HAL Cruise Insurance Rip-Off

[diveoz]

I totally disagree with those that say insurance is not refundable.

 

Insurance is not refundable when there is a risk of loss!

 

But if one is still in the penalty-free cancellation period, there is no risk of loss to the insurance carrier (HAL) thus the insurance premium should be refundable too. Especially since HAL says the only time you can take out (their) insurance is within 7 days of deposit.

 

Once someone gets into the penalty periods, then the insurance should be non-refundable as it is actually covering a potential loss.

 

I fully understand that it is HAL's stated policy not to refund... buyer beware and all... but IMO this is a horrible policy and I agree that it promotes ill-will with prospective future customers to gain obscene unearned profits. The insurance has covered nothing during that period.

[NancyIL]

I have always purchased travel insurance through http://www.insuremytrip.com. The policies I have gotten (usually Travelex) have a 10-day "free look" period, during which you can cancel and get a refund. I have also cancelled cruises twice and transferred the insurance to a future trip.

[RuthC]

How can you consider anything a "rip off" when you agree to the terms before you put your money down? :confused:

[hammybee]

If someone needs the ability to cancel for any reason, up to 24 hours before a sail date in addition to insuring the common risks of delays, evacuation and cancellation due to a covered medical situation, HAL's policy is the one and only that will permit this. It must be purchased at the time of initial booking and is non-refundable. This is not a secret.

 

Given the OP's cruise is way out there, she made assumptions and probably booked on an impulse, without taking the time to do her own due dilligence.

 

It appears her travel agent did not inform her that the policy was non-refundable but could be transferred to another cruise, at the time of booking.

 

It also appears that this same travel agent did not inform the OP of the ability to transfer the insurance to another HAL booking, when the OP cancelled.

 

It's a darn shame that conumers cannot rely on travel agents to know and communicate the conditions associated with the purchase of a cruise and related insurance. It's this kind of thing that gives the entire agency business a black eye and it's rampant negligence as far as I am concerned. The due dilligence, knowledge and communication are the value -added functions of agency.

 

There are, of course, exceptions and some darn good travel agents who error on the side of being anal. Increasingly, however, so many are booking clerks and the saddest part is both tend to be compensated the same.

 

Consumers tend to evaluate their agent's effectiveness on how much the cruise cost instead of how well the agent performs, especially when there is a problem. The business model follows what consumers value.

 

In any event, the OP can either eat the cost and forever blame/badmouth HAL for her own assumptions and agent negligence or book another HAL cruise and hold the travel agent responsible for getting the insurance transferred to the new booking, after the fact.

[Opinions]

How can you consider anything a "rip off" when you agree to the terms before you put your money down? :confused:

 

I find many things in cruise contracts and travel insurance a "rip off"...However if one wants to cruise you have to accept the contract...And for those of us that must have travel insurance we must accept the terms, however unreasonable...Because we agree to the terms doesn't mean we forever are forbidden to express a opinion on these products.

[jhannah]

While I again say a "trial period" would be nice, like some insurance policies offer, it seems the key to HAL's insurance is as Hammybee points out. You can cancel for any reason. And the real clincher is that you get money back ... not just a credit toward another cruise. Lots of people have to cancel due to a health condition that makes future cruising highly unlikely. They need cash back ... not a deposit for another sailing. So HAL offers that when others don't. And they, therefore, are at higher risk of financial loss than the credit route. That makes it different, and that's probably why the buyer has to assume more of the risk.

[hammybee]

While I again say a "trial period" would be nice, like some insurance policies offer, it seems the key to HAL's insurance is as Hammybee points out. You can cancel for any reason. And the real clincher is that you get money back ... not just a credit toward another cruise. Lots of people have to cancel due to a health condition that makes future cruising highly unlikely. They need cash back ... not a deposit for another sailing. So HAL offers that when others don't. And they, therefore, are at higher risk of financial loss than the credit route. That makes it different, and that's probably why the buyer has to assume more of the risk.

 

As Jade said, when traveling with older teens and or young adults, they may drop out, just because....been there/done that. Also many professions are not condusive to forward planning and people are willing to pay the premium and accept the condition for the ability to cancel for any reason on short notice at any time.

 

It's a tremendous benefit for those who need a lot of protection against the unkown, not related to covered health issues. Like Jade, I cannot say enough good about the policy for those who need this.

[noblepa]

Will be going on a 14 day Summit from San Diego to Hawaii. After reading this thread, does anyone know what would be done if a passenger has a heart attack on board, requires hospitalization asap, but is already 2 or 3 days from any port??? We always take thrid party insurance and wondered if they pay to have a helicopter transport you to a hospital from way out at sea. Any knowledgeable feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

What you're referring to is called Medical Evacuation. Some policies cover it, some don't. Read the fine print of your policy. HAL's premium policy does cover it. However, there are limits to how far a helicopter can fly. If you're 150 miles from port, it can probably be done. If you're 1,500 miles, probably not. Also, helicopters can't fly in extreme weather.

 

As far as refunding premiums is concerned, I fully realize that HAL and most other insurance companies don't refund premiums when a passenger cancels a cruise. That said, I agree with those who think that, if the cancellation is made before final payment is due, this is unfair, although not illegal. After all, there is no insurable risk until final payment is made. If I book a sailing for next July today, final payment is not due until April or May. If I cancel tomorrow, the insurer has not spent any money.

 

So, to say that "I got what I paid for" is disingenuous. I got nothing meaningful in the one or two days the insurance was "in force", since there was no risk of loss.

 

I'm not arguing that HAL is not within their legal rights and within the letter of the contract. I am merely saying that it seems unfair to me to charge for risk coverage, when there is no risk.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that one could argue that this constitutes a unilateral contract: I am obligated to pay, but HAL (or other insurer) has no obligation at all (until final payment date). Unilateral contracts (except for charitable pledges) are illegal in every jurisdiction in the US.

 

Of course, if I must cancel AFTER the final payment date, that is entirely different. Of course, the premium is and should be non-refundable. I get my cruise fare (and possibly my air fare) back, but not my insurance premium.

 

But then, I could be wrong... :)

[cruiseco]

I totally disagree with those that say insurance is not refundable.

 

Insurance is not refundable when there is a risk of loss!

 

But if one is still in the penalty-free cancellation period, there is no risk of loss to the insurance carrier .

 

Re: insurance refunds when using third-party insurance.

 

When purchasing a third party insurance plan (not HAL's) it becomes non-refundable almost immediately (usually after a 10-day grace period) even if you are not in the cruise line's penalty period. Why?

 

Almost all third-party insurers protect against financial default of the cruise line. So, even if all you've done is put down a few hundred dollars as a deposit that money would be lost in a default. So the insurer is assuming some risk immediately even though there's no cancellation penalties yet in effect. The insurers like to be paid the moment they assume a risk and consider the premium to be fully earned at that point.

 

That's the trade-off, if you don't want this default coverage you can certainly wait to purchase a policy until the cancellation penalties kick in.

 

Pre-existing conditions are generally not covered by insurance. If you buy a used car that has a couple of dents and insure it the insurer will take care of any future dents but those that existed at the time you bought the car are off the table.

 

Travel insurance works the same way. They exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. But some will waive that exclusion if you meet certain criteria -- but the policy in a certain time frame, etc.

 

So, again, there's a trade-off. Buy a non-refundable policy now even though you're not in the cruise line's cancellation penalty period or wait until the penalties kick in.

 

By the way, HAL's standard CPP plan is NOT insurance. So comparing it to any other policies (whether travel policies, homeowner's, car, etc) and how they handle cancellation is meaningless. Because it's NOT insurance they're not bound by any regulatory oversight nor do they need to conform with any normal insurance business practices.

 

Again, it's amatter of trade-offs:

 

A) In your favor: HAL will let you cancel for any reason with a full cash refund.

 

B) Not in your favor: You must buy the policy right away and it's not refundable.

 

So, if you don't need A) you'd be foolish to accept B).

[hammybee]

 

 

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that one could argue that this constitutes a unilateral contract: I am obligated to pay, but HAL (or other insurer) has no obligation at all (until final payment date). Unilateral contracts (except for charitable pledges) are illegal in every jurisdiction in the US.

 

Of course, if I must cancel AFTER the final payment date, that is entirely different. Of course, the premium is and should be non-refundable. I get my cruise fare (and possibly my air fare) back, but not my insurance premium.

 

But then, I could be wrong... :)

 

Have not seen you around in awhile. Welcome home.:) I am not a lawyer but when has this stopped anyone.....

 

A unilateral contract is that only one party, is bound to do anything. If I offer a reward to the person that finds and returns my lost dog, no one is obligated to find/return my dog. If however, someone does find/return my dog, them I am obligated to pay a reward.

 

I am thinking that this whole deal is bilateral, the OP, in this case paid an upfront non-refundable premium for protection against defined future risks. In exchange for this premium, HAL provides the coverage.

 

I am not aware that unilateral contracts are illegal in the U.S. I do however, think they may be more challenging to enforce.

[MercedMike]

I'm not arguing that HAL is not within their legal rights and within the letter of the contract. I am merely saying that it seems unfair to me to charge for risk coverage, when there is no risk.

 

There is a very simple answer to this situation. Read the contract, and if you think it is unfair, then don't buy!!

 

But to buy a product, then AFTERWARDS read the contract and decide it is unfair and post things like "RIP OFF" ... doesn't seem right to me.

[kdowneymd]

I always purchase trip insurance when I book a cruise not only because of schedules, but also with elderly parents and four children, I firmly believe in the value of the insurance, because things do happen. At this point I, thankfully do not have a pre-existing condition that I am concerned would not be covered, if I did not book right away but have always purchased the insurance at the initial time of booking as just part of how I arrange everything. I believe I tried to make it clear that in the end only I can take responsibility for not knowing it was non-refundable. However, I will maintain my position that when the trip is cancelled within a short time and I am NOT making a claim in order to have my deposit refunded, my deposit was completely refunded without penalty because I am so far out from the deposit due date, I believe that HAL's position is a rip-off to not refund a fee that was not anywhere close to being used. I believe it is an unreasonable policy given the set of circumstances in this case. I would have no difficulty with a non-refundable premium once I am in the period of time where I would need to file a claim or close to it. Yes the travel agent absolutely should have mentioned options that could include transferrence, and I must pursue that with AMEX but still it is the policy of HAL that causes the initial problem. Given that I have not had this problem with my other cancellations, that were similarly made well before a claim had to be filed, I consider it an unfair policy to a consumer. The posting was made to make others aware of what happens since the fine print was not available until after the deposit was made. I would hope HAL would amend its policy but doubt they will because it must be a good source of revenue.

[hammybee]

I am sorry you continue to feel that the HAL policy is the root cause instead of failure to research the policy before booking and assuming all policies are alike and lack of travel agency disclosure.

 

I sincerely hope that you get some satisfaction from your travel agent, who could have made a difference. Best of luck to you.

[WeLoveCruising]

The HAL policies are probably the best in the business in that they allow the policy holder to cancel their cruise up to 24 hours before sailing for any reason. They also cover pre-existing conditions, although given the OP's cruise is way out there, pre-existing coverage could have been obtained from a variety of non-cruise line sources at a later date.

.

 

I agree with Hammy. What HAL offers is Cancellation Protection Policy- which is a little different than insurance. The CPP allows you to cancel for any reason (no proof, documentation, doctor's note, nothing needed) up to 24 hours before the cruise. However, the CPP needs to be purchased at the time of deposit. There are 3rd party insurance plans that you could purchase later...it's all a matter of research and understanding what you're purchasing and making the best decision for you.

 

I'm sorry the OP is out the money, but it seems to be a lack of understanding or explanation from the TA.

[jtl513]

The posting was made to make others aware of what happens since the fine print was not available until after the deposit was made.

As Hammybee pointed out in post #24 this information is available on the HAL site, and your TA certainly should have explained it to you before you signed up for it.

I would hope HAL would amend its policy but doubt they will because it must be a good source of revenue.

I believe that HAL is justified in keeping the premium paid as a means of discouraging people from booking multiple concurrent cruises (on different lines of course) and deciding which ones to drop just before the final payment date. This would result in siginicant income loss to HAL, if a large number of cabins are dumped back onto the market 75 days before sailing, and they must be discounted heavily in order to sell them. Some other lines may not have to do this to protect themselves, because they do not have CANCEL FOR ANY REASON provision.

[Jade13]

 

I believe that X/RCL do not expect their policies to be funded until final payment date. I am not sure how those policies handle pre-existing conditions and they most defineitely do not allow a policy holder to cancel for any reason. .

 

Celebrity does not cover pre-existing conditions. There is a "wishy washy" clause about conditions and medication and if they are stable and there is no change 60 days prior to purchase of the insurance the condition would be covered. It's then up to the person to decide if/when they want to pay for the insurance and whether they want to pay for it before final payment. My daughter almost took a friend that had major surgery and I called Berkeley (anon) and was told if she had the surgery on x day I should wait 60 days to buy the insurance assuming no condition change, etc...(daughter is taking another girl). They do have Cancel for any Reason at 75% cruise credit back. It goes in the name of the person insured and has to used within 12 months (diff than the person paying getting their money back.)

[Jade13]

Some lines have 2 levels of "any reason" coverage. Princess's top coverage gives a 90% cruise credit. HAL's top coverage gives a 90% refund. Celebrity just has one level, and it gives a 75% cruise credit. RCCL and NCL have similar cruise credit policies. HAL is the only line that REQUIRES insurance purchase at the time of booking for their best coverage. I think this is justifiable as they are assuming more financial risk with their offer of a refund. My concern is that circumstances might prevent us from ever using a cruise credit. We are not die-hard cruisers who go every few months...or even every few years (this will be our 3rd cruise in 20 years!). Because the cruise line coverage is based on cost of the cruise it can be more affordable than private insurance for older cruisers. I still can't make up my mind, but if I make what turns out to be a bad decision I'll have no one to blame but myself!

 

HAL's insurance also gives back 95% in cash at 31 days to (maybe 45 days - I have to check). I didn't even know that until my stepdaughter just decided she was not going with us this summer.

 

If you happen to use them for air they give the 95% or 90% (30 day until 24 hours) in cash on the air! I can't even believe that. I tried to find out on a Celebrity cruise if I used Celebrity for air (which I am not) if you get 75% credit back on the air. I asked 3 diff reps and could not get a straight answer...

 

Additionally, if someone if older HA's policy is actually a good deal vs what a 90 year old would find - plus no pre-existing conditions.

[Jade13]

Hal's top coverage provides for 100% refund if you cancel, for any reason up to 24 hours before sailing. Of course the refund from any cruise line does not include the cost of insurance. In HAl's case, the top coverage runs 10% of the cost of the cruise and therefore the end result is 90%.

 

I think there is something funky with port charges and taxes with cruise line refunds that fall outside of insurance.

 

I have self insured most 7 day sails. Flying in a day or more before the cruise and having evacuation insurance as a part of my health care, I accepted the risk, especially when sailing in the cheap seats. Over time it has paid for itself.

 

It is 90% back (95% at 31 days) plus of course you do not get the insurance premium back. You get the port charges and taxes back even if you did not get insurance.

[hammybee]

It is 90% back (95% at 31 days) plus of course you do not get the insurance premium back. You get the port charges and taxes back even if you did not get insurance.

 

 

Jade, This is the source of my information ( from HAL's web site) which shows 100%. Am I missing something?

 

CPP PLATINUM PLAN: Our CPP Platinum Plan enables you to supplement the CPP Standard Plan with insurance coverage underwritten by Virginia Surety Company, Inc. under Policy Number HTP04195. The CPP Platinum Plan also includes various travel assistance services arranged by BerkelyCare. Neither BerkelyCare nor the insurers are affiliated with Holland America Line. The specific coverage and services available under the CPP Platinum Plan are specified in the following Plan Description - Schedule of Benefits and Services.

PLAN DESCRIPTION - SCHEDULE OF BENEFITS AND SERVICES

 

CPP PLATINUM PLAN

Policy Number HTP04195

Per Guest Maximum, Up to: PART A: TRAVEL ARRANGEMENT PROTECTION Trip Cancellation< 24 hours prior to departure························································ Total Cruise/Cruisetour Cost

Trip Interruption····························150% of Total Cruise/Cruisetour Cost

Trip Delay····························$1,000 ($100/day

[Jade13]

I agree with Hammy. What HAL offers is Cancellation Protection Policy- which is a little different than insurance. The CPP allows you to cancel for any reason (no proof, documentation, doctor's note, nothing needed) up to 24 hours before the cruise. However, the CPP needs to be purchased at the time of deposit. There are 3rd party insurance plans that you could purchase later...it's all a matter of research and understanding what you're purchasing and making the best decision for you.

 

I'm sorry the OP is out the money, but it seems to be a lack of understanding or explanation from the TA.

 

HAL's Platinum Plan is insurance and would refund 100% back after final payment (minus the cost of the insurance) for a covered reason. HAL assumes the Cancel for Any Reason which is up to 24 hours prior to departure at which time your still have the insurance through Berkley for the Medical evacuation ($50K) and other medical.

 

Btw, Celebritys Evacuation is only up to 25K (at least in the Carribean). I wonder if the OP or others would feel ripped off if they had to be evacuated, found out the cost was 50K and their policy was only up to 25K? Would they blame the other line for not giving them enough insurance to cover the cost?

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

Just consider it another 'life lesson', i.e., buyer beware.

 

This to, will pass...

 

Regardless, may your future cruise be one filled with memories.

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health!

Bob:)

[Jade13]

Jade, This is the source of my information ( from HAL's web site) which shows 100%. Am I missing something?

 

CPP PLATINUM PLAN: Our CPP Platinum Plan enables you to supplement the CPP Standard Plan with insurance coverage underwritten by Virginia Surety Company, Inc. under Policy Number HTP04195. The CPP Platinum Plan also includes various travel assistance services arranged by BerkelyCare. Neither BerkelyCare nor the insurers are affiliated with Holland America Line. The specific coverage and services available under the CPP Platinum Plan are specified in the following Plan Description - Schedule of Benefits and Services.

PLAN DESCRIPTION - SCHEDULE OF BENEFITS AND SERVICES

 

CPP PLATINUM PLAN

Policy Number HTP04195

Per Guest Maximum, Up to: PART A: TRAVEL ARRANGEMENT PROTECTION Trip Cancellation< 24 hours prior to departure························································ Total Cruise/Cruisetour Cost

Trip Interruption····························150% of Total Cruise/Cruisetour Cost

Trip Delay····························$1,000 ($100/day

 

It is 90% back in cash at 30 days - 24 hours prior to departure if you Cancel for Any Reason. It is 100% back before departure if you cancel for a covered reason (could be death in family) and after that the return is prorated (Trip interruption). Your original post went on to say "For Any Reason". Btw, a lot of people love their pets like children and could be out thousands if that pet gets sick prior to leaving for a cruise. A lot of folks would cancel and only an "Any Reason" policy would cover that reason.

 

Only the Platinum Plan is "Insurance". The CPP standard is a offered directly by HAL.

[WillieF]

Cost of Insurance refundable? - I've yet to hear that!

Transferable, frequently possible - there's probably a time limit.

 

We've never bought HAL's insurance, always insuring thru a 3rd party. We arrange insurance on the 'due Balance Payment date. There's no need (I SPEAK ONLY OF HAL) for coverage prior to that (usually about 75+- days prior to departure date). HAL will refund your deposit, in full, if cancellation is advised prior to the BP due date. We seldom use HAL's air so we include the cost of that and anything else we're likely to prepay prior to sailing.

 

And that "24 hours prior' clause - well much can go wrong in those last 24 hours. What about being involved in a car smash up enroute to the airport or departure port? What about your home being broken into the night before the cruise?......you get my drift.

 

We did once have to cancel a cruise the morning we were due to sail - emergency surgery in the middle of the night! Most fortunately our TA was a very close friend and he made all the necessary phone calls, with HAL's coverage we'd have "been out to lunch" !:(

 

To the best of my recollections, we were reimbursed for all but a few dollars of what we'd paid out......cost of Insurance NOT included! Completing the claim forms is a nightmare! Just make sure you have a record of everything you've spent, or pledged to spend (e.g.hotel reservations) preferably by CC.

 

Buying insurance is not for sissies! You, personally, need to do some research or have a really good TA - the saying, "if you don't ask the right questions you won't get the right answers" is very true these days, even with trusted TA's - everyone is out to make a buck!

[hammybee]

It is 90% back in cash at 30 days - 24 hours prior to departure if you Cancel for Any Reason. It is 100% back before departure if you cancel for a covered reason (could be death in family) and after that the return is prorated (Trip interruption). Your original post went on to say "For Any Reason". Btw, a lot of people love their pets like children and could be out thousands if that pet gets sick prior to leaving for a cruise. A lot of folks would cancel and only an "Any Reason" policy would cover that reason.

 

Only the Platinum Plan is "Insurance". The CPP standard is a offered directly by HAL.

 

Jade, I reread the entire thing and was mistaken. Thank you for being persistent. It is 90% when the cancellation is for reasons other than those covered. I should have shut my pie hole after copying the non- refundable blurb form the HAL policy.

 

Nonetheless, it remains the best for those that may need to cancel for any reason up to 24 hours before the cruise. There are so many reasons that might cause someone to need to cancel unrelated to their own health or that of an immediate family member, such as job loss, business emergency, wife running away with the milkman or health problems of a close but not immediate family member or dear friend.

[hammybee]

And that "24 hours prior' clause - well much can go wrong in those last 24 hours. What about being involved in a car smash up enroute to the airport or departure port? What about your home being broken into the night before the cruise?......you get my drift.

 

We did once have to cancel a cruise the morning we were due to sail - emergency surgery in the middle of the night! Most fortunately our TA was a very close friend and he made all the necessary phone calls, with HAL's coverage we'd have "been out to lunch" !:(

 

HAL has many voyages, 30, 60 and more days long. The cost of these sails can be substantial and final payment date is earlier than it is for routine cruises. Being able to cancel up to 24 hours prior to sailing for any reason may be of tremendous value as it reduces the loss risk from months to a single day.

I have no idea why you believe you would not have been covered for a medical emergency occuring on the day of your cruise, had you chosen HAL's insurance. The insurance is more than just the upfront cancel for any reason thing.

There are always less costly insurers and the deveil is in the details.