Is it time to change the policy on auto tipping?

[Ontario Cruiser]

Automatic tip should be non negotible never ever be able to be removed. Pay the 11dollars per day and give extra in cash to crew, you will feel good about yourself.

 

I completely agree with you. I will be flamed but I think that they should not be able to be removed but I don't think anyone has to feel quilty if they do not tip over and above.

Ontario Cruiser

[debsjc]

Phillip217, another Cruise Line Officer mentioned this in one of his posts:

"Most cruise line waiters are promised a MINIMUM GUARANTEED SALARY of around US$1600 - US$2200 PER MONTH."

 

While that may sound good for a US waiter working a 40 hour workweek, its not a good salary for an international worker working with a 70 hour workweek...

 

Doesn't that depends on the cost of living in their home country, where they are supporting their families? Having travelled around the far east, not on cruises, I suggest that is a VERY high wage for that part of the world.

 

I think the cruise ship staff work long hours, and do an excellent job, therefore they deserve the tips or service charge. However I don't think we should assume they are poorly paid by their national standards.

 

If we are busy at work sometimes we do 16 hour shifts and without a break, a lot of people in the world do work hard!

[dot73]

I think the whole problem with tipping would be solved if the cruiselines added the hotel service charge as part of the price of the cruise that had to be paid ahead of the cruise. It should be added just as the port charges and taxes are added to the price of the cruise. I think you would then have a happy crew who were earning a good base salary and who could also supplement their salary with extra tips for going above the standard of service. As for the passengers who now remove the auto tips, they could make the choice of whether they wanted to cruise or take another form of vacation.

[m steve]

If you sail for 10 days the two of you will be paying $220 per cabin. I doubt if many people will pull out a $100 bill for the cabin attendants and the dining room waiter if they take fixed dining. If they choose ayw dining that means leaving a tenner on the table each night. And the assistants and maitre D' will probably be stiffed unless the one getting the tips chooses to share. The auto tip seems fair for both worker and passenger and you don't have to have a lot of cash around to hand out. Supplemental tips for exceptional service can always be given and my experience has been that the staff on HAL strive to make your cruise very enjoyable.

[Stevesan]

I think the whole problem with tipping would be solved if the cruiselines added the hotel service charge as part of the price of the cruise that had to be paid ahead of the cruise. It should be added just as the port charges and taxes are added to the price of the cruise. I think you would then have a happy crew who were earning a good base salary and who could also supplement their salary with extra tips for going above the standard of service. As for the passengers who now remove the auto tips, they could make the choice of whether they wanted to cruise or take another form of vacation.

 

 

Then we'd have endless threads discussing whether to tip or not to tip, how much and when to tip, returning us to pre-autotip days. :o

[dot73]

Then we'd have endless threads discussing whether to tip or not to tip, how much and when to tip, returning us to pre-autotip days. :o

 

No kidding:D People will always find something to complain about.

[cruiseing marly]

Charging grats. on a daily bases is required as most cruisers would think that one hundred dollars is a large tip . On longer cruises this is nothing the staff would not be compensated properly due to a lack of understanding and unwilling ness to tip the required amount .A 25 day cruise grats should be from 600- 1000 dollars for two the majority would not reach that deeply into there pockets. This may seem to be high but is a quite low when you look at the amount of service given.

[Juanita462]

We have made friends with many of the crew that we have sailed with.

 

Here are some of the comments they have made to us;

 

"we have managers who make sure we get the best contract available for us"

 

"I was working in a 4 star hotel in Dubai and my manager got me a contract to work on this ship as a better deal for me, even though I was in line for a promotion"

 

"I only have to work on the ships for 8 years and I can retire in comfort to my home area"

 

"I have to be on the phone at every port as we are getting a new house built and there are so many details to take care of"

 

"I am taking a year off after this cruise" when asked if he would be working at home he replied "no, just doing family things like driving my daughter to school."

 

"It costs us very little to live in Indonesia"

 

"Our uniforms are custom made for us and we pay for them but at the end of our contract the cruise line buys them back from us for what we paid for them"

 

finally "a good report on your comment card is worth more to me than any tip you could give me"

 

On one cruise they charged all pax every 2 weeks through our credit cards for any amounts owing and the explanation made for this was that the HSC was part of the crew's wages and they had to be paid every 2 weeks so they needed that money to pay them. Interesting - and only happened on that once cruise.

[Hlitner]

Automatic tip should be non negotible never ever be able to be removed. Pay the 11dollars per day and give extra in cash to crew, you will feel good about yourself.

 

This again raised the point that if its automatic and non-removable it is not a tip or gratuity but simply a fee! That being the case it should be simply added to the cruise fare which would make this entire thread moot.

 

Hank

[photomikey]

I think the whole problem with tipping would be solved if the cruiselines added the hotel service charge as part of the price of the cruise that had to be paid ahead of the cruise.

 

This again raised the point that if its automatic and non-removable it is not a tip or gratuity but simply a fee! That being the case it should be simply added to the cruise fare which would make this entire thread moot.

 

They used to include it in the cruise fare. they called this "no tipping required". Unfortunately, the passengers of the ship insisted on tipping anyhow, more and more and more, to the point where the cruise line finally started a "recommended" tip and put it on the bill. Now the same people who insisted on tipping before insist on tipping on top of this charge now, in addition to tipping for things like room service, which are already covered by the auto-tip.

 

In short, if they included the tip in the bill, people would tip anyway, and look down their nose upon those who were taking the cruise line's advice - that the tip was included in the bill.

[Junonia]

This may have been covered before during this thread- but I have to ask...What kind of "service fee does HAL take out of the $11 per day charge for themselves? I have to suspect, as the governing body, they believe some of the money belongs to the house. I couldn't get an answer to this question. Someone did mention the dishwashers share in the tip pool. Huh? Shouldn't they get a fixed salary?

 

I just got back from a HAL cruise and our solution, however imperfect, was to take half of the tipping fee away from the shipboard account and distribute it to the people who waited on us (stewards, dining room etc) in CASH.

 

I know these guys are paid slave wages ($10 a week or so), so this has to be better than letting HAL do the accounting. I could be wrong, but we were very generous in our tipping all week and were treated like royalty everywhere we went.

[sail7seas]

This may have been covered before during this thread- but I have to ask...What kind of "service fee does HAL take out of the $11 per day charge for themselves? I have to suspect, as the governing body, they believe some of the money belongs to the house. I couldn't get an answer to this question. Someone did mention the dishwashers share in the tip pool. Huh? Shouldn't they get a fixed salary?

 

I just got back from a HAL cruise and our solution, however imperfect, was to take half of the tipping fee away from the shipboard account and distribute it to the people who waited on us (stewards, dining room etc) in CASH.

 

I know these guys are paid slave wages ($10 a week or so), so this has to be better than letting HAL do the accounting. I could be wrong, but we were very generous in our tipping all week and were treated like royalty everywhere we went.

 

By removing a portion of the automatic tip from your account and distributing cash to stewards, you made it mandatory they turn that cash over to be pooled and shared with all others. In the end, you gave them half the sum into the pool than what they would have gotten had you left your automatic tip in place.

 

Those stewards were not able to keep anything you gave them on their own and for themselves.

 

IF HAL keeps any portion for 'administration fee' or whatever, it is a well kept secret that no one here has ever learned of. I seriously doubt that happens.

[Junonia]

By removing a portion of the automatic tip from your account and distributing cash to stewards, you made it mandatory they turn that cash over to be pooled and shared with all others. In the end, you gave them half the sum into the pool than what they would have gotten had you left your automatic tip in place.

 

Those stewards were not able to keep anything you gave them on their own and for themselves.

 

IF HAL keeps any portion for 'administration fee' or whatever, it is a well kept secret that no one here has ever learned of. I seriously doubt that happens.

 

If that is true, then they ended up doing better anyway because half was in place via automatic tipping and half+extra was given in cash.

 

I didn't see a policy that stewards must turn in cash tips to be shared. How do you come about this information?

[sail7seas]

It is VERY well known on this board, has been posted by no fewer than 50 or more people and has been the policy since automatic service charge went into place on HAL ships.

 

If you remove any portion of the tips, anything you give on your own is pooled. Stewards must report and turn it in.

If you leave full automatic service charge in place on your account, anything over and above you give can be kept by the person to whom you give it.

 

Is this actually the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?? Who knows? All we do know here is that is the same thing all of us have been told.

 

 

[Junonia]

I was just wondering where you read about this policy or at least where you heard it from. Can you point me in the right direction? I would like to know for future cruises.

[sail7seas]

I was just wondering where you read about this policy or at least where you heard it from. Can you point me in the right direction? I would like to know for future cruises.

 

 

:D There is no way you are going to find it anywhere on the web for ANY cruise line. One of their closely held secrets......

What I posted is the official statement they give all guests. All of us. Every ship. Every cruise.

 

Would be really fun if you find an 'official source' on the interest that says anything different. I'd love to read that as I am sure many others would. Any official cruise line source that contradicts would be very, very interesting reading. PLEASE research and find such a source. :)

 

 

 

[RuthC]

If that is true, then they ended up doing better anyway because half was in place via automatic tipping and half+extra was given in cash.

But they did less "better" than you wanted, as the cash amount you gave had to be turned in to the pool---which was then distributed to everyone in the pool. Any excess was diluted by the extra people in the pool---people you did not wish to give extra to.

[dot73]

I once asked my room steward whether any of the crew "cheat" and pocket the money from a passengers who has opted out of the auto tip and give cash directly to the crew. He said that the crew are a very honourable bunch when it comes to pooling the money. I then asked how did they find out if someone cheats and keeps the money and if that person is "punished". He smiled and said that the ship is a very small place and everybody knows each other's business and it rarely happens. I would imagine a "cheater's" life could be made quite miserable if they were caught.

[RuthC]

I was just wondering where you read about this policy or at least where you heard it from. Can you point me in the right direction? I would like to know for future cruises.

IIRC, this policy was given as part of the disembarkation talks when it first came into effect.

For many of us it was a big change from "Tipping Not Required", and we were led through the change in minute detail so that we could understand. That goes back several years now, and it is no longer explained as thoroughly.

[AZNative2000]

I know these guys are paid slave wages ($10 a week or so)

 

If it's true, as has been reported here, that room stewards receive 35% of the service charge, I'm not sure it would be that horrible.

 

Our room stewards (team of two) told us they had 30 cabins to service. If that is 60 people, they split $231.00 per day (60 x $11 x .35). $115.50 each per day x 7 day cruise means $808.50 per week.

 

That is not exactly "slave wages". Of course, if travelers are canceling the "service charge", they would get less.

 

Yes, they do work 7 days a week but they do choose to sign up for that over and over so (obviously) they see an advantage for themselves. Again, someone posted that in addition, the crew gets room, board, clothing and cleaning so they can send their earnings home to their families of they so choose.

 

And, YES, we left our service charge in place and we did give them additional at the end of our cruise ... HAPPILY!:)

[Junonia]

I held an actual paycheck stub of one of the attendants (and no, I am not making this up). There was no breakdown of tipping by room cabin, just a line that said "tips" with a bulk sum. This person probably could have gotten fired for letting me see this, but I assure you, I did. People in prison make more than this in the USA, compared with the actual portion the cruise line paid.

 

Forgive me for being mistrusting of corporate nature, but having worked in banquets and food service I do know these two things:

a) The house always keeps a fee that they either call administrative or alternatively distribute it to some vague account that is supposed to offset their salaries to other behind the scenes employees and/or management. I once worked a Thanksgiving banquet at an exclusive county club where the wait staff was paid $125 each and the Maitre d' was paid $3500. Each guest in attendance has paid a 20% service charge for a $75 dinner (or $15 each). Each wait staff team (consisting of 2 people) was responsible for 3 tables of 10 guest apiece or 30 guests. You would *think* each team would have split $450, which is 30 guest @ $15. Instead, each team was given $250, or $125 each. So where did the other $200 go? Why the Maitre d' of course! You may be wondering how I know? I was dating the computer geek in charge of the county club at the time and he pulled it up on the computer and showed it to me. He paid himself $3500 and it was pathetic.

 

b) People from poor countries, such as Indonesia, are not likely to turn in a large cash bill for a tip pool! Heck, people from wealthy countries aren't likely to either. Even if there were cameras in the hallways, the denominations are not visible to big brother.

 

We as travelers are fortunate enough and moneyed enough to see the glamorous side of the ship. I try to see things from the underbelly. You really cannot believe everything you hear. If it were a written policy, that's one thing, but it's not. A corporation who pays slave wages and evades taxes of the countries they serve by registering in Liberia or Bahamas is not likely to not skim off the top of service fees. Every government in the world does this. Big corporations are no different.

[Opinions]

They used to include it in the cruise fare. they called this "no tipping required".

 

I have cruised HAL for about 45 years...At no time were tips included in the cruise fare..."Tipping Not Required" did not mean that gratuities were not welcome or expected...It certainly did not mean it was included in the fare...Certainly there were always a few who used it as a excuse not to tip.

[photomikey]

I have cruised HAL for about 45 years...At no time were tips included in the cruise fare..."Tipping Not Required" did not mean that gratuities were not welcome or expected...It certainly did not mean it was included in the fare...Certainly there were always a few who used it as a excuse not to tip.

I have cruised HAL for 5 years, so I don't have first hand experience - just hearsay. If I went to Joe's Restaurant, and below their name on the sign was "Tipping Not Required", I can tell you without further thought how much tip I would leave, and I don't think of myself as a cheapskate. I assume I am not in the minority when I say this.

[Jade13]

My DH knows someone who worked on a Princess ship in his 20's. He said the pay was very good and made about 50K and all deposited direct into his bank account. He had no expenses while at sea. He said because he was in international waters he did not have to pay US taxes (at least that is what he said), so good for someone younger who wishes to travel.

[Jade13]

I held an actual paycheck stub of one of the attendants (and no, I am not making this up). There was no breakdown of tipping by room cabin, just a line that said "tips" with a bulk sum. This person probably could have gotten fired for letting me see this, but I assure you, I did. People in prison make more than this in the USA, compared with the actual portion the cruise line paid.

.

 

So, what was the amount?