It this new: An increase in Auto-tips

[ArizonaRalphie]

In some "industries" tipping is a way of life. More years ago than I would like to remember, I was a "soda jerk" for a Walgreen's. I actually had to join a union for the summer and was told that my base salary was the same as a waiter at "Ernie's" one of the upper scale eateries in the area, but the difference was in the tips and the waiters at these exclusive restaurants actually "owned" their station, which could be sold to the next guy. Whether this was true or not, I don't know but it made sense to me at the time.

[peterv]

So now some of the cruise lines want to give their tipped staff a 5% net pay increase. Anyone find that unfair?

 

I hate to say it, (well not really :rolleyes:) but Princess is not giving anyone a pay rise, the passengers are.

 

It appears that Princess has decided that the amount we are already asked to contribute to their payroll costs through AWS (automatic wage subsisdy) is simply not enough, perhaps they might have taken the hit themselves and kicked their meagre salaries up, kind of like a reward for their employees, but then no, why do that when most passengers are still exiting the ship with available credit and cash in their pockets.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[peterv]

This is exactly what it is. It's nothing to do with true tipping, except that that's what it's called on board the ship. The shipboard tipping system is simply the way that we passengers pay the crew's wages, instead of doing it through the fare that we pay.

 

Most tipping debates here have a sizeable faction of people who simply don't, or won't, understand this.

 

I understand it perfectly, just do not follow blindly like most sheeple. Pay them a true wage and base your fares on that. Since it is an optional charge I intend to take that option.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Stevesan]

Those who oppose the autotip need to stay away from Europe where it's included in nearly every restaurant, brasserie, bistro, cafe, etc.

 

Service Comprise 15% seems to be a European anthem.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose built in tipping; it makes my traveling life simpler. I mention it only because so many Europeans and Brits (and I use that appelation fondly) raise holy H*ll about autotips on cruise lines. You'd think they have no tipping back home! Autotipping isn't unique to cruise ships. Nor is tip sharing among employees, either in the US or abroad. When was the last time any restaurant customer complained about that?

 

Relax and enjoy your vacation. Qvit the kvetching.:p

[Globaliser]

Those who oppose the autotip need to stay away from Europe where it's included in nearly every restaurant, brasserie, bistro, cafe, etc.

 

Service Comprise 15% seems to be a European anthem.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't oppose built in tipping; it makes my traveling life simpler. I mention it only because so many Europeans and Brits (and I use that appelation fondly) raise holy H*ll about autotips on cruise lines. You'd think they have no tipping back home!

Far from the point you make, the example that you give shows exactly why tipping and auto-tipping is far removed from the European model.

 

When a menu says "service compris 15%" or whatever, it means this: The menu says €15. You pay €15. End of story.

 

It's just like going into a department store: If the price of the item is €15, you pay €15.

 

The cruise equivalent would be: The cruise fare is €1500. You pay €1500. End of story.

 

In particular, none of this "You must also pay another $70 on top of that when you get there" rubbish - whether you do it discreetly by way of the auto-tip, or whether you have to engage in that vulgar practice of fishing around for cash.

 

That is the difference between the European practice on the one hand, and tipping or auto-tipping on the other.

 

But so long as the crew are basically paid from that $70, I personally will leave on the autotip, treating it as a part of the cruise fare paid late. The crew make a decent living on that money. Any real tips are for exceptional service, not the normal normal.

[Stevesan]

Far from the point you make, the example that you give shows exactly why tipping and auto-tipping is far removed from the European model.

 

When a menu says "service compris 15%" or whatever, it means this: The menu says €15. You pay €15. End of story.

 

It's just like going into a department store: If the price of the item is €15, you pay €15.

 

The cruise equivalent would be: The cruise fare is €1500. You pay €1500. End of story.

 

In particular, none of this "You must also pay another $70 on top of that when you get there" rubbish - whether you do it discreetly by way of the auto-tip, or whether you have to engage in that vulgar practice of fishing around for cash.

 

That is the difference between the European practice on the one hand, and tipping or auto-tipping on the other.

 

But so long as the crew are basically paid from that $70, I personally will leave on the autotip, treating it as a part of the cruise fare paid late. The crew make a decent living on that money. Any real tips are for exceptional service, not the normal normal.

 

 

In restaurants. taxis, etc at home I haven't yet had a problem multiplying the total tab by 1.15. On a good day I can even subtract the tax beforehand. There's always pocket calculators for the mathematically challenged.:p

[Globaliser]

In restaurants. taxis, etc at home I haven't yet had a problem multiplying the total tab by 1.15.

You know what? That's the difference between "tip on top" and an all-inclusive price. Get it now?

 

In Europe, it's an all-inclusive price. No tipping. No auto-tipping. Just pay the bill.

[funship freddy]

When I first began cruising...there were no "auto tips" just guidelines and envelopes....then alas came auto tips. It seemed to work for years just fine before auto tips and I don't recall lines of crew jumping overboard. Is it possible the cruise lines realized they could take control of the $$$ and (maybe) take a modest % for themselves ?

 

 

[spongerob]

In Europe, it's an all-inclusive price. No tipping. No auto-tipping. Just pay the bill.

That's all it is. A different path to the same destination, so to speak. As long as everyone does things the same way, the system works. Is it better? I suspect that there are some trade-offs versus what is done here.

 

And this, in essence, is the problem for Princess and the other mass-market lines. They all use the same system w.r.t. crew compensation. If Princess were to suddenly increase their fares across the board and pay crewmembers the equivalent of what they earn today through the service charges, they would likely lose market share because their pricing would be out of line.

 

I also believe that this would be a short-term loss (maybe a year) because the MS that would abandon Princess would be that 20% who don't contribute at all to crew compensation. After a time, service levels and customer satisfaction would rise because Princess would be able to get the cream of the crop from competitors to work on Princess vessels through better wage structures.

 

Will it happen? I doubt it. But if it did, I think it could make Princess a premium line or at least a leader amongst its peers.

[Toto2Kansas]

When I first began cruising...there were no "auto tips" just guidelines and envelopes....then alas came auto tips. It seemed to work for years just fine before auto tips and I don't recall lines of crew jumping overboard. Is it possible the cruise lines realized they could take control of the $$$ and (maybe) take a modest % for themselves ?

 

 

 

My personal view! Too many saw the 'guidelines' for tipping as a way to save money and didn't tip at all. We now read on message boards some admitting they removed the auto tips, can you only imagine how many just never tipped at all, or tipped a fraction of what was suggested, even before they had to go through this process to remove the charge from their account? As the years went on, I feel this got worse. With more passengers from other countries climbing onboard cruise ships, some from countries, that tipping is not a normal practice, they had to do something.

At least with the auto tip in place, those that want it removed have to embarass themselves by going down and through a process to have them removed, where before, they could just hand out empty envelopes (which I have seen passengers do in the past and it outraged both of us).

[mek]

quote=Globaliser

 

In Europe, it's an all-inclusive price. No tipping. No auto-tipping. Just pay the bill.

 

Sorry, but that isn't accurate. Tipping is a common practice in quite a few European countries and frankly much more confusing than in this country. Some such as England add a service charge, but others do not. Even so, there are places where people tip on top of the service charge. Earlier this month, USA Today had a great article on tipping practices around the world.

[California Native]

Bonjour!

Though I love to cruise, I have travelled throughout Europe extensively without using a cruise ship.

Times are changing when it comes to tipping depending on the country you are visiting.

So make sure you read your menu and reciept carefully to determine what is expected.

2 months ago after my Baltic cruise I spent a chunk of time in Lithuanina and Latvia,

all restaurant bills came with a 15% suggested tip PRINTED ON THE RECIEPT there was no compris.

The service was phenomenal, food scrumptious so we gave 20%. In fact it was a joy to tip in these circumstances.

The waitstaff could've been the poster children for why to tip.

The year before was 3 weeks in Italy and throughout the country was a hit and miss whether it was compris or we added it.

yet in Greece...they tacked on additional charges for water, bread and are you ready for this SILVERWARE at a restaurant in Corfu.

just know that COMPRIS is no longer a standard in Europe.

[fti]

Your math is incorrect. The Captain, Officers and entertainers are not given tips nor are they part of the tipping pool. The same for the maintenance staff and the engine room/mechanical staff. The entertainers are actually paid by a Rep firm, not by Princess, as they are contracted by a 3rd party. Those participating in the tipping pool include the cabin stewards, their helpers and the dining staff (including the Maitre D and table Captains), including the Anytime and the buffet dining (not all buffet dining staff also work in the dining room). This is not their entire pay: they're paid a base plus tips. Also, they do not agree on a fixed amount for their tips in their contract. Not sure where you got that from.

 

Many on board staff are not included in the auto tip, i.e. the per-person cut of the auto tip is even much larger than was suggested!

[Globaliser]

That's all it is. A different path to the same destination, so to speak.

Sorry, but that isn't accurate. Tipping is a common practice in quite a few European countries ...

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I was responding to Stevesan's suggestion that when you see "service compris" in Europe, that is the same as auto-tipping. It isn't. As spongerob says, it's a different route from auto-tipping, although achieving the same end. Stevesan doesn't appear to understand the difference between paying only the price stated up-front ("service compris"), and paying the price and then adding more by way of a tip, whether automatically calculated for you or not.

[mek]

quote=GlobaliserSorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I was responding to Stevesan's suggestion that when you see "service compris" in Europe, that is the same as auto-tipping. It isn't. As spongerob says, it's a different route from auto-tipping, although achieving the same end. Stevesan doesn't appear to understand the difference between paying only the price stated up-front ("service compris"), and paying the price and then adding more by way of a tip, whether automatically calculated for you or not.

OK, I understand what you were saying. It just seems to me that those who have such a problem with the whole concept of tipping like to make it sound as if the US is behind the rest of the world and we are the only country who still tips - which is definately not the case.

[ccrain]

US minimum wage for "tipped" employees is less than the overall minimum wage.

 

Payroll taxes (Fed & State Taxes, FICA, Medicare) are assesed of "tipped" employees based on a calcuational method of reporting gross receipts from the establishment. When this program first started, a server was estimated to receive a minimum of 8% of tips and their taxes were based on this amount. It has now become far more complex.

 

It is not uincommon for US "tipped" employees to receive no wages in their paychecks, only receipts for taxes paid and a bill for more taxes because the taxes on their calculated tips exceeded their minimum wage income.

 

So in essence, these people "live" off of their tips.

 

And one other important note, every single person in this industry I have ever talked to and worked with under-reports their tips.

 

As far as this increase in automatic "tips" - not suprising. I'm sure the tips are an important consideration of employees when deciding where to work in the cruise line industry. Cruise lines with higher automatic tips will probably tend to attract more interest than those with lower voluntary tips.

 

Does anyone know what the crew's tax situation is on a foreign flagged vessel? I know the US flagged NCL ships personnel are subject to US taxes and US labor laws, but I don't know about other "flags of convenience".

[m steve]

I have been several places where it is not the custom to tip. I have had friends refuse to leave a tip in a restaurant when traveling because they never did it at home. I personally like calling it a service fee as I find at some resorts to help out the low salary of housekeepers or servers. It might be better to add it to the cruise cost up front the same as port fees and taxes. $3.50 a day is not a big deal.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Correct me if you think I'm wrong. It's not the additional money but the principal. Shouldn't you pay the amount that it states in your cruise book? It's not anyone's fault if they quote you the wrong amount. It the price did go up, shouldn't you still pay what your book states? I look at it as the same as when you go to a department store. If the sales tag says one price but the register doesn't recognize that and charges you a higher price, you usually pay what the sales tag had (not the register price).

 

If they lowered the tips to $9 a day and your answer book states $10.00 a day would you insist on paying the $10.00 per day?

 

Bill

[m steve]

I wonder how they handle the Kiwis who never tip. Any experience?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I wonder how they handle the Kiwis who never tip. Any experience?

 

They charge them more than U.S. customers. Hopefully some of that goes to offset the no tipping.:confused:

 

Bill

[peterv]

Does anyone know what the crew's tax situation is on a foreign flagged vessel? I know the US flagged NCL ships personnel are subject to US taxes and US labor laws, but I don't know about other "flags of convenience".

 

Since they are not US citizens and do not earn their money in the US they pay no US income taxes. Obviously if they are US citizens then they do pay taxes as the US demands that all citizens report, and pay taxes on, world wide income.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[BruceMuzz]

peterv,

Not quite correct. US Citizens who have a primary residence ouside the USA more than 335 days per year have no tax liability for the first US$82,000 of their annual income. But they are still required to file a US tax return.

[ccrain]

Since they are not US citizens and do not earn their money in the US they pay no US income taxes. Obviously if they are US citizens then they do pay taxes as the US demands that all citizens report, and pay taxes on, world wide income.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

I was curious if anyone was aware of what income taxes they did pay, if any, to their native country or the ship's country of registry.

[Cruisin from VA]

Some would argue that providing additional tips, either through auto-tipping or cash-in-envelope, provides more motivation for excellent service. By still allowing the option for auto-tipping, you are providing another incentive for employees to work harder and thus (hopefully) earn more money for their effort.

[janc107]

I just received my answer book and it says $10.