Letter to Diamond Members (Merged Threads)

[hellosailer]

True, it will be nothing. But I am no longer going to cruise on RCCL or any other line because of a CL or free wine or any other perk. I had that as a reason to stay loyal to RCCL, and it was the WRONG reason.

 

The only reason to be loyal to RCCL will be IF I like them best. The only way to know if I like them best is to try others.

 

In the end, it will probably wind up where I regularly cruise on a few different lines, based more on ships, itinerary and price. As well as some occasional land based.

 

Oh, and I always said the CL and the free drinks were the tipping point for me. It's not the reason I sailed on RCCL, but it's the reason I ONLY sailed on RCCL. Do you see the difference between the two?

 

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Of course I do. I have to say, here and now, we often cruise on other lines, as do most of our friends!!! But we do enjoy the RCCL product more than the others. If we could only cruise once or twice a year, it would be RCCL. Celebrity comes next, then Princess, HAL and we have to try NCL next winter as RCCL do not have a presence in the Med.

 

But I still think that what RCCL is offering, is still very worth having - i.e. a private cocktail reception every evening. Yes, you have to pay, but you meet other frequent cruisers with whom you have much in common re travel. I can't comment on the private breakfast, concierge etc. as we don't use those facilities anyway. We like the CL - except during 5-8 as its so uncomfortable.

[sealord]

I am sorry, but I find your logic mystifying. Surely you cannot mean that having just experienced a significant removal by RC of promised benefits, cruisers should cast aside their disappointment and continue to cruise with RC out of a sense of loyalty. If you believe what I previously wrote "loyalty must be both ways, both up and down," you cannot believe that cruisers owe it to RC to continue cruising with RC out of a sense of loyalty.

 

You are correct. The Concierge lounge privileges, and other revoked benefits, were not a right by contract, and RC retained the right to change these things. But you apparently disagree with my comment that "having the legal right does not make it right."

 

Analogies are sometimes helpful for understanding. So here is one. Someone, perhaps hellosailer, commented about a disappointment with American Airlines and its mileage program. But suppose you have many thousands of AA miles in your account. Then suppose AA announced that they were eliminating the AA miles for (almost) free flights, or even that the required miles would hereafter be doubled. You would be an extremely unusual person if you were not very upset. Yet I believe you will find that American, and all other airlines, have stipulated that they have the right to change as they see fit.

 

Perhaps only loosely related, but American, and others, have gradually increased mileage requirements, but we have used miles for such great trips as flying Business Class on Japan Air to China and Japan recently. (Incidentally, you never lose any miles in your account if you have a credit card giving miles for purchases, and use that card at least once a year.)

 

I do not intend to suggest that any airline is perfection in customer relations. But RC could have made a less drastic change by installing a two drink limit for "happy hour." I and others believe this would have both reduced costs and crowding. This change would be a slight change, similar in magnitude to an airline slightly increasing mile requirements for free flights. I think this would have been accepted with good grace by 99% of diamonds.

 

Finally, someone stole into my earlier post and suggested that I meant "empathizing" rather than "emphasizing". Yes, I did. My real spell-checker had gone to bed, so was not available. :D

 

The Brits have a saying which I believe fits Royal Caribbean management. They are too clever by one-half. :rolleyes:

 

Bob :cool:

 

Another great post Bob. It is refreshing to read your logical and reasonable analysis. You have a firm grasp on the 'horns of the dilemma'.

(I was your subsitute 'spell-checker' ... hope you don't mind.)

[Ocean Boy]

We just received a very large benefit that makes any of the other Diamond privileges look petty. On our up-coming Med. cruise the fare has gone down about $1,000. I'll take that anyday instead of the free drinks, photo coupons and the other little perks. I don't know about the fares going down on other cruises but it's certainly worth checking. It sure made us happy.

 

And do you think that RCI gave that to you out of the goodness of its heart?? They did not GIVE you anything. The cruise price went down because it isn't selling well. It is simple supply and demand. Obviously, the cruise was overpriced. This seems to be a frequently talked about issue with RCI's initial pricing. It has absolutely no tie in with the C&A program, drinks, perks, combining of benefits, or any other issue being discussed here.

[beachbuzzard]

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Of course I do. I have to say, here and now, we often cruise on other lines, as do most of our friends!!! But we do enjoy the RCCL product more than the others. If we could only cruise once or twice a year, it would be RCCL. Celebrity comes next, then Princess, HAL and we have to try NCL next winter as RCCL do not have a presence in the Med.

 

But I still think that what RCCL is offering, is still very worth having - i.e. a private cocktail reception every evening. Yes, you have to pay, but you meet other frequent cruisers with whom you have much in common re travel. I can't comment on the private breakfast, concierge etc. as we don't use those facilities anyway. We like the CL - except during 5-8 as its so uncomfortable.

 

That's good, I'm glad you've cruised enough to develop that preference. I haven't. So, I will now go see what else is happening with other lines for myself and develop my own preference, independent of perks.

[sealord]

I am thankful that this thread has remained civil for some time now. Well, you have been a bit testy with sealord from time to time, but that's OK. I believe that any SOB who can take off and land an airplane on the deck of an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean can take care of himself. :D

 

Hey, I think you must have been too picky about your American flights. We usually make plans several months in advance, but we have always been able to obtain free AA flights which fit our needs. You lost all your miles because you did not have the proper credit card. Are there other areas where I can instruct you? :D

 

Bob :cool:

 

"Testy" ... that's a good word. I didn't think anyone else noticed.;)

 

"I believe that any SOB who can take off and land an airplane on the deck of an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean can take care of himself."

 

Thanks for your vote of confidence ... that would be true, of course.:D

 

"We usually make plans several months in advance, but we have always been able to obtain free AA flights which fit our needs. You lost all your miles because you did not have the proper credit card. Are there other areas where I can instruct you?"

 

Speaking of an SOB, we used to say of Robert Crandall, "He may be an SOB, but at least he is our SOB!" I've found the same about the miles. You do have to plan ahead, but we are going Business/First to Quito using miles for our Galapagos cruise on Xpedition.:)

 

Mike

[hellosailer]

And do you think that RCI gave that to you out of the goodness of its heart?? They did not GIVE you anything. The cruise price went down because it isn't selling well. It is simple supply and demand. Obviously, the cruise was overpriced. This seems to be a frequently talked about issue with RCI's initial pricing. It has absolutely no tie in with the C&A program, drinks, perks, combining of benefits, or any other issue being discussed here.

 

Well, I happen to disagree with you Ocean Boy!!

 

It has to do with everything, including the CL!!

 

Its all about the money - have said that from the beginning - and if he is saving $1000 - well, he can buy a 'few' drinks for that and won't miss the CL!!! Be too tipsy to notice where he is!!:D:p

 

Actually, I think you're being a little churlish!! (Another good word? And yes, I did notice 'testy' - thought that def was rather good). :D:D

[hellosailer]

:DSEALORD - just a thought!!! An awful thought!!!! Horror of horrors!!!

 

How on earth did you manage on all the cruises in your siggie? i.e.

 

Cruises

9/1/69 - 6/28/83 Wasp, Intrepid, Hancock, Oriskany, Enterprise, Constellation, Enterprise, Kitty Hawk, Ranger, Forrestal, Kennedy, and Eisenhower ... ;)

 

Did they all have a Concierge Lounge with free drinkies? ROTFL:D:D:D Perhaps you have gone soft in your old age!! So funny!!!

[Ocean Boy]

Well, I happen to disagree with you Ocean Boy!!

 

It has to do with everything, including the CL!!

 

Its all about the money - have said that from the beginning - and if he is saving $1000 - well, he can buy a 'few' drinks for that and won't miss the CL!!! Be too tipsy to notice where he is!!:D:p

 

Actually, I think you're being a little churlish!! (Another good word? And yes, I did notice 'testy' - thought that def was rather good). :D:D

 

Well, I agree with you on one point. It is all about the money. So if that is what this thread is all about then I guess it fits. My point was that the price drop had nothing to do with the poster in particular. It was not a perk. It was not a reward for past business. It was not an incentive for future business. It was a business decision made soley on how well the cruise was selling and nothing more or less than that.

[sealord]

:DSEALORD - just a thought!!! An awful thought!!!! Horror of horrors!!!

 

How on earth did you manage on all the cruises in your siggie? i.e.

 

Cruises

9/1/69 - 6/28/83 Wasp, Intrepid, Hancock, Oriskany, Enterprise, Constellation, Enterprise, Kitty Hawk, Ranger, Forrestal, Kennedy, and Eisenhower ... ;)

 

Did they all have a Concierge Lounge with free drinkies? ROTFL:D:D:D Perhaps you have gone soft in your old age!! So funny!!!

 

Five of those were full cruises ... six to ten months ... the others were 'mini' cruises, if you will ... CARQUALS, ie. Carrier Qualifications. We were required to stay 'current', that is you must get landings periodically in order to remain carrier qualified.;) I flew off carriers for a period of fifteen years, and I'm currently a docent volunteer on the USS Hornet Museum. The only person I know who 'may have' made twelve full 'cruises' was a rather notorious LSO named 'Bug' Roach. He was the best.

 

Drinkies on a US Navy vessel? ... not allowed since John Paul Jones. But, one pilot on the USS Oriskany led many of his shipmates to safety through the smoke during a 'serious' fire, because he could find the outside catwalk blindfolded. He could do that, because that is how he dumped his 'empties' ... late at night ... in total darkness. True story.

 

(By the way ... carrier landings can be exciting. The flight surgeon could administer 'medicinal alcohol' when deemed appropriate.)

[hellosailer]

Well, I agree with you on one point. It is all about the money. So if that is what this thread is all about then I guess it fits. My point was that the price drop had nothing to do with the poster in particular. It was not a perk. It was not a reward for past business. It was not an incentive for future business. It was a business decision made soley on how well the cruise was selling and nothing more or less than that.

 

A price drop of $1000 - NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR FUTURE BUSINESS??

 

I can't believe you wrote that:D:D

[hellosailer]

Five of those were full cruises ... six to ten months ... the others were 'mini' cruises, if you will ... CARQUALS, ie. Carrier Qualifications. We were required to stay 'current', that is you must get landings periodically in order to remain carrier qualified.;) I flew off carriers for a period of fifteen years, and I'm currently a docent volunteer on the USS Hornet Museum. The only person I know who 'may have' made twelve full 'cruises' was a rather notorious LSO named 'Bug' Roach. He was the best.

 

Drinkies on a US Navy vessel? ... not allowed since John Paul Jones. But, one pilot on the USS Oriskany led many of his shipmates to safety through the smoke during a 'serious' fire, because he could find the outside catwalk blindfolded. He could do that, because that is how he dumped his 'empties' ... late at night ... in total darkness. True story.

 

(By the way ... carrier landings can be exciting. The flight surgeon could administer 'medicinal alcohol' when deemed appropriate.)

 

Great story........................:D:D

 

What happened to "yo ho ho and a bottle of rum"? I daresay nowadays they smuggle booze in their luggage, just like on RCCL!!! Did you get airmiles on those flights by the way!!! ROTFL!!!

[bmazzo]

i haven't read this entire thread, but many of the posts herein. I've never cruised on rci, but from what i can glean, this whole brouhaha is over free drinks that were offered to diamond cruisers (same as platinum on carnival i assume). And now these free drinks are no longer being offered because of the cutbacks cruise lines in general and rci in particular are going through. I would also assume if you've cruised rci often enough to become diamond that certainly this line offers other things that you enjoy or prefer over other lines. I'm told your ships are beautiful and the service on them is superb. You must have many things that appeal to you about rci than just free drinks. :confused:

 

cruise lines in general, and rci in particular, are going through some incredible financial pressures right now, as almost all of us are. Rci has some huge ships with heavy debt loads, price point pressures for all cabin catetgories, etc., which are putting rci in tough competitive positions constantly. Many rci cruisers "jumping ship" (many over on the carnival boards) and moving over to other lines just doesn't strike me as loyal cruisers at all.

 

i'm platinum on carnival, but if for some reason all the perks were suddenly dumped in an attempt to keep my favorite cruise line operating i would just grin and bear it right along with carnival. Bite the bullet for the time being and try to make the best of it.:)

 

(i'm sorry if i sound like your parents).:rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

amen!

[sidekick98]

Yeah... but we've had problems with overcrowding in the overflow lounges as well... that's generally where we go too... it's not just been the CL itself.

 

On our recent Mariner cruise they opened the Lotus Lounge for overflow... the LL is HUGE and if you weren't there at 5:00 when it opened to get a seat, you weren't likely to get one... They had at least 6 waiters and 2 bartenders serving drinks to that crowd every night.

 

That's been the most extreme case of overcrowding in the overflow lounge we've experienced, but it has been a problem on more cruises that not that we've done.

 

I'm curious what trips you are taking where it's not a problem...

 

Just off Brilliance and we were in the overflow lounge on deck 13 never tried the CL at 5pm as the overflow on deck 13 was loverly and Eric was the best as I went in the door he would be pouring my diet coke and greeting me. Thre was only ever about a dozen or so of us in there and a very friendly crowd.

[james j feller]

If all you complainers jump from RCCL to other cruise lines like CELEBRITY or HAL you are in for a great surprize, you will get nothing on these lines.

 

JIM

[hellosailer]

If all you complainers jump from RCCL to other cruise lines like CELEBRITY or HAL you are in for a great surprize, you will get nothing on these lines.

 

JIM

 

Amen!!!

[bmazzo]

If all you complainers jump from RCCL to other cruise lines like CELEBRITY or HAL you are in for a great surprize, you will get nothing on these lines.

 

JIM

 

 

Yep, That is pretty much what I got on our Concierge Class TA on the Consellation in September. We are D+ on RCL and Elite on Celebrity. No CL lounge no nothing. But we know that going in. We probably won't be sailing with with Celeb. again but that is for other reasons. :) I still love RCL.

[SpekiTrout]

Amen!!!

 

Boy oh boy .. ain't that the truth !!! Actually I'm at the point that I hope they ALL go far far away and NEVER return ! Sad .. but true. So long and farewell !

[piercetc4]

here is a thought- some are saying we are fussing over free drinks- economy hurting / cutbacks going on everywhere/ have to be some things that caused us to choose rci to begin with etc...... remember why we cruise to begin with etc......

 

is 700 difference between apples to apples going to get you to choose door no 1 versus door no 2? or is that amt a mute point to you and your vacation dollars?

 

just asking because some ppl here dont seem to care about the $$- they will poo poo anyone who says anything derogatory about rci and the changes going on- at what point will you say i wont give up this xxxxxx and pay that xxxxx- for each cruiser this is different- some will pay up to xxxx more just to sail on rci.......when they could have cruised elsewhere for much less- to each one of us this amt is a diff amt- its not right for "money tree in the backyard" to make statements against/ defend what is going on to " i have to save / sacrifice for one nice vacation a yr"

just saying all this to say we are all entitled to our feelings/ opinions of what is going on and no one's opinion outweighs anothers here on the message boards............:):(:p

[Ocean Boy]

A price drop of $1000 - NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR FUTURE BUSINESS??

 

I can't believe you wrote that:D:D

 

I certainly am not saying that the price drop does not leave the customer with a good feeling. The point, once again, is that RCI did not drop the price in order to create good will and future business. It was done because the cruise was overpriced for the demand and not selling well. Maybe RCI should just intentionally overprice all of their cruises and then give everyone price drops. Wow, think of all the good will that will create.

[jensenbeach]

I think this is being made over complex. I believe there are about 3 categories, (a) Those who use RC, do not care about benifits as over the years have made it a habit to only look for RC cruises, (b) Some who worked and invested and scheduled RC in anticipation of the benifits for using RC and © thoses who actually went to an extra effort in anticipation of diamond recognition and were significantly disappointed when RC removed the benifit for certain class of ships. I believe there is a potential the loss revenue will be greater than what their business model reflected. In the case of (a) there will be little impact, (b) some impact by those who were blind sided by the change and were alert to the other benifits changed or removed and © most will either go to competition or consider the playing field level and will no longer think of RC as the primary carrier. The unknown is how many future cruisers, or friends will be influenced by some of B and C to use other lines. It may be possible to identify the last statement as category (d) = impact to new cruisers and friends. The positives will be there from (a) while some of (b) and © will have some influence on their decisions and most likely they will be negative.

[beachbuddy]

Boy oh boy .. ain't that the truth !!! Actually I'm at the point that I hope they ALL go far far away and NEVER return ! Sad .. but true. So long and farewell !

 

See ya..........sorry you have to leave so soon!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Actually, if you go away and stay away you won't have to deal with any of us!:D:D:D

[beachbuddy]

i certainly am not saying that the price drop does not leave the customer with a good feeling. The point, once again, is that rci did not drop the price in order to create good will and future business. It was done because the cruise was overpriced for the demand and not selling well. Maybe rci should just intentionally overprice all of their cruises and then give everyone price drops. Wow, think of all the good will that will create.

 

lol....:d:d:d

[glrounds]

I think this is being made over complex. I believe there are about 3 categories, (a) Those who use RC, do not care about benifits as over the years have made it a habit to only look for RC cruises, (b) Some who worked and invested and scheduled RC in anticipation of the benifits for using RC and © thoses who actually went to an extra effort in anticipation of diamond recognition and were significantly disappointed when RC removed the benifit for certain class of ships. I believe there is a potential the loss revenue will be greater than what their business model reflected. In the case of (a) there will be little impact, (b) some impact by those who were blind sided by the change and were alert to the other benifits changed or removed and © most will either go to competition or consider the playing field level and will no longer think of RC as the primary carrier. The unknown is how many future cruisers, or friends will be influenced by some of B and C to use other lines. It may be possible to identify the last statement as category (d) = impact to new cruisers and friends. The positives will be there from (a) while some of (b) and © will have some influence on their decisions and most likely they will be negative.

 

Excellent analysis, IMHO. :)

 

To many that are coming over to Carnival (for example), one of their first observations when they look into the pricing is how much more expensive their beloved RCI is. I'm sure many knew this and "lovingly" tolerated the higher pricing because they felt they were getting a better product and they were enjoying or looking forward to great perks. Having never cruised RCI, I'm not debating this point, as RCI might produce a product well worthy of this additional cost.

 

Many of the posters that have jumped ship are furious over the loss of perks or future perks but seem to be even more dismayed at the pricing difference. This difference will most likely become even more prominent as RCI deals with its debt on its megaships and Carnival continues to pay cash for its ships, thus carrying no debt load on new builds and continuing to provide "loyalty perks" (although they be very minimal by comparison :() for its loyal cruisers.

 

I think, to those that can tolerate the "Joe Farcus" effect :rolleyes:, a very small percentage will be back.

[STANMELB]

I have been told by my cruise agent that RCL has reduced the amount of discounts and shipboard credits that apply to each new reservation. Following is for a 7 night cruise.

 

Last year as a Diamond Member you could receive a balcony discount of 100 dollars per person. In my case a 200 dollar discount for my wife and I.

 

Also for a future booking on ship you received 100 dollars shipboard credit.

 

If you owned 100 shares of RCL stock, which we do, you received an additional 100 dollars shipboard credit.

 

You were also allowed to apply any coupons you received from RCL. These usually ranged between 50 to 150 dollars.

 

From now on you can only use the largest of the 4 credits I have mentioned. Which in a case such as mine I will receive 200 dollars in the balcony credit only and not the additional 250 dollar credits I received in past years.

 

This has not been mentioned in the E-mails from RCL, but was confirmed when I spoke to the Crown and Anchor Society customer rep.

 

However, they are honoring the credits for our cruises that were booked before these changes became effective in late 2008 and early 2009.

 

Please check with your travel agents and let me know if any of my information is incorrect.

 

Thank you

[Jeka]

But most view it as a promise when it is advertised that after so many cruises you get more discounts and better perks? Sure they can change their program at any time[we all know that]but it still hurts when something is taken away.When they announced no more free drinks,no more welcome back party and so on, people complained and then they say ok we will give you 25% off on drinks.That's like a slap in the face.

 

Aren't you forgetting free wine and champagne, also a private spot for a continental breakfast with concierge.

 

Come on, diamonds complained and got a big chunk of what they were going to miss. Clearly, this has become all about the free booze.