What Has Happened to the Veendam?

[ddjwms]

Just back from an Alaskan cruise on the Veendam. Alaska was beautiful; great weather despite it being early September, and great calving on the glaciers.

But we were a little disappointed in the Veendam and changes we saw in her (we were on this ship two years ago in the Caribbean) Her crew was still friendly and smiling, and there were great new mattresses, thick and comfy on the beds--best we've ever seen on a ship. But overall, the ship really seems to have deteriorated. Three of the eight elevators were out of service the whole trip, and we never even saw anyone working on them. The laundry room on our floor was out of order all week. I saw a chair in a public area that not only had split upholstery, but the stuffing was actually hanging out...This ship was not being maintained in shipshape!

In addition, food portions were quite small. On formal night, the menu offered "half a lobster tail"! In our rooms, we received one small bottle of shampoo on the first day, and it was never replaced even though it was empty by the third day; we thought our steward was just unobservant or slothful until we heard someone from another floor make the same exact complaint, so we decided it must be ship's policy...My husband said they were acting liking Motel 6...

This was our fourth cruise on Holland America and, as I said, our second on the Veendam itself. So the lack of maintenance and penny-pinching were noticeable contrasts to past experiences on this line and even this ship. Has anyone else had a similar experience with HAL and/or the Veendam recently? What is going on with them? I thought the cruise lines were making record profits; is that because they are cutting corners? Is this the Carnival influence creeping into HAL? Or is this just poor management on the Veendam? Does anyone have any ideas?

[dakrewser]

Sad to hear that about the Veendam, she was a lovely ship. We've heard from others about the "half lobster tail", but not about the other things you mentioned.

 

It isn't so much Carnival influence (that's been around for quite a while) but reaction to the changes in cruising in the past three years - lowered prices to attract people back, but then lowered service so that there's at least a chance to break even. I do see that prices are going up next year, so maybe service will return to what we had come to expect....

[elmorejj]

Noticed on the Zaandam in April that toiletries were only replaced every 7 days. That doesn`t bother me as I use my own. Sheets also were only changed every 7 days, now that I didn`t like. I accidently on purpose spilled some coffee on my sheets on the fourth day and requested a change. Its a sad way to go....jean :cool:

[Krazy Kruizers]

That is sad to hear about the Veendam. We are scheduled to be on her in Nov 2005.

Others from various ships have talked about the smaller portions and the half lobster tails.

Toiletries - we ran our of shampoo on day 4 of a 13 day cruise on the Maasdam in May and it was replaced right away.

 

[Esme]

Did you ask the cabin steward for more shampoo? If not you can't blame him - he doesn't check to see if the bottle is empty. If we run out, I just ask him for more and have always received it. Same for shower caps and soap.

[Stevesan]

What is going on with them? I thought the cruise lines were making record profits; is that because they are cutting corners? Is this the Carnival influence creeping into HAL? Or is this just poor management on the Veendam? Does anyone have any ideas?

Carnival is reporting $200M net income for Y2004. This is a lowered projection based on lost earnings due to Hurricane Frances. The new projection is 32 cents per share for the year, an increase from last year.

"We'll get through it. The nice thing about our business is it's resilient," said Howard Frank, vice chairman and chief operating officer of Miami-based Carnival , which operates12 brands, including Cunard and Princess.

 

Total cruise industry revenues projection for Y2004 is $15B. Carnival and RCI control two-thirds of that total.

[RedmondCruiser]

Most people want to blame this all on Carnival, I believe this comes from HAL. I went to a long Q & A session, with Kirk Lanternman, where he was asked about Carnivals involvement. His answer was a suprise. He said that in the 14 years they owned HAL they had only visited Seattle three times. I doubt that Mickey would tamper with winning formula and alienate a loyal cliental. He's too good of a business man for that. What I wonder is if this is from Kirk Lanternman or Stein Kruse.

 

I've noticed the changes on the last cruise we did on the Ryndam this summer. We took the Ryndam to Seward and then the Vision of the Seas back to Vancouver. The comparison was interesting. They are a step down from HAL but I thought they tried harder. Stewards only had 12 cabins rather than 15 and the waiters had less tables. -- It makes a difference.

 

 

The only 1/2 lobster tail we ever got was on Princess and I know that it was an availability problem and not policy - I would be surprised if HAL did'nt have a similar problem.

 

Going on a 21 day PC cruise in one months time - so I'll see if there is any changes.

[RevNeal]

But overall, the ship really seems to have deteriorated. Three of the eight elevators were out of service the whole trip, and we never even saw anyone working on them. The laundry room on our floor was out of order all week. I saw a chair in a public area that not only had split upholstery, but the stuffing was actually hanging out...This ship was not being maintained in shipshape!

 

Are these the only physical problems you noticed on the Veendam during your cruise? What about paint condition, wood polish/varnish, gym equipment condition, window cleaning, carpet condition, air-conditioning function, stabilizer operation, anchor function, toilet operation, etc.? How were these areas?

 

Let's list your identified physical/structural problems again for the sake of clarity:

 

1. Three out of eight elevators not working
   
2. Laundry room out of service
   
3. A chair in a public area had split upholstery and had stuffing hanging out
   

 

While I don't want to minimize this list of problems -- the elevators should be working, each floor's laundry room should be operational, and all chairs should be intact -- nevertheless, if this is all you noticed it doesn't sound all that bad. At the risk of being branded a "HAL apologist," in my opinion the phrasing that you used ("overall, the ship really seems to have deteriorated" & "This ship was not being maintained in shipshape!") is at least somewhat hyperbolic. Is the Veendam entirely "ship shape and bristol fashion" (i.e., everything "neat and tidy")? Apparently not ... that torn seat is enough to rob her of the "spotless fleet" title, though in my opinion the malfunctioning elevators are the biggest problem. I must admit that they always seem to be working on the elevators on HAL ships; I can't imagine how difficult it must be to keep technology functional on a ocean-going vessel! Perhaps they were lacking some parts and waiting for them to be flown in from wherever they come from? I have no idea. Whatever the cause, she seemed to have a few physical flaws on your cruise -- something I find unfortunate. But, to cast her as if she were almost as bad as a tramp steamer (my terminology, not yours) is to go a bit too far. She's not sinking, nor is she trashed, nor is she even "deteriorating"; she had a drydocking just a few months ago, so she's been recently serviced, and her latest CDC score (recorded on 7/18/2004) was a VERY HIGH 97. So, in truth, she's not really "deteriorating". Is she in need of some attention in what would appear to be a few areas? Yes, she is ... and I would hope that those areas will be addressed ... and soon.

 

Thanks for your report. I hope you pointed out some of these problems in your evaluation of the cruise?

[dakrewser]

nevertheless, if this is all you noticed it doesn't sound all that bad.

Sorry, Greg, but I've got to disagree with you. While I can't remember a cruise where all the elevators worked all the time, how hard is it to remove a broken chair from public view? It's this inattention to detail, not the overall condition, that's worrying. Slippery slope, camel's nose, etc....

 

-dave

[RevNeal]

Sorry, Greg, but I've got to disagree with you. While I can't remember a cruise where all the elevators worked all the time, how hard is it to remove a broken chair from public view? It's this inattention to detail, not the overall condition, that's worrying. Slippery slope, camel's nose, etc....

 

Actually, Dave, we don't disagree; you would appear to be disagreeing with something that I neither wrote nor implied. Did I say it was okay for there to be any kind of inattention to detail? No, I didn't. Indeed, quite the contrary, I said that the identified problems were unfortunate and should have been attended to. And, indeed, I would imagine that they HAVE been attended to.

 

My point was that, given just these three problems, the ship can HARDLY be said to be "deteriorating," nor is she sinking, falling apart, or a tramp steamer simply because there are a few (a very few) mostly superficial problems. Should the chair have been immediately attended to? Yes. Indeed, given the information we have at this point we can't really say that it wasn't tended to once it was noticed by a crew person. After all, we don't know how long it had been sitting there ... a passenger might have damaged the chair only an hour or two before it was noticed by ddjwms. Unless we have more information, we cannot say (for sure) that this was a sign of "inattention to detail." We don't even know what kind of chair it was ... was it part of a sofa that would have been difficult to remove or must be repaired on site? Unless we're told more, we don't really know.

 

The thrust of my response was that those three identified problems are not indicative of a ship that is "deteriorating." They ARE indicative of a operational SHIP ... a passenger vessel that, by the very nature of its duties, will undergo wear and tear over time. I'm amazed that there are not many more such problems. This, however, doesn't mean that I'm happy or satisfied if there are only a few. I AGREE ... such things need to be tended to. However, compared with the HUGE list of potential issues (all of which have been reported on this board in the past), these three are not all that bad. Or, perhaps it would be better to say ... not all that bad assuming they are being tended to in a timely manner.

[CanSail]

I am sorry dear Rev. but I must politely disagree with you if you do not mind.

 

I have sailed the Veendam 3 times and have always loved her, I find it hard to read about even one item on this ship being left in disrepair let alone the above list.

Sadly I have read many more complaints about the shape of the beautiful HAL ships in the past year then I have ever before (reading cruise reviews),

I keep thinking maybe the repairs are just being placed on hold until dry-dock, but honestly that still does not cut it.

Hopefully HAL will start to remember that sometimes you only have one chance to make a lasting first impression...so it better be good.

 

Happy Sailing To All

[RevNeal]

I am sorry dear Rev. but I must politely disagree with you if you do not mind.

 

:)

I don't mind at all. So ... you think the Veendam is a tramp steamer and is sinking? ;) I just don't see the problems outlined as being so bad as to justify he terms used in the initial post. If you disagree, I certainly understand ... many people are prone to hyperbole (myself included).

[cactuslady]

Oh Rev, Rev, Rev. Here I am being an apologist for tramp steamers:

 

tramp, n. 4. a freight ship that has no regular schedule, arranging for cargo, passengers, and ports of call as it goes along.

 

-- Webster's New World Dictionary (1970, sad to say)

 

Technically, the term has nothing to do with condition of the ship.

 

Although, it could perhaps be applied to whatever cruise ships are currently wandering around the Caribbean trying to avoid the steady stream of hurricanes . . . :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

Technically, the term has nothing to do with condition of the ship.

 

Technically, you're right. However, such cargo vessels are usually operated without major corporate financing, on a shoestring budget and without scheduled maintainence. It is this characteristic of the idiom that is generally intended when HAL detractors use the term for HAL ships which, they feel, are "substandard."

 

Granted, I was the one who used the term relative to the Veendam ... as an example of hyperbolic attribution.

[Cruising Illini]

Several weeks ago it was noted that the Veendam goes in for drydock soon -- I believe maybe this Fall. We will take in Jan. and I know I commented that this would occur before our trip.

[cruzincurt]

I say, put the microscope away and quit looking for things to gripe about and to post on the bulletin board. Is there not something in your house that needs repair or to be thrown out? Quit looking down and look out at the wonderful scenery. And thank your lucky stars that you are fortunate to be here, on a cruise.

 

The ship sees thousands of people, day after day, week after week, non stop. Some people are pigs and rip and soil things, drop drinks, drop food, put their feet up on the cushions, etc., hey it isn't their house. Carpets wear out. They'll take care of it.

 

People complain about gaining weight, then they take the elevator down one floor. On the Caribbean Princess earlier this year, we took the 11 flights of steps up and down every time; didn't gain a pound. Save the elevators for those who really need them.

 

Give some people a bar of gold and they'll complain how heavy it is.

[dakrewser]

I say, put the microscope away and quit looking for things to gripe about and to post on the bulletin board. Is there not something in your house that needs repair or to be thrown out?

It isn't the actual items that the OP was complaining about, but the deterioration in service and attention to detail. When, over time, the ship gets shabbier and shabbier then that is cause to wonder if, in fact, the cruise line has decided that maintenance is no longer important. Many of us cruise with HAL because (among many other things) they've always paid attention to detail. If that's changing, then it may be time to look elsewhere.

 

-dave

[Tinknock50]

Hey!....the title of this post scared the heck out of me! I thought something happenned to ship which I will be boarding this Sunday!

 

Sounds like just cosmetics which I probably won't even notice.

[FlorenceItaly]

when I was on her a few weeks ago. Sean, have a fabulous trip. You will love the Veendam and her fabulous crew :). I am thrilled you found a few others that will be on your sailing. Looking forward to your review upon your return!

 

Marie

[RevNeal]

Is there not something in your house that needs repair or to be thrown out?

 

Sure, there is, but that's not the point. These ships are NOT our homes ... these are our fantasy ships, where we ESCAPE from the mundane elements of this life. Hence, flaws like a few elevators being out of service, a torn chair, and laundry rooms being out of service on their deck, all stand out to mar the fantasy. I don't like it when stuff like this happens, and want them corrected too.

[Tinknock50]

when I was on her a few weeks ago. Sean, have a fabulous trip. You will love the Veendam and her fabulous crew :). I am thrilled you found a few others that will be on your sailing. Looking forward to your review upon your return!

 

Marie

Thanks Marie! Getting EXTREMELY excited about this cruise!

[FlorenceItaly]

Thanks Marie! Getting EXTREMELY excited about this cruise!

 

You have every reason to be EXTREMELY excited....I can't express enough how much I LOVED this cruise and ALASKA.

 

Marie