Dispelling a myth

Was this on an Oceania cruise? I know for a long time Princess was guilty of this behavior. Before visiting st. Petersburg on Nautica, we were worried about this practice. We had a letter from our private Russian tour company which basically said "don't try to hold up our clients. It's against Russian regulations."

 

Ultimately, we didn't need this since Nautica's Captain clearly said everyone may depart the ship at will when he made the morning announcement the first morning in St Petersburg.

Whatever your efforts before the cruise, I cannot imagine that the Russian Officials at the foot of the gangway would have been impressed or swayed by a letter from "your private tour company". :rolleyes:

In case you haven't seen a newspaper for the last 25 years, the Russians do exactly what they want to do, and damn the Torpedos

You were just lucky.

Whatever your efforts before the cruise, I cannot imagine that the Russian Officials at the foot of the gangway would have been impressed or swayed by a letter from "your private tour company". :rolleyes:

In case you haven't seen a newspaper for the last 25 years, the Russians do exactly what they want to do, and damn the Torpedos

 

You were just lucky.

Luck had nothing to do with this situation. We aren't even talking about the same topic. Most emphatically, I was not talking about getting through passport control. I was talking only about exiting the ship. Apples. Oranges.

Several posts dealt with tender departures. Post #45 dealt with departing the ship in St Petersburg. Some cruise lines have a corporate policy -- not a Russian port policy -- of holding up independent travelers. The Nautica captain clearly stated all cruisers could exit the ship at will; there was no priority system. Had he said otherwise, I was prepared to deal with that development. I was similarly prepared to get through Russian passport control with the proper documentation.

Your snark is entirely misplaced.

We ran into major discrimination against independent tours in St. Petersburg. Several hours before independent passengers could meet with private guides. No tendering involved but long lines to get passports checked by only one attendant. We were not allowed to leave the ship until ship tours had left. After first day, not a problem.

The pertinent question is who was the "attendant" checking the passports - Where they from Oceania or were they local Russian Officials?

I would doubt that they were from Oceania, as they have already validated each passengers passport when they boarded. Hence, it seems that root cause the issue is the lack of resources provided by the local officials...

In which case, hard to justify resourcing issues with Russia as being "major discrimination"by Oceania...

When in St Petersburg, you have to go through customs and be interrogated by a very grim looking customs agent. The first day takes a really long time because it is the first time through for everyone. After the first day, it is very fast.

You do not need to get your own visa if you are with a licensed tour company. You only need to get one if you are wanting to wander around by yourself. Pretty much all the cruise lines give false information on this.

I dont know about this false information from cruiselines

Sounds a bit like interpretation of everyone's 'yes you do" or "no, you dont" incomplete statements.

Here for example, this tour company says you do not if on one of their tours but then say they obtain them for you (as part of the group visa). So to me that is "yes, you do but you dont need to get them" and not, "no your dont need one"

Q. Do I need Tourist VISA travel to Russia?

Yes you do, except for Cruise Passengers booked for St. Petersburg City Tour ...

Not unlike the cruiselines . As per redoctober.us:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Q. Do I need Tourist VISA travel to Russia?

A. Yes you do, except for Cruise Passengers booked for St. Petersburg City Tour or Shore Excursion with a Cruise line or with registered local tour operator like Red October Company. Red October Company obtains a group TOURIST VISA, thus you do not need an individual VISA.

The dockside Russian immigration officials will check your passport and consider a Red October Company Tour Voucher to be good to pass the control. You do not need any official letter at all. Red October Company will save you money (VISA costs about $120 USD) without sacrificing the quality. Therefore, that is an excellent chance to save your money for other pleasant things when you are in St. Petersburg.

Here how it works:

Your names and the passport details are on the cruise line passenger manifest which the cruise line sends to Russia (immigration authorities) a couple of weeks prior the ship's arrival and the ship also submits that manifest with all the last minute adjustments to the Russian Authorities who come on board the ship when the ship arrives in St Petersburg. The Cruise Ship's local tour operator also submits to the immigration authorities the excursions programs and samples of the excursions tickets for St Petersburg. This is the required procedure.

RED OCTOBER Company goes the same way. RO sends you the RO Vouchers and the samples of these Vouchers are always in each immigration booth on the pier. Therefore, when you come with these RO Vouchers and show them with your passports to the immigration officer they already know that you take RO tours. Red October Company also signs the required papers with your names and the passport details at the immigration office a week before your arrival.

Therefore, everything is easy and legal. This means RO provides "an immigration umbrella" to all our clients

I dont know about this false information from cruiselines. Sounds a bit like interpretation of everyone's 'yes you do" or "no, you dont" incomplete statements.

The question is whether the document provided to a person booking directly for a tour with a private licensed tour company is really a visa. It certainly isn't a visa in the formal sense. Plenty of readers of this thread have gotten visas for different countries; I've even gotten a full-up, official, paste-in-my-passport Russian visa for a river cruise trip in 2001. We know the drill needed to obtain a visa and it bears no resemblance to what cruisers do when touring St. Petersburg with a licensed company. So, no, not everyone needs a visa; thousands of cruise visitors effortlessly clear Russian passport control with a tour ticket/blanket visa/umbrella visa combined with their original passport. Only visitors who to want to wander at will and on their own need to get what everyone agrees is a visa.

After our Baltic cruise, I asked Irina, the owner of White Nights Travel who arranged our tour in St. Petersburg about the terminology. Here's her answer, " I do not know why they call it blanket visa. We do take your information to the Russian Immigration to get their approval, but in Russian it is called visa-free regime. You can read about the visa-free rules on our web site."

http://www.wn-travel.com/wnt/Info.html

So, no, not everyone needs a visa; thousands of cruise visitors effortlessly clear Russian passport control with a tour ticket/blanket visa/umbrella visa combined with their original passport. Only visitors who to want to wander at will and on their own need to get what everyone agrees is a visa.

"So, no, not everyone needs a visa; thousands of cruise visitors effortlessly clear Russian passport control with a tour ticket/blanket visa/umbrella visa combined with their original passport"

You first say, not everyone needs a visa then appear to say that those (who do not need the visa) "effortlessly clear Russian passport control with a tour ticket/blanket visa/umbrella visa". And that is a visa. True, might not be a paste-in-your-passort type visa, one you might not ever see but it is being referred to as a visa.

Whether I obtain a visa myself, or pay the cruise line to get me one or hire the tour company (as part of the fee to join their group tour) to get one as part of their group visa, I still need a visa.

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying or what the problem really is but I don't see an issue

Seems we are quibbling over what is a visa.

Whether I obtain a visa myself, or pay the cruise line to get me one or hire the tour company (as part of the fee to join their group tour) to get one as part of their group visa, I still need a visa.

 

Perhaps I misunderstand what you are saying or what the problem really is but I don't see an issue

Have you ever obtained a full Russian visa? If you had, you'd wouldn't be using the word "quibble" when discussing a way to legally visit Russia without applying for a full visa. My visa information is 16 years old so I tried to get a more updated idea of the effort needed to get a full visa. I didn't take the application process at the way to the point where I could see the current form of a Russian visa application. However, I did find a web site that explained the following:

"Be prepared: The application is intensive. Required information includes where you and your spouses were born, your parents’ personal information, details of your health insurance valid in Russia, every country you have visited in the last ten years (with dates), previous jobs held (including supervisors’ names and phone numbers) and higher educational institutions attended. Assume this will take 30-45 minutes to fill out."

The web site went on to say the requirements included filling in the online application and a duplicate hand-written form. The requirement to have a health insurance policy valid in Russia may require some cruisers to purchase special health insurance. And there may be more legal requirements that I can't immediately identify. Finally, the web site says Russian consulates do not accept applications by mail which means anyone who does not live close to a consulate must either drive to the consulate or paid for the service of a Visa Application Firm.

FWIW, when we applied for our 2001 visa, the application ran 7 pages long and took significantly longer than 30-45 minutes to complete. It asked applicants to list all the clubs we belong to, all the magazines we subscribed to, and a few more questions that were obviously designed to be more irritating than useful in identifying qualified visitors.

Citizens of the UK can correct me, but I believe they cannot apply for a visa online.. I believe that they have to appear in person at a Russian consulate in the UK to provide biometric identification.

Cruisers entering under the visa-free/umbrella-visa/blanket-visa regulations do the following: provide name as written in passport, passport number, date of passport expiration, date of birth, and citizenship. (I've heard one person say he was asked for his home address, but we weren't) This can all be done via email.

I haven't even dealt the cost of obtaining a full Russian visa VS the visa-free process.

Bottom line: Some Russian companies say "blanket-visa" or "umbrella visa" and that makes it appear that everyone needs a visa, when, in fact, they don't. As I've already written, the tour company we hired uses the term visa-free and says this is the official Russian terminology. I think the differences between a real visa and visa-free entry are substantial and worth understanding.

The previous poster is making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Passengers visiting most Countries by cruise ship do so under what was called for many years "yachting privileges". This means that the ship certifies that they are taking X number of passengers into a Port and will exit with that same number when they leave. Whether we call this a blanket Visa or a Visa free Program, seems immaterial.

What does matter is that, unlike any other nation in Europe, and most in Asia, Russia does not permit "Yachting Privilege" Tourists to wander about freely during their visit, they are REQUIRED to be continuously escorted by a certified Russian Guide. Persons who wish to tour unescorted MUST obtain a Russian Visa.

"wouldn't be using the word "quibble" when discussing a way to legally visit Russia"

My comment "Seems we are quibbling over what is a visa." was about what is a visa and not how to obtain one.

My point was that it seemed to me you were contradicting yourself in your reply to my post.

"So, no, not everyone needs a visa; thousands of cruise visitors effortlessly clear Russian passport control with a tour ticket/blanket visa/umbrella visa combined with their original passport"

Re-reading that I see that you really did state numbers for one side. I inferred that meant all. i.e. Not everyone needs one; 1000s do use one. (and 1000s do not). I am thinking 1000s use a group visa (and others use a stick-it-in-your-passport visa) and yet, not everyone needs a visa. It puzzled me.

Seems you are very passionate about this subject and have spent a lot of time researching. Could be a worthwhile thread on the Ports of Call.

I'm off to more enjoyable pursuits; have a couple of rapidly approaching cruise I am well behind on my preparations. None to Russia but do have my needed visa for one of the trips.

Apologies to the OP for getting this off further topic

Seems you are very passionate about this subject and have spent a lot of time researching. Could be a worthwhile thread on the Ports of Call.

This topic is regularly and thoroughly discussed on the Northern Europe/Baltic Port of Call board. The regulars there routinely try to help anyone who comes to that board confused about visiting St Petersburg.

This topic is regularly and thoroughly discussed on the Northern Europe/Baltic Port of Call board. The regulars there routinely try to help anyone who comes to that board confused about visiting St Petersburg.

There is no reason for any confusion unless one deliberately over complicates it (see post 59)

From a popular tour guide's website

"To those people arriving to St. Petersburg on a cruise ship who are booking shore excursions with us, we take care of your visa for Russia for the duration of your ship’s stay. As a fully licensed tour operator, we are legally authorized to provide you with a document called a Tour Ticket which acts as your blanket visa for the duration of your stay in St. Petersburg. This document will allow you to enter Russia to take your tour with us. This has been an integral part of our business for the 7 years we have been in operation and we have never had a problem with our guests getting through Russian immigration. Tour Tickets are only required for St. Petersburg.

When you disembark the ship, all you need from us is your tour-ticket (along with your physical passport (not a copy)) and you are good to go!

"

There is no reason for any confusion unless one deliberately over complicates it (see post 59)

We've ended the day as we began. You missed the point of an earlier post and, now you're complaining that my detailed information is too complicated. You'll be happier if you put me on your "Do not read list."

Visiting St Petersburg is complicated because of the hard choices visitors must make dealing with too many appealing options in too little time. This port call is made even more complex by the Russian government's rules and the misleading and intimidating information put out by cruise lines. Anyone doubting this should read the Northern Europe/Baltic board. It's routinely filled with newcomer posts that predictably begin "I'm so confused..."

To anyone who is actually planning a trip to St. Petersburg, my information is reliable; it is complex because it is thorough and avoids a one-size-fits-all answer. If readers don't want to deal in this level of complexity, then they shouldn't bother reading my posts.

We've ended the day as we began. You missed the point of an earlier post and, now you're complaining that my detailed information is too complicated. You'll be happier if you put me on your "Do not read list."

Visiting St Petersburg is complicated because of the hard choices visitors must make dealing with too many appealing options in too little time. This port call is made even more complex by the Russian government's rules and the misleading and intimidating information put out by cruise lines. Anyone doubting this should read the Northern Europe/Baltic board. It's routinely filled with newcomer posts that predictably begin "I'm so confused..."

To anyone who is actually planning a trip to St. Petersburg, my information is reliable; it is complex because it is thorough and avoids a one-size-fits-all answer. If readers don't want to deal in this level of complexity, then they shouldn't bother reading my posts.

Thank you kindly for your advice, but I'll continue to read and reply as I see fit. To be honest, I find the high dudgeon with which you reply to every comment or perceived criticism , vaguely amusing.

To be clear, I did NOT misunderstand your original post, but I do disagree with it because you don't seem to be able to differentiate between what the Cruise Line does and what the local officials do and/or have the power to effect.

Has it never occurred to you, for example, that the Russian Authorities might sometimes ask that passengers be segregated into their various touring groups before approaching passport control simply for ease of operations? Their offices, at the English Embankment are quite limited in size and the Guides must meet "their" passengers immediatly.

Russia is a special case, but it needn't be confusing, as long as those differences are understood and respected. Similarly, when posting on a PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD, we should be able to handle our disagreements in a civil manner.

Another twist which those using independent tours in St. Petersburg may run into is that their excursion provider may change up the itinerary to a different start time on the first day to ease congestion in immigration. Alla did this to us. We had a later start time day one and a much earlier start time day two.

Thank you kindly for your advice, but I'll continue to read and reply as I see fit...

Accuracy should be an important goal and post #65 contains wrong information. Ships the size of Nautica call at the Marine Facade not the English Embankment. The picture you provided is irrelevant; the argument you advanced about limited space in the passport control area is not applicable in the cavernous, new St Petersburg terminals.

In 2015, our cruise on Nautica was the 118th ship to dock at Marine Facade, a huge complex of four passenger terminals located somewhat distant from the city. Oceania's use of Marine Facade terminals continued in 2015 when another Nautica cruise docked atTerminal 4and Marina docked at Terminal 3. It continued in 2016 and will continue in 2017. (Marina will dock at Terminal 1 June 16, 2017.)

URL for archived and 2017 schedule for Marine Facade: http://www.portspb.ru/en/Ships_Schedule

URL for map of Marine Facade Terminal: http://cruiseportwiki.com/StPetersburg

Cruise lines have a history of favoring passengers who have bought the ship's excursions for reasons that have nothing to do with tight quarters in the passport control area. At least based on our 2015 cruise, Oceania is even-handed with all its passengers about disembarking in St Petersburg.

[/font]Cruise lines have a history of favoring passengers who have bought the ship's excursions for reasons that have nothing to do with tight quarters in the passport control area. At least based on our 2015 cruise, Oceania is even-handed with all its passengers about disembarking in St Petersburg.

This is what I mean about subtle differences,-

When your conclusion references a history of something,your supporting argument cannot be entirely about present conditions.

A huge portion of that history took place at the English Embankment.

This is what I mean about subtle differences,-

 

When your conclusion references a history of something,your supporting argument cannot be entirely about present conditions.

A huge portion of that history took place at the English Embankment.

Whatever.

This is what I mean about subtle differences,-

 

When your conclusion references a history of something,your supporting argument cannot be entirely about present conditions.

A huge portion of that history took place at the English Embankment.

Yes, that is where we docked on our first trip to St. Petersburg. Our last trip was on Riviera and we docked at the new terminal as Riviera was too big to go up the river to the English Embankment. Both times we were on Alla tours and had NO problem getting off the ship to meet our PRIVATE guides. Lets not continue to bash O when not called for. Their tour staff works very hard on port days and we need to give them credit for their hard work. How much O charges for tours is out of their control. Much too much in my mind.

Yes, that is where we docked on our first trip to St. Petersburg. Our last trip was on Riviera and we docked at the new terminal as Riviera was too big to go up the river to the English Embankment. Both times we were on Alla tours and had NO problem getting off the ship to meet our PRIVATE guides. Lets not continue to bash O when not called for. Their tour staff works very hard on port days and we need to give them credit for their hard work. How much O charges for tours is out of their control. Much too much in my mind.

Well stated...