Celebrity Evolution - Cadillac or Oldsmobile?

Unfortunately "family fun" often becomes code for less service and refined customer contact hence as a family with an older teen we avoid it .

RCI definitely has the attractions for the younger crowd and families with things like rock walls and flow riders where as X doesn't.:D

I'd say the old Celebrity was more like a Galaxie or Horizon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Galaxie#mediaviewer/File:1963_Ford_Galaxie_sedan_2_--_06-05-2010.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Horizon#mediaviewer/File:Simca_Chrysler_Horizon_GLS_1979.jpg

And the new Celebrity is more like a Solstice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice#mediaviewer/File:PontiacSolstice.jpg

or an Eclipse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Eclipse#mediaviewer/File:Mitsubishi_Eclipse_--_09-08-2009.jpg

I'd say the old Celebrity was more like a Galaxie or Horizon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Galaxie#mediaviewer/File:1963_Ford_Galaxie_sedan_2_--_06-05-2010.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Horizon#mediaviewer/File:Simca_Chrysler_Horizon_GLS_1979.jpg

And the new Celebrity is more like a Solstice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice#mediaviewer/File:PontiacSolstice.jpg

or an Eclipse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Eclipse#mediaviewer/File:Mitsubishi_Eclipse_--_09-08-2009.jpg

I know which two I would rather have.:rolleyes:

I'd say the old Celebrity was more like a Galaxie or Horizon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Galaxie#mediaviewer/File:1963_Ford_Galaxie_sedan_2_--_06-05-2010.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Horizon#mediaviewer/File:Simca_Chrysler_Horizon_GLS_1979.jpg

And the new Celebrity is more like a Solstice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice#mediaviewer/File:PontiacSolstice.jpg

or an Eclipse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Eclipse#mediaviewer/File:Mitsubishi_Eclipse_--_09-08-2009.jpg

From these choices, I'll take the Solstice.

Right now I would say that Celebrity is more like the Ford Taurus. It's not entry level or bargain basement but it's also far from upscale, luxury, etc, etc.

 

Now before all you =X= cheerleaders get your knickers bunched up, we are dedicated Celebrity cruisers. Back when we started cruising with Celebrity it was an upscale line, far better in our opinion than HAL or Princess each of whom we had cruised with three times before moving to Celebrity. Now, we think that Celebrity has slipped downward and is now just another mass market cruise line. We still like the product offered by Celebrity well enough to cruise with them but it's not as good product as it was ten years ago.

 

There are true luxury or up scale line out there, Crystal, Seabourne and so forth. Now before everyone starts hollering apples to oranges it really isn't in some circumstances. We generally book Sky Suites on Celebrity. We are booked on the combined Christmas and New Year's cruise on the Eclipse. We were on her for the last New Year's cruise. We liked that cruise, that cabin enough that we booked the same cabin this year. HOWEVER, for the prices Celebrity is now charging one can sail any of the upscale lines for fewer bucks. The current rate for an S1 for two people is a little over $21,000.

 

Admittedly we buy extras - premium alcoholic beverage package and the ultimate dining package. Still even without these extras we could cruise one of the up scale lines for less. Still we like Celebrity enough that we keep coming back but realistically it isn't as good a product as when we first began with Celebrity.

 

Everyone enjoy that next cruise and have a great day.:D:):D

 

OMG - I hope not a Ford Taurus! My 2007 was the worst car I ever owned and my 2011 is working on being the 2nd worse. Seriously. At least I'm sticking with Celebrity but not Ford. :)

However, I agree with your comments. Personally, I think Celebrity is trying to be 2 different animals. One aimed at the Suite passengers and the other aimed at everyone else. It is going to be hard to please everyone with this approach.

Your points are generally well taken. However trying to use the Holiday sailings as a basis for comparisons makes the post lose credibility. One could also argue back with the cruise the following week where fares plummet. That would also be inappropriate, and not a good point of comparison. I image even Seaborune and Crystal jack their fares up for the holiday cruises.

 

Renaissance Times Square in NYC charges $199 a night often, but NYE that same room is $600.

 

Marriott in Rio charges $299 a night, but for carnival it's $700 plus requires a 7 night stay.

 

Holiday cruises are all about the supply and demand.

If you look at the suite prices for any Europe 2015 sailing on a Solstice class ship you will see that with taxes and gratuities, they run about $1000 per night ( vs about $600 in 2014 ). ). That's without alcohol .

Seabourn is about the same...$1000 per night, with alcohol, and cheaper internet and no specialty restaurant up charges .....

Having just completed a Reflection/Quest B2B in May in a suite, IMO, there is currently no comparison. The new suite restaurant may alter that dynamic, but only somewhat.

Unless there's a Tuesday special, I wouldn't pay $1000 per night for the Celebrity product given the alternatives at that price point.

If you look at the suite prices for any Europe 2015 sailing on a Solstice class ship you will see that with taxes and gratuities, they run about $1000 per night ( vs about $600 in 2014 ). ). That's without alcohol .

Seabourn is about the same...$1000 per night, with alcohol, and cheaper internet and no specialty restaurant up charges .....

Having just completed a Reflection/Quest B2B in May in a suite, IMO, there is currently no comparison. The new suite restaurant may alter that dynamic, but only somewhat.

in 2015 Royals and up include premium alcohol package. Also unlimited specialty dining and internet, which accounts for a lot of the price difference on those categories. As such, people picking 123 perk likely are taking free gratuities, and if booking on board, are also getting the OBC, in effect all 3 perks apply to those suites if booking them on board.

And remember also, all suites get 1 specialty dining for short cruises, and 2 for long ones, and the elite package of free internet minutes, so factor that in when comparing to another line.

And other than TA's, anyone who's managed to book a suite outside of the 123 perk parameters and doesn't have an included alcohol package, is the exception, rather than the rule.

However if you were looking at Sky or Celebrity suites, they do not include the amenities listed above.

in 2015 Royals and up include premium alcohol package. Also unlimited specialty dining and internet, which accounts for a lot of the price difference on those categories. As such, people picking 123 perk likely are taking free gratuities, and if booking on board, are also getting the OBC, in effect all 3 perks apply to those suites if booking them on board.

 

 

And remember also, all suites get 1 specialty dining for short cruises, and 2 for long ones, and the elite package of free internet minutes, so factor that in when comparing to another line.

 

And other than TA's, anyone who's managed to book a suite outside of the 123 perk parameters and doesn't have an included alcohol package, is the exception, rather than the rule.

 

However if you were looking at Sky or Celebrity suites, they do not include the amenities listed above.

I'm just talking about a basic sky suite. I realize there are some additional perks like some free laundry and 90 minutes of wifi etc. ( I'm Elite + )

The basic drink package in the 1,2,3 doesn't compare to the quality of wine offered on Seabourn. The food isn't even in the same ballpark. The ports a smaller but newer Seabourn ship ( 450 passengers ) can visit are far better overall. In St Petersburg for instance, the ship docks on the river in the city. The larger ships are 45 minutes away. The shuttles are free.

A Celebrity suite is slightly larger at 350 sq ft, and TV is much larger too.

Beyond that, dollar for dollar, it isn't a fair fight.

This is only an issue now that Celebrity has increased prices so much. In the 5-600$ per day range for a suite, it was a reasonable value. At $1000, not IMHO.

Europe suite prices are crazy. I was looking at the Silhouette June 2015 12 night British Isles cruise. A CS is going for twenty grand right now. No way would I pay that. I realize that this is a popular cruise with only a few sailings during the season but $1600.00 a night for a Celebrity suite is crazy. I'm sure someone will pay it as the higher suites are booked.

In response to the OP's question, Celebrity is trying to thread the needle and be both a Cadillac and an Oldsmobile. It's trying to increase revenue by appealing to the affluent traveller with upgraded AQ and improved suite offerings while still trying to fill ships with the veranda / MDR crowd. The cutbacks we've all noticed are designed to increase margins.

The CEO was recently on CNBC. He expects revenue per passenger to increase by 15% per year over the next five years....do the math.

Celebrity is facing increased competition on the higher luxury end though . Seabourn has a new 600 passenger ship debuting in 2016, so does Regent.

Oceania has two new ships and is building another. Viking has entered the market with new ships.

Celebrity may find that the cutbacks we've all noticed ( for me, Tuscan Grill ), coupled with the dramatic fare increases might begin to affect their bookings...

As I've written, I've sailed on 12 Celebrity cruises since Jan 2012... The next one on the Silhouette in Oct/Nov May be my last for awhile, except for the occasional Tuesday special.....

Some interesting points made.

I have noticed that the brochure prices have jumped for the 2015 season however there are still some great deals to be had with particular sailings (not necessarily in Sales). It seems to me that by increasing the prices they get some people in and get the rest when they discount the higher price which then seems like such a saving.

Now, I would say Celebrity is more like Avalon; a little better than a Toyota.

That's probably the right car analogy. Especially when you realize that X is marketing themselves as Lexus.

I was going to say that sadly the Cadillac analogy is also right: great design and handling (ships and service), let down by the terrible GM corporate engines (i.e. website). But Cadillac has been improving its handling lately, whereas X service gets cut after cut.

After seven X cruises in four years, we have not seen a deterioration of service or quality.

Comparing Celebrity to Government Motors is wrong. They didn't get a multi-billion dollar bailout.

I'm just talking about a basic sky suite. I realize there are some additional perks like some free laundry and 90 minutes of wifi etc. ( I'm Elite + )

The basic drink package in the 1,2,3 doesn't compare to the quality of wine offered on Seabourn. The food isn't even in the same ballpark. The ports a smaller but newer Seabourn ship ( 450 passengers ) can visit are far better overall. In St Petersburg for instance, the ship docks on the river in the city. The larger ships are 45 minutes away. The shuttles are free.

A Celebrity suite is slightly larger at 350 sq ft, and TV is much larger too.

Beyond that, dollar for dollar, it isn't a fair fight.

This is only an issue now that Celebrity has increased prices so much. In the 5-600$ per day range for a suite, it was a reasonable value. At $1000, not IMHO.

I don't disagree Seabourne, Reagent et al will provide a more refined experience. My concern is how sleepy it will be, with Celebrity already being pretty quiet most nights.

We have 64 nights booked between this week (leaving Sunday) and March 2016 Panama canal. All of these are in RS or CS. The most expensive cabin is the Panama Canal, all in at $1000/night (RS). As you know, an RS includes EVERYTHING except maybe the spa. For every other night it is much less, say $700-$800 / night including a trip to Asia. We booked at opening prices so we got a good deal, because it went up from there, and now a SS has gone up to almost $1000/night. Between onboard booking incentives, and what our TA is giving us, we're basically getting $1000/week or more in OBC. Because we do have a significant onboard spend for nice wines, spa, and gambling, that brings our cruise cost down well below $1000 a night for every cruise, and for most cruises into the $600-$700/night range for an RS.

We've looked at Regent pretty hard, for the itineraries we're sailing, and for the cabin size (about 300 sq ft), it's pretty close in terms of $$, but we really like the separate room and extra space, which is REALLY a premium on a premium line. I have no doubt I'll love it when it happens, but I haven't been able to get the other half to switch out. I am actually looking forward to it when it happens.

Happy sailing,

Jenna

I don't disagree Seabourne, Reagent et al will provide a more refined experience. My concern is how sleepy it will be, with Celebrity already being pretty quiet most nights.

 

We have 64 nights booked between this week (leaving Sunday) and March 2016 Panama canal. All of these are in RS or CS. The most expensive cabin is the Panama Canal, all in at $1000/night (RS). As you know, an RS includes EVERYTHING except maybe the spa. For every other night it is much less, say $700-$800 / night including a trip to Asia. We booked at opening prices so we got a good deal, because it went up from there, and now a SS has gone up to almost $1000/night. Between onboard booking incentives, and what our TA is giving us, we're basically getting $1000/week or more in OBC. Because we do have a significant onboard spend for nice wines, spa, and gambling, that brings our cruise cost down well below $1000 a night for every cruise, and for most cruises into the $600-$700/night range for an RS.

 

We've looked at Regent pretty hard, for the itineraries we're sailing, and for the cabin size (about 300 sq ft), it's pretty close in terms of $$, but we really like the separate room and extra space, which is REALLY a premium on a premium line. I have no doubt I'll love it when it happens, but I haven't been able to get the other half to switch out. I am actually looking forward to it when it happens.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

For me the main difference is food quality. You can't compare lunch in the Oceanview cafe to what you'll get on Regent or Seabourn. The dinner experience is also in a completely different category,

The wild card is the new suite restaurant, if it is really, a la minute, real cooking vs the 14 day Blu/MDR menu, that will add to the experience.

The deal you got isn't probably currently available....good job., enjoy your trip!

For me the main difference is food quality. You can't compare lunch in the Oceanview cafe to what you'll get on Regent or Seabourn. The dinner experience is also in a completely different category,

The wild card is the new suite restaurant, if it is really, a la minute, real cooking vs the 14 day Blu/MDR menu, that will add to the experience.

The deal you got isn't probably currently available....good job., enjoy your trip!

I am sure the food is better, no doubt in my mind at all, but there is more to it than that for us.

I admit, I am a bit of a food snob and can't see the food on ANY ship being anything like what we get at home either in my own kitchen or in our closest city, Portland, ME which just might be the farm to table capital of the world. At home we've have our own eggs, beef, pork and chicken prepared by an experienced chef :D (mu partner). On the road or even in Portland I am lucky enough to visit some amazing restaurants. I actually get pretty tired of special food, with more than 250 days a year on the road. I've been known to eat soup and salad or plain chiecken breasts quiet often.

As far as our future bookings, we booked nearly everything at the lowest price avaialble, and watched it rise. We've compared opening price of our 2014, 2015 and 2016 cruises compared to previous years, and even after suite perks, the largest increase we saw was for a PH up $500 from 2014 to 2015 which was maybe 5%. While I understand you must book what is available at the time you're looking to make your won value judgement, I think it is harder to say prices have really increased due to suite perks unless you factor in increased demand, which there sure seems to be.

Hoping to join you on Regeant soon.

Happy sailing,

Jenna

I posted the silly response with the Horizon and Galaxy, but I thought I should add what my last Celebrity experience was really like.

I was with a small wine maker's group. Silhouette Feb 2014. Our group amenity was 4 hosted wine tasting events with a wine maker from our local area sampling her wines. Celebrity provided the sommliers and the set ups for the tastings and a complementary food and wine pairing lunch at Tuscan Grill.

We absolutely felt like VIP's with wonderful dining room service, wine service and a wonderful time had by all.

For some it was the first time on a cruise, others in our group were well traveled having cruised on comparable lines like Holland America or luxury lines like Crystal. I got nothing but positive feed back from everyone with maybe one or two comments about one dish that out of the many many we had in the MDR was not well liked.

I sometimes struggle to find the words to describe how wonderful a Celebrity cruise is. Our wine hosts had only been on one other cruise about 15 years ago, I think on Royal Caribbean and they were so impressed by how beautiful the ship was and how the staff handled every little detail so well.

I'd compare a Celebrity cruise to maybe a Mercedes, except that I don't think that a Mercedes is near the value of a Celebrity cruise. Everytime I took my Mercedes in for a regular service, it seemed to cost me as much as a week or two on a Celebrity Cruise. I hated that, so I replaced the Mercedes with a Jetta and now I can afford both my car and my favorite cruise.

Just riffing off of Jenna for a moment and her statement ..... "Portland, ME which just might be the farm to table capital of the world."

I second that....and great to see a little Portland love here. Maine has more miles of coastline than any other state and our abundance of seafood is matched only by the abundance of farm fresh produce and forest fresh game and foraged fare. When you realize Maine has 38,000 square miles and a statewide population of just 1.2 million you begin to see the possibilities for eating truly fresh and magnificent food.

Please forgive the aside.

Just riffing off of Jenna for a moment and her statement ..... "Portland, ME which just might be the farm to table capital of the world."

 

I second that....and great to see a little Portland love here. Maine has more miles of coastline than any other state and our abundance of seafood is matched only by the abundance of farm fresh produce and forest fresh game and foraged fare. When you realize Maine has 38,000 square miles and a statewide population of just 1.2 million you begin to see the possibilities for eating truly fresh and magnificent food.

 

Please forgive the aside.

Very interesting information, all is forgiven.:D

 

Maine has more miles of coastline than any other state.

 

Please forgive the aside.

Sorry, this isn't a true statement. Folks in Alaska, California, Florida and Louisiana would have to disagree with your statement.

Maine is one of my favorite places and Portland is a wonderful city and can't wait to spend time in Maine next month.

To the OP, maybe an Audi, Mercedes or Lexus, but not a Caddie.

If you look at the suite prices for any Europe 2015 sailing on a Solstice class ship you will see that with taxes and gratuities, they run about $1000 per night ( vs about $600 in 2014 ). ). That's without alcohol .

Seabourn is about the same...$1000 per night, with alcohol, and cheaper internet and no specialty restaurant up charges .....

Having just completed a Reflection/Quest B2B in May in a suite, IMO, there is currently no comparison. The new suite restaurant may alter that dynamic, but only somewhat.

Unless there's a Tuesday special, I wouldn't pay $1000 per night for the Celebrity product given the alternatives at that price point.

We agree completely with the points you made in this post. We actually hit the crossover point two years ago. We had made our reservation while aboard the Connie for our next cruise and we booked a specific SkySuite, paid the deposit, got the receipt all at the desk of the future cruise person. Four months later we get an "Oh Sugar" email. Seems that there was a bad screw up on Celebrity's part and our suite was double booked and furthermore the other party booked it one day earlier so they get it.

I was really irked with =X= at that point. Making the mistake was bad enough but taking four months to discover it was more than I was willing to tolerate. We then put a deposit on a Regent cruise sailing at about the same time as the Celebrity cruise. By the time you add gratuities at $30 per day plus a drink package for each of us plus five or six dinners in the upscale restaurants it was actually less expensive by some $300-$400 to sail with Regent. If this was the Celebrity of ten years ago then the Celebrity product was better. With all of the cutbacks though Regent proved to be a much better experience.

Bear in mind that like you said this was for an S1 suite. Now if we wind the clock forward to the present you hit the nail on the head. The price increases for 2015 often makes Celebrity more expensive than the up scale lines are plus the up scale lines deliver a superior product. Like you we will continue to look for that Tuesday special but for the most part we are looking to other sources for our future cruises.

Everyone enjoy that next cruise no matter when it is, where it goes or what cruise line your on.

:):D:)

Just riffing off of Jenna for a moment and her statement ..... "Portland, ME which just might be the farm to table capital of the world."

 

I second that....and great to see a little Portland love here. Maine has more miles of coastline than any other state and our abundance of seafood is matched only by the abundance of farm fresh produce and forest fresh game and foraged fare. When you realize Maine has 38,000 square miles and a statewide population of just 1.2 million you begin to see the possibilities for eating truly fresh and magnificent food.

 

Please forgive the aside.

First, regarding this thread: I am enjoying the discussion and comparison, even if i didn't get my point across. I really wanted to see a discussion regarding the evolution and change, and if Celebrity will come out different (better, worse, or maybe not at all) for it.

For Seabourn Pearls: It's "my" thread and you're welcome any time!

The hardest part about it, is choosing where to eat on any given night, and for special occasions, it's nearly impossible! If I tell people you can't get better Sushi or Ramen in San Fran, Seatle or NY, they scoff at me, but I know differnet (thank you Miyake!)

If you think sharing a cab at Fore Street means getting in a vehicle, you haven't lived ;)

Hope to see you onboard soon.

Happy sailing,

Jenna