Curious.... who is still going to add on an extra tip (bar or specialty)

[quote name='punkincc']Well, since everyone else seems to have gone for dinner....

You have not said which ship you booked. NCL a has great entertainment options, mostly free. Only the Epic, Breakaway, Getaway and Escape have any entertainment with a fee and that is only one dinner show on each ship. Plenty of other shows to see if you don't wish to pay extra. Of course, things like Bingo will have an additional fee just like any other cruise ships. NCL a has more choices in dining, including free dining venues. There are many Specialty venues for a small cover fee, well worth the charge, but many are happy with the included venues. An 18% auto grat has just been added, very controversial at the moment. Drinks will have an auto grat added just like any other ship. You can estimate your bar costs based on the drink prices and how much you usually drink.

You also did not say if you purchased or got free with the booking any of the Promo offers like included Dining Package (UDP) or Drinks Package (UBP) or if you purchased them. If purchased, any auto grats were included with the purchase price and you will not pay additional once on board. If you got them free, you still will not pay additional for the auto grats. No need to tip further for meals or drinks unless you feel the need.

The Daily Service Charge (unless you pre pay it) is added to your account daily and goes into an incentive pool for all staff like room stewards and servers and behind the scenes staff. You can tip additionally if you wish, but according to NCL it is not expected.

The food quality in in free dining rooms is very good. Lots of people don't spend an extra dime on the ship.[/QUOTE]


Thanks Brenda yes we are on the Gem and yes we got the UDP and already prepaid our gratuity, it's not really the extras I'm worried about its more the discussion you all are talking about, and I have done enough reading that I have an idea but this is again why I like this post. We all know this discussion is always all over the place with opnions for or against ( either on cruise ships or AI) but it's nice to hear feedback on what others commonly do just to get an idea. Really wasn't askng any question on the topic just saying it is helpful to those like my self cruising for the first time on NCL.

Yes, we all went to the buffet together. You missed it![emoji23]

[quote name='Leavethekidswithmom']Yes, we all went to the buffet together. You missed it![emoji23][/QUOTE]

Darn! Did you remember to tip the bussers?:D

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Bottom line is, it is really no one's business what someone else does with their money and I personally would feel quite disingenuous if I question what someone does with their money, because I don't want someone questioning me on what I do with mine.[/QUOTE]

Yep. Its bizarre that this is something that people feel strongly about, particularly since we're not talking about stiffing the staff, but rather going above and beyond that which is required.

What I find interesting in all this is the widespread notion that for some reason tipping was required or expected in the specialty restaurants (prior to the auto-"gratuities" that were just added). They weren't. NCL said so, and taking care of tipping in the specialties was the exact stated reason DSC was instituted in the first place.

While many on these threads say they "always" tipped in the specialties, my guess is that this is a "culture" that has grown up over time, AND was by no means universal. My guess is that many specialty diners continued to accept NCL's premise that all "tips," INCLUDING for specialty dining, were covered by DSC, and did not tip any extra.

As evidenced by the numerous threads and posts on "the suite life," I think it's fair to say that "the well-heeled" are over-represented on CC. (Of course, YMMV!!) So while one might get the impression from reading these threads that "everybody tipped at the specialties," I really don't think that's true. I think many cruisers will recognize this for what it is, a pretty significant price hike, and not merely an auto-"gratuity" of 18 percent replacing the cash tips of 15-20 percent they never left.

To be clear, finally. Prior to a week ago, NCL claimed that wait staff in the specialties were covered under DSC. No extra tips were expected.

[quote name='Cauzneffct']Yep. Its bizarre that this is something that people feel strongly about, particularly since we're not talking about stiffing the staff, but rather going above and beyond that which is required.[/QUOTE]

Well, you really have to put this whole topic into context. I have no issue with those who want to reward someone who in their opinion has gone over and above. But I would like some clarity from NCL re their current philosophy on tipping and the Daily Service Charge.

NCL always said restaurant wait staff, along with most other staff, were included in the Daily Service Charge pool used to fund incentive programs which, along with salary, made up the pay for these folks. This was to eliminate the need for "tipping". Per NCL, "While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile" so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them."

NCL very recently increased the DSC amount. Then, in the next breath, they instituted an 18% auto gratuity in specialties with NO ANNOUNCENENT or explaination whatsoever. How does this 18% auto gratuity fit in with the fact that we have already taken care of the gratuity in the DSC and now they are adding a second 18% one, and by the way, what happened to "you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity"? If an auto add of 18% is not obligatory, I don't know what is.

Many feel like some of the staff may be "double dipping", or perhaps even "triple dipping" since some passengers feel a compulsion to leave additional money on top of DSC and 18% auto grat. It just seems like a devious underhanded way to wring more money out of the passengers and it does not make sense coupled with NCL's own statements and philosophy regarding how staff is compensated and the assurance that in their own words,"there is no required or recommended tipping". That seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth at the same time, IMO.

I am and always will be a generous tipper"...BUT when a tip is "solicited" that's when I take my hand out of my pocket...NCL or NO Cash Left is becoming everything in a cruise line I dislike...I have been a loyal cruiser with only NCL for the past 7 years and will re-think what we'll do after our next booked cruise has come and gone...Used to be a "no-brainier" to sail with NCL, now they've given me too much too think about before I "sail"...
Somebody has to re-think this double dipping "gratuity crap", call it what you want, nothing changes, was your money, now its "theirs"...Truth is NCL should be paying the crew out of their own pockets not mine...
Rob

[quote name='roboclam']I am and always will be a generous tipper"...BUT when a tip is "solicited" that's when I take my hand out of my pocket Rob[/QUOTE]So I guess you've always deleted the automatic gratuity from the bar servers.

I guess I should have said I do not like being asked for "additional" tips when on my own I am more than generous...I/we have never not given the "expected" gratuity, its the "extra service charges" that do appear to be double dipping to some degree that bothers me...To be clear, we have paid the 15% bar tips and have never not paid the DSC...We always take care of those who take care of us...Just don't ask me or demand that I do...I find the whole thing to be very frustrating and not Pleasurable any longer...

[quote name='NLH Arizona']So I guess you've always deleted the automatic gratuity from the bar servers.[/QUOTE]

edited Edited March 23, 2015 by swedish weave

I know you can not be speaking about me here...???

My thoughts were the same as yours as per the post...I do not come here to fight or piss anybody off so its just...

I may be a minority view here, but I have expected the standard service charge to include stateroom service and standard dining room and buffet dining. That's it.

So in my view, adding 18% to the beverage package is appropriate, since I would have tipped if I were buying a la carte. Adding 18% to the specialty dining fees or UDP is also appropriate, since that reflects the higher cost of those meals, and the gratuity should also be higher - a combination of the part from the standard service charge, and a part from the upcharge. Hopefully the service level matches that extra costs.

[quote name='PelicanBill']\ Adding 18% to the specialty dining fees or UDP is also appropriate, since that reflects the higher cost of those meals, and the gratuity should also be higher - a combination of the part from the standard service charge, and a part from the upcharge. Hopefully the service level matches that extra costs.[/quote]
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever especially since NCL always stated that all servers were included in DSC.

I would hope the service level matches the extra costs. I remain a skeptic.

[quote name='LMaxwell']That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever especially since NCL always stated that all servers were included in DSC.

I would hope the service level matches the extra costs. I remain a skeptic.[/QUOTE]

Let me try to be clearer. If you don't use specialty dining think of your dining as an overall flat rate. the DSC is added to your cruise fare to cover the gratuity for all servers for that level of dining.

If you choose to buy up to one or more specialty restaurants, you are paying more for your meal. Just as in a land restaurant, if you pay more for the meal then you pay more of a gratuity. So you need to add gratuity to the specialty restaurant charge. It would certainly be simpler if they simply increased the prices on those (again!) and said service charge included.

But here's the rub - the specialty dining servers better be getting more gratuity working there. I am going to ask if that is true next week. If they are simply collecting it for the pool and spreading it out to all servers then there is no incentive to provide service that excels in the specialty venues.

[quote name='PelicanBill']I may be a minority view here, but I have expected the standard service charge to include stateroom service and standard dining room and buffet dining. That's it.

So in my view, adding 18% to the beverage package is appropriate, since I would have tipped if I were buying a la carte. Adding 18% to the specialty dining fees or UDP is also appropriate, since that reflects the higher cost of those meals, and the gratuity should also be higher - a combination of the part from the standard service charge, and a part from the upcharge. Hopefully the service level matches that extra costs.[/QUOTE]


Well, then you never really read NCL's information on the Daily Service Charge which was always very clear that it covered restaurant staff, stateroom attendants, and behind the scenes support staff that would be very difficult to tip. It was also very clear on who was excluded from the DSC such as Butlers, Concierge, Bar Staff, Spa Staff, Children's Staff and should be rewarded as those who utilized their services saw fit. There was always a 15%, now 18% auto grat on drinks to take the place of the DSC as those bar staff were never included in it.

There is no mention of "specialty" servers as being included in the very specific list of who is not covered by the DSC. They further stated re tipping: "there is no required or recommending tipping" and .....they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them.

The $30 cover charge in Cagneys should cover the expense to NCL for the venue and the upraded menu. If it does not, then raise the cover. The 18% is described by NCL as an AUTO GRATUITY, which is a "tip" and therefore should go to the server, not NCL. And if the waiter is in the DSC, then why does he require a second mandatory tip? ( and what happened to "there is no required or mandatory tipping"?

So in light of this, why would I, for standard service, assume that I needed to tip additionally in a specialty? I have paid the DSC, which NCL tells me the waiter is included in. Thus he has been "tipped" already. Now, they have tacked on a mandatory 18% auto grat which gives the appearance of double dipping.

Admittedly, I haven't read the thread all the way through, but left to my own devices I'd tip 20% in a bar or restaurant, because the math is easy to figure out. If a cruiseline is going to impose an 18% surcharge/tip, that's okay too, given acceptable service. It all goes on the card, and the difference between 18% and 20% is neglible. It isn't as if I eat in specialty restaurants or drink alcohol all that much, after all. The whole business is pretty much a non-starter for me, and I suspect for many other cruisers. I'm not about to sweat small stuff like this.

Basically, for me at least, the following applies:
Daily service charge: pay that and I'm done
Drink surcharge: pay that and I'm done
Alternative restaurant surcharge: pay that and I'm done
T'aint my business how NCL chooses to divvy up the charges and surcharges. It's still better than the awkward days of handing out envelopes and handshakes like you're Lord of the Manor. Edited March 23, 2015 by buckirj1

[quote name='buckirj1']Admittedly, I haven't read the thread all the way through, but left to my own devices I'd tip 20% in a bar or restaurant, because the math is easy to figure out. If a cruiseline is going to impose an 18% surcharge/tip, that's okay too, given acceptable service. It all goes on the card, and the difference between 18% and 20% is neglible. It isn't as if I eat in specialty restaurants or drink alcohol all that much, after all. The whole business is pretty much a non-starter for me, and I suspect for many other cruisers. I'm not about to sweat small stuff like this.[/QUOTE]

You really should get educated on a few things before you post. It may be a non issue to you, but it is not to most.

Tipping 18 to 20% at home in a bar or restaurant is what most of us do, but on a ship, and NCL in particular, we are charged a Daily Service Charge which is supposed to cover the need for all tips except for a select few staff like bar servers who are not in the DSC pool, but get an auto tip of 18% instead. Anything additional was at your discretion, just like at home, and NCL was very clear that there was no required or recommended tipping over and above the DSC.

NCL has never excluded the specialty servers from the DSC. And now they have added 18% auto tip. So 18% plus whatever they get from DSC, plus maybe people like yourself throw in more cash? Just how much grat does this position require? And no one likes to be told they must tip. Edited March 23, 2015 by punkincc

[quote name='punkincc']Well, then you never really read NCL's information on the Daily Service Charge which was always very clear that it covered restaurant staff, stateroom attendants, and behind the scenes support staff that would be very difficult to tip. It was also very clear on who was excluded from the DSC such as Butlers, Concierge, Bar Staff, Spa Staff, Children's Staff and should be rewarded as those who utilized their services saw fit. There was always a 15%, now 18% auto grat on drinks to take the place of the DSC as those bar staff were never included in it.

There is no mention of "specialty" servers as being included in the very specific list of who is not covered by the DSC. They further stated re tipping: "there is no required or recommending tipping" and .....they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them.

The $30 cover charge in Cagneys should cover the expense to NCL for the venue and the upraded menu. If it does not, then raise the cover. The 18% is described by NCL as an AUTO GRATUITY, which is a "tip" and therefore should go to the server, not NCL. And if the waiter is in the DSC, then why does he require a second mandatory tip? ( and what happened to "there is no required or mandatory tipping"?

So in light of this, why would I, for standard service, assume that I needed to tip additionally in a specialty? I have paid the DSC, which NCL tells me the waiter is included in. Thus he has been "tipped" already. Now, they have tacked on a mandatory 18% auto grat which gives the appearance of double dipping.[/QUOTE]

Think you've said it better than I tried to, makes sense to me...Thank you for explaining this as well as you did...

[quote name='punkincc']You really should get educated on a few things before you post. It may be a non issue to you, but it is not to most.

Tipping 18 to 20% at home in a bar or restaurant is what most of us do, but on a ship, and NCL in particular, we are charged a Daily Service Charge which is supposed to cover the need for all tips except for a select few staff like bar servers who are not in the DSC pool, but get an auto tip of 18% instead. Anything additional was at your discretion, just like at home, and NCL was very clear that there was no required or recommended tipping over and above the DSC.

NCL has never excluded the specialty servers from the DSC. And now they have added 18% auto tip. So 18% plus whatever they get from DSC, plus maybe people like yourself throw in more cash? Just how much grat does this position require? And no one likes to be told they must tip.[/quote]

Again, I get all that...and don't care. I witnessed similar angst when WDW first instituted dining plans, first with tip included, and a year or so later with imposed tipping. A whole bunch of hand-wringing ensued, and absolutely nothing changed because people didn't stop using the plans. Same thing. Didn't care then, don't care now. If it's that big a deal, then vote with your feet and stop eating in the specialties. Problem solved.

[quote name='buckirj1']Again, I get all that...and don't care. I witnessed similar angst when WDW first instituted dining plans, first with tip included, and a year or so later with imposed tipping. A whole bunch of hand-wringing ensued, and absolutely nothing changed because people didn't stop using the plans. Same thing. Didn't care then, don't care now. If it's that big a deal, then vote with your feet and stop eating in the specialties. Problem solved.[/QUOTE]

Well, yes. But in the meantime it will be discussed by those who do care and are impacted by the changes.

But again, if you "don't care" and it doesn't impact you, why post when you haven't even read this thread all the way through nor I guess any of the other ones so that you know what the issues are?

Again, I get all that...and don't care. I witnessed similar angst when WDW first instituted dining plans, first with tip included, and a year or so later with imposed tipping. A whole bunch of hand-wringing ensued, and absolutely nothing changed because people didn't stop using the plans. Same thing. Didn't care then, don't care now. If it's that big a deal, then vote with your feet and stop eating in the specialties. Problem solved.

Was planning to fo that anyway. But I don't want hear people complaining about NCL making too many sale announcements over the loudspeakers regarding the specialty restaurants - which is exactly what's going to happen.

 

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Well, yes. But in the meantime it will be discussed by those who do care and are impacted by the changes.

 

But again, if you "don't care" and it doesn't impact you, why post when you haven't even read this thread all the way through nor I guess any of the other ones so that you know what the issues are?

 

Agreed. People that don't care don't have to discuss it. I am waiting for ncl to provide an explanation of why we are paying twice for this service. I guess that's not going to happen.

 

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Agreed. People that don't care don't have to discuss it...

 

Just providing a differing opinion, another perspective, and a potential solution. That's the entire point of a discussion board. But you can do what you want.

I always give extra for any bar service. Usually $1.00 per drink. Whether it's 15% or 18% doesn't make a difference to me. Even in a restaurant, unless the service is bad, 15% is now at the low end.

I'm in my mid-50s. I've seen what was considered norm tipping go from 10%, then to 12% then to 15%, and now to 18%. That is tipping at land-based places.

 

My thoughts are that 18% is too high. Maybe it's just my age showing!! yikes! who knows...... My thoughts are that 12% seems more what I would consider a tip for average service. What I would leave pretty much with an average server in a land-based restaurant. Then I would tip up from there with what type of service I got. But the % that is considered the norm keeps going up and up.

 

One thing I've wondered about ..... with auto-gratuity on cruises ...... if the amount is automatically paid for your tips, do you think that you will not get outstanding service??

 

Do you think that the cruise staff will think ..... oh, I automatically am getting a tip ..... why work myself harder when I already know that I'm automatically getting a tip no matter what.

 

Or do you think they still work harder and try to give outstanding, above average service, hoping to get another tip in cash from you, above what they will automatically get????

 

I cruised back with The Big Red Boat, Premier Cruises, many many years ago. I think the service in the Main Dining Rooms was much better than I receive now on my cruises. That was back in the day when you put your tip in an envelope and gave it the last cruise evening.

 

I wonder if the staff is getting more $$ now, than when it was done in the envelope type of tipping. Do you think that a huge amount of folks bypassed tipping when it was done in the envelope way?????