West Coast B2B: PVSA Question

We're looking at a "possible" B2B on the Ruby this spring and wanted to see if it's kosher as far as the Passenger Vessel Service Act.

4/29 Ruby 6-night: Los Angeles>San Francisco> Astoria, OR> Victoria, BC> Vancouver, BC.

5/05 Ruby 1-night:Vancouver, BC > Seattle, WA

I'm not sure if the stop in Oregon makes Vancouver distant enough to stay aboard the Ruby. If not, we'll disembark in Vancouver and shuttle to SEA but it would be nice to squeeze another day on the ship.

Thanks in advance!

We're looking at a "possible" B2B on the Ruby this spring and wanted to see if it's kosher as far as the Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

4/29 Ruby 6-night: Los Angeles > Seattle, WA

 

I'm not sure if the stop in Oregon makes Vancouver distant enough to stay aboard the Ruby. If not, we'll disembark in Vancouver and shuttle to SEA but it would be nice to squeeze another day on the ship.

 

Thanks in advance!

Technically, you are embarking in Los Angeles (US city) and disembarking in Seattle (US city). That is a violation of the PVSA. It doesn't matter which ports are in between. The only way this works is if you overnight in Vancouver and catch a different ship. I have met people who have planned it just right. They got off one ship and boarded another ship on the same day. That seemed like fun.

We're looking at a "possible" B2B on the Ruby this spring and wanted to see if it's kosher as far as the Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

4/29 Ruby 6-night: Los Angeles>San Francisco> Astoria, OR> Victoria, BC> Vancouver, BC.

5/05 Ruby 1-night:Vancouver, BC > Seattle, WA

 

I'm not sure if the stop in Oregon makes Vancouver distant enough to stay aboard the Ruby. If not, we'll disembark in Vancouver and shuttle to SEA but it would be nice to squeeze another day on the ship.

 

Thanks in advance!

No, Vancouver is not considered a distant foreign port.

You would need to be off the ship a full 24 hours or change ships.

Thank you cr8tiv1 and Colo Cruiser for your fast and informative replies. We kinda thought that but I wanted to confirm with the experts first. Looks like another QuikShuttle ride to SEA!

Steve

We're looking at a "possible" B2B on the Ruby this spring and wanted to see if it's kosher as far as the Passenger Vessel Service Act.

 

4/29 Ruby 6-night: Los Angeles>San Francisco> Astoria, OR> Victoria, BC> Vancouver, BC.

5/05 Ruby 1-night:Vancouver, BC > Seattle, WA

 

I'm not sure if the stop in Oregon makes Vancouver distant enough to stay aboard the Ruby. If not, we'll disembark in Vancouver and shuttle to SEA but it would be nice to squeeze another day on the ship.

 

Thanks in advance!

It's unlikely Princess would even let you book this combination as it clearly violates the PVSA. If you can find another ship to Seattle that would be okay, otherwise you will require another travel method.

I'm not sure if the stop in Oregon makes Vancouver distant enough to stay aboard the Ruby.

"Distant enough" is not how it works. "Distant foreign ports" are defined by the PVSA to be ports on other continents. Another North American port is never a "distant foreign port" no matter how far it is from the U.S. ports on the itinerary.

In practice, any port Panama and north is not distant nor are any Caribbean islands except the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao) which are specifically defined as distant (I guess since they're just off the South American coast, they're get treated as South America). Greenland is considered distant which is how the specialty Alaska to East Coast via the Northwest Passage cruises meet the requirement.

I think that the 4/29 itinerary would be OK because of the Victoria stop. But the 5/5 would appear to be a clear violation. But the PVSA is not as simple as many of us would believe, so you need to call the cruise line and get the definitive ruling. The post that says you cannot start at a US Port and end at another US Port is incorrect. You can do this as long as the itinerary satisfies the "distant foreign port" requriement (we think that Victoria meets this test).

But now I have a question for the real experts :). Assume you are doing an itinerary such as the 4/29 cruise (or many Alaskan cruises that use Victoria as their foreign port) and the ship cannot get into Victoria because of weather related issues. This would, in theory, put the ship into clear violation of the PVSA and subject the cruise line to a fine of $300 per person. Or would it? Does anyone know if the feds give a waiver under such circumstances?

Hank

I think that the 4/29 itinerary would be OK because of the Victoria stop. But the 5/5 would appear to be a clear violation. But the PVSA is not as simple as many of us would believe, so you need to call the cruise line and get the definitive ruling. The post that says you cannot start at a US Port and end at another US Port is incorrect. You can do this as long as the itinerary satisfies the "distant foreign port" requriement (we think that Victoria meets this test).

The 4/29 cruise, on its own, is OK not because of Victoria (which is not a "distant foreign port" - see my post above) but because it ends in CANADA. Vancouver, being in Canada and not in the U.S., makes it an international journey and therefore not limited by the PVSA. Likewise, 5/5 on its own is legal because it goes from Canada to the U.S.

But the PVSA cares only about where a passenger and embarks and disembarks and does not care about how the cruise line markets it. So doing them B2B is not legal because it's Los Angeles (U.S.) to Seattle (a different U.S. Port) without a "distant foreign port" being visited.

U.S. port to same U.S. port requires visiting any foreign port. U.S. port to different U.S. port requires visiting a distant foreign port. U.S. port to foreign port or v.v. is always OK.

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I think that the 4/29 itinerary would be OK because of the Victoria stop. But the 5/5 would appear to be a clear violation. But the PVSA is not as simple as many of us would believe, so you need to call the cruise line and get the definitive ruling. The post that says you cannot start at a US Port and end at another US Port is incorrect. You can do this as long as the itinerary satisfies the "distant foreign port" requriement (we think that Victoria meets this test).

 

But now I have a question for the real experts :). Assume you are doing an itinerary such as the 4/29 cruise (or many Alaskan cruises that use Victoria as their foreign port) and the ship cannot get into Victoria because of weather related issues. This would, in theory, put the ship into clear violation of the PVSA and subject the cruise line to a fine of $300 per person. Or would it? Does anyone know if the feds give a waiver under such circumstances?

 

Hank

As lstone says, Victoria is not a distant foreign port, so while the two cruises separately are legal, when combined they are not.

Waivers to the PVSA are routinely granted for weather or mechanical difficulties.

...U.S. port to same U.S. port requires visiting any foreign port. U.S. port to different U.S. port requires visiting a distant foreign port. U.S. port to foreign port or v.v. is always OK.

 

THANK YOU!!! This really just made it very clear for me.

It always miffs us to get caught in this sort of conundrum. My wife tried to get us on a B2B on the Ruby last year. LA to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Ketchikan and back to Seattle. It only took about 3 hours before we got a call from Princess asking which cruise we wanted to cancel. :mad:

I think that the 4/29 itinerary would be OK because of the Victoria stop. But the 5/5 would appear to be a clear violation. But the PVSA is not as simple as many of us would believe, so you need to call the cruise line and get the definitive ruling. The post that says you cannot start at a US Port and end at another US Port is incorrect. You can do this as long as the itinerary satisfies the "distant foreign port" requriement (we think that Victoria meets this test). Victoria does not satisfy this requirement for these two cruises.

 

But now I have a question for the real experts :). Assume you are doing an itinerary such as the 4/29 cruise (or many Alaskan cruises that use Victoria as their foreign port) and the ship cannot get into Victoria because of weather related issues. This would, in theory, put the ship into clear violation of the PVSA and subject the cruise line to a fine of $300 per person. Or would it? Does anyone know if the feds give a waiver under such circumstances?

 

Hank

I did a very short round trip LA to LA. It was too dangerous to tender to Santa Catalina and that was replaced with a day in San Diego. The Captain tried to enter Ensenada (foreign port/closed loop) three times before giving up and we had a second sea day. We had to circle and circle and circle until a Mexican official came on board to sign us off. It was dubbed the cruise to no where.

LA to LA closed loop to Hawaii also uses Ensenada as their "foreign" port. LA to LA coastal is the same. LA to LA south does not use Ensenada because they visit many "foreign" ports. Therefore, a closed loop doesn't have to visit a "distant" foreign port. It is only when your embarkation and disembarkation are different United States cities do they need a distant foreign port. That is why the Panama Canal cruise from LA to FLL stops in Aruba for a couple of hours. PVSA is a United States Maritime law. It does not apply to cruises that start or end in a foreign country (Vancouver, Australia, Chile, etc).