Passport Clarification Needed..

[PrincessE]

While Stephanie's post might have been worded a little bit better, I really don't think your admonishment or attempt at clarification made things meaningfully clearer. :rolleyes:

 

My comment may have been useful to someone else. You don't know that. This IS a discussion board and my comment was relevant.

 

Thanks for your opinion. We're all entitled to them.

[PrincessE]

actually being a convicted felon will not prevent you from getting a passport. Many felons who have completed their sentences are fully able to get a passport. Being wanted will, if it has been reported to the FBI's data bank. So will eventually not paying child support. It too gets reported but of course only if its actually reported. There is a specific federal law about withholding passports for child support violators. Of course paying child support or even working out arrears is not necessarily a reason for a passport to be withheld. So I'll say it again the two main reasons for people not being able to get a passport is being on list of wanted people or people in arrears on child support.

here is the proof

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/family/family_863.html

 

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/info/info_870.html

 

Until you've lived it, experienced it, know first hand of it then these are just your opinions. I know what I'm talking about. Period.

[smeyer418]

Until you've lived it, experienced it, know first hand of it then these are just your opinions. I know what I'm talking about. Period.

?

 

what are just my opinions? can you please explain what you mean? I am also sure that conviction of a felony, once you have completed your sentence(including probation) does not mean you don't get a passport.

 

You haven't lost your civil rights. Even in most states you can vote once your sentence is complete(some not all)

Edited August 25, 2010 by smeyer418

[cherylandtk]

I am italian and have an italian passport.

Cruising with Costa, each time you got on/off the ship, you had to show your passport to prove your identity when going back on the ship.

This increases the risk of having it stolen while on land.

Now I'm going around Hawaii with HAL, the question is :

is the new identity pass with photo ok for getting on/off the ship or do I still have to carry around my passport because the port officials want to see it too??

It is likely that HAL will keep your passport for the length of the cruise; even if they do not, you can use any other picture ID along with your cruise card to get on and off the ship.

[fayruz]

It is likely that HAL will keep your passport for the length of the cruise; even if they do not, you can use any other picture ID along with your cruise card to get on and off the ship.

I'll try with my university id card.

[Travelcat2]

Regarding the last two posts, I agree completely that you will not need your passport to get back onto your ship in Hawaii. Your university I.D. will work fine.

 

In terms of the other recent posters. . . . . although PrincessE could have used a softer tone in her posts, she certainly should have the right to post what she knows to be true without having the information challenged. The subject of this thread does lend itself to challenges, which, in most cases is a good thing since U.S. Passport information is sketchy at best on the internet. Although someone's personal experience may be different than yours, that does not make it incorrect. JMO:)

[smeyer418]

Regarding the last two posts, I agree completely that you will not need your passport to get back onto your ship in Hawaii. Your university I.D. will work fine.

 

In terms of the other recent posters. . . . . although PrincessE could have used a softer tone in her posts, she certainly should have the right to post what she knows to be true without having the information challenged. The subject of this thread does lend itself to challenges, which, in most cases is a good thing since U.S. Passport information is sketchy at best on the internet. Although someone's personal experience may be different than yours, that does not make it incorrect. JMO:)

of course she is entitled to her "opinion" but I would like to know what she feels are my opinion and not facts.

 

Most people don't get passports because they don't send it the right paper work but they are able to get the passport when they provide the documents or the substitutes that are accepted. Its a relatively small group that can not get passports at all. The largest group is those in jail or not having completed a sentence including probation. Once its complete they can get a passport. the next largest group is those who are in arrears(seriously) for child support. there are almost no other reason you can't get a passport(the unavailability of certain documents always has an alternative way-unless you have never been on the grid- never attended school don't know people never show up in a census report) so I would like to know if she has some additional reason. I have an open mind on the issue....but a statement that says "until you have lived it you don't know" is frankly meaningless. Lived what? not getting a passport? you don't know the reason either. if the person merely has a reputation you don't really know anything about that person...i.e. does he have another child somewhere which he has abandoned? yeah I know it doesn't happen....

[Travelcat2]

of course she is entitled to her "opinion" but I would like to know what she feels are my opinion and not facts.

 

Most people don't get passports because they don't send it the right paper work but they are able to get the passport when they provide the documents or the substitutes that are accepted. Its a relatively small group that can not get passports at all. The largest group is those in jail or not having completed a sentence including probation. Once its complete they can get a passport. the next largest group is those who are in arrears(seriously) for child support. there are almost no other reason you can't get a passport(the unavailability of certain documents always has an alternative way-unless you have never been on the grid- never attended school don't know people never show up in a census report) so I would like to know if she has some additional reason. I have an open mind on the issue....but a statement that says "until you have lived it you don't know" is frankly meaningless. Lived what? not getting a passport? you don't know the reason either. if the person merely has a reputation you don't really know anything about that person...i.e. does he have another child somewhere which he has abandoned? yeah I know it doesn't happen....

 

I respectfully feel that you should just let this go. We do not know her situation and, IMO, it is none of our business. She appears to be disagreeing with blanket statements about why you cannot get a passport. Apparently either she or someone she knows was denied a passport for another reason. Unfortunately, I must agree that there are laws in this country that are contradictory and confusing to many. Unless someone on the board is an attorney that specializes in this area and identifies themselves as one (which would be great), most of what we write are opinions . . . . or, we copy or link statements from different agencies that may or may not be correct or current.

[smeyer418]

I respectfully feel that you should just let this go. We do not know her situation and, IMO, it is none of our business. She appears to be disagreeing with blanket statements about why you cannot get a passport. Apparently either she or someone she knows was denied a passport for another reason. Unfortunately, I must agree that there are laws in this country that are contradictory and confusing to many. Unless someone on the board is an attorney that specializes in this area and identifies themselves as one (which would be great), most of what we write are opinions . . . . or, we copy or link statements from different agencies that may or may not be correct or current.

I am an attorney one of my former partners specializes in immigration law including passports. I linked to the passport agencies discussion of denial for back child support. Are there other "one of" reasons? sure but 99.5% of denials(as opposed to need more info) are either currently serving a felony term(or on probation/parole) or failure to pay support. As I said she is entitled to her opinion but not that the person has a completed felony term(including finishing parole or probation) and can't get a passport-that is wrong and she shouldn't scare people who have paid their penalty to society in full. There is some issue on whether they can get a visa to another country(like Canada) but that is different from getting a passport and its the same issue to get into Canada on a cruise/passport or using a birth certificate only. That is my point. And its a clear point that she won't/can't respond to.

 

 

and that is my last point on it.

Edited August 31, 2010 by smeyer418

[Travelcat2]

I am an attorney one of my former partners specializes in immigration law including passports. I linked to the passport agencies discussion of denial for back child support. Are there other "one of" reasons? sure but 99.5% of denials(as opposed to need more info) are either currently serving a felony term(or on probation/parole) or failure to pay support. As I said she is entitled to her opinion but not that the person has a completed felony term(including finishing parole or probation) and can't get a passport-that is wrong and she shouldn't scare people who have paid their penalty to society in full. There is some issue on whether they can get a visa to another country(like Canada) but that is different from getting a passport and its the same issue to get into Canada on a cruise/passport or using a birth certificate only. That is my point. And its a clear point that she won't/can't respond to.

 

 

 

and that is my last point on it.

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't either -- no point to it. If you can't get a passport, that is pretty much the end of the story (at least for now).

 

Another thought. . . . . being an attorney, what seems easy to understand to you may not be for us lay people. For instance, I am a fairly intelligent person, but, could not understand your last paragraph. Having said that, whatever you were thinking about Canada. . . . I do have first hand knowledge about some of their unclear laws. My step-daughter had a DUI 8+ years prior to landing in Ottawa (had a passport). She was detained until we arrived at the airport and paid $200 for a "temporary" entry into Canada. I found it interesting that she was not someone they wanted in the country (which is fine -- their call). . . . until someone paid $200 which suddenly made her more desirable??? Don't have to answer that. Just an example.

 

Please don't attack me for stating what I observe with some of your posts.:o

Edited August 31, 2010 by Travelcat2

[smeyer418]

Sorry, but I wouldn't either -- no point to it. If you can't get a passport, that is pretty much the end of the story (at least for now).

 

Another thought. . . . . being an attorney, what seems easy to understand to you may not be for us lay people. For instance, I am a fairly intelligent person, but, could not understand your last paragraph. Having said that, whatever you were thinking about Canada. . . . I do have first hand knowledge about some of their unclear laws. My step-daughter had a DUI 8+ years prior to landing in Ottawa (had a passport). She was detained until we arrived at the airport and paid $200 for a "temporary" entry into Canada. I found it interesting that she was not someone they wanted in the country (which is fine -- their call). . . . until someone paid $200 which suddenly made her more desirable??? Don't have to answer that. Just an example.

 

Please don't attack me for stating what I observe with some of your posts.:o

 

My point was that getting into Canada as your daughter did on a plane where she needed a passport is the same as going to Canada on a cruise ship with a birth certificate. Its a Canadian requirement to get a visa and they do stop people with even a misdemeanor DWI(or in some states its merely a violation). The US passport has nothing to do with the requirement to get a visa. Your daughter has a passport. there is no problem getting a passport for her but there is an issue with getting a visa. Here they issued one after paying an additional fee. Some countries will refuse to the visa- passport or no passport and send her back.

 

But having a conviction won't prevent you from getting a passport- unless the sentence is not completed(including the parole probation portion)...

[Travelcat2]

My point was that getting into Canada as your daughter did on a plane where she needed a passport is the same as going to Canada on a cruise ship with a birth certificate. Its a Canadian requirement to get a visa and they do stop people with even a misdemeanor DWI(or in some states its merely a violation). The US passport has nothing to do with the requirement to get a visa. Your daughter has a passport. there is no problem getting a passport for her but there is an issue with getting a visa. Here they issued one after paying an additional fee. Some countries will refuse to the visa- passport or no passport and send her back.

 

But having a conviction won't prevent you from getting a passport- unless the sentence is not completed(including the parole probation portion)...

 

I am truly trying to follow what you are saying. The visa part is not making sense. I live 22 miles from Canada -- we have a Nexus pass and go back and forth all the time. There is no visa required in order to drive into Canada. Canada does not want people with certain convictions - no matter how many years ago it happened. This fact stated in our local newspapers frequently. However, for the right amount of $$$, it is possible to have it overturned. So, again, what role does a visa play? In my step-daughter's case, she was allowed to enter the country with a passport and $200 for temporary permission to enter the country -- the document she was given was not a visa -- it was a temporary permit. It is doubtful that you will find this in writing anywhere. . . but, this is how it works. . . . . sometimes.

 

In any event, my point is that things are not always what they seem (or what is written in obscure laws).

[smeyer418]

I am truly trying to follow what you are saying. The visa part is not making sense. I live 22 miles from Canada -- we have a Nexus pass and go back and forth all the time. There is no visa required in order to drive into Canada. Canada does not want people with certain convictions - no matter how many years ago it happened. This fact stated in our local newspapers frequently. However, for the right amount of $$$, it is possible to have it overturned. So, again, what role does a visa play? In my step-daughter's case, she was allowed to enter the country with a passport and $200 for temporary permission to enter the country -- the document she was given was not a visa -- it was a temporary permit. It is doubtful that you will find this in writing anywhere. . . but, this is how it works. . . . . sometimes.

 

In any event, my point is that things are not always what they seem (or what is written in obscure laws).

 

you daughter paid for a visa. Canada waives its visa requirement for most US Nationals but for people with convictions that it considers undesirable, they must get permission in the form of a visa in advance. Your daughter paid for a visa-permission to enter the country-Canada-called a permit to enter the country. Its a visa type approval. A visa is a permit to enter a country by definition.

[leagle]

There is another reason for not being able to get a US passport: not being a US citizen.

If you are a citizen of a country without diplomatic relations with the US, you won't be able to get a passport for your own country while you are resdent (even legally) in the US. There can be a number of years with a green card but no citizenship.

As long as we are speculating without reference to specific facts.......

 

However, IMHO, it is always a good idea to have a passport, if you can, because you never know what wonderful opportunites could arise at short notice or which emergencies which could require air travel.

Edited September 18, 2010 by leagle

[cruisinjerseygirl]

As of today what is the update on needing a passport? My best friend wants to cruise with me in 2 months and doesn't have one and is wondering if she can cruise to the bahamas without her passport but just bring her birth certificate and her license. My carnival PVP said that she can do it but my sister is arguing this. Does anyone know for sure?

[njhorseman]

As of today what is the update on needing a passport? My best friend wants to cruise with me in 2 months and doesn't have one and is wondering if she can cruise to the bahamas without her passport but just bring her birth certificate and her license. My carnival PVP said that she can do it but my sister is arguing this. Does anyone know for sure?

 

The Carnival PVP is correct. US citizens on closed loop cruises can use an original or certified copy of their birth certificate plus a government-issued photo ID such as a drivers license in lieu of a passport. Here's the information directly from DHS:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

[smeyer418]

There is another reason for not being able to get a US passport: not being a US citizen.

If you are a citizen of a country without diplomatic relations with the US, you won't be able to get a passport for your own country while you are resdent (even legally) in the US. There can be a number of years with a green card but no citizenship.

As long as we are speculating without reference to specific facts.......

 

However, IMHO, it is always a good idea to have a passport, if you can, because you never know what wonderful opportunites could arise at short notice or which emergencies which could require air travel.

 

If you are here legally from a country without relations with the US you still need a passport equivalent to pass through the US borders and you may have a real problem in a foreign country if you try to enter without a valid passport from your country of citizenship. You would normally be here on either an entry that allows you asylum or diplomatic entry and you need to be very careful about leaving the US-these people until they get a US passport tend not to leave the country. The only countries that have no relations with the US are Iran, North Korea, Cuba and I think Zimbabwe(there may be others). As with most of those countries while they don't have embassies, they do have missions to the UN and normally they handle passport issues for their citizens here legally, and as the Swiss do for US citizens in Cuba, normally a foreign embassy of another country will handle these issues on behalf of these non recognized countries here. I also doubt highly that the reason the person can't get a passport has anything to do with this anyway.

 

PS what happens in most cases is if they are here legally(with permission from both the US and their home country i.e. to go to school, they will before their passports expire is go to Canada which has relations with most of these and get the passports reissued by their countries embassy in Canada or Mexico as the case may be)...

Edited September 21, 2010 by smeyer418

[smeyer418]

If you are here legally from a country without relations with the US you still need a passport equivalent to pass through the US borders and you may have a real problem in a foreign country if you try to enter without a valid passport from your country of citizenship. You would normally be here on either an entry that allows you asylum or diplomatic entry and you need to be very careful about leaving the US-these people until they get a US passport tend not to leave the country. The only countries that have no relations with the US are Iran, North Korea, Cuba and I think Zimbabwe(there may be others). As with most of those countries while they don't have embassies, they do have missions to the UN and normally they handle passport issues for their citizens here legally, and as the Swiss do for US citizens in Cuba, normally a foreign embassy of another country will handle these issues on behalf of these non recognized countries here. I also doubt highly that the reason the person can't get a passport has anything to do with this anyway.

 

PS what happens in most cases is if they are here legally(with permission from both the US and their home country i.e. to go to school, they will before their passports expire is go to Canada which has relations with most of these and get the passports reissued by their countries embassy in Canada or Mexico as the case may be)...

 

 

fyi see this

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1280781

[dforeigner]

One thing that gets people in trouble is the Birth Certificate vs. Certification of Live Birth.

 

Many have a Certification of Live Birth rather than a Birth Certificate. These individuals show up at the pier ready to board the ship and guess what, all they have a Certification of Live Birth and therefore, are denied boarding of the ship.

[cherylandtk]

In many states a certified copy of a "Certification of Live Birth" IS the legal, certified Birth Certificate! I know, because that is what mine says. It is not the wording or title of the document that matters; what matters is that it's certified by the issuing government vital records office and is not a hospital issued document or uncertified photocopy or short form without all pertinent details (only available in some states).

[kruisin kelly]

well I wanted to put what I understand about needing a passport. I have heard that you don't NEED a passport if you leave and return from a US Port, but if there's an emergency in port and you need to get home, that you would have problems if you didn't have a passport. Personally I just applied 9 days ago (in the chicagoland area) and received it today! What a surprise and what a relief. I was quoted 4 weeks, and was happily surprised!

[Sandysandy]

Not sure if this is where I should ask this question but thought I'd start here first. I have an adopted child with a haitian passport. We are canadian citizens. Child is a permanent resident (canadian citizenship is in progress and unlikely to be finalized before cruise). Haitian passport expires at the end of March 2011. Cruise is in Feb/March 2011 leaving from NYC and going to Florida and Bahamas. We drive to NYC from Canada.

 

1. My child can cross into the US and has a valid visa for the US. Will the passport expiring at the end of March be an issue? I've been told passports need to be valid for 6 months pass the date of travel?

 

2. My child will not get off the boat in the Bahamas. Will the cruiseline require a visa for the bahamas anyway?

 

Odds are I'll need to renew the passport and get a visa for the Bahamas. Anything else I might need?

[cherylandtk]

You will need to seek the advice of the Haitian consul in every country that your ship will visit to get the current rules, but:

 

1. From the US standpoint, presuming your child has a B-2 visa, there is no problem with the Haitian passport expiring at the end of March as long as both the passport and visa are valid throughout your intended 'stay' in the US.

 

2. Getting off the ship (or not) has no bearing on whether you will or will not be allowed to board the ship. Your child must have all necessary documentation required by Bahamas (and any other port) for Haitian cruise visitors just to get on the ship. Don't rely on this next part alone, but it is my understanding that Canadian residents can just use their passport (of the country of citizenship) along with their Canadian Immigration Record Form 1000 to enter the Bahamas.

 

3. Proof of your right to travel internationally with your adoptive child may also be needed. I presume the adoption in Haiti has been completed, and am not aware of Canadian adoption processes, but if there is a co-guardian or government agency that 'oversees' a temporary guardianship of this child, then you most likely will need to carry written, perhaps notarized, permission from that agency in order to travel. If that has been completed, then you will have less difficulty, but should probably carry proof of the adoption since you have different nationalities at this time.

Edited October 11, 2010 by cherylandtk

[Sandysandy]

Thank you very much for answering - very helpful information. I guess it's a case of better safe than sorry and getting all the documents in order. I'll be checking with the Bahamas on visas for haitians (you're correct that Canadians don't need them). Good call on bringing the adoption paperwork as well.

[scottbee]

The Carnival PVP is correct. US citizens on closed loop cruises can use an original or certified copy of their birth certificate plus a government-issued photo ID such as a drivers license in lieu of a passport. Here's the information directly from DHS:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

 

The frustrating thing about this is pointing out that the requirement for a passport is because of the USA requiring one to return. For most counties in the Caribbean and/or Canada you need;

 

• Proof of Citizenship (such as a state issued birth certificate)
  
• Government Issued photo id (such as a driver's license)
  
• Correct paperwork to return to the United States
  

Given the USA now requires US citizens to be in possession of a passport to return to the United States; to satisfy #3 above in almost all situations (except closed loop cruses where you return to where you started) countries wont let you in with just #1 & #2 because you don't have the right paperwork to go home (see #3). Note that to enter Canada/Caribbean on a closed loop cruise you only need #1 and #2, because the US don't need #3 on the return.

 

Canada/Mexico/etc/etc did not significantly change their requirements, it's the United States.