Do you think Cahill is making Carnival Stronger

[halos]

So you are saying... (and I like to make this clear, I have yet to cruise) the money you pay for what you get is not worth it anymore?

 

.

 

No. It means just what it says...you GET what you pay for.

The prices are cheap and the cruise experience becoming 'cheap' as well.

 

You pay CZ prices, you are NOT getting a diamond.

make sense??

 

This isn't about doing it better AND cheaper. I want better and don't mind paying a little more to get it...which is why I am 'wandering'

 

It used to be that CCL had great prices compared to everyone else, but they gave you a product equally as good, if not BETTER than the other lines.

Now, this isn't so.

 

SO, there is less motivation to book with them now.

[Aknot]

No. It means just what it says...you GET what you pay for.

The prices are cheap and the cruise experience becoming 'cheap' as well.

 

You pay CZ prices, you are NOT getting a diamond.

make sense??

 

This isn't about doing it better AND cheaper. I want better and don't mind paying a little more to get it...which is why I am 'wandering'

 

It used to be that CCL had great prices compared to everyone else, but they gave you a product equally as good, if not BETTER than the other lines.

Now, this isn't so.

 

SO, there is less motivation to book with them now.

 

So they are giving you "less" a product while still keeping the better price?

 

However for a little more (price) you are willing to pay for a better product?

 

What I get from that is you expect "level 10", once it drops below level 10 you still want level 10 and are willing to pay top dollar for it.

 

Which I understand.

 

See when it is said " Carnival was once "the best value for your dollar" That means to me you are no longer getting the best value for your dollar.

 

then to follow it up with: but now its leaning towards "you get what you pay for" territory. Prompted my reply.

 

(I was quoting luv2 not you)

[Aknot]

Answers in bold.

 

Yes I stand corrected. Cheap should not have been used.

 

50% was just used as a base number it is easier to "see" half and use it when explaiing.

 

What is it saying? It is saying they have a succesful business model. Until you lose them in droves and not make up for them they will continue to service this way.

 

Now for my first cruise if I had a choice of Carnival for the 2k or a run down 5 man yacht with only thing to eat was fish I caught.... well I woudl take carnival. However (again no expierence and jsut reading) it doesnt look like the Carnival "gap" with any other cruise line is that great UNLESS you desire the higher level and higher cost associated.

 

We cant really talk about "preference' though when we are speaking about the "business" of the cruise line. Apaprently there are those out there that are making up the market share of the people they are losionmg as they sail full.

 

Who knows they may continue to "drop" until they see a decline. However until they do they wont.

 

Hope this makes sense im doing set in between typing and I get poky... :D

[glrounds]

The Victory just sucks...

 

 

 

 

(Said then said it now and will always say it- worst cruise ever)

 

I'd have to agree with you wholeheartedly and I've cruised on her TWICE ! ! :eek: Conquest class is my least favorite class and the bluish-green theme on the Victory is horrendous, IMHO. It just happened to be my cruisemates favorite Carnival ship, so I went along with the program. :confused: As always, I did have a lot of fun though. :D

[steveNcindy]

What is it saying? It is saying they have a succesful business model. Until you lose them in droves and not make up for them they will continue to service this way.

 

I am the one who drunkenly put up this poll the other night and I think, now sober for the time being, this statement sums up my feelings.

 

I take one cruise or southern vacation per year so I make it worthwhile. I am not so concerned with the base price as I pick the cabin I want and pay to get it, don't concern myself too much with the onboard account and drop a good penny Carnival's way by way of drinks, specialty restaurants, spa and casino. In return, I want a reasonable level of quality which I saw a difference in this winter versus my first 2 Carnival cruises in 05 and 06 and far less than what I experienced on Princess in 08. Also I don't want to feel like a criminal if I choose to bring on more than the alloted 2 bottles of wine. If I am enjoying the balcony late at night and want one more glass of wine I don't want to have to schlep halfway across a football field to get one. If I want to be babysat, harped at with rules and dictated to, I would vacation at my ex wife's house for the week.

 

It just seems to me, with the recent onslaught of rules, Cahill is saying "our way or make a different choice, all good with me as our ships are sailing full and will continue to do so". That likely, as someone else stated due to the 92% of the population who hasn't cruised and is a huge target market, is true.

 

However, is Carnival better off in the long run if I choose to book my balcony cabin on another line or make a different vacation choice altogether and fill my spot with the cruiser who is on a much tighter budget, books the lowest rate cabin and doesn't spend much onboard :confused:

[Aknot]

 

However, is Carnival better off in the long run if I choose to book my balcony cabin on another line or make a different vacation choice altogether and fill my spot with the cruiser who is on a much tighter budget, books the lowest rate cabin and doesn't spend much onboard :confused:

 

Well then that will just take Cruising back to the day when only certain people could afford it.

 

Which I really dont think there are enough of those people around now. So they would have to dratically cut lines ports etc and trim it down to on eor two ships.... (jsut example)

 

However I understand and am greatful that Cruise prices are what they are and hope I get a fraction of the service (good service.. :P ) I read about here.

 

If I dont I jsut wont cruise again.

[TheTravelista]

Aknot I know you will enjoy your cruise. You seem very open minded and have the perfect attitude for this type of thing. Very go with the flow. Happy sailing :)

[steveNcindy]

Well then that will just take Cruising back to the day when only certain people could afford it.

 

 

Too much capacity around now for that happen, prices will stay down on all lines as there are many berths to fill each week

[Aknot]

Aknot I know you will enjoy your cruise. You seem very open minded and have the perfect attitude for this type of thing. Very go with the flow. Happy sailing :)

 

NEVER!!!!!

 

 

:D

 

I kid. Thank you. I hope all your vacations have the sun above with a calm breeze behind you.

[big_duck]

Also I don't want to feel like a criminal if I choose to bring on more than the alloted 2 bottles of wine.

 

Rules for bringing wine and booze on board are the same as they were under Bob, only the level of enforcement has changed. IMHO this change has less to do with revenue then the level of abuse which has risen exponentially over the last year or so. I mean, have you read some of those "this is what I got away with" posts.

[n2rav4]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct:

 

There have been several posters to this thread that have "wandered" away from Carnival because they have not "raised" their rates to keep providing the same service they received over 10 years ago. Said posters no longer like the Carnival value to service received, yet continue to post to the "Carnival" boards.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong:

 

Carnival's business plan is to sail ships every week @ 100% capacity. By meeting this plan, they continue to offer affordable cruises. If they continue to allow "smugglers" to bring outside alcohol, thereby decreasing their bar sales/increasing bar prices, customers complain. If they enforce smuggling rules, alcoholics will result to purchasing bar drinks, allowing prices to maintain, yet smugglers complain.

 

If 92% of the population have not experienced cruising, is it not the smart business practice to attract that customer segment? If the remaining 8% say f*&k you Carnival, I'm going to NCL to pay an arm & a leg, but be treated like royalty and get free stuff (which is what, exactly?), then I do not think it would be hard for Carnival to fill that 8% gap.

 

So, bottom line....

 

Why are there so many Carnival haters reading/posting/replying in the Carnival boards? Posting things that Mr. Cahill is doing wrong is going to be read by Mr. Cahill? ---Crazy, I know:D

[halos]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct:

 

There have been several posters to this thread that have "wandered" away from Carnival because they have not "raised" their rates to keep providing the same service they received over 10 years ago. Said posters no longer like the Carnival value to service received, yet continue to post to the "Carnival" boards.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong:

 

Carnival's business plan is to sail ships every week @ 100% capacity. By meeting this plan, they continue to offer affordable cruises. If they continue to allow "smugglers" to bring outside alcohol, thereby decreasing their bar sales/increasing bar prices, customers complain. If they enforce smuggling rules, alcoholics will result to purchasing bar drinks, allowing prices to maintain, yet smugglers complain.

 

If 92% of the population have not experienced cruising, is it not the smart business practice to attract that customer segment? If the remaining 8% say f*&k you Carnival, I'm going to NCL to pay an arm & a leg, but be treated like royalty and get free stuff (which is what, exactly?), then I do not think it would be hard for Carnival to fill that 8% gap.

 

So, bottom line....

 

Why are there so many Carnival haters reading/posting/replying in the Carnival boards? Posting things that Mr. Cahill is doing wrong is going to be read by Mr. Cahill? ---Crazy, I know:D

 

what makes you think any of us hate Carnival???

Did you see anyone even come close to saying that??

[n2rav4]

what makes you think any of us hate Carnival???

Did you see anyone even come close to saying that??

 

 

Is "dislike" a better description?

[steveNcindy]

If 92% of the population have not experienced cruising, is it not the smart business practice to attract that customer segment? If the remaining 8% say f*&k you Carnival, I'm going to NCL to pay an arm & a leg, but be treated like royalty and get free stuff (which is what, exactly?), then I do not think it would be hard for Carnival to fill that 8% gap.

 

Not a Carnival hater - didn't say that. What I am wondering is do you think Cahill's policies and changes are driving / going to drive repeat cruisers (those who do recognize some things in decline) to other vacation choices?

 

And if Cahill reads this so be it, I would welcome his reply.

 

I do agree with you - Carnival will quite likely not have trouble filling the cabin I am not booking with them. But will they be better off without the money they know they would get out of me or the unknown revenue they will generate from a bargain shopping 1st time cruiser.

[halos]

Is "dislike" a better description?

 

 

no...not for me anyway.

I don't dislike CCL.

I dislike the direction it's going though.

 

isn't it funny?..one week I can be labeled a cheerleader and the next a 'hater'

:rolleyes:

 

.

 

 

 

I do agree with you - Carnival will quite likely not have trouble filling the cabin I am not booking with them.

absolutely agree.

[DGP1111]

And correct me if I'm wrong:

 

.

.

If 92% of the population have not experienced cruising, is it not the smart business practice to attract that customer segment? If the remaining 8% say f*&k you Carnival, I'm going to NCL to pay an arm & a leg, but be treated like royalty and get free stuff (which is what, exactly?), then I do not think it would be hard for Carnival to fill that 8% gap.

 

.

If "92% of the population have (sic) not experienced cruising", would that not indicate that the "8% gap" is actually 100% of the current cruising population??

 

No cruise line (or any business for that matter) can easily refill 100% of their customer base. So I think your analogy is a bit off-center within this thread.

 

Also, if a portion of your 8%, who've been loyal to particular lines, become dissatisfied and begin to offer negative feedback to others making decisions for their future vacation plans . . . that's the type of marketing that can cause some real, and lasting, issues. I would venture to bet there are quite a lot of CruiseCritic members who are known in their respective circles (office, church, clubs, etc.) as the "cruising authorities". Tick them off and suddenly the negativity has legs.

 

As is often said . . . Good news travels fast but, unfortunately, bad news travels even faster.

[Aknot]

But will they be better off without the money they know they would get out of me or the unknown revenue they will generate from a bargain shopping 1st time cruiser.

 

It depends. Again IF you lose the bargain shopper how do you fill the seats to 100% on all ships all the time?

 

We kind of discussed this... it is to late.

 

Now it also appears you are saying they wont be able to make a profit because of cruisers like me that may (or may not) spend money on the extras as we may be quite happy just getting away at what appears a good price to provided ratio.

 

Or they may find themselves spending to much and not getting back enough due to cruisers like me.

 

Issue is we dont know the exact overhead mark and with ships sailing at 100% (what a couple thousand people? hahah I dont even know how many people my cruise ship Pride will hold.. O.O just looked it up 3280... wow.) we dont know where there line is they need to hit.

 

I dont mind the label. Ive said it in other threads If you are going to give me something worth $100 and I only have to pay a fraction of that (and it is acceptable) I would be a fool not to take advantage of it. Cheap, Thrifty, Smart Shopper, etc... Doesnt really matter to me. :D

[jimbo5544]

.

If "92% of the population have (sic) not experienced cruising", would that not indicate that the "8% gap" is actually 100% of the current cruising population??

 

No cruise line (or any business for that matter) can easily refill 100% of their customer base. So I think your analogy is a bit off-center within this thread.

 

Also, if a portion of your 8%, who've been loyal to particular lines, become dissatisfied and begin to offer negative feedback to others making decisions for their future vacation plans . . . that's the type of marketing that can cause some real, and lasting, issues. I would venture to bet there are quite a lot of CruiseCritic members who are known in their respective circles (office, church, clubs, etc.) as the "cruising authorities". Tick them off and suddenly the negativity has legs.

 

As is often said . . . Good news travels fast but, unfortunately, bad news travels even faster.

 

Wow, I read this reply twice and still not sure I understand it..... Only comment I would make is that Cruise Critic cruisers represent a very small portion of repeat cruisers.

[steveNcindy]

Now it also appears you are saying they wont be able to make a profit because of cruisers like me that may (or may not) spend money on the extras as we may be quite happy just getting away at what appears a good price to provided ratio.

 

 

The least expensive customer to maintain is your existing customer. The most expensive customers are the one's you don't have yet - the one's you have to attract.

 

This is especially true for the cruise industry. What costs more - a phone call now and then or email from a PVP to their client base or a multi million dollar advertising campaign trying to convince 92% of the population that a cruise vacation is for them??

 

If you whittle down progressively the existing inexpensive to maintain base of customers and rely on the new customers cost and overheads corporately will rise. What happens then??

[n2rav4]

What I am wondering is do you think Cahill's policies and changes are driving / going to drive repeat cruisers (those who do recognize some things in decline) to other vacation choices?

 

 

I agree there are some things being changed that are a little too "cost savings"; however I wouldn't place all of the blame on Cahill. Carnival has ALWAYS been considered the cheaper cruise line. After the economic collapse and oil prices sky rocketing, Carnival managed to keep their prices stable, which in return kept the struggling families able to continue to cruise, or try cruising for the first time.

 

Now the company's decision--whether it be Cahill's direct order, or another department head's--to cut certain things, or reduce certain things; that in itself may drive away repeat customers. But I still think that even with reduced amenities or eliminated amenities, repeat customers are still not going to find the "Carnival bargain" in other lines...its like comparing apples to oranges.

 

I would like to find out who made the decision to permit smoking on the Paradise--that person should be fired, imo!!:D

[DGP1111]

wow, i read this reply twice and still not sure i understand it

 

sorry 'bout that.

 

only comment i would make is that cruise critic cruisers represent a very small portion of repeat cruisers.

 

absolutely correct.

my comment was to indicate that cc members might often be regarded by others as the most 'cruise educated', and therefore someone others might seek to get cruise/vacation opinions.

 

. . . . . .

[jimbo5544]

. . . . . .

 

OK...get it

[Aknot]

 

This is especially true for the cruise industry. What costs more - a phone call now and then or email from a PVP to their client base or a multi million dollar advertising campaign trying to convince 92% of the population that a cruise vacation is for them??

 

 

However what happens if after my cruise I tell 2 of my cheap friends and they tell theirs etc.

 

Tounge in cheek there with the cheap friends. However I have had 2 look at me like I was crazy as it was so expensive. They are waiting for me to come back to let them know if it was worth it.

 

I have 2 coworkers one went on her first and loved it (with Carnval of course) and another that has been on RC and Carnival and said there was not that big of a difference. Stuff like that only solidifies my desire to book again if my current expected experience is worth it.

 

And just for funsies I got the cruise bug by walking pass this...while on business travel.

[steveNcindy]

Tounge in cheek there with the cheap friends. However I have had 2 look at me like I was crazy as it was so expensive. They are waiting for me to come back to let them know if it was worth it.

 

 

I don't doubt you will come back and have had a wonderful vacation. I would think quite likely you will look at booking your next cruise as well so after returning.

 

Let me ask you this though, let's say you patronize the same fast food restaurant. There are other fast food restaurants offering essentially the same product but the one you like is a little bit cheaper. You go in, order a burger and thoroughly enjoy it. You keep going back and ordering the same burger because you like it. You notice however that instead of a 5 oz burger, it is now smaller but the price hasn't changed. You keep on going and a few visits later the burger gets smaller again and is now more chewy and fatty. Price hasn't changed, still the least expensive burger around but you have noticed that the quality is going down and the value of the burger seems less now. They have made some other changes too - watery drinks, less staff to take orders, more dirty table due to less staff cleaning them.

 

1) Do you continue to patronize that restaurant or do you venture out and try something different.

2) Do you think the manager / executive of this restaurant is doing a good job by implementing these quality related changes?

[n2rav4]

I don't doubt you will come back and have had a wonderful vacation. I would think quite likely you will look at booking your next cruise as well so after returning.

 

Let me ask you this though, let's say you patronize the same fast food restaurant. There are other fast food restaurants offering essentially the same product but the one you like is a little bit cheaper. You go in, order a burger and thoroughly enjoy it. You keep going back and ordering the same burger because you like it. You notice however that instead of a 5 oz burger, it is now smaller but the price hasn't changed. You keep on going and a few visits later the burger gets smaller again and is now more chewy and fatty. Price hasn't changed, still the least expensive burger around but you have noticed that the quality is going down and the value of the burger seems less now. They have made some other changes too - watery drinks, less staff to take orders, more dirty table due to less staff cleaning them.

 

1) Do you continue to patronize that restaurant or do you venture out and try something different.

2) Do you think the manager / executive of this restaurant is doing a good job by implementing these quality related changes?

 

 

OR 3)Do you patronize a different restaurant that already has a reputation of overpriced food, and continues to raise their prices?:D