Avoiding Jamaica

This is how they spend the money cruisers leave behind:

http://365gay.com/opinion/besen/besen.htm

"In flowery billboards and endearing television ads, the Jamaicans look so incredibly friendly. On the website www.Jamaicans.com the slogan is "home away from home." In another ad campaign, the residents plead with benign smiles, "Come Back to Jamaica." But it turns out that Jamaica is not home if you're a homo, and you might come back from Jamaica in a body bag. For whatever reason, the locals have gone loco and gay bashing has replaced Jamaican bobsledding as the national sport.

An article in last week's Time Magazine calls Jamaica the "most homophobic place on earth." It points out that recently two of the island's leading gay rights advocates, Brian Williamson and Steve Harvey, had been ruthlessly slain. If that was not enough, a crowd essentially danced on Williamson's grave by celebrating over his mutilated body. In 2004, a father learned his son was gay and went to his school to invite a group of peers to lynch his son. Now that's family values!

Not too long after this sickening episode, witnesses claim police egged on a mob that stabbed and stoned a gay man to death in Montego Bay. Earlier this year, a Kingston man, Nokia Cowan, drowned after a crowd shouting "batty boy" (a Jamaican slur for queer) chased him off a dock.

"Jamaica is the worst any of us has ever seen," Rebecca Schleifer of the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch explained to Time. Despite this record, Americans continue to subsidize this slaughter by boarding ships destined for Jamaica to cruise and booze. This is unconscionable and you can bet there would be a much greater uproar if this abuse were happening to any other minority. "

Great article! Thanks for posting it! I personally don't get off the ship anymore if I end up taking a cruise that docks in the Bahamas. I've successfully avoided booking any cruise that goes to Jamaica deliberately...I feel bad even giving that island of bigots my port fees.

Looks like I might need to add St. Maarten to my list as well of "no-no" places. I am disgusted by the way their society and government has handled the serious gay-bashing there.

I understand the tendency of some posters on this board to come to the defense of such islands, noting that gay bashings happen all over the world -- even in Amsterdam, America, etc.

The difference, however, is that our societies even in the more conservative circles in places like Wyoming come together and with a resounding, single voice say "NO" to violence. They demand justice, regardless of whether or not they "approve" of someone being gay.

Society on these islands is completely different. The overwhelming majority of the people *HATE* gays with a passion seen only in the absolute worst bigots in our societies -- ones that will resort to violence to get their way. The newspapers here are far from some "liberal media," often using derogatory terms towards the homosexual community and even going the extra step to defend those who attack or even MURDER gays.

Anyone on these boards who continually comes to the defense of places like Jamaica really needs to take a look at the facts. Gay bashings DO happen all over the world – you’re correct in that regard. But, you’re dead wrong to claim that there is therefore no difference between Western society and THAT disgusting idea of “justice" displayed in the corrupt, bigoted society that is Jamaica.

That said, gays have some of the most sought after tourist dollars on the international market. Maybe it is time to put our money where our mouths are and stop patronizing islanders that smile to OUR faces, then turn around and use OUR money to discriminate and harm people just like us.

I've only been to Jamaica once, on a straight cruise. I found Ocho Rios to be a complete pit. i've been to poor countries before, but never one so simmering with hatred, anger, and violence. I swore I'd never go back and that was before I found out about the horrible homophobic things that go on in that country.

As far as St. Maarten, I'm waiting to see if the guys are caught and prosecuted. In the meantime, I hope that Atlantis cancels St. Maarten as a stop on the Freedom 2007 Charter. Otherwise, I won't be getting off the boat and I might have to reconsider going.

On my cruise later this year, I had the choice of two different iteniaries that the ship of choice would be alternating each week. One was to the Southern Caribbean and the other was a Western Caribbean trip that included Jamaica and Grand Cayman. I chose the Southern Caribbean voyage.

After knowing that there are other islands down there that look down on Jamaicans I get the feeling its not a pleasant place to visit.

On all of the islands I've been too, the locals have expressed extreme displeasure with the Jamaicans that come to their island. I wouldn't be surprised if the attackers in St. Maarten turn out to be native Jamaicans.

When the Atlantis Navigator of the Seas stop at Grand Cayman was protested this past January, we were told by our tour guide that the "ass#*#& protesting are all Jamaicans." He was very adamant about every he knew not being pleased to have them on Grand Cayman.

I simply won't take a cruise that stops in Jamacia.

I had to work in Jamaica back in the 90s, and in Kingston, not some isolated compound.

It was terrible - the crippling poverty brews a simmering hatred against any tourist or affluent foreigner, but violence against gays and lesbians, both vistors and natives, was implicitly condoned. At the time, I believe being arrested for a homosexual offence was punishable by 12 years in jail.

I told my clients I was unwilling to work there ever again.

I am one of the people that have defended Jamaica in the past.... ALL of the MANY times we have gone there we have had a wonderful time. We have friends that live there and we even have a bank account in Jamaica.... It has been several years since we have been there and am I planning to go back any time soon? NO ..... we will not be going back until things change.... Have I written the Prime Minister, the government officials and the Jamaican Tourist Bureau with my displeasure and reason for staying away? YES.... I think it takes a little more then "just not going there" After all, they could chalk that up to just a slump in the travel industry..... I think it is important to express a reason for NOT going.... YES... gay dollars are in demand, all dollars are in demand, but I think it is important to show which are GAY dollars and how they will NOT be spent and how much they are actually loosing..... I also WOULD close my bank account but I have to be there in person, and that is not going to happen any time soon... however there will be no more deposits until things change..... There is starting to be pressure put on the government, Coca-Cola and Red Stripe Beer have started to press the government, as other large companies that do business and sponser a lot of the events that take place in Jamaica.... I think that people should express their feelings to those that matter, other wise I think it is like spitting in the wind. I do not like seeing my Gay brothers & sisters in Jamiaca or any other country for that matter treated poorly, the difference here in the US and some other countries is that we have made a LOUD voice and it is heard.... so PLEASE speak out..... most sincerely.... Dan

If anyone is interested in writing the address to the minister's office is: Prime Minister Hon. Portia Simpson Miller, Prime Ministers office, 1 Devon Road, Kingston 10, Jamaica W.I ...... Minister of Tourism, Entertainment, & Culture Hon. Aloun N'Dombet-Assamba (same street address)........ the Cabinet Secretary is Hon Carlton E. Davis, Office of the Prime Minister (same street address) .... He can also be emailed if you go to HTTP://WW.Cabinet.Gov.JM/ Most Sincerely Dan

Long before Jamaica’s antigay atmosphere became apparent; I stopped getting off the ship while in port, I can’t stand the general harassment and I have seen or done what little there is there that interest me. Same for the Caymans, since I am not a shopper and if I don’t go to Stingray City, no reason to get off the ship. That being said, I live in Atlanta, and spend a lot of time in rural Georgia, with a partner who is a different race, I know first hand this Country is no more tolerant or safe, then Jamaica, the Caymans, St. Martin or any other Caribbean Island.

Sorry but with our current Presidential administration, atmosphere of intolerance and violence in this Country, pretty much puts us in the same boat with them (so to speak).

will not take a cruise that has jamacia as a port.had the misfortune to stop there once. what a mistake. never again

Its good that we discuss these things here...

...but it's kinda like preaching to the choir.

My suggestion is that when you're on the boards for your favorite line and folks mention Jamaica, etc - be up front and share the reasons that you refuse to book a cruise that stops there or refuse get off the boat/book shore excursions when it stops in Jamaica. I think you'll find that most folks will be respectful of your opinions and will often share your feelings about Jamaica, although for different reasons.

The more open we are about who we are and what our issues are that make us feel unsafe, the better support we'll have from our str8 friends to encourage change. When the lines read these boards and see why we're not buying shore excursions for stops at Ocho Rios or Montego Bay - they may eventually realize that these are undesirable and unprofitable ports for them and they could make more money if they were to pull into St Croix, Grand Turk, Tortola or other more-inviting islands instead...

I'm straight but definitely gay-friendly (and I hope no one minds that I "lurk" on this board - I'm just curious by nature). I was planning a Caribbean cruise for next summer but after hearing this I will choose one that does NOT go to Jamaica. It is just unconscionable that so much gay-bashing goes on there and American tourists just turn the other cheek. There are lots of places to have fun - why go to such a hateful place?

I'm straight but definitely gay-friendly (and I hope no one minds that I "lurk" on this board - I'm just curious by nature). I was planning a Caribbean cruise for next summer but after hearing this I will choose one that does NOT go to Jamaica. It is just unconscionable that so much gay-bashing goes on there and American tourists just turn the other cheek. There are lots of places to have fun - why go to such a hateful place?

Thank you. Please spread the word.

Jamaican Embassy

1520 New Hampshire Avenue, NW, Washington DC 20036

Telephone: (202) 452-0660

Fax: (202) 452-0081

.....I guess by now that you can see I have a strong passion for Jamaica.... there is HEADWAY being made, can you believe that "Brokeback Mountain" was actually allowed in two theaters there? We have MANY Gay brothers and sisters there.... they do live in fear and they do need our support.... YES a boycott of travel to Jamaica is warrented.... but PLEASE SPEAK OUT, we would not have come near as far in this country if people did not speak out.... we are gaining steps in the USA everyday, baby steps, but steps in the right direction regardless.... but nothing would have come about if people were not speaking out, we need to speak out not only for ourselves, but for our brothers and sisters as well.... Brian, you are right, tell people where you stand... the more people that realize what is going on in the world the better.... Maybe one day we can sing with meaning.... "ONE love, ONE heart. lets get together and it will be all right" .... most sincerely ..... Dan

I am a straight female and I will never set foot again in Jamaica again not only because I am now aware of its treatment of gays, but also because of the treatment I received from its citizens in Ocho Rios in 2003. I made the mistake of walking from the ship to the marketplace. The disgusting things that men shouted out of their cars towards me made me extremely fearful for the first time ever when travelling. When I walked into the marketplace, one woman pulled me so hard into her stall, that she left bruises on my arm. Needless to say, I hightailed it back to the ship without spending a penny and will never take another cruise that has a stop in Jamaica. I have heard previously that Grand Cayman was extremely homophobic and I don't think I will go back there, either. I watched Rosie's cruise and was appalled at the treatment they received in the Bahamas. It made me want to cry for those children who were exposed to this. What is wrong with these "religious" people. If there is a God, one day they and their type will have stand before him/her and answer for their intolerance on earth. As for the tourist destinations, the only way to make them stop their ways is by boycotting them.

My partner and I booked our cruise last year with Pied Piper for this November. One of our ports is St. Marteen. We have a thread for those going on the cruise with PP, and I asked the question about concern with the situation in St. Marteen...and no one seemed the least bit concerned about it. "It happens all the time. Don't worry." (The islands' mantra!) :confused:

I think it's possible to take an ostrich approach to this and it can obviously become dangerous. Like one of the earlier posters, I'm going to watch with interest how the governments ultimately handles this situation. (BTW...Would it get the same treatment if the victims didn't work for CBS news?) We have no choice at this point about the port...but I will wait to detemine if I get off the ship. For me, it's more than a safety issue...it's economy. Do I want to give my money to those who would rather I were dead? (Same reason I don't contribute to the Republican party or the Southern Baptist Church!) :(

My partner and I are already booked on the Mariner of the Seas for December 2006. After reading this thread, I have reconsidered doing a shore excursion in Jamaica. I will also write the Jamaican Embassy to let them know why.

Looks like it will be a wonderful day to explore the ship!

My partner and I booked our cruise last year with Pied Piper for this November. One of our ports is St. Marteen. We have a thread for those going on the cruise with PP, and I asked the question about concern with the situation in St. Marteen...and no one seemed the least bit concerned about it. "It happens all the time. Don't worry." (The islands' mantra!) :confused:

 

I think it's possible to take an ostrich approach to this and it can obviously become dangerous. Like one of the earlier posters, I'm going to watch with interest how the governments ultimately handles this situation. (BTW...Would it get the same treatment if the victims didn't work for CBS news?) We have no choice at this point about the port...but I will wait to detemine if I get off the ship. For me, it's more than a safety issue...it's economy. Do I want to give my money to those who would rather I were dead? (Same reason I don't contribute to the Republican party or the Southern Baptist Church!) :(

I was not that impressed with St Maarten, personally. I do agree with you that it's more of an economic issue. There are excursions you can take, though, that don't involve contributing to the economy as a whole. For example, the butterfly farm on the Dutch side is lovely. Willie is a great host and guide. I don't think purchasing that excursion from the ship will involve a lot of contribution to the St Maarten economy - although if you went independently you would be paying for your transportation, and that is a contribution. I don't know a whole lot about economics, though.

Being 60 years old, I remember that it wasn't all that long ago that parts of the U S wasn't all that different than Jamaica; that it was OK to kill fags or black people for that matter.

One particular situation was a trial of two soldiers from Ft. Campbell KY, they were on trial for killing a funeral director. The two young men were found not guilty; the person they killed was gay. The trial really was just a formality.

I don't think purchasing that excursion from the ship will involve a lot of contribution to the St Maarten economy - although if you went independently you would be paying for your transportation, and that is a contribution. I don't know a whole lot about economics, though.

Purchasing an excursion is just as much a contribution to the local economy as arranging the same trip yourself - you're simply paying more for the same local services with the add'l dinero is going to the cruiseline.

In actuality, you are contributing to their economy by simply taking a cruise that stops at the island through the form of a per passenger head tax for each day at port. The most recent information I could find is that the cruise ship pays Jamaica $15 per person per day in port. That dollar amount may be old, but there is definately a tax paid to the island whether or not you get off the ship.

We are making a stop in Jamaica on our next cruise, and I've been wrestling with what to do. If I simply boycott the island and stay on board, then I'm not really helping the LGBT people there. In the short run, homophobes will be happier I've stayed on board; in the long run, everyone loses. I've never been sure about the boycott route.

But then I realized that the better thing to do with the money I would normally spend (on excursions, food on the island, souveniers and so on) is of course to donate it to a Jamaican or International LGBT organization. Two that I've found are http://www.jflag.org and http://www.iglhrc.org (though admittedly, I've just started to look and don't know a lot about them yet).

So we'll enjoy a lovely sea day just outside of Jamaica and hope that our donation helps just the littlest bit.

I cant see putting them in the same category.

A year and a half ago I stayed on St. maarten for 5 days and nights before boarding the Star Clipper. I stayed at a gay owned and operated small hotel on the Dutch side....hotel Delfina.

Getting transportation from the airport to the hotel did not result in any negative comment nor looks from the cab driver. At no time did I feel unsafe and walked most places. I never got any negative feedback from shop owners nor restaurant employees when asked where I was staying. The small gay beach seemed very safe and I met both gay and straight people on the beach....many in their birthday suits.

On a number of nights there were a number of us that went out to dine....there was no hiding the fact that we were all gay...even in the casino we were all treated well even those of us that watched the gambling and did not bet. So to read the story about the attack was startling...and so sad.

When there on a day stop off a ship I normally take the catermaran (Golden Eagle)to small island for swimming and snorkling. The crew treats the gay passengers like family.....I would do it again as a wonderful day excursion.

If attacks on the island continue.....my opinion will shift.

As for Jamaica....I will not get off the ship. The verbal abuse harassment and ill manners for any passenger getting off the boat is the worst I have ever seen on this planet.....the treatment of gays and lesbians is repulsive....gee where is Mr. Bush when it comes to human rights....whoops....politics popping out....sorry.

If I get on a western caribbean cruise...which are often inexpensive ,will find me on board the ship spending my money on the crew (via tips)who live a tough life at sea.

Its a shame...Jamaica is a beautiful island.....with such hate....leave me on the ship.