Any one with a fair answer?

[standby 06.30]

This is not a Carnival issue but I am taking it to a board whether hopefully there is more light than heat and individual biases for or against any cruise lines do not become a distraction.

 

If a flight to a cruise is cancelled on an air/transfers/cruise TOTAL PACKAGE put together by a cruise line and the cruiser chooses not to attempt to chase it down a couple of days later in a different country at a different port that is not an ordinary embarkation point, should the cruise line keep the refundable air fares and port taxes that they no longer have to pay or should they return that money to the offended cruisers? In lieu of that, what would one consider fair compensation?

 

I am not asking about the wisdom of going to the embarkation port a day earlier. I am not asking about the wisdom of having insurance. I am asking whether it is conscionable for a cruise line to profit from unfortunate circumstances that cause a cruiser not to be able to begin the cruise as purchased but at the same time allows the cruise line to become a beneficiary to that which it is not entitled.

 

Note: This situation is one involving an on-line travel agent who advised the cruiser to deal with the cruise line directly ..... an action that was not unexpected.

I would sue at the piont of contract, you have payed for services that if due to no fault of yours, the contact has been broken, the people who you booked this trip with I would hope do this for a living so they have a duty of responsibility to you, because they have expertise that you do not have, and they profit from this, if they had stated to you, that we have had problems, with the airline, and you may have to miss the first two days or we advise you to fly early, and you carry on with the booking, then you have no case, "small print" in contracts only matters in a small claims court, if the judge deems them to be fair, in the circumstances presented, regards

[RichardK]

I thought at the outset that I would get concurrance on the returned air fare and port and taxes charges. Looks like that didn't happen.

 

Why would you think that you'd be entitled to get your port charges back??

 

These are charges the SHIP incurs and not its passengers -- e.g., have you ever seen the "longshoremen" at a port-of-call dealing this the ship's lines. Their work, and rate of pay, is the same regardless of whether the ship is empty or completely full of pax. The same logic would apply for the work of harbor pilots, etc.

 

To give you back your port charges would mean that the cruise ship would eat that cost........why should they? Or should they have prorated it against the remaining pax onboard? I would think not!

 

Overall comment to your situation, is that you also had a responsibility to mitigate damages. You chose not to, by deciding not to catch up with the ship. No personal offense intended, but IMHO given the series of event as you described them, your refund, compensation, whatever, should be $0.

[rchauv]

To give you back your port charges would mean that the cruise ship would eat that cost........why should they? Or should they have prorated it against the remaining pax onboard? I would think not!

 

Overall comment to your situation, is that you also had a responsibility to mitigate damages. You chose not to, by deciding not to catch up with the ship. No personal offense intended, but IMHO given the series of event as you described them, your refund, compensation, whatever, should be $0.

 

That's an interesting comment and my read of your philosophy is that should you pay for a loaf ahead of time and then arrive at the store to collect and after enduring a two hour wait, you would accept half a loaf because it is better than none. I really doubt that you would just roll over and play dead like that, but it emboldens those who read this board and are in charge of the bottom line.

 

What if embarkation point had been the fifth day of the cruise instead of the third? My desire was have the ship experience and not an unplanned hotel experience. The fine print allows the cruise ship to do anything it wants with impunity.

 

It has been my understanding that most of the charges in that column are on a per person basis. If you supply the reference that these charges are per ship, you have negated my point.

 

I could also contort you comment about the ship having to eat port charges into an attitude which says the ship is entitled to make a profit regardless of how many people are on the ship and regardless of how much the service is reduced. I really hope that is a minority position.

 

In your response, you are also conceding the air fare refund to them.

 

Again, the accountants really love you.

[IKE]

I personally, would try for a full refund since it was not your fault.

[GottaLuvCruising]

I personally, would try for a full refund since it was not your fault.

 

But it WAS the OP's fault to pass on the opportunity to catch up with the ship....something guests have to do all the time. I'd bet my last dollar that there will be no refund because the OP is simply not entitled to anything. He asked for a "fair" answer, but then rejects them. The OP wanted people to agree with his assertions, not answer his question.

[greatam]

I am sorry you learned a hard lesson-Cruise Air packages DO NOT guarantee that you will embark the ship on Day 1. They are obligated to get you to the ship somehow, someway, but on the day of their choosing. Please go to the cruise air forum-you will find all sorts of horror stories AND ways to be a prepared traveler, so when things go awry, you KNOW how to help yourself.

 

Cruise lines try to make the air/sea packages appear as a seamless experience, with 24/7 help to solve problems. It is an illusion.

 

Sorry, legally you are not entitled to any compensation. You can ask and you may receive. You will have to escalate this complaint much higher than the general customer service level. And you may have waited tooo long to even escalate this complaint. Should have been done IMMEDIATELY upon returning home. Your TA should have been notified IMMEDIATELY, while you were at the airport.

 

IF you bought the Carnival travel insurance, you WOULD be entitled to a refund of any missed days of the cruise. You CHOSE not to join the cruise. You will have a very difficult time making a claim. You have no basis for a claim, due to your own actions.

 

As for standing in line for 2 hours at the airport, invalid complaint. If you had been prepared, you would have had alternative flights you MAY have been able to board. You would have had phone numbers on a list or programmed into your cell that could have been able to help you-airline, travel agent, cruise line, even your own corporate travel dept (if you work for a large corporation).

 

In today's airline environment, you MUST be VERY proactive and VERY informed.

 

From Carnival's cruise contract:

 

Carnival

Section 10, Ticket Contract section

Carnival, in arranging for the services called for by the physician or nurse, all on board concessions, all shore excursion/tour tickets, all pre and post cruise airline flights or other transportation off of the ship and its tenders, does so only as a convenience for the Guest and Guests are free to use or not use these services. Guest agrees that Carnival assumes no responsibility, does not guarantee performance and in no event shall be liable for any negligent or intentional acts or omissions, loss, damage, injury or delay to Guest and/or Guest’s baggage, property or effects in connection with said services. Guests use the services of all independent contractors at the Guest’s sole risk.

[greatam]

 

Acccordingly, I contacted that travel agent this afternoon and later yet, the travel agent gave back the ball and advised me to contact the cruise line and tell what happened to customer relations. However, they did make contact with the cruise line. (The agent was very sensitive to the two hour waiting period at the air line before getting any attention and advised me to mention that.) Given that contact with the agent, I could now preface any communication with the cruise line with their comment.

 

 

 

PLEASE don't use the two hour waiting time as a reason for compensation. Don't even mention it-it would be self defeating.

 

On canceled or delayed flights, the lines are very often 2+ hours to rebook. You need to be prepared to help yourself. The wait to rebook is an airline function and is totally out of control of the cruise line.

[greatam]

As I understand, the air line is authorized to make a refund on cancelled trips that are not rescheduled. In this case, I was not given a refund, but told to take it up with the cruise company.

 

Refunds only on fully refundable tickets, which are a MUCH higher fare class than cruise air tickets (which are booked in consolidator class-one of the very lowest fare classes)

 

 

The taxes and port charges on this cruise exceed $800, items that the cruise line no longer has to pay. Obviously, they can get the refund on the unused air plane ticket. Since I chose not to scramble, I am asking what would be fair compensation choosing not to do so or does it just become a profit center for the cruise and acknowledge they can play legal card all day long.

 

As a compounding footnote, I waited in line more than two hours before I was able to talk to an agent, as the schlock air line was terrribly undermanned for the situation. Had there been any speed on their part, there is a strong chance an alternate routing to the original port could have been found. (I was in line just in front of a man who had been cancelled two days in a row.)

 

The cruise line paid the airline for your ticket IMMEDIATELY after final payment, when you paid for your cruise and air. NO refunds from the airline. They held a seat for you-you chose not to fly.

 

Please see my other post. 2 hours is NOT a long time when things go badly at an airport. However, if YOU would have been prepared with alternative flights, you could have gone to the gate for that flight and probably gotten help MUCH quicker than standing in line.

 

It is pretty obvious that you are not a very frequent flier. Again, I repeat, in today's airline environment, you MUST help yourself. Just too many glitches in any airline system/schedule to expect instant help. We, the American people, have demanded these cheap, cheap, cheap fares. The airlines have complied with the cheap fares. But they have had to layoff lots of employees. Not a lot of help around airports anymore.

[carlmm]

Again, I repeat, in today's airline environment, you MUST help yourself.

 

Just replying to this one point I heavily object. Maybe that is what cruiselines and airlines want to do - deny all responsibility and tell the - well in this case not customer, but maybe the cash cow to see how she can handle a situation caused by the cruiseline or the airline.

People book packages for not having to deal with all arrangements and for having somebody who cares when problems arise.

Individuals never have all the knowledge and all the possibilites at hand the organization has.

[Lanky Lad]

If the flight was booked through the cruiseline and the airline cancelled it, then I would say you get a full refund and the cruiseline should claim against the airline for any losses.

[greatam]

Just replying to this one point I heavily object. Maybe that is what cruiselines and airlines want to do - deny all responsibility and tell the - well in this case not customer, but maybe the cash cow to see how she can handle a situation caused by the cruiseline or the airline.

People book packages for not having to deal with all arrangements and for having somebody who cares when problems arise.

Individuals never have all the knowledge and all the possibilites at hand the organization has.

 

Sorry, NOT IN THE US. Booking in Europe is completely different than booking in the US. There are rules (especially in the UK) covering pax in these situations. Imposition of such customer protections has not happened in the US nor would I expect it to anytime in the near future.

 

The OP WAS offered a way to get to the cruise. Chose not to. Didn't want the "hassle". Well, flying in the US on an airline is pretty much a hassle and if you are not prepared, you could end up in a disadvantageous position.

 

There are a LOT of individuals that have as much, if not more knowledge, than a lot of airline or cruise line employees. Spend a little time on Flyertalk and you will see what I mean. Check out some of the posts from airline employees-they are always learning something new from people who fly a lot, but are not employed by the airlines.

[RichardK]

He asked for a "fair" answer, but then rejects them. The OP wanted people to agree with his assertions, not answer his question.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no..................

 

More "positive" replies may have generated a cut & paste response to NCL --- e.g., "see what the rest of your loyal clientele think should happen."

 

Perhaps, we shall not hear for the OP again – he has, after a number of posts, seemed to have disappeared???

 

"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do

is stop diggin'." [Will Rogers]

[greatam]

Your point is well taken. Thank you for bringing some reason to these boards. I can't believe how many posters always say that if you receive half of what you have paid for that for some reason you should be overjoyed because some did not get to cruise at all or "a horrible cruise is better than being at work" or some cliché that does not in any way apply to the situation.

 

Read the cruise contract BEFORE you make final payment and make sure you have independent travel insurance.

 

No one likes that fact that some people miss part or all of their cruise due to airline/weather complications. Or miss ports of call.

 

But the cruise contract BINDS you to certain realities. And one of those realities is that the cruise line will TRY to get you to the cruise if you book cruise air, but they are under NO legal obligation to do so. That is what travel insurance is for.

 

In the OP's situation, he/she refused to take a portion of the cruise (which was offered) and file a claim for the missed days.

By law, you are REQUIRED to mitigate your circumstances or the insurance company can deny the claim or a part of it. And by not trying to catch up to the ship, mitigation went out the window.

[Karysa]

I cannot figure out if the flight was just canceled on the day the OP was suppose to fly or before that. No matter what happened vacations are suppose to be relaxing and this situation would have been anything but that to me. Sorry for your ordeal.

Karysa

[hammybee]

I am sorry you learned a hard lesson-Cruise Air packages DO NOT guarantee that you will embark the ship on Day 1. They are obligated to get you to the ship somehow, someway, but on the day of their choosing. Please go to the cruise air forum-you will find all sorts of horror stories AND ways to be a prepared traveler, so when things go awry, you KNOW how to help yourself.

 

Cruise lines try to make the air/sea packages appear as a seamless experience, with 24/7 help to solve problems. It is an illusion.

 

Excellent posting, greatam. I think travel agencies also add to the illusion that booking air and transfers is going to provide a seamless experience. Who planted the seed that by doing so, one could by-pass customs? This is simply false information.

 

Cruise lines are not responsible for delays in transportation to the ship when air is purchased through the cruise line. They have enough muscle to compel the airline to get you to the next port, if you miss the ship, provided that the delay was not weather related. Anything beyond this, is a gift. Those passengers unwilling to self insure the risk of delays, should buy trip insurance.

 

The ship pays port charges and taxes based upon the number of passengers onboard and the OP is entitled to a refund and the OP's TA is the party to obtain it. ( I cancelled a Carnival cruise the day before sailing and the taxes and port charges were credited back to me without asking and a major online booking engine was the one who did this).

 

I don't know if airline ticketing is refundable or not as I have not seen the documents.

 

When a flight is cancelled, it is always mayhem at the airport. Passengers flying on the day of the cruise should indeed have a back-up plan else they risk waiting for hours in lines, when the unexpected occurs.

 

I am disturbed that the travel agent is referring the OP to work it out with the cruise line. That travel agency/agent received a commission and now they want to walk away. Chances are the cruise line will tell the OP to have their agent call. The travel agent is the passenger's agent, not the cruise line's and it's quite possible they are sitting on the OP's port charges and taxes.

[buddyjo143]

I think all cruise lines have a stable of lawyers and a budget that would allow them to do anything they wanted.

 

My question was not a legal one, but one of conscience.

 

Unfortunately you are dealing with a corporation governed by contracts that they draw up to their advantage. You are not dealing with people who have a conscience. :(

[stellalimelight]

At the risk of being repetitive, I am asking should the cruise line keep that to which it is not entitled?

 

I am not asking what it can get away with (I've seen too many horror stories), I am asking what is right.

 

Yes. Because they are entitled to it. Under the passenger contract and the refund guidelines, they are entitled to keep their cruise money, transfers,etc. The non refundable airfares that you pay to Princess are in turn sent to the airline, which they are entitle to keep depending on the circumstances for the flight cancellation. You are entitled to your port charges and taxes back.

 

But it still won't hurt to ask for your money back, but they are definitely entitled to it.

 

Shelley