The NCL Dream has struck a barge

[San Diego Ellie]

Sounds to me that with a 50% refund of the cruise fare plus a $150 per person oboard credit, NCL is being more than fair to passengers on the Dream.

[Cruising Ken]

Sounds to me that with a 50% refund of the cruise fare plus a $150 per person oboard credit, NCL is being more than fair to passengers on the Dream.

 

Me too. I'd take 50% refund anyday as long as they let me stay on board:D

[warburg]

Anyone know who the current Captain of the Dream is?

 

Why would that matter? The captain has nothing to do with it. When a ship enters a port, all authority is relinquished to the pilot of that port. When you see a red and white flag go up on the left side of the mast, it means that the pilot has taken command and the captain is no longer in authority and no longer has responsibility.

 

I was first officer of a naval ship years ago. The protocol was that when the captain left the bridge or was somehow otherwise occupied he said to me, or whichever officer on the bridge had the highest rank, "You have the con," and i replied "I hav the con." At that point I was in total command of the ship and the captain no longer had either responsibility or authority until he again verbally assumed command. There is a similar protocol for merchant and cruise ships, but almost all ports have pilots and will not allow a captain to bring the ship into a commercial port. I really don't understand the blame that's being placed on the "officer on watch," who may or may not have been the captain.

[xrustygalx]

obviously this delay and inconvience is not cause d by an act of god..the Dream struck another vessel..if it s proven that it was the fault of

NCL..then i would think that the $150 OBC is just part of the compensation package to passenger s..

 

anyone find what the cruise contract say s about compensation regarding

reckless sailing?

 

This comment seemed a bit abrasive to say the least. We have no idea whether it was the Dreams fault or the cargo ship's fault. Unfortunately ships don't have breaks. I used to do some captaining, albeit on much smaller ships (research vessels). It's not an easy job, and there are a lot of factors that you have to deal with. You have to deal with massive inertial forces operating a 100,000 ton vessel through the water.

 

I'm just saying not to put the guy on a pitchfork yet. Your talking about someone who's whole career is on the line, and probably will be fired even if he wasn't at fault just for PR.

 

I think we all should take a moment to pray for patience and understanding for everyone on board, passengers and crew. I am sure this is a very difficult and emotional time for all.

[blindrid]

Why would that matter? The captain has nothing to do with it. When a ship enters a port, all authority is relinquished to the pilot of that port. When you see a red and white flag go up on the left side of the mast, it means that the pilot has taken command and the captain is no longer in authority and no longer has responsibility.

 

I was first officer of a naval ship years ago. The protocol was that when the captain left the bridge or was somehow otherwise occupied he said to me, or whichever officer on the bridge had the highest rank, "You have the con," and i replied "I hav the con." At that point I was in total command of the ship and the captain no longer had either responsibility or authority until he again verbally assumed command. There is a similar protocol for merchant and cruise ships, but almost all ports have pilots and will not allow a captain to bring the ship into a commercial port. I really don't understand the blame that's being placed on the "officer on watch," who may or may not have been the captain.

 

Good post as most people do not know that....

[perfikt]

http://www.miamiherald.com/business/story/344219.html

[shwa65]

I’m a passenger on the Dream, and I don’t know who was in charge when the collision occurred. My best guess is that the pilot was long gone and the Captain was in charge:

1. After the collision, the Captain said that a pilot boat would come out and inspect the Dream. About 15-20 minutes later, a small pilot boat showed up, and went around the Dream several times. We didn’t see any such boat at the time of the collision.

2. If a pilot had been in charge of the ship, it seems very, very likely that there would have been an announcement to the passengers to that effect.

The maritime attorneys will sort all this out, of course.

One important bottom line in all this is that the staff and crew have been GREAT under difficult circumstances.

I’ve put more personal observations than anybody wants to read on another thread starting December 13 (search for Norwegian Dream).

[cruzegirl]

An people ask why they need to take Duct Tape with them!

 

:eek: :D Oh my gosh.. I know it's not funny what happened and I hope everyone is ok.... But that was funny......

[deepnite10]

This comment seemed a bit abrasive to say the least. We have no idea whether it was the Dreams fault or the cargo ship's fault. Unfortunately ships don't have breaks. I used to do some captaining, albeit on much smaller ships (research vessels). It's not an easy job, and there are a lot of factors that you have to deal with. You have to deal with massive inertial forces operating a 100,000 ton vessel through the water.

 

I'm just saying not to put the guy on a pitchfork yet. Your talking about someone who's whole career is on the line, and probably will be fired even if he wasn't at fault just for PR.

 

I think we all should take a moment to pray for patience and understanding for everyone on board, passengers and crew. I am sure this is a very difficult and emotional time for all.

 

OH SHEESH !! can i say im sorry then..? just trying to lighten up a very serious situation:D

 

regardless of the blame..the captain whether he was on the con or not is going to have alot of question s to answer ..and im sure the answer s are not going to satisfy alot of ear s..

[Cosmopolitan]

This comment seemed a bit abrasive to say the least. We have no idea whether it was the Dreams fault or the cargo ship's fault. Unfortunately ships don't have breaks. I used to do some captaining, albeit on much smaller ships (research vessels). It's not an easy job, and there are a lot of factors that you have to deal with. You have to deal with massive inertial forces operating a 100,000 ton vessel through the water.

 

I'm just saying not to put the guy on a pitchfork yet. Your talking about someone who's whole career is on the line, and probably will be fired even if he wasn't at fault just for PR.

 

I think we all should take a moment to pray for patience and understanding for everyone on board, passengers and crew. I am sure this is a very difficult and emotional time for all.

 

Great post:)

[fin]

OH SHEESH !! can i say im sorry then..? just trying to lighten up a very serious situation:D

 

regardless of the blame..the captain whether he was on the con or not is going to have alot of question s to answer ..and im sure the answer s are not going to satisfy alot of ear s..

 

Do they start by asking him why a tow cable broke on a totally different vessel?

 

I am nowhere near sure that the harbor pilot had departed. In Bermuda he was on the bridge giving headings for well over an hour after departing Hamilton. If the collision blocked a channel leading to Montevideo, normally the captain would be having a bit of a breather while the harbor pilot did his job.

[Cosmopolitan]

Do they start by asking him why a tow cable broke on a totally different vessel?

 

That's what happens when posters do NOT read all of the posts:rolleyes:

 

I am nowhere near sure that the harbor pilot had departed. In Bermuda he was on the bridge giving headings for well over an hour after departing Hamilton.

 

Departing Bermuda takes a looooong time. They are "sticklers" in Bermuda;)

[smeyer418]

I’m a passenger on the Dream, and I don’t know who was in charge when the collision occurred. My best guess is that the pilot was long gone and the Captain was in charge:

1. After the collision, the Captain said that a pilot boat would come out and inspect the Dream. About 15-20 minutes later, a small pilot boat showed up, and went around the Dream several times. We didn’t see any such boat at the time of the collision.

2. If a pilot had been in charge of the ship, it seems very, very likely that there would have been an announcement to the passengers to that effect.

The maritime attorneys will sort all this out, of course.

One important bottom line in all this is that the staff and crew have been GREAT under difficult circumstances.

I’ve put more personal observations than anybody wants to read on another thread starting December 13 (search for Norwegian Dream).

 

Pilots are never in charge of the ship except in the Panama Canal. They give suggestions to the captain or the officer the Captain has appointed to take the ship out of the harbor but the Captain is always responsible for what happens on the ship. Its his license and he is in charge.

 

Even when the Pilot is responsible(he gives the wrong info to the Captain) in most countries their liability is strictly limited(if he was responsible for the whole ship the charge would go up immensely and the Pilotage charge is part of your cruise fare now-its in the port charges).

 

the Channel from Hamilton in Bermuda extends quite ways out. First you have to pass the dockyards make a right and then term left off St George where they finally take the pilot off---its a long way and its why it takes so long. Bermuda has notoriously narrow and shallow channels- both the NCL Crown and other ships have hit part of the channel.

 

That being said the Pilot in San Francisco where the ship hit the bridge last month has been required to surrender his license. The ship was arrested until a bond was posted and I am sure the Captain is not happy he followed the Pilots advice to go to full speed while he was still where he was....

 

There will be a full investigation in the Dream issue I wouldn't presume who was at fault until the report comes out.

 

In Bermuda a Pilots monetary liability is limited to $1000.00 by law.He can still go to jail if he does something grossly negligent. The Captain of the Valdez in Alaska(no pilot was on board I believe) was not on the Bridge at the time the ship hit an underwater reef. He had left a second officer in charge. He was responsible criminally for putting an inexperienced officer in charge and not supervising properly(he was also allegedly drunk at the time) but he was held criminally liable even though he put someone else in charge.

[smeyer418]

Good post as most people do not know that....

and its mostly wrong.

what the bridge officer is in charge of is the bridge. The Captain remains responsible for all the occurs on the ship. Yes the bridge officer can give orders but the captain can take charge any time he wants to and the Bridge officer can't disobey him. As for the pilot being in charge, the flag only means the pilot is on board. Except in the Panama Canal, the ship remains under the full control of its own officers under the command of the Captain.

 

http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html

 

flags and their meaning

[smeyer418]

and its mostly wrong.

what the bridge officer is in charge of is the bridge. The Captain remains responsible for all the occurs on the ship. Yes the bridge officer can give orders but the captain can take charge any time he wants to and the Bridge officer can't disobey him. As for the pilot being in charge, the flag only means the pilot is on board. Except in the Panama Canal, the ship remains under the full control of its own officers under the command of the Captain.

 

http://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/signal-meaning.html

 

flags and their meaning

 

and here is the Wilkipedia that says about the pilots

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbour_pilot

 

but it doesn't have the limitation about the Panama canal.

 

and this says the same thing and includes the info about the Panana Canal Pilots

 

http://cruises.about.com/cs/panama/a/panamacanal.htm

 

"The Panama Canal is the one place in the world where a ship's captain hands over control of his ship to another captain--the Canal pilot. This is necessary because of the technical skills and quick decisions needed to make it through without a scrape."

[Gank1037]

Why would that matter? The captain has nothing to do with it. When a ship enters a port, all authority is relinquished to the pilot of that port. When you see a red and white flag go up on the left side of the mast, it means that the pilot has taken command and the captain is no longer in authority and no longer has responsibility.

 

I was first officer of a naval ship years ago. The protocol was that when the captain left the bridge or was somehow otherwise occupied he said to me, or whichever officer on the bridge had the highest rank, "You have the con," and i replied "I hav the con." At that point I was in total command of the ship and the captain no longer had either responsibility or authority until he again verbally assumed command. There is a similar protocol for merchant and cruise ships, but almost all ports have pilots and will not allow a captain to bring the ship into a commercial port. I really don't understand the blame that's being placed on the "officer on watch," who may or may not have been the captain.

 

 

Relax, bro. I was just asking because I was on the Dream last year and wanted to know if the same Captain is on board. I didn't re-read my post, but I don't think I accused anyone of anything. Also, thank you for your service to our country and the above info.

[zqvol]

NCL went above board IMO..50% refund on passenger s fair as well

as the $150 OBC..i understand that those who want to book a future

cruise that they re going to give each of them a 15% discount as well..

 

i think that with such compensation i d just forget about *who s to blame* and continue having a good time..let the lawyer s figure it all

out..:p

 

I agree NCL had no obligation to give them even what they did, the ship is safe, all services are being provided and the contract of carriage says that the schedule can be changed at any time for any reason. NCL has gone way above what is required. If you sail because of a particular port stop, just don't. Get on a plane and go there instead.

[JoeCanadian]

There are some incredible frame by frame pictures of the actual collision at http://www.montevideo.com.uy/galerianot_54118_1.html

[salty dingo]

It's a real shame that passengers, in an unfortunate and rare event such as this, think only of themselves, and of how much money they can extract from the cruise line.

 

I am certain that if I were on that ship, I would be quite content with my discount, and well able to deal with the disappointment of missing some ports of call.

[whale-watcher]

There are some incredible frame by frame pictures of the actual collision at http://www.montevideo.com.uy/galerianot_54118_1.html

impressive pictures...thanks for posting the link.

[rsinj]

It's a real shame that passengers, in an unfortunate and rare event such as this, think only of themselves, and of how much money they can extract from the cruise line.

 

I am certain that if I were on that ship, I would be quite content with my discount, and well able to deal with the disappointment of missing some ports of call.

 

I don't think it is so easy to put yourself in that situation and theorize what your reaction would be.

 

It's not as though this was a cruise that left a US port and was headed on a standard Caribbean itinerary. For many, I'd guess it was sort of a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Not something that you could take your refund/discount and easily rebook for some other time in the future.

 

Anyhow, it's incomprehensible to me that a cruise ship, no matter who was commanding, could run into a barge as shown in the frame by frame pictures in broad day light. Don't these people practice "defensive driving" like we all learned when we were teenagers?

 

Howard

[Retired not Expired]

I don't think it is so easy to put yourself in that situation and theorize what your reaction would be.

 

It's not as though this was a cruise that left a US port and was headed on a standard Caribbean itinerary. For many, I'd guess it was sort of a once in a lifetime kind of thing. Not something that you could take your refund/discount and easily rebook for some other time in the future.

 

Anyhow, it's incomprehensible to me that a cruise ship, no matter who was commanding, could run into a barge as shown in the frame by frame pictures in broad day light. Don't these people practice "defensive driving" like we all learned when we were teenagers?

 

Howard

 

Pictures can be deceiving as this looks to be open water. Media reports say this was shallow water. This incident also blocked any ships from entering or leaving the port until it was checked and cleaned up. Therefore, ships could not pass to the left or right of this spot so the water must be too shallow. So where would they turn the ship even if they had time to turn it? Ships don’t turn on a dime. So the choices were most likely hit the barge or run the ship aground.

 

Reports also said the ship was doing 17 knots, which may have been needed to go through the narrow channel in the currents, but that it had slowed to 14 knots at the time it hit. Therefore, action was being done to minimize the impact.

 

We all need to wait for the investigation and report but my own guess would be, the barge broke loose, the current carried the barge in front of the ship, and the ship could not turn without running aground and could not stop in time to avoid the collision. A true accident due to occurrences beyond anyone control except perhaps there could have been more than one line ran between the tug and the barge.

[JoeCanadian]

Found a couple of more pics....

[Planer's Edge]

Here is a picture from the actual impact, probably from the port web cam.

 

PE

[fin]

It's a real shame that passengers, in an unfortunate and rare event such as this, think only of themselves, and of how much money they can extract from the cruise line.

 

I am certain that if I were on that ship, I would be quite content with my discount, and well able to deal with the disappointment of missing some ports of call.

 

Others have already responded to this, but it strikes me as arrogantly insensitive. As has been mentioned countless times, cruisers pretty much divide into two classes. One would not care if the ship never made it further than international waters, so long as the martini clinics were intact and they had specials on the buckets of beer. I have seen them in the casino - drink in one hand and pulling handles on the slots, from one of the Panama Canal to the other, without missing a beat from Miraflores to Gatun.

 

The other group, and it included the vast majority of the people on the Crown when I took the same trip several years ago, probably would not know for several days if every bartender on the ship magically disappeared. They have read extensively about the places they will visit and the animals they will see. Many, as has been mentioned, are not young and have saved a LOT of money for a trip to places that are NOT readily visited any other way. The airfare alone for this trip can cost more than many 5 to 7 day cruises cost. Many, lower cost aside, will NOT have the opportunity to repeat this adventure.

 

So it is all well and good for you to crow smugly about how you MIGHT behave under similar circumstances, but it betrays a snide disregard for the very real feelings of others whose viewpoints and attitudes may be a good deal different from yours. --Last two lines deleted--