Any one with a fair answer?

[rchauv]

This is not a Carnival issue but I am taking it to a board whether hopefully there is more light than heat and individual biases for or against any cruise lines do not become a distraction.

 

If a flight to a cruise is cancelled on an air/transfers/cruise TOTAL PACKAGE put together by a cruise line and the cruiser chooses not to attempt to chase it down a couple of days later in a different country at a different port that is not an ordinary embarkation point, should the cruise line keep the refundable air fares and port taxes that they no longer have to pay or should they return that money to the offended cruisers? In lieu of that, what would one consider fair compensation?

 

I am not asking about the wisdom of going to the embarkation port a day earlier. I am not asking about the wisdom of having insurance. I am asking whether it is conscionable for a cruise line to profit from unfortunate circumstances that cause a cruiser not to be able to begin the cruise as purchased but at the same time allows the cruise line to become a beneficiary to that which it is not entitled.

 

Note: This situation is one involving an on-line travel agent who advised the cruiser to deal with the cruise line directly ..... an action that was not unexpected.

[Steamboatin]

It becomes a case of contract law and the "fine" print in your travel documents I reckon.

 

One could speculate that they made a good faith offer to have you join the cruise ship at the next available port and that you on your own free will decided not to. Therefore you forfeit your rights.

 

Read your contract closely.

[sam1148]

No realisitc clue. But it's always a good idea to book the flight for the day before. It's too much pressure and hassel having to think about that at the last moment.

 

Also, trip insurance.

[GottaLuvCruising]

I think it was a big mistake to turn down an offer to catch up with the ship. I can't imagine that you'd be legally entitled to any compensation.

[rchauv]

I think all cruise lines have a stable of lawyers and a budget that would allow them to do anything they wanted.

 

My question was not a legal one, but one of conscience.

[Kurbanfan]

If you are saying this package deal was put together by the cruise line. In which the flight was cancelled and you were unable to board the ship until couple days later.

I would seek a total refund.....

[rchauv]

"If you are saying this package deal was put together by the cruise line. In which the flight was cancelled and you were unable to board the ship until couple days later.

I would seek a total refund....."

 

 

Sir, that is the situation.

[rchauv]

"No realisitc clue. But it's always a good idea to book the flight for the day before. It's too much pressure and hassel having to think about that at the last moment.

 

Also, trip insurance."

 

Please see paragraph 3.

[GottaLuvCruising]

I would seek a total refund.....

 

Good luck with that.

 

I understand the OPs frustration on some level. But no, I don't think it's an issue of ethics (or conscience). The OP should have read their passage contract and been more cooperative.

[Kurbanfan]

"If you are saying this package deal was put together by the cruise line. In which the flight was cancelled and you were unable to board the ship until couple days later.

I would seek a total refund....."

 

 

Sir, that is the situation.

 

Myself I would never book my air thru a cruise line. And I always fly in the day before. Plus I always get insurance. But it is what it is and if I were you I would fight for a refund.

 

BTW I'm not a sir;)

[Kurbanfan]

Good luck with that.

 

I understand the OPs frustration on some level. But no, I don't think it's an issue of ethics (or conscience). The OP should have read their passage contract and been more cooperative.

 

No harm in fighting. I have heard of people getting refunds for less then this......

[rchauv]

At the risk of being repetitive, I am asking should the cruise line keep that to which it is not entitled?

 

I am not asking what it can get away with (I've seen too many horror stories), I am asking what is right.

[spookwife]

so let me get this straight: a flight was canceled. since it was booked through the cruiseline directly, I am assuming they made arrangements for you to arrive to the ship at some future point, and you chose NOT to take them up on it?

 

then no, I don't beleive the cruisline is under any legal or moral obligation to refund any portion of your trip. they did exactly what they were supposed to do by arranging to get you to the s hip, and you did not take them up on the offer. you forfeit any rights you may have had.

[Kurbanfan]

At the risk of being repetitive, I am asking should the cruise line keep that to which it is not entitled?

 

 

Not sure I understand. Should they keep the money even though you didn't sail:confused: If that's the case they do it all the time. If you were to cancel at the last minute you don't get your money back. It's in the contract.

 

But this is a different situation. You didn't initially cancel. You cancelled because you were not given a package that you paid for.

If that's the case. No I don't think it's right. But hey I don't think alot of things are right:D

[sail7seas]

I know this isn't the answer you are seeking, but your failure to fly to the next port to meet the ship makes it okay for Carnival to not return your fare. It would be excellent PR if you were to come to these boards and report they are refunding your money or giving you a future cruise but I do not think they have to.

 

Why did you not wish to meet the ship at the first port?

 

Through all the years Carnival has been selling cruises, I cannot imagine how many people have missed embarkation. Most met the ship later but I'm sure there are thousands that never boarded.......like you.

[rchauv]

As I understand, the air line is authorized to make a refund on cancelled trips that are not rescheduled. In this case, I was not given a refund, but told to take it up with the cruise company.

 

What I thought I paid for was a complete care-free package where I would give the airline my rather cumbersome suitcases and see them next in the cabin aboard ship. I would be bypass regular customs and be wisked away to an awaiting bus and sent be welcomed there with a bottle of champagne. What was offered was a two day scramble without any advice on where to stay or even if they would even pay for those expenses of not being on the cruise ship.

 

The taxes and port charges on this cruise exceed $800, items that the cruise line no longer has to pay. Obviously, they can get the refund on the unused air plane ticket. Since I chose not to scramble, I am asking what would be fair compensation choosing not to do so or does it just become a profit center for the cruise and acknowledge they can play legal card all day long.

 

As a compounding footnote, I waited in line more than two hours before I was able to talk to an agent, as the schlock air line was terrribly undermanned for the situation. Had there been any speed on their part, there is a strong chance an alternate routing to the original port could have been found. (I was in line just in front of a man who had been cancelled two days in a row.)

[rchauv]

For Alaska sailings: because of airline schedules and/or limited availability, an overnight stay in Seattle, Vancouver or Anchorage may be required. The cost of the overnight hotel package is the responsibility of the guest. Any additional costs incurred (including food, lodging and transfers) are the sole responsibility of the guest.

 

Don't know whether this is operative or not, but at least, by cancelling, I did not incur them and I won't have to wade through the legal system to trying to get paid.

I sense the lawyers have some "gotchas" going for them that are not even in writing.

[ozzy1210]

Not sure I understand. Should they keep the money even though you didn't sail:confused: If that's the case they do it all the time. If you were to cancel at the last minute you don't get your money back. It's in the contract.

 

But this is a different situation. You didn't initially cancel. You cancelled because you were not given a package that you paid for.

If that's the case. No I don't think it's right. But hey I don't think alot of things are right:D

 

You both need to read your cruise documents and contracts a bit more thoroughly next time.

[cruisead]

This is a business, and as everyone knows, businesses don't operate on conscience, they operate on profit and loss. Your first mistake was not to allow the airline to get you to the next port of call. Once on board, it would have been possible to take up the lost time with the purser or anyone else of authority. As to why cruise lines book the flights they do, it's because they get the cheapest group rates that way, and they can pass those savings on to their passengers, hopefully. Another thing, it's not that easy getting to Vancouver. Have you ever tried to find your own flights from TX to Vancouver? There ain't that many to chose from. I would also like to know from the OP, did he take a look at the flights, and knowing how horrible flights are performing this summer, take it into his own hands and request a change of flights?

 

IMHO, this situation is another reason why I always avoid booking anything using internet companies. There's no such thing as customer service once they get your money. Conscience or not, you're not going to see any kind of reimbursement due to the fact that you chose not to join the cruise in progress. If you had, I daresay you probably would have a legal leg to stand on with respect to getting a partial refund, or at least an on board credit.

[cruiseco]

" Any one with a fair answer?"

 

# What's your definition of a "fair" answer?

 

With your "profit center" comments you're accusing the cruise line of deliberately making air arrangements that they hope will leave you stranded and force you to cancel the trip rather than catch up. You're accusing the cruise line of specifically choosing air carriers with poor performance in getting guests to the ship -- again hoping for cancellations to feed the "profit center." You even accused a cruise line employee of deliberately misleading you to make a larger "bonus" from your misfortune.

 

All of ythis without even making a preliminary contact with the cruise line to ask for compensation. I guess that's too much of a bother also.

 

All of this without even bothering to contact the cruise line to discuss the situation.

 

If you can't be bothered to catch up with the ship a day late, if you can't be bothered to make a good faith attempt to resolve the situation with the cruise line before making unfounded accusations in a public forum, why should anyone else be bothered to really care about giving you a "fair" answer?

[reallyitsmema]

I am sorry you missed your ship but they did try to get you there. You refused the offer to get you to the next port. You really need to read all your cruise documents closely and see what it says about missing the ship. Have you contacted the online TA that is also involved in this? If they aren't willing to work with you then I would contact Celebrity directly. Write a concise, professional letter. Don't get emotion, just state the facts, mention the name of the less than helpful rep at Celebrity and then give them time to respond. Stay away from name calling or you aren't going to get anywhere with them. I don't feel you will receive a full refund of your port charges or your cruise costs. Hopefully they will offer some kind of settlement that you can live with.

[Kurbanfan]

You both need to read your cruise documents and contracts a bit more thoroughly next time.

 

Thanks but I know what my contract says. He was asking whether he thought it was right or not.

I have heard of similar situations where despite what the contract says the cruise lines have made refunds. Actually it happened to a family member of mine. So I guess they do have some type of sincerity even if it is a business.

[eh2zed]

Even though you didn't try to catch up, I think if you are persistent and reasonable in tone you might get some consideration.

A few other thoughts. This is another reason why online services can be problematic.

Also, one of the reasons the Cruise line is justified in keeping the port charges etc. is that they are sailing with an empty cabin... no ShoreX revenue, no Shops on Board revenue, no beverage revenue, no photography revenue, no spa revenue, etc. This is how they look at it. :) :) :D :D

[rchauv]

" Any one with a fair answer?"

 

# What's your definition of a "fair" answer?

 

With your "profit center" comments you're accusing the cruise line of deliberately making air arrangements that they hope will leave you stranded and force you to cancel the trip rather than catch up. You're accusing the cruise line of specifically choosing air carriers with poor performance in getting guests to the ship -- again hoping for cancellations to feed the "profit center." You even accused a cruise line employee of deliberately misleading you to make a larger "bonus" from your misfortune.

 

All of ythis without even making a preliminary contact with the cruise line to ask for compensation. I guess that's too much of a bother also.

 

All of this without even bothering to contact the cruise line to discuss the situation.

 

If you can't be bothered to catch up with the ship a day late, if you can't be bothered to make a good faith attempt to resolve the situation with the cruise line before making unfounded accusations in a public forum, why should anyone else be bothered to really care about giving you a "fair" answer?

 

In spite of the fact that your criticism is as harsh as it is, I appreciate your comments. I was soliciting comments from all sides on this board before contacting the responsible parties in the home office. Your suggestion would have been to contact those parties first. Additionally, in my frustration, I also reverted to sarcasm and sarcasm is not appropriate for this situation.

 

It has been my experience that the cruise lines tell any one who has made arrangements through a travel agent to contact the travel agent and not them in the event of a situation.

 

Acccordingly, I contacted that travel agent this afternoon and later yet, the travel agent gave back the ball and advised me to contact the cruise line and tell what happened to customer relations. However, they did make contact with the cruise line. (The agent was very sensitive to the two hour waiting period at the air line before getting any attention and advised me to mention that.) Given that contact with the agent, I could now preface any communication with the cruise line with their comment.

 

While you may consider it a nit, the loss of cruise time was not one day, but two, and given the prevailing sentiment, it would appear the majority of this board would side that the lodging, transfers meals, etc. would be for my account.

 

In this most recent communication, the travel agent also said that the cruise line would reimburse me for the days missed on the itinerary. That VERY important information was not stated by the cruise line representative on the phone while I was at the airport and I did not find it in the cruise document. It's unknown to me whether that's SOP or a reaction to my decision to contact the travel agent. Seems like if it was SOP, she would have said that before anything else. Too, it kind of contradicts your double accusation that I had no communication with cruise line, albeit not home office, before coming here to the board.

 

Moreover, belated reading of this document also says,

"Carrier may for any reason, at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing of port of call or substitute another vessel or port of call and shall not be liable for any loss whatsoever to Passenger by reason of such cancellation."

The boards are full of people dealing with these situations and it seems there are as many different resolutions as there are situations. I take that to mean that they will do as they please and if there is no critical mass, nothing will happen.

 

I thought at the outset that I would get concurrance on the returned air fare and port and taxes charges. Looks like that didn't happen.

[rchauv]

.... one of the reasons the Cruise line is justified in keeping the port charges etc. is that they are sailing with an empty cabin... no ShoreX revenue, no Shops on Board revenue, no beverage revenue, no photography revenue, no spa revenue, etc. This is how they look at it. :) :) :D :D

 

You left out casino, bingo and art auctions.

 

However, among all that mix, I tend to go with independent tour operators, buy a T shirt and a picture or two and let the other folks take care of the rest.

 

Too, they would have had whatever revenue for but about two thirds of the cruise.:rolleyes: