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Just back from Avalon Panorama


caviargal

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We took the Grand France this past September and it was outstanding. We were at the Normandy Cemetery on 9/11 and the Avalon people had arranged with the French guardians of the Cemetery to have a service there to remember the fallen of 9/11 and to honor our veterans on board. Quite moving. Also you will have the ability to do your own thing if you wish since you will be docked right by the old towns and can walk everywhere. Great trip and we loved Avalon--3rd cruise with them. As you say, food and beverage is to one's own taste, but the wine was certainly poured liberally when we were there and in fact some of us had both white and red at the same meal! (but then we were dining with Aussies and they are a great influence!!) c

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SunDapple, Caviargal, stretchcruise, webfoot, and all my other "friends" on the CC - We've left the Avalon Imagery and we're sitting on the runway waiting to take off from Amsterdam back to the US. I'll post a formal review of the cruise when I get back home. For now, let me just say the cruise was fine. I'll get into a little more detail in the formal review but everything was pretty much fine for the entire cruise. I'll be looking forward to hearing what Webfoot has to say (she's now on the Imagery heading east to the Baltic. The food and wine issue is going to be a very subjective assessment and has to be factored with each person's own personal expectations and history. I'll explain more later. Regards, Kelvin

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Kelvin, glad you enjoyed your trip and look forward to reading your review.

 

IME, the overall cruise experience can differ from ship to ship and even sailing to sailing on the same line as staff and other factors can change the overall experience.

 

We had three very good experiences with Avalon (Affinity back to back and Luminary) with wonderful food (the same head chef was on the three sailings and we were quite pleased with the dining experience overall) and free flowing wine. The sailing on the Panorama was simply not as expected based on past experiences.

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We are in Budapest now and everything has been great. It is an honor to have Patrick Clark, President of Avalon along with us. He has arranged several special trips for us and I understand there are a few more things to come in the following days.

 

From something I ate in Vienna, I had a touch of food poisoning and haven't been able to eat too much but the staff has been great by being sure I had broth soups, etc.

 

I hope tomorrow to start a thread here on Cruise Critic. Again, as Kelvin said, food is a personal choice but so far I have not heard any complaints!

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Caviargal and others - We might just break a record here and make your original post/thread one of the longest running conversations ever. I'm now sitting again on US soil in the Delta "Sky Club" at JFK airport waiting for the next leg of my journey home (JFK to my Dad's house in Tampa). Got to get him back home before rejoining the wife and cats back in Phoenix :) I spoke to several of my fellow travellers (now friends) onboard the Imagery on our last morning before departure. These folks have been on more cruises than I have (both river and ocean) and I told them I'd be posting a review on CC. I wanted to get their feelings about the cruise and I wanted to blend them into my review. Without any prompting at all, they each "slid into" the topic of "food" on the cruise. We all agreed that most everything was just great. Crew was friendly and efficient, the boat was in tip-top shape, the "free" WiFi (new this year) worked just fine except for a 30-hour period towards the end of the cruise between Grein and Vienna. The complimentary and "extra" tours in each town were wonderful and all the guides were most knowledgeable and friendly. So it all came down to "the food" that they wanted to talk about. And I guess we're talking about it because AVALON talks so much about it in their literature. If you read all the adjectives and superlatives that they use in their written material to describe their meals, they have made the food one of the "most important" parts of their cruise experience. Therefore, if it doesn't seem to meet those standards in the opinion of their customers, then it's kind of "their fault" - not ours! The food, in a word, was "okay". Not great, and not terrible. It was just "okay". A LOT of fish at a lot of meals! Along with the "default choice" of grilled breast of chicken. I didn't think the steaks were as good you could get at Ruth's Chis, or Morton's, or Outback, or on Kelvin's grill in the back yard. The fish wasn't as good as you can get at Bonefish, Landry's, or Fish Market, or even Red Lobster. The salads weren't as good at that served at Olive Garden. The deserts were not as good as you can get a Maria Callendar's, Cheesecake Factory, or the Village Inn. No hot pastas or Italian dishes were served (spaghetti/meatballs, lasagna, saltumbaca, etc.) but if they had been, it probably wouldn't have been as good as Carraba's or Romano's Macaroni Grill. The breakfasts were no better than what can be had at IHOP or Denny's. Okay, maybe you can't get smoked salmon at Denny's! But if someone is coming onboard who has never eaten at any of those other places, then they'll think the meals are perhaps "wonderful". But they did not "top" any of those other places that I have mentioned. I thought the wines and beer served were fine. No better/no worse than what I buy to serve in my own house. I would just suggest not going on board the boat expecting the meals to be something far superior to what you might have at many of the popular (and moderately priced) restaurants that we Americans generally have access to. I'm hoping we hear from others (including webfoot) on this subject during this cruising season. I also now have an appreciation for what Caviargal was saying in her original post. Regards to all.

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Kelvin, thanks for posting that level of detail as well as feedback from multiple sources. It is always interesting to get the perspective of others and I agree that expectations set by marketing influence our experience to a good degree.

 

On our first few cruises with Avalon food was consistently good to very good and much better than the moderately priced chain restaurants you named and superior to our expectations.

 

Did your menu selections include rack of lamb, roast duck, etc.? Were local dishes (venison, etc) offered? I am curious because our cruises in 2009 and 2010 did but not the most recent. I am wondering if there were menu changes fleetwide.

 

Thanks again for posting along the way and glad you enjoyed your cruise.

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Caviargal - Thanks for your continuing interest. I'm still operating off a little "note pad" that I bought for the trip, so composing/typing messages on it's tiny keyboard is a bit challenging. I'll have access to a full-size keyboard from tomorrow onwards so it will be easier to respond. Based upon what you have told me in the past, I think there probably has been a general "economizing" in the food budget. I saved (snitched) every night's dinner menu for future reference and to show my DW when I get home (I travelled with my Dad) so I'll be able to go back and definitively check all the food offerings and report back. I do recall that there was "roast duck" offered one night. My Dad ordered it and he said at the time that it was "tough and dry". I believe I ordered a fish alternative (there was a LOT of fish on the menu and not particularly memorable). I didn't order the duck because it just so happened that on that evening we were sitting at a window seat in the dining room as the sun was setting and I could look out and see all these nice happy little ducks swimming around our boat - and that "put me off" ordering it. We did have lamb one evening and I do enjoy lamb. BUT the lamb they served that night onboard was certainly not even close to being the finest (or even next to the finest) lamb that I have eaten elsewhere. The lamb chops I've ordered at Outback Steakhouse were BETTER, more flavorable, and a larger portion than what we had onboard the Imagery. There was no venison offered during the 13-day cruise. I do seem to recall "rack of rabbit" on the menu one night and I "passed" on that, as well. Let me review all my "snitched menus" and I'll get back to you on your question.

 

On a side note, I saw your response on another thread (Itinerary for 1st Cruise) and I thought your advice was excellent regarding the length for a "first cruise". After about the 8th day of our 13-day cruise, I was starting to get "cabin fever". After a while, each day started running into the next and I regrettably found myself just wanting it "over with". The weather was perfect, the staff were all friendly, and everything was being delivered as promised. I was just getting "antsy". One more small town, one more cathedral, one more walk around cute little cobble stone streets in a cute little village, etc For me, 13 days was just too long. My next river cruise, with the DW this time, will be shorter and we might do the Amsterdam to Basel run in 8 days, and will definitely build in some "land time" of several days before/after the cruise to do on our own.

 

Dad and I were staying in 1 of the 4 "deluxe suites" onboard the Imagery. The biggest rooms on the boat (at a damn hefty "upgrade" price for that, as well). As large and as "deluxe" as the industry might think those suites are, they're still less than HALF the size of a typical room/bath in a Hampton Inn (or a Hyatt Regency - I've stayed in both). I can't imagine how much smaller the "regular staterooms" on these boats must be. And according the Avalon, their staterooms are some of the largest among the river cruisers. It was nice checking into the Intercontinental Hotel in Vienna at the end of the cruise and being able to walk 8 feet in one direction without bumping into a wall or each other! But this probably wouldn't bother most of the other CC members. That's just me. More later. Regards to all. Kelvin

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With two weeks to go we are disapointed to read PingPongs post re the quality of the food. As has been discussed the spin from the brochures and video we have seen shows and talks about 5 star dining not average star dining .

We realize that food is a subjective thing but we are well aware of the difference between an average low cost meal and an high class 5 Star meal if the meals are not to our expectations then the cruise director will soon know about it.

Avalon( we know your watching ) perhaps it's time to stop penny pinching.!!!

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I am on the continuation of the cruise that Kelvin was on and I have had no food complaints. I go on cruises to enjoy the scenery and visiting the historical sights and to enjoy the local foods.

 

My husband had the lamb last night and it was very good. I ordered the salmon and loved how it was prepared.

 

I do not compare the food with that of US restaurant chains as there is variation in the quality of food from one location to the other.

 

I hope to spend part of our 'sailing' day to start writing up my impressions of this trip!

 

One last thought ... If you go on a river cruise just for the food, then perhaps you need to rethink your reason for travel.

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One last thought ... If you go on a river cruise just for the food, then perhaps you need to rethink your reason for travel.

 

Glad to hear you are enjoying your cruise.

 

We all have our own reasons for taking a river cruise and I think it is the sum of all parts that makes a trip a great experience - or not.

 

I did not read anyone that posted here went on a river cruise "just for the food" but food is an integral part of the overall experience for some of us. At the price point for river cruises, I believe it is a reasonable expectation to expect well prepared food of a high standard. Whether the line delivers is a matter of what we expect and enjoy IMO.

 

A big part of our enjoyment in visiting Europe is indeed the food. I personally look forward to lots of regional dishes and wines and have no interest in eating the same things I do at home. Travel for us is about experiencing the culture we are visiting, and that includes food.

 

We VERY rarely dine at chain restaurants here at home, nor do we eat fast food. We frequent locally owned restaurants with well prepared food and good service.

 

When any cruise line, ocean or river, emphasizes their dining experience in their marketing materials, IMO guests will have an expectation that dining is indeed a highlight of the overall experience.

 

<After about the 8th day of our 13-day cruise, I was starting to get "cabin fever". >

 

Kelvin, we felt the same way. We actually left the boat on day 8 of our 11 night trip and took a train into Munich to spend the night there, then returned late the next day to finish the cruise. We would not take a cruise longer than 7 nights.

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We are a party of 4 booked Budapest to Amsterdam April 25 on the Panorama we will be monitoring this thread and expect that Avalon will publish here how they have solved this problem of unacceptable food portions and quality along with quantity and quality of wine .

We booked this cruise based on promotional brochures from Avalon and also feed back from previous Avalon passengers if no assurance can be made by Avalon re this problem we will be forced to cancel.

We are booked on the same itinerary starting on May 23. We, too, are seriously thinking of canceling based on the comments here as well as others on other travel sites. It seems as if Avalon has clearly not lived up to expectations, and there are many other river cruises from which to choose.

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Hi Folks - Please don't let my own opinions in any way negatively influence your expectations and enjoyment of the present/future cruise experience for the rest of you! I used the chain restaurants only as a "yardstick" because it was a common reference that most of us are familiar with across many of the different locations that we all live in. I might add that I have had some really good meals at chains and I have had some really bad meals at sole-proprietorships. However, the latter rarely stay in business for very long if they don't meet the expectations of their clients or if the quality isn't commensurate with the price charged. I'm also hoping that Webfoot will continue to "weigh-in" as the cruise progresses, as she has done already, in order to get an immediate "second eyes" on the same boat that I just came off of. Since she has past river and ocean cruise dining experiences under her belt (no pun inteded) she is in a better position to critique whether the meals are better, worse, or about the same as she has experienced on similar cruises in the past and if it meets her expectation. Remember, I didn't say the lamb was "bad"! I ate everything I was served and I made no complaint about it. I just said it was "no better" than the lamb I have eaten in the past at Outback (BTW - I believe the quality of meals at Outback has fallen way off compared to where they were 2-3 years ago - the economy has taken it's toll on everyone). I ate the salmon onboard, as well and thought it was good. But again - no better than the salmon filets my DW has cooked for us in our own kitchen at home. I believe that Caviargal understood my point - dead on. Avalon is the one who has made "much ado" about their meals and the "total dining experience" in all their advertising literature - not me. They didn't use up pages of advertising talking about the quality of their guided tours or the seamenship skills of their captain, first mate, or boathandlers, as they did about the "dining experience". They "set the bar" and they chose the focus - I didn't. In their advertising, Avalon made their dining experience one of the "main reasons" why we should all choose one of their river cruises, vice choosing Tauck, or Uniworld, or Viking, etc. - not me. It would be nice if someone who had been on Seaborne, or Regent, or Windstar, or Cunard, etc. could compare those meals to Avalon. Then we would have some kind of "comparison" Actually, there were some nights when I would have just perferred to have had spaghetti and meatballs, a tossed salad, and piece of chocolate caked with vanilla ice cream for desert (not offered)! My views also communicated the feelings of 5 other fellow cruisers who all said they thought the meals were "OK" - not "bad" but not "fabulous", either. No one said the food was "substandard" and no one said the quality of the Avalon meals "ruined" the entire cruise for them. Caviargal didn't say that in her original post many months ago, either. They just all said it was not "far superior" to what might be commonly found elsewhere. They were also trying to put it in context with Avalon's own advertising material - which we all read and "digested" when we presumably made a booking decision. I certainly agree with one of the other posters who said you "don't go on the cruise for the food alone". That is correct, BUT - what does everyone normally "rave about", look forward to, and "expect" when they go on a cruise (rather than a "bus trip") - THE FOOD. I did not just go on the river cruise to eat, either. My scale shows I picked up about 5 pounds during the 2 weeks, so it wasn't that bad! But I do presume that the dining experience (and food served) was one of the "major cost components" when Avalon decides what to charge for their cruises. Again, I urge everyone with upcoming cruises to stay excited and NOT "beat up" on Avalon before you board the boat. You may find out that food fully met or exceeded what you were counting on. By the way, I really liked all the soups Avalon served! They were very tasty. I'll be compiling a list of the Entre's served on the cruise and will post it here. Best regards to all. Kelvin

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Again, I urge everyone with upcoming cruises to stay excited and NOT "beat up" on Avalon before you board the boat. You may find out that food fully met or exceeded what you were counting on.

 

Absolutely agree! The food on Affinity and Luminary exceeded my expectations consistently. Since those were my first river cruises I had only ocean cruises to compare them to and found the food to be better than we had experienced on recent Holland America and Celebrity cruises, both of which are considered premium lines. When we took a galley tour I was truly amazed at what the chef was able to put out.

 

Food is a very subjective thing and what one finds average another may find outstanding - and vice versa.

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Man, what a yo-yo thread this is.

 

You can please some people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time.

 

Hate to be blunt but why not give it a rest on the food put downs. When I go on a cruise and I don't like what I ordered I order something else. No need to ruin a trip bitching and complaining about it.

 

I have paid for the cruise. I am going to enjoy the cruise and the food. It is what it is.

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We have cruised with Avalon many times and at many of the ports I see food trucks and pallets on the dock waiting to be loaded. Yesterday, I spent 5 minutes trying to pick a good melon and it occurred to me that the chefs on ships (both ocean and river) pretty much have to depend upon someone else picking out their raw materials. After seeing the size of the kitchen on a river cruise I'm amazed that they can serve anything to 100+ people. BTW, my melon passed all of my tests but wasn't that tasty--I'm glad I didn't have to feed it to others.

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VikingJorg - Okay, we're going to take one last "whack" at this horse. Obviously, something keeps pulling you back to this thread repeatedly, even though it seems to be annoying you. NONE of us have said the trip was "ruined" because of the meals. NONE of us have even said the food was lousy. In fact, repeatedly, I have said "the food was okay". How is it that you're getting "bitching and complaining" out of that statement? I even stated that no one should draw any conclusions or judgements about Avalon based upon my (or Caviargal's) comments, alone. I would expect that Avalon would be even "happier" than you if this whole discussion just "disappeared". I also stated that I would be most happy if Webfoot continued to contribute to the discussion - which I believe she will. Most passengers are obviously quite happy with the food. Otherwise, Avalon would not be getting the number of repeat customers that they do. I didn't think the purpose of critques or reviews on this site were to merely "rubber stamp" the advertising material of these cruise companies. Are only "positive comments" allowed on this website? When I think of "elegant dining" (deserts, for instance), things like Baked Alaska, Cherries Jubilee, Bananas Foster, Peach Melba, and Italian Cream Cake come to mind. If THAT'S what anyone is expecting to be eating on this cruise (at least the one I was on) they would be disappointed, because those types of dishes were NOT served. I think that's all we were trying to point out. Perhaps the "horse is now dead"...RIP

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I think most of us benefit from candid dialogue on the message boards. I enjoyed reading this thread and learned from it. The poster who challenged it had the easy choice of moving on to other posts that were more to his or her liking. Please keep telling us what you think, the good, the bad and the ugly.

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I think most of us benefit from candid dialogue on the message boards.

 

Yes, and those that do not are not being forced to read the threads that annoy them so. Why they prefer to post and complain about a thread rather than ignore it since it annoys them so is beyond me.

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Keenmolly - I would feel sad if you cancelled your trip just because of something that I might have said or implied. You will find the things on the trip that you will enjoy. Every morning, I very much enjoyed and looked forward to the flutes of champagne I had with the smoked salmon and cream cheese! Each lunch, I enjoyed the the make-your-own salad bars with a selection of dressings and I enjoyed the cold-cuts (cold sliced meats and cheeses) that were available at every meal. My Dad loved the "make your own" ice cream deserts at the end of each lunch. At dinner, there were many different selections to choose from, as well. The included tours and guides that Avalon arranged for us in each port of call were all interesting and helped us "walk off" the calories we had packed away the evening before. Our weather was wonderful and I very much enjoyed sitting up on the Sky Deck while we were cruising down the Danube and just taking in the scenery. Like every vacation I ever took - there have been things I liked, things I didn't like quite so much, and other things that were "just fine". The vast majority of people I spoke with on our cruise were having an overall good time. We'll all be looking forward to your report - both the positve AND the negative when you get back. Have a GREAT time! Regards, Kelvin

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Hi all

PingPong ,while we did float the possibility of canceling way back in February Avalon have since then done their best to allay any fears we had re the food & drink.

We are still waiting to be convinced that all they said was not just spin, so we guess that the proof will be in the pudding .

We notice that at no time did anyone say that they had returned a meal to the kitchen due to it not being an acceptable standard .

 

With only 10 days till we start our 27 hours of travel to Budapest we have decided to think positively and are looking forward to a great cruise and subsequent time in Europe .We will be reporting as we go ,if reports aren't coming thick and fast it will be due to the fact that the wine is fine, the food is great, and we are too busy enjoying ourselves.

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Hi all

PingPong ,while we did float the possibility of canceling way back in February Avalon have since then done their best to allay any fears we had re the food & drink.

We are still waiting to be convinced that all they said was not just spin, so we guess that the proof will be in the pudding .

We notice that at no time did anyone say that they had returned a meal to the kitchen due to it not being an acceptable standard .

 

With only 10 days till we start our 27 hours of travel to Budapest we have decided to think positively and are looking forward to a great cruise and subsequent time in Europe .We will be reporting as we go ,if reports aren't coming thick and fast it will be due to the fact that the wine is fine, the food is great, and we are too busy enjoying ourselves.

 

 

Keenmolly - I also am on an Avalon cruise in 10 days we will be traveling in opposite direction of you (sarting with 3 day pre cruise in Prague). I also have some concerns but as other posters have said much of it depends on the chef and other factors although I would hope that it is somewhat better than average "chain" restaurants I also do not expect a 5 star gourmet experience. What I do hope to experience is some ethnic variety in both the food and drink. I also am on an older ship (Tapestry) but got a great deal on this especially for the cabin I have so I am sure it will all work out.

 

Have a great trip!

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Keenmolly - I also am on an Avalon cruise in 10 days we will be traveling in opposite direction of you (sarting with 3 day pre cruise in Prague). I also have some concerns but as other posters have said much of it depends on the chef and other factors although I would hope that it is somewhat better than average "chain" restaurants I also do not expect a 5 star gourmet experience. What I do hope to experience is some ethnic variety in both the food and drink. I also am on an older ship (Tapestry) but got a great deal on this especially for the cabin I have so I am sure it will all work out.

 

Have a great trip!

 

TSTR, You will have a wonderful trip as the Danube itinerary is just lovely! Prague and Budapest are fabulous and we too were on the Tapestry for the first 5 days of our Danube cruise last November due to low water levels. We were able to be placed on the Panorama (our original booking) for the final 2 days after being bussed from 1 port to the subsequent one up river from the low area in the river. The Tapestry staff were wonderful and we actually thought the food last Fall was better on the Tapestry then on the Panorama. After 2 Avalon cruises, on 3 different ships...we have determined that as subjective as personal tastes goes with a Dining experience, much of the food types and quality with Avalon truly depends on who the Chef is for that cruise. Our best by far was on our first Avalon cruise on the Affinity where "Stefan" was the Chef. His food was truly excellent, good variety and flavors as well as preparing many selections that were regional for our cruise itinerary (mostly Germany and Bavarian ports). I would rank the Chef on the tapestry from last Nov. as our 2nd choice and the food on the Panorama 3rd. Hopefully after all the negative comments regarding the food on the Panorama since last fall, that as this new cruising season unfolds....Avalon has made a change in their Chef on the Panorama.

Yes the Tapestry is an older ship but we were quite surprised how well it has been maintained and most all the comments from our cruise mates were very positive and many like the cozier ambience of the Tapestry over the Panorama. For us, we very much enjoyed our larger cabin and the decor of the Panorama but would not hesitate if a good opportunity for a cruise deal came up to go back to the Tapestry.

 

Have a great trip!! FYI, if you are staying at the Hilton in Prague, there is a great Czech Pub restaurant we loved with a wonderful selection of Czech beers and authentic Czech food within easy walking distance. It is called Pivovarsky Klub, was recommended by the Concierge at the Hilton. Very, very reasonably priced.Another good choice is Kolkovna Celnice, very near the Old Town Square.Also walking distance from the Hilton.

 

In Budapest, our favorite was Cafe Kor...ate there twice.

 

Have a great trip!!! :)

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TSTR, You will have a wonderful trip as the Danube itinerary is just lovely! Prague and Budapest are fabulous and we too were on the Tapestry for the first 5 days of our Danube cruise last November due to low water levels. We were able to be placed on the Panorama (our original booking) for the final 2 days after being bussed from 1 port to the subsequent one up river from the low area in the river. The Tapestry staff were wonderful and we actually thought the food last Fall was better on the Tapestry then on the Panorama. After 2 Avalon cruises, on 3 different ships...we have determined that as subjective as personal tastes goes with a Dining experience, much of the food types and quality with Avalon truly depends on who the Chef is for that cruise. Our best by far was on our first Avalon cruise on the Affinity where "Stefan" was the Chef. His food was truly excellent, good variety and flavors as well as preparing many selections that were regional for our cruise itinerary (mostly Germany and Bavarian ports). I would rank the Chef on the tapestry from last Nov. as our 2nd choice and the food on the Panorama 3rd. Hopefully after all the negative comments regarding the food on the Panorama since last fall, that as this new cruising season unfolds....Avalon has made a change in their Chef on the Panorama.

Yes the Tapestry is an older ship but we were quite surprised how well it has been maintained and most all the comments from our cruise mates were very positive and many like the cozier ambience of the Tapestry over the Panorama. For us, we very much enjoyed our larger cabin and the decor of the Panorama but would not hesitate if a good opportunity for a cruise deal came up to go back to the Tapestry.

 

Have a great trip!! FYI, if you are staying at the Hilton in Prague, there is a great Czech Pub restaurant we loved with a wonderful selection of Czech beers and authentic Czech food within easy walking distance. It is called Pivovarsky Klub, was recommended by the Concierge at the Hilton. Very, very reasonably priced.Another good choice is Kolkovna Celnice, very near the Old Town Square.Also walking distance from the Hilton.

 

In Budapest, our favorite was Cafe Kor...ate there twice.

 

Have a great trip!!! :)

 

 

BP - Thanks for the tips and reassurance! Yes we are staying at the Hilton. My wife is Czech (Slovak) as her mother was born in Czechoslovakia so the info on the local food and beer is appreciated! So far Avalon has been great! Every email I have sent has been answered promptly, friendly and been informative. Because of lock closures we will begin the cruise in Passau instead of Nurenberg due to lock maintenance. We will still visit both Nurenberg and Regensberg via motor coach. To make up for this Avalon has added 2 additional port stops with tours Durnstein and Bratislava (which is especially nice for my wife).

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