be the way it is, but it is silly to argue about how the system IS. The system is the way it is. Patronage of the services of a cruise line carries with it the expectation to tip as per the guidelines provided by the cruise line. Passengers can indeed choose not to comply, true, and be considered deviant as a result. It's very simple.

[wolfganghowell]

Rusty - I'm glad I wasn't drinking either.

I still don't understand why CT insists on remaining here and actually taking cruises. His views of cruise lines are, as I stated, the Evil Empire. SO QUIT CRUISING ON THEM AND CONTRIBUTING TO THEM SINCE YOU HATE THEM SO MUCH.

And CT, I was not being insensitive to foreign nationals by stating that I will lobby against outsourcing. I totally blame the companies that replace AMERICAN workers and hire foreign nationals to do AMERICAN jobs. There is absolutely nothing insensitive in that. I don't think Americans should go into other countries and take jobs from their citizens. And many countries have laws in place to prevent it. Your contempt for Americans shows through very clearly. This board is a microcosm of American society yet you insulted and berated every single poster who challenged your ideas. A true adult can look at issues from both sides and make a considered decision. You have your ideas and anyone who questions them is wrong. Your behavior on this board has been embarassing. You deliberately choose to inflame everyone and have turned a rather common subject on these boards into a rant where you insulted every single poster - breaking the guidelines of this board. I am surprised the hosts have not pulled this nonsense.