Jones Act Question

[dropanchor]

The fine and onus is on the passenger, if you sail and breach the Jones Act in Canada the fine is between 3000-5000 PER PERSON as I understand it. The fine is charged to your on board account and is imposed by tas this expample by the Canadian Gov and it is the cruiseline responsabilty to recieve it and pay it via those means

A cruiseline will not book seperate blocks, the troulbe seems to come from Travel Agents who do not know the act..and there is MANY ! and they will book segments rather than blocking them all together and it is not until you are in the final segments that the cruiseline sees that they should have been blocked and exposed.

The real question is do you have any recouse against a Travel Agent who intentionally or not takes your money and earns commissons on such cruises.

I ran into this situation only a few weeks ago on a cruise our of FLL and up to Whittier however my Travel Agent did KNEW of the act and said that I should not do the entire trip as such. In addition, when she advised Princess of the over all cruise Princess would not take the booking without signed agreement that I was prepared to pay the fine so I think it really gets back to having a good travel agent who knows the game and not one that is simply in their for your money

hope this helps some- Bruce:)

[Pam in CA]

You are right in that some TAs are not very good and don't know about the PVSA (it's not the Jones Act, which is for merchant marines.) That's why it's important to find a TA who books a lot of cruises and is familiar with the PVSA.

[Pam in CA]

I thought that I read that the cruise line is subject to the fine, not the passenger, or is my old memory just getting worse? But that would make sense since they should be the most familiar with these issues.

Yes, the cruiseline is subject to the fine; they pass on the $300 fine and any others incurred by the passenger(s).

[paul929207]

You are right in that some TAs are not very good and don't know about the PVSA (it's not the Jones Act, which is for merchant marines.) That's why it's important to find a TA who books a lot of cruises and is familiar with the PVSA.

TA's are like all other professions. There are good ones and unfortunately, there are some not so good ones.

[dropanchor]

TA's are like all other professions. There are good ones and unfortunately, there are some not so good ones.

 

I TOTALLY agree with you Paul:), however there is no more isolation in this world than if you are on a cruise ship miles from home or shipboard and with marine telephone rates and something goes wrong that was the fault of a sloppy commission TA. As mentioned, mine is fanstasic ;)and has her eye on the ball at all times and know's customer service well in addtion to her industry knowlegde- certainly didnt mean to rattle any TA who does know their industry,it was more a statement of KNOW ;)who you are dealing with as there are many choices

 

You are right in that some TAs are not very good and don't know about the PVSA (it's not the Jones Act, which is for merchant marines.) That's why it's important to find a TA who books a lot of cruises and is familiar with the PVSA

 

You are correct in what you have posted Pam, HOWEVER it is commonly called the Jones Act maybe to keep it simple my referance ( last week only) we had 2 captains on Island ( 1 FLL-LA and then 1-LA -Whittier) and at the table on each cruise both men used the terminolgy of the "Jones Act" as did Princess H/O so maybe its better to know what they use as well,and as the name of the thread applies, as for the fines.... I would look into each country's fine charges, certainly Canada has no hesitation in imposing the heafty fine. Bruce

[paul929207]

Many countries have laws similar to PVSA and the Jones Act. These laws are intended to protect the shipping industry in the country. Similar laws prohibit foriegn airlines from carrying passengers between two points in a counrty. So for instance,British Air cannot carry passengers from St. Louis to Seattle.

[caa]

I ran into this situation only a few weeks ago on a cruise our of FLL and up to Whittier however my Travel Agent did KNEW of the act and said that I should not do the entire trip as such. In addition, when she advised Princess of the over all cruise Princess would not take the booking without signed agreement that I was prepared to pay the fine so I think it really gets back to having a good travel agent who knows the game and not one that is simply in their for your money

hope this helps some- Bruce:)

 

Why would there be a problem cruising from Fort Lauderdale to Whittier? If your first segment was Fort Lauderdale to L.A. then you had to stop at a distant foreign port in the Netherlands Antilles or South America. Once you've done that, you should be able to stay on the ship to any other American port, even if it makes a stop in Canada on the way.

[Av8tor]

The fine and onus is on the passenger, if you sail and breach the Jones Act in Canada the fine is between 3000-5000 PER PERSON as I understand it. The fine is charged to your on board account and is imposed by tas this expample by the Canadian Gov and it is the cruiseline responsabilty to recieve it and pay it via those means

- Bruce:)

 

Bruce,

 

Where did you get the 3000-5000 per person figure? That's 10 times higher than any amount I've previously seen.

 

Also, The PSVA and/or Jones Act is US law, not Canadian. Why and how would the Canadian government get involved as you stated?

[paul929207]

I don't know about the fine amounts in Canada, but many countries have laws similar to the US PVSA.

[DanJ]

Why would there be a problem cruising from Fort Lauderdale to Whittier? If your first segment was Fort Lauderdale to L.A. then you had to stop at a distant foreign port in the Netherlands Antilles or South America. Once you've done that, you should be able to stay on the ship to any other American port, even if it makes a stop in Canada on the way.

 

 

Yes you could do that. It would likely be a 3 segment journey, unless it went all the way up to Vancouver from FLL on one cruise, which some repositionings do. If the first segment ended in LA, then the next would have to go to Vancouver for PVSA reasons, and then they can run up to Whittier on the third segment. But they could offer a single itinerary FLL-Whittier so long as they made that stop in Aruba or Cartegena or another qualifying port in that area on the way by.

[Av8tor]

Wiki doesn't give you all the facts. Since the OP would be embarking in a U.S. port and disembarking in a U.S. port, it does apply, regardless of whether or not they leave one ship and board another so the OP would be in violation of the PVSA. If they stay over one night, i.e., "stay" in Vancouver, and board another ship the next day, they would be OK. If they disembark one ship and board another the same day without "staying," they would be in violation since technically, they'd be embarking and disembarking in the U.S.

 

Just to end the speculation once and for all...

 

I called Princess and VERIFIED that the PVSA (or PSA as they clled it) is definately "SHIP SPECIFIC."

 

You can go from 1 US port to another US port IF you switch ships in a foreign port. Yo do NOT have to overnight in the foreign port and you do NOT have to switch cruise lines. Just changing ships will make the two cruises "legal."

 

 

Woo Hoo!! SEA-YVR (Star) and YVR-LAX (Coral) here I come!!!

[LARGIN]

Just to end the speculation once and for all...

 

I called Princess and VERIFIED that the PVSA (or PSA as they clled it) is definately "SHIP SPECIFIC."

 

You can go from 1 US port to another US port IF you switch ships in a foreign port. Yo do NOT have to overnight in the foreign port and you do NOT have to switch cruise lines. Just changing ships will make the two cruises "legal."

 

 

Woo Hoo!! SEA-YVR (Star) and YVR-LAX (Coral) here I come!!!

You might want to talk to a supervisor not a Princess CSR who is probably a high school student working there for the summer to verify.. :D

[Cuizer2]

Just to end the speculation once and for all...

 

I called Princess and VERIFIED that the PVSA (or PSA as they clled it) is definately "SHIP SPECIFIC."

 

You can go from 1 US port to another US port IF you switch ships in a foreign port. Yo do NOT have to overnight in the foreign port and you do NOT have to switch cruise lines. Just changing ships will make the two cruises "legal."

 

 

Woo Hoo!! SEA-YVR (Star) and YVR-LAX (Coral) here I come!!!

Yes, this is correct. The PVSA restriction applies to the ship - not to the cruise line has a whole.

[VibeGuy]

PVSA definitely does not apply to "tail-to-tail" transfers between two hulls, even of the same line. One of these days, I'll do a website that will walk through the decision tree to see if a given itinerary is PVSA-compliant.

[Av8tor]

You might want to talk to a supervisor not a Princess CSR who is probably a high school student working there for the summer to verify.. :D

 

The CSRs pulled up a special screen that shows which combination of voyage numbers violates the PSA. If the voyage numbers you are interested in do not appear on this screen, they do not violate the PSA.

 

For instance, voyages 9932 and 9933 (Star 9/20 SEA-YVR and Star 9/21 YVR-SFO) appear on the PSA violation screen. My voyages, 9932 and 6931, do not show up as violations.

 

Viola, no need to check with a supervisor, it's all been automated, but if you're not sure, you do need to remember to ask the CSR to check that screen!