Letter to Diamond Members (Merged Threads)

[Ocean Boy]

Originally Posted by sealord

Actually, Curley, I have my Crown & Anchor application form right in front of me. The only 'disclaimer' on the form says, "Terms and Conditions Available On Request".;)

 

 

 

Actually, it does not matter any more than the disclaimer on the back of my ski lift ticket, which basicly says that the ski area management can take out a gun and shoot me, and they shall be held blameless. The "Terms and Conditions" are meaningless, if the offer is not backed up with some 'integrity'.

 

In view of the fact that it is clear that the 'loyalty' committment necessary to gain the 'benefit' is long term, it is implied that the earned benefit would be long term as well. No one would spend ten years 'collecting box tops' (or cruises), if the promised benefit was expected to disappear like a popcorn f*rt. This situation is like having the referee take points away from the 'visiting' team, after the game is over. Where is Mr. Spock when he is desperately needed?

 

That is actually a very good point. It is probably one of the better points made on this thread in awhile.

[montgomeryfamily]

Non-alcoholic speciality beverages are very inexpensive to make, so there would be very little cost to Royal Caribbean. They are marginally more expensive than the alcoholic version. The cost of the alcohol in a drink is between 50 and 65 cents, according to a previous poster on this thread.

 

 

Non-alcoholic speciality beverages are not more expensive than the alcoholic version. Not only do I know this from personal experience and also from doing the books/ordering for family owned restaurant/bar, but it also makes sense that a speciality drink containing alcohol cost more to make than the same speciality drink without the alcohol. After all, the non-alcoholic beverage is just the base to which the alcohol is added--for example, non-alcoholic Sunrise--alcoholic version Tequila Sunrise or non-alcoholic virgin Daiquiri--alcoholic version is the Daiquiri with the rum.

 

Actually, you are missing the point I'm making. While it is true that the CL didn't serve the non-alcoholic speciality beverages (although on some ships you could get them in the overflow lounge), this NEW so called "VIP" daily experience is going to REPLACE the current Diamond/Diamond Plus event which is held once during the cruise. At the Diamond/Diamond Plus event, non-alcoholic speciality beverages WERE available and served.

 

We have commented before to the concierge and on our comment cards as well as to the Loyalty Ambassador that it is not fair that Crown and Anchor provides complimentary alcoholic beverages and not the equivalent non-alcoholic beverages. When we first began cruising on Royal Caribbean, sodas were complimentary in the dining room and non-alcoholic speciality beverages were available at the Captain's Reception and C & A repeaters party (in addition to the Diamond/Diamond Plus event). Over time, this has been eliminated, while the complimentary alcoholic beverage occasions have been increased, such as opening up the CL to Diamond and Diamond Plus. So this so called "compromise" is the last straw. If Royal Caribbean is going to provide wine and champagne nightly, they need to the equivalent for non-alcoholic drinkers--either non-alcoholic champange and wine or a non-alcoholic speciality drink (but not the vile rumless fruit punch). Obviously the Crown and Anchor Society is not even considering non-alcoholic beverage drinkers.

 

Providing complimentary soda is not an equivalent or an acceptable substitute. When Royal Caribbean discontinued the complimentary sodas in the dining room, they introduced the soda package, which is currently $6.00 per day plus gratituty--basically creating a revenue stream from that which was complimentary. So to offer complimenary soda after pushing adult non-drinkers of alcohol to purchase these soda packages is like offering iced tea.

 

I actually do understand the point you are making about Royal Caribbean losing money based on the theory that they lose sales because of giving away drinks (assuming people would drinks if the drinks were not complimentary). Limiting costs could be achieved with the two coupon per day limit which I discussed in my post. This would provide the "free drink" amenity for which all of the alcohol drinkers have clamored and result in potential sales gain for those who desire more than the two drinks per day. As a stockholder, I do agree that excessive costs need to be limited.

 

But I think that we all should be in the same situation. Although we are Diamond Plus, we have supported the Diamond members when this change kicking Diamond members out of the CL was announced. However, if Royal Caribbean does not provide equivalent complimentary non-alcholic drinks, then complimentary alcoholic drinks should not be offered either.

 

So Sculptress, I am taking your advice about writing Mr. Goldstein. I also encourage all of those non-drinkers of alcoholic beverages to write/email Mr. Goldstein about this and request that we be treated the same as the alcohol drinkers and be given the equivalent complementary non-alcoholic beverages--not just sodas which are already purchased through the soda package (or that absolutely horrible rumless fruit punch which even children will not drink).

[ScarboroughCruiser]

New to this board, I'm confused still about the concierge eligibility situation as it relates to cruises before Sept 1. Sailing on IOS in May with a GS, so I know I will have access to the Concierge Lounge. I understand that the Diamond Lounge, exclusive to D/D+'s has similar services to the Concierge Lounge and a better view. So do C&A Diamonds still have access to both lounges on Freedom Class until Sept?

[elleluv]

New to this board, I'm confused still about the concierge eligibility situation as it relates to cruises before Sept 1. Sailing on IOS in May with a GS, so I know I will have access to the Concierge Lounge. I understand that the Diamond Lounge, exclusive to D/D+'s has similar services to the Concierge Lounge and a better view. So do C&A Diamonds still have access to both lounges on Freedom Class until Sept?

 

 

Diamond members currently only have access to the Diamond Lounge on the ships that have them (Freedom, Liberty, Independence at this point and Oasis and Allure once they sail)... no Concierge Lounge access... that's always been the case, so there's no change there.

[GEORGET]

You still don't get it. It's not the cost of the free drinks, it's the lost revenue from people not purchasing drinks in the ship's bars.

 

If you are a drinker, $19 a day is an excellent deal, depending on what it includes, such as wine with dinner etc. If you don't drink, then it's a really bad deal and I'm sure that NCL has done their homework and reckon that they can still make a profit, balancing out the drinkers and non drinkers.

 

I keep reading all these posts about free soft drinks. If you only drink sodas, do you buy the soda package at the start of the cruise or do you buy your sodas by the can? Just curious.

 

 

Hi Jbond

 

I notice my thread has been pulled regarding the drinks offer.

 

so that this does not get pulled

 

To those who did not read it , a quick version TA sent info on two cruises out of Southampton 23/24may 2009 NCL 5 day two ports RCCL 4 days one port.

According to the TA the NCL was $19 dollars a day more but included all drinks by the glass any bar .

 

this shows how cheap the cost of drinks they buy must be.

 

Jbond

As you seem happy with the new offer, and seem to champion RCCL can you explain why if house wine and champagne are free cheaper bar drinks are not?

I do not see how if i drink a more expensive free drink RCCL saves money?

 

We are lucky to have been on 4 cruises since August 2008 in balcony/suite shortest cruise

10days. What we have noticed is that on every cruise something has either disappeared or has now got a charge .

We are on a cruise this weekend and i am not looking forward to the lounge because I know what the main topic of conversation will be.

 

RCCL have made a really bad PR mistake here and should withdraw all the changes and have a rethink about the C&A.

 

My suggestion CL only for suite guests during breakfast and happy hour (including JS).

 

The overflow bar with the first three house drinks a day free and anymore 50% discount.

 

to pay for this do away with the diamond discount on suites and balconies.

That means we will really be paying for our own drinks but i like the atmosphere, the use of the Concierge service and the people we have meet.

Also those on a tight budget, in an inside or outside, who have been loyal would not be affected

 

do away with the VIP party

 

Forget the Diamond breakfast

 

Grandfather current diamond and diamond plus and base points on either days at sea or onboard spend. Remove the extra points for booking a suite or If not include the JS.

 

my view but can RCCL afford to lose there loyal members by becoming just another cruise line.

[Bobblsc]

No flak has come your way ........yet!!!!:p Anyone who expects loyalty from any big corporation these days, is living in cloud cuckoo land!!

 

In fact, loyalty seems to be a thing of the past - little of it from employees, employers, friends etc. Spoken like a true cynic - moi!!

 

Look at it this way - it was all great while it lasted!!!:D It was much, much better than any other Company's loyalty programme - and even in this revised form, STILL better than any of the others!!

 

Nothing is forever!!!

 

Your comments also are, in a way, in agreement with those who are opposed to the RC reductions of promised Concierge privileges. These people are not only arguing against RC Concierge privilege reductions, they are also arguing that the loyalty they have shown to Royal Caribbean has now been disregarded by Royal Caribbean. They are both angry and saddened by RC breaking a promise about diamond privileges. Now before you jump on this, I do not believe anyone here doubts the legal right for RC to do so, but having the legal right does not make it right. Whether the focus is on free drinks or socializing opportunities, or both, cruisers loyal to Royal Caribbean feel betrayed. If you and others so vehement against those opposing the changes cannot understand this, I believe you have a problem emphasizing with others.

 

During my short two year active duty tour, all required of ROTC at the time, as a young U.S.A.F. officer years ago, I learned that loyalty must be both ways, both up and down. My son, out of NROTC much more recently, learned the same.

 

Yes, it is sad that loyalty seems to be a vanishing concept. But this does not mean that loyalty is not of value. I believe it means that far too much emphasis is placed on the economic short term, at the expense of the long term.

 

RCL has always traded at lower share price than CCL in terms of P/E ratio, because they are significantly smaller. Perhaps RCL needs to keep its loyalty programs to avoid having its shares trade even lower compared to CCL.

 

My belief that RC is losing more than it gains by their Concierge, and other restrictive decisions, has been voiced often. I and my DW may or may not cruise again on RC or any other line. As I have explained before, we and others have many other travel options.

 

We are over 70 and thus denigrated by a few asses, not you, on this and other threads as being old and too set in our ways. But let me inform those who do so, with age comes wisdom. We have much.

 

Bob :cool:

[hellosailer]

Your comments also are, in a way, in agreement with those who are opposed to the RC reductions of promised Concierge privileges. These people are not only arguing against RC Concierge privilege reductions, they are also arguing that the loyalty they have shown to Royal Caribbean has now been disregarded by Royal Caribbean. They are both angry and saddened by RC breaking a promise about diamond privileges. Now before you jump on this, I do not believe anyone here doubts the legal right for RC to do so, but having the legal right does not make it right. Whether the focus is on free drinks or socializing opportunities, or both, cruisers loyal to Royal Caribbean feel betrayed. If you and others so vehement against those opposing the changes cannot understand this, I believe you have a problem emphasizing with others.

 

During my short two year active duty tour, all required of ROTC at the time, as a young U.S.A.F. officer years ago, I learned that loyalty must be both ways, both up and down. My son, out of NROTC much more recently, learned the same.

 

Yes, it is sad that loyalty seems to be a vanishing concept. But this does not mean that loyalty is not of value. I believe it means that far too much emphasis is placed on the economic short term, at the expense of the long term.

 

RCL has always traded at lower share price than CCL in terms of P/E ratio, because they are significantly smaller. Perhaps RCL needs to keep its loyalty programs to avoid having its shares trade even lower compared to CCL.

 

My belief that RC is losing more than it gains by their Concierge, and other restrictive decisions, has been voiced often. I and my DW may or may not cruise again on RC or any other line. As I have explained before, we and others have many other travel options.

 

We are over 70 and thus denigrated by a few asses, not you, on this and other threads as being old and too set in our ways. But let me inform those who do so, with age comes wisdom. We have much.

 

Bob :cool:

 

Hi Bob - well, I have been on the receiving end of many insults also!! I am also approaching the Big 7!!! Not only do I empathise with the Diamonds, I actually did something about it on our last cruise and got Diamonds admitted to the Lounge, because the ship was in contravention of Corporate Policy.

 

I do try and see both sides - I am very sympathetic to the disappointment of Diamonds who have lost the CL facility - but I also see that RCCL HAD to do something about the overcrowding - at times, it was a total zoo!! They received many complaints from Suite Guests who pay through the nose for extra amenities - and its only on RCCL that the CL is open to non-suitees!!! On all other lines, you want the use of a Concierge Lounge, you have to book a suite!!

 

I think for RCCL it was a no-win situation. I was on the Navigator a couple of years ago, when they were clearing up after the freebie pm - the rows of empty bottles of liquor was unbelievable and that was without the satellite lounge consumption. And what about the loss of revenue, had these pax purchased drinks?

 

Its unfortunate for all that we are in such a difficult economic situation - I personally don't believe that all who are threatening to defect, actually will. And if they do, I think they will be back!! And many were already looking at the prices on different lines anyway!!

 

There is also the fact that RCCL have compromised and put on a Lounge with free wine and champers and a 25% discount. Only Princess comes near this and there is nothing free or discounted, just a half-price 'special' drink. There is to be a private breakfast room and a Concierge available on RCCL.

 

As far as Loyalty programmes go, well, we had airmiles galore with American Airlines and whenever we tried to use them, our requested flight was never available anyway!! Never managed to use the airmiles and they lapsed!! Not forever miles - just as RCCL never promised free drinks for ever!!

 

IMHO this was a phenominal perk - too good to be true!! And if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!! Unfortunately, it became a victim of its own success - but it does seem to me that having enjoyed such a great 'perk', its rather disloyal of cruisers who saved a great deal of 'drinking' money in the past, to desert now that the perk has been altered - not completely abolished!! RCCL listened and compromised - something that some seem unable to accept.

 

Losing something valuable is always upsetting - but NOTHING is forever, and the quicker everyone realises this, the better.

[beachbuddy]

Hellosailer,

 

I have a question regarding the ships that currently have a Diamond Lounge (

Freedom Class). Will beer and mixed drinks continue to be served in these Diamond Lounges or will they also be turned into Wine and Champ Lounges??

 

My other question is..........how many cruises have you been on where you experienced the ZOO in the overflow lounge? I've been reading so many post that people say how awful crowded these rooms were, but I can't help wondering how many times they experienced this. Cruises change week to week and the ones I've been on I haven't experienced a problem with overcrowding or over dirinking. Our last 2 cruises were pretty much empty in the overflow lounge. We didn't use the main CL except during the afternoon for coffee so I can't comment on the CL in the evening, but the overflow lounge worked perfectly. You and others have written about how crowded things were and that's why they had to change, however, just as many posters have written that they haven't experienced the crowds on their sailings.

 

Like I said, cruises change week to week......you'll get many different responses even if you ask if it was difficult to find seats in the Windjammer. Some will say "no" and others will say "yes", it was always crowded. Some might say that people just sit there after they eat and don't get up so maybe RCCL should put a cover charge on the Windjammer so it's not so crowded.........hmmmmmmmmm Do you see where I'm going with this? Gee, the Promenade Cafe is like a ZOO sometimes so maybe a surcharge there as well..........maybe just free pizza and sandwiches but a charge for cookies............. we can debate forever and ever about the crowds.

 

The whole point is that RCCL said they did this because of the over crowding, which we alll know was a big stretch of the truth especially since they are still providing a place for Diamonds to meet.

 

I agree with the posters that say a mixed drink (vodka and tonic) (rum and coke), etc and a bottle of beer are no more expensive than a glass of wine.

 

I do understand that what they lose by giving free drinks is revenue from charging for those drinks............but it's not so fair to just offer wine and champ. There are people that can't drink wine for medical reasons, it gives them terrible migraines. Maybe a good suggestion is to give 2 drink coupons per day to all Diamonds like a few others mentioned..........maybe give them a card that gets punched.........or paper coupons. If they did that people would feel better about the changes.

 

I'm not getting into a pissing fight with anyone on this thread, but I truly do feel that they had to cut back but I think they're doing it the wrong way and they're losing a lot of customer loyalty.

[Benita]

Beachbuddy, We sail on the Radiance Class ships a great deal and during the day, the lounge is quiet with a few cappuchino drinkers. At happy hour, the CL has uniformly been a zoo, with a long line of people waiting for drinks, all seats taken and no room to move around. We try to stop by almost every night, but take one look at the mess inside and leave. The Enchantment has a much larger lounge and it is not as bad, but still not very comfortable. The only place where we have been able to comfortably partake is on the Freedom class. The Diamond lounge is great during the day and the disco was used for the 5-8:30 bar and it was usually filled with people, but there was enough seating.

I agree that RCL has to clear out the CL somewhat in the evenings and obviously cutting out the Diamond members has to be the way to go. The obvious answer is to take one of the underutilized bars or meeting rooms and use that for the evening happy hour for them, which from the sounds of it, RCL is doing. People are unhappy because they will no longer get free mixed drinks in the new bar area.

[ScarboroughCruiser]

Diamond members currently only have access to the Diamond Lounge on the ships that have them (Freedom, Liberty, Independence at this point and Oasis and Allure once they sail)... no Concierge Lounge access... that's always been the case, so there's no change there.

 

Thanks for your reply. But now I'm confused about the D+'s. Do they have access now and/or will they have access after Sept 1 to the Concierge Lounge? If the D/D+ are allocated exclusive access to the Diamond Lounge (and not the Concierge Lounge) on all Freedom (and up) class ships and this has always been the case, this whole discussion about D/D+ changes seems to apply only to the fleets smaller ships. I scratch my head on this controversy because when I was on the Seranade last year, I walked by the Concierge Lounge often (my cabin was nearby), and it seemed almost always empty.

[KimberlyBear]

I do try and see both sides - I am very sympathetic to the disappointment of Diamonds who have lost the CL facility - but I also see that RCCL HAD to do something about the overcrowding - at times, it was a total zoo!! They received many complaints from Suite Guests who pay through the nose for extra amenities - and its only on RCCL that the CL is open to non-suitees!!! On all other lines, you want the use of a Concierge Lounge, you have to book a suite!!

 

I think for RCCL it was a no-win situation. I was on the Navigator a couple of years ago, when they were clearing up after the freebie pm - the rows of empty bottles of liquor was unbelievable and that was without the satellite lounge consumption. And what about the loss of revenue, had these pax purchased drinks?

 

Its unfortunate for all that we are in such a difficult economic situation - I personally don't believe that all who are threatening to defect, actually will. And if they do, I think they will be back!! And many were already looking at the prices on different lines anyway!!

 

There is also the fact that RCCL have compromised and put on a Lounge with free wine and champers and a 25% discount. Only Princess comes near this and there is nothing free or discounted, just a half-price 'special' drink. There is to be a private breakfast room and a Concierge available on RCCL.

 

As far as Loyalty programmes go, well, we had airmiles galore with American Airlines and whenever we tried to use them, our requested flight was never available anyway!! Never managed to use the airmiles and they lapsed!! Not forever miles - just as RCCL never promised free drinks for ever!!

 

IMHO this was a phenominal perk - too good to be true!! And if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!! Unfortunately, it became a victim of its own success - but it does seem to me that having enjoyed such a great 'perk', its rather disloyal of cruisers who saved a great deal of 'drinking' money in the past, to desert now that the perk has been altered - not completely abolished!! RCCL listened and compromised - something that some seem unable to accept.

 

Losing something valuable is always upsetting - but NOTHING is forever, and the quicker everyone realises this, the better.

 

That is so well put and I think you hit the nail on the head. I am a suite holder who has been rather dissappointed the last several cruises due to the overcrowding. As you put it - "it was a zoo" sums it up rather well.

[Catnip]

Beachbuddy, We sail on the Radiance Class ships a great deal and during the day, the lounge is quiet with a few cappuchino drinkers. At happy hour, the CL has uniformly been a zoo, with a long line of people waiting for drinks, all seats taken and no room to move around. We try to stop by almost every night, but take one look at the mess inside and leave.

 

I have found this to be true on Brilliance & Jewel for the past several years. That's why I don't even go there anymore.....way too crowded.

[misskitty2]

My husband and I have been cruising for decades, and are closing in on Diamond Plus with RCCL. Somehow, we've missed the boat (excuse me!) on the perks one can or could ask for when booking. Would someone be kind enough to list them for us? Many thanks.

[misskitty2]

My husband and I have been cruising for decades, and are closing in on Diamond Plus with RCCL. Somehow, we've missed the boat (excuse me!) on the perks one can or could ask for when booking. Would someone be kind enough to list them for us? Many thanks.

[slk230red]

I have really enjoyed the Diamond level and appreciate what RCI has provided for us loyal passengers. When we visit the Diamond Lounge, we talk to other D/D+ members and talk about past cruises as well as future cruises. Because of that, we always end up booking a future cruise or 2 at the Future Cruise Desk.

My opinion is this...Due to the success of the Crown and Anchor Society, it appears that it has become too successful and the good perks won't last much longer. By the time we reach D+ level, the private lounges (Diamond or Concierge), won't be able to accommodate the large numbers of loyal passengers.

Will these future changes stop me from cruising on RCI? No. Will I miss the Diamond Lounge? YES!!! Life is full of changes and you just move on.

In the mean time, I'll be cruising on the Freedom class ships and looking forward to the Oasis next year.

[sealord]

Your comments also are, in a way, in agreement with those who are opposed to the RC reductions of promised Concierge privileges. These people are not only arguing against RC Concierge privilege reductions, they are also arguing that the loyalty they have shown to Royal Caribbean has now been disregarded by Royal Caribbean. They are both angry and saddened by RC breaking a promise about diamond privileges. Now before you jump on this, I do not believe anyone here doubts the legal right for RC to do so, but having the legal right does not make it right. Whether the focus is on free drinks or socializing opportunities, or both, cruisers loyal to Royal Caribbean feel betrayed. If you and others so vehement against those opposing the changes cannot understand this, I believe you have a problem emphasizing (empathizing?)with others.

 

During my short two year active duty tour, all required of ROTC at the time, as a young U.S.A.F. officer years ago, I learned that loyalty must be both ways, both up and down. My son, out of NROTC much more recently, learned the same.

 

Yes, it is sad that loyalty seems to be a vanishing concept. But this does not mean that loyalty is not of value. I believe it means that far too much emphasis is placed on the economic short term, at the expense of the long term.

 

RCL has always traded at lower share price than CCL in terms of P/E ratio, because they are significantly smaller. Perhaps RCL needs to keep its loyalty programs to avoid having its shares trade even lower compared to CCL.

 

My belief that RC is losing more than it gains by their Concierge, and other restrictive decisions, has been voiced often. I and my DW may or may not cruise again on RC or any other line. As I have explained before, we and others have many other travel options.

 

We are over 70 and thus denigrated by a few asses, not you, on this and other threads as being old and too set in our ways. But let me inform those who do so, with age comes wisdom. We have much.

 

Bob :cool:

 

Great post Bob. Perhaps those without 'your' experience cannot 'empathize' with those who feel they have been betrayed by a 'disloyal' corporation. And perhaps that is part of why I am so annoyed by it. Your post makes it quite clear to me, that many simply don't understand what loyalty is about. Loyalty is the first thing my drill instructor instilled in my officer candidate class in Pensacola. Loyalty was about succeeding together, winning together, or failing together ... but no one was left behind. RCCL does not know what loyalty is about either. It is more than a marketing tool, only to be cast asside when it becomes inconvenient. Once these rewards were 'earned', they became a cost of doing business. "Compromise" is a word that has been tossed about here, as well. There was no compromise here. Compromise implies an agreement between two parties. This was simply a 'take it or leave it'. And, by the way, you can always charge more for the best. Have you noticed that it is not the BMW and Mercedes dealers that have closed in this recession. It is those who offer lesser products. RCCL appears intent on making itself into a 'lesser' product.

[hellosailer]

Hellosailer,

 

I have a question regarding the ships that currently have a Diamond Lounge (

Freedom Class). Will beer and mixed drinks continue to be served in these Diamond Lounges or will they also be turned into Wine and Champ Lounges?? Well, the way I read it, things stay the same on the Freedom class and Oasis. There is a separate Lounge for Diamonds on there anyway and it looks like the drinks will remain the same as in the past, i.e. free liquor etc. But I have no way of knowing this - just what I read on here!!

 

My other question is..........how many cruises have you been on where you experienced the ZOO in the overflow lounge? I've been reading so many post that people say how awful crowded these rooms were, but I can't help wondering how many times they experienced this. Cruises change week to week and the ones I've been on I haven't experienced a problem with overcrowding or over dirinking. Our last 2 cruises were pretty much empty in the overflow lounge. We didn't use the main CL except during the afternoon for coffee so I can't comment on the CL in the evening, but the overflow lounge worked perfectly. You and others have written about how crowded things were and that's why they had to change, however, just as many posters have written that they haven't experienced the crowds on their sailings. Well, we cruise four or five times a year - and it is very rare that we have been able to use the Lounge between 5.00 and 8.00!!! Everyone seems to prefer to cram into the CL!!! On the transatlantics it is more than a zoo - its total insanity!!!

 

Like I said, cruises change week to week......you'll get many different responses even if you ask if it was difficult to find seats in the Windjammer. Some will say "no" and others will say "yes", it was always crowded. Some might say that people just sit there after they eat and don't get up so maybe RCCL should put a cover charge on the Windjammer so it's not so crowded.........hmmmmmmmmm Do you see where I'm going with this? Gee, the Promenade Cafe is like a ZOO sometimes so maybe a surcharge there as well..........maybe just free pizza and sandwiches but a charge for cookies............. we can debate forever and ever about the crowds. The difference is that this is a supposedly up-scale area provided as an amenity for the Suite Guests. When they enter and find it crammed to the gills, they are understandably upset, having paid through the nose!!! IMHO the loyalty scheme is a victim of its own success.

 

The whole point is that RCCL said they did this because of the over crowding, which we alll know was a big stretch of the truth especially since they are still providing a place for Diamonds to meet. Precisely - this now leaves the Concierge Lounge for the Suite Guests and, at present, D+, whilst giving the Diamonds their own Lounge for pre-dinner drinks.

 

I agree with the posters that say a mixed drink (vodka and tonic) (rum and coke), etc and a bottle of beer are no more expensive than a glass of wine. But it is easy to pour a couple of trays of wine and champers. The individual requirements need staff - and this costs!!!

 

I do understand that what they lose by giving free drinks is revenue from charging for those drinks............but it's not so fair to just offer wine and champ. There are people that can't drink wine for medical reasons, it gives them terrible migraines. Maybe a good suggestion is to give 2 drink coupons per day to all Diamonds like a few others mentioned..........maybe give them a card that gets punched.........or paper coupons. If they did that people would feel better about the changes. We don't drink and are content to buy if we don't like free offerings - always have done!!! Can't see that this is any different. None of the other cruise lines give us ANY drinks for free!!

 

I'm not getting into a pissing fight with anyone on this thread, but I truly do feel that they had to cut back but I think they're doing it the wrong way and they're losing a lot of customer loyalty. You may be right there, although I doubt this - I think that in the present economic situation, many loyal RCCL cruisers are looking at cheaper options - nothing to do with perks!!!!

 

I am not unsympathetic - I hate the drinks at their parties, so don't drink them!!! I think that many Diamonds WILL miss the CL and its quite understandable that they are aggravated. But.......nothing is forever - especially loyalty programmes!!! This one was unfortunately, just TOO successful!!

[elleluv]

I have a question regarding the ships that currently have a Diamond Lounge (Freedom Class). Will beer and mixed drinks continue to be served in these Diamond Lounges or will they also be turned into Wine and Champ Lounges??

 

Good question... I guess this remains to be seen... I wasn't envisioning them making a change here, but it really isn't addressed in AG's letter...

 

My other question is..........how many cruises have you been on where you experienced the ZOO in the overflow lounge? I've been reading so many post that people say how awful crowded these rooms were, but I can't help wondering how many times they experienced this. Cruises change week to week and the ones I've been on I haven't experienced a problem with overcrowding or over dirinking. Our last 2 cruises were pretty much empty in the overflow lounge. We didn't use the main CL except during the afternoon for coffee so I can't comment on the CL in the evening, but the overflow lounge worked perfectly. You and others have written about how crowded things were and that's why they had to change, however, just as many posters have written that they haven't experienced the crowds on their sailings.

 

We've been averaging 5-6 cruises a year the last few years and with the exception of a 7 night on Liberty that we did in September, every single one of them has fallen into the category of the CL/lounge being a zoo IMO...

 

I've been very surprised to hear others say that they haven't experienced this on their recent cruises... based on our experience, I really thought this was pretty much always the case.

 

We tend to go on longer cruises which probably attract more experienced cruiser and I'm sure that's the reason.... most seem to have 300-500 D/D+ guests on board which I really do believe are too many to effectively manage even with the overflow lounge.

 

I'm not at all happy about the changes, we've really enjoyed the lounge; but I do agree that something definitely had to be done. I'm ok with the compromise... it doesn't matter to us what we're drinking as long as we've got the opportunity to socialize with our friends.

[elleluv]

My husband and I have been cruising for decades, and are closing in on Diamond Plus with RCCL. Somehow, we've missed the boat (excuse me!) on the perks one can or could ask for when booking. Would someone be kind enough to list them for us? Many thanks.

 

 

misskitty, here's a link to the C&A page which lists the benefits... hope this helps...

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/cas/benefitsLoggedout.do;jsessionid=0000zLsNRPrNOBjjJ5RAua0xkuG:12hdhu87a?cS=NAVBAR

[constantcruiser]

Last night I had a VM message from Adam Goldstein's assistant saying they wanted to talk to me about changes in the C&A program. I assumed the call was in response to my second letter, which I addressed to a member of RCI's Board of Directors & cc'd Goldstein & Fain. She called again early this morning, and gave obviously well-rehearsed comments about how much RCI values its repeat passengers & how hard they're trying to please them.

 

I politely reminded her that Goldstein first announced the reason for denying diamonds access to the CL was to avoid overcrowding...and only after RCI was flooded with complaints, did he come back and say they've suddenly found space for anyone who is willing to pay 75% of the regular price of drinks. She immediately went into a long defensive monologue about how RCI management is honest & would never try to deceive their loyal customers (interestingly, I had never hinted that I thought they weren't!).

 

She did specifically ask if I have canceled any cruises because of this change in policy and how it might impact my decisions in the future. I told her what I've told everyone else who's asked me about RCI lately...all of their recent cutbacks have leveled the playing field, and they'll now have to compete with other lines for my business.

 

When she asked what changes they could make that would cause me to reconsider, I told her the only way RCI could be sure I would sail exclusively with them again would be to keep a ship in Galveston year-round and to grandfather in all C&A members with the benefits they've already earned. She promised to relay my comments to Goldstein immediately. Oh yeah, like he hasn't heard that before....

[hellosailer]

I am not unsympathetic - I hate the drinks at their parties, so don't drink them!!! I think that many Diamonds WILL miss the CL and its quite understandable that they are aggravated. But.......nothing is forever - especially loyalty programmes!!! This one was unfortunately, just TOO successful!!

 

 

I just want to stress that when I post, its just my own opinion. I don't have any 'inside' information, I am not a Champion and have never been asked!! I did have a major disagreement with Celebrity - and changed to RCCL. (I know its the same holding Company!).

 

RCCL is obviously concerned at losing customers - but as far as the CL and loyalty programme is concerned, it's just not working any more!! Changes were expected and now they have arrived - not a shock to those of us who cruise frequently.

 

Its the old story - can't please all of the people, all of the time!! Only some of the people, some of the time!!

[sealord]

Last night I had a VM message from Adam Goldstein's assistant saying they wanted to talk to me about changes in the C&A program. I assumed the call was in response to my second letter, which I addressed to a member of RCI's Board of Directors & cc'd Goldstein & Fain. She called again early this morning, and gave obviously well-rehearsed comments about how much RCI values its repeat passengers & how hard they're trying to please them.

 

I politely reminded her that Goldstein first announced the reason for denying diamonds access to the CL was to avoid overcrowding...and only after RCI was flooded with complaints, did he come back and say they've suddenly found space for anyone who is willing to pay 75% of the regular price of drinks. She immediately went into a long defensive monologue about how RCI management is honest & would never try to deceive their loyal customers (interestingly, I had never hinted that I thought they weren't!).

 

She did specifically ask if I have canceled any cruises because of this change in policy and how it might impact my decisions in the future. I told her what I've told everyone else who's asked me about RCI lately...all of their recent cutbacks have leveled the playing field, and they'll now have to compete with other lines for my business.

 

When she asked what changes they could make that would cause me to reconsider, I told her the only way RCI could be sure I would sail exclusively with them again would be to keep a ship in Galveston year-round and to grandfather in all C&A members with the benefits they've already earned. She promised to relay my comments to Goldstein immediately. Oh yeah, like he hasn't heard that before....

 

Good for you. I'm glad you are also not listening to those who have said, "Why don't you just go away and shut up? The modified benefits are fine." They are not 'fine' with me either. I've only done two cruises on RCCL as a Diamond (part of the reason for my ire, no doubt), and they both had overflow lounges. They worked just fine, and we left the CL to the others on most evenings. We always do late seating, however, and we did find the CL fairly empty after main seating began. That being said, it sometimes did look like a 'rock concert' had preceded us, so we would then go to the overflow lounge anyway. I did in fact suggest in a 'requested' critique that a 'full time' assistant for the Concierge during the evening happy hour would make things better.

 

I also wrote a 'letter' to the management, but I only received the 'first' form letter in return.

[hellosailer]

Good for you. I'm glad you are also not listening to those who have said, "Why don't you just go away and shut up? The modified benefits are fine." They are not 'fine' with me either. I've only done two cruises on RCCL as a Diamond (part of the reason for my ire, no doubt), and they both had overflow lounges. They worked just fine, and we left the CL to the others on most evenings. We always do late seating, however, and we did find the CL fairly empty after main seating began. That being said, it sometimes did look like a 'rock concert' had preceded us, so we would then go to the overflow lounge anyway. I did in fact suggest in a 'requested' critique that a 'full time' assistant for the Concierge during the evening happy hour would make things better. A full-time assistant? At the busiest time for the Food and Beverage Department? To supply free drinks? We must be on different planets - they are running a business!!! There are NO spare staff at that time - the waiters are run off their feet!! You are so wound up by it all that you are just not seeing that the CL is an amenity for SUITE passengers, first and foremost!! It is supposed to be an upscale amenity in keeping with the high prices they are paying - not, as you so rightly say 'a rock concert'.

 

I also wrote a 'letter' to the management, but I only received the 'first' form letter in return.

 

Well, possibly they know your views from reading them on here!!:D:D

[elleluv]

She immediately went into a long defensive monologue about how RCI management is honest & would never try to deceive their loyal customers (interestingly, I had never hinted that I thought they weren't!).

 

I don't doubt that you were polite to the young lady that called, but I find this next statement of yours to be in direct conflict with the highlighted portion above....

 

I politely reminded her that Goldstein first announced the reason for denying diamonds access to the CL was to avoid overcrowding...and only after RCI was flooded with complaints, did he come back and say they've suddenly found space for anyone who is willing to pay 75% of the regular price of drinks.

 

If you were talking to me, I would have definitely taken this as an indication that you thought they were being less than honest....

[sculptress]

Your comments also are, in a way, in agreement with those who are opposed to the RC reductions of promised Concierge privileges. These people are not only arguing against RC Concierge privilege reductions, they are also arguing that the loyalty they have shown to Royal Caribbean has now been disregarded by Royal Caribbean. They are both angry and saddened by RC breaking a promise about diamond privileges. Now before you jump on this, I do not believe anyone here doubts the legal right for RC to do so, but having the legal right does not make it right. Whether the focus is on free drinks or socializing opportunities, or both, cruisers loyal to Royal Caribbean feel betrayed. If you and others so vehement against those opposing the changes cannot understand this, I believe you have a problem emphasizing with others.

 

During my short two year active duty tour, all required of ROTC at the time, as a young U.S.A.F. officer years ago, I learned that loyalty must be both ways, both up and down. My son, out of NROTC much more recently, learned the same.

 

Yes, it is sad that loyalty seems to be a vanishing concept. But this does not mean that loyalty is not of value. I believe it means that far too much emphasis is placed on the economic short term, at the expense of the long term.

 

RCL has always traded at lower share price than CCL in terms of P/E ratio, because they are significantly smaller. Perhaps RCL needs to keep its loyalty programs to avoid having its shares trade even lower compared to CCL.

 

My belief that RC is losing more than it gains by their Concierge, and other restrictive decisions, has been voiced often. I and my DW may or may not cruise again on RC or any other line. As I have explained before, we and others have many other travel options.

 

We are over 70 and thus denigrated by a few asses, not you, on this and other threads as being old and too set in our ways. But let me inform those who do so, with age comes wisdom. We have much.

 

Bob :cool:

 

Thank you Bob for explaining so well to some on this thread who needed it the meaning of Loyalty. My husband and I are long time Diamond members on RCCL and also agree with you, like you say so well, "with age comes wisdom". ;)