Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Uniall]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']Originally posted by SB - here's the documentary scheduled to air tonight on msnbc.

[URL]http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/09/12645216-costa-concordia-survivors-fighting-over-shipwreck-settlement?lite[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the tip. Thank God for video recorders. I'll watch it at midnight...LOL

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='sidari']CT ... Sorry for the misunderstanding re passengers, i think the report they were referring to was the one that is currently being touted around the Media.

Sadly cruisenewsdaily only post partial stories so cannot give you any more details unless of course you can find someone who is a member ? so far i have not found anyone.[/QUOTE]

Ok - I found the headline here:
[url]http://cruisenewsdaily.com/[/url] - The problem is they don't tell you what it is you can't believe only that you can't believe everything you read which is just plain common sense.

I don't see a link anywhere on that site to subscribe to their service - the site is poorly presented and looks amateurish at best. Not sure I would pay $$ to find out what we can't believe.

You added 2 links below that headline in your post. They were about Schettino about to give an exclusive interview - which he did.

So I guess we'll never know exactly what it is we should not believe unless we PAY. :confused:

[sidari]

CT ... I totaly agree, i did try to join the site about 2 years ago but gave up when they failed to answer any e mails to them! no idea who they are or who owns the site.

There are many occasions when they post in a similar way leaving out the main part of their story or feature.

[Ratt]

[quote name='Uniall']Sidari

Your never said you wanted to surpress Free Speech. Only a fool would do that. Sidari, you may be many things but you are not a fool.

But the cessation of Freech Speech is a natural consequence of your regimine to guarantee a fair and impartial trial. As the old adage says, "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

In this case there are many ways to gaurantee a fair and impartial trial without resorting to curtailment of free speech. For you, curtailment of Free Speech is your one and only remedy to protect a fair and impartial trial. That seems over reaching, at best, and tyranical, at worst, to those of us in a society where the populaion has never been called "subjects".[/QUOTE]

Do you consider it a violation of the right to free speech when a judge issues a gag order?

I do understand that your discussion revolves around the media and not people directly involved in a case, I was just wondering how you feel about it.

[Uniall]

[quote name='Ratt']Do you consider it a violation of the right to free speech when a judge issues a gag order?

I do understand that your discussion revolves around the media and not people directly involved in a case, I was just wondering how you feel about it.[/quote]

Yes, I've opposed gag orders my entire career. In most states they avoid the free speech issue by imposing the gag order on attorneys under the theory that they are officers of the court. But, any attempt to muzzle non litigants, especially the media, would be beyond the pale.

[Host Mick]

The rock in the hull will become a memorial.

[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18820104[/URL]

[sidari]

Looks like they have been busy cutting away some of the steel from around the Rock.

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Looks like they have been busy cutting away some of the steel from around the Rock.[/quote]

They should break the rock into small pieces and sell them as mementos of the event. The funds could be distributed to the victims.:D

Better yet, they could borrow a page from the old Georgia Chain Gangs and sentence Capt. Schitino and his fellow convictees to ten years of hard labor "making little rocks out of big ones" for the fund raising....;)

[Keel Haul]

[quote name='Uniall']

Better yet, they could borrow a page from the old Georgia Chain Gangs and sentence Capt. Schitino and his fellow convictees to ten years of hard labor "making little rocks out of big ones" for the fund raising....;)[/QUOTE]A bit draconian for my taste Uni;)
40 yrs ago an American Attorney said to me the biggest difference between our two countries criminal law is if a perp admits guilt to a lawyer in the UK the lawyer must insist he pleads guilty.This does not apply in the US?

[Uniall]

[quote name='Keel Haul']A bit draconian for my taste Uni;)
40 yrs ago an American Attorney said to me the biggest difference between our two countries criminal law is if a perp admits guilt to a lawyer in the UK the lawyer must insist he pleads guilty.This does not apply in the US?[/quote]

An attorney in the US is not required to insist his client plead guilty if the client admits guilt based upon the principal that it is the proxdecutions duty to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the defendant has no obligation to cooperate in proving his guilt or innocence.

However, a US attorney may not allow his client (or client's witnesses) to lie under oath and provide false testimony to buttress the defendant's innocence because the lawyer would be be abetting the subborning of perjury.

[CtheW0rld]

[quote name='Uniall']An attorney in the US is not required to insist his client plead guilty if the client admits guilt based upon the principal that it is the proxdecutions duty to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the defendant has no obligation to cooperate in proving his guilt or innocence.

[COLOR=red]However, a US attorney may not allow his client (or client's witnesses) to lie under oath and provide false testimony to buttress the defendant's innocence because the lawyer would be be abetting the subborning of perjury.[/[/COLOR]quote]

our 5th amendment allows one to NOT testify against himself in a court of law. hence the term - 'i plead the 5th'.

[sidari]

Uni ... I have a question for you.

Are you happy that Free speech can also condemn someone to a life of torture and possible harrasment despite being found not guilty as a wrongly accused innocent person? as i said previously mud sticks.

ie a person is alledged to be a paedophile but a court finds him not guilty, that person now has to live the rest of his life with the fact that he has been accused of this particular crime and the issues that will follow him for the rest of his life.

Meanwhile the rest of society carry on with their Free speech while this person is left to suffer! how can that be right ?

[Ratt]

[quote name='sidari']Uni ... I have a question for you.

Are you happy that Free speech can also condemn someone to a life of torture and possible harrasment despite being found not guilty as a wrongly accused innocent person? as i said previously mud sticks.

ie a person is alledged to be a paedophile but a court finds him not guilty, that person now has to live the rest of his life with the fact that he has been accused of this particular crime and the issues that will follow him for the rest of his life.

Meanwhile the rest of society carry on with their Free speech while this person is left to suffer! how can that be right ?[/QUOTE]

I know you asked Uni directly but I thought I'd share my opinion.

Free speech is a wonderful thing and like many good things, there are negatives aspects. While it's not something that I wish on any person, I do accept the fact that there can be times when the right to free speech can have a negative impact on an innocent person. The right to bare arms is no different. There are many guns owners (most) that use them in a way that does not harm innocent people, but there are those people that do use them to harm others. Just because there is a negative aspect to something, it doesn't mean we should do away with it.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Here is a video and article of the MSNBC report last night:

[url]http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12701697-costa-concordia-survivors-describe-goliath-fight-against-cruise-industry?lite[/url]

[cruiserfanfromct]

From Corriere De La Sera - a radar image timeline showing Schettino in charge at the moment of impact:

[url]http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2012/07/11/pop_concordia-mappa.shtml[/url]

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']Here is a video and article of the MSNBC report last night:

[URL]http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/12/12701697-costa-concordia-survivors-describe-goliath-fight-against-cruise-industry?lite[/URL][/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]I watched the segment last night. Not really any new info for those of us following this. I was pleased that other pax were interviewed instead of that same couple and their 2 daughters from CA.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]I watched the segment last night. Not really any new info for those of us following this. I was pleased that other pax were interviewed instead of that same couple and their 2 daughters from CA.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
Yes, it was refreshing to hear a new perspective from the survivors from New York.
---------
Scanning the Italian newspapers this morning there is much outrage that Schettino was apparently paid 57,000 euros for the exclusive interview to talk about the incident while the relatives of the dead will only receive 72,000 euros for each dead person!

[cruiserfanfromct]

For all you techies - here is the video of radar images of the route taken:

[url]http://video.corriere.it/costa-concordia-rotta-guasto-scatola-nera/54f630aa-c473-11e1-8a5a-a551a87e60ad[/url]

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']For all you techies - here is the video of radar images of the route taken:

[URL]http://video.corriere.it/costa-concordia-rotta-guasto-scatola-nera/54f630aa-c473-11e1-8a5a-a551a87e60ad[/URL][/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]What I noticed was how VDR Failure and System Fault kept coming up on the screen even before the crash. You also knew when the system recognized the crash with the way the board lit up.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]That said, I do not even want to pretend I understand most of what I watched. Someone with experience please tell me if it is common for Fault and Failure to keep popping up or was there an issue with the system prior to the crash.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Uni ... I have a question for you.

Are you happy that Free speech can also condemn someone to a life of torture and possible harrasment despite being found not guilty as a wrongly accused innocent person? as i said previously mud sticks.

ie a person is alledged to be a paedophile but a court finds him not guilty, that person now has to live the rest of his life with the fact that he has been accused of this particular crime and the issues that will follow him for the rest of his life.

Meanwhile the rest of society carry on with their Free speech while this person is left to suffer! how can that be right ?[/quote]

Once again, I have to point out that the underlying premise of your theory is false and therefore your conclusion is false.

The reality is there are many ways to protect the defendant's right to a fair and impartial trial without destroying every one's right to free speech. Edited July 13, 2012 by Uniall

[sidari]

Ratt ... Thanks for your input.

Uni .. Not really answered the question there have you ? how do you protect the innocent person wrongly accused once the media through free speech have called him a paedophile ?

Take a case recently where a young woman was killed in her own flat then her body was dumped by the side of a roadway, the Landlord who lived in the same building was banged to rights by the Media circus as the culprit
and arrested by the police.

Low and behold it turns out that the killer was another tennant and not the Landlord but due to free speech in the Media the Landlord now has to live the rest of his life wondering who may accuse him of being involved despite being released by the police! and the killer now being behind bars.

[Uniall]

[quote name='sidari']Ratt ... Thanks for your input.

Uni .. Not really answered the question there have you ? how do you protect the innocent person wrongly accused once the media through free speech have called him a paedophile ?

Take a case recently where a young woman was killed in her own flat then her body was dumped by the side of a roadway, the Landlord who lived in the same building was banged to rights by the Media circus as the culprit
and arrested by the police.

Low and behold it turns out that the killer was another tennant and not the Landlord but due to free speech in the Media the Landlord now has to live the rest of his life wondering who may accuse him of being involved despite being released by the police! and the killer now being behind bars.[/quote]

None private persons can sue for defamation (libel or slander)

If you're a public person you also have to show "malicious intent".

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]What I noticed was how VDR Failure and System Fault kept coming up on the screen even before the crash. You also knew when the system recognized the crash with the way the board lit up.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]That said, I do not even want to pretend I understand most of what I watched. Someone with experience please tell me if it is common for Fault and Failure to keep popping up or was there an issue with the system prior to the crash.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
I'm no pro at navigation either so I'm hoping some of our maritime experts here can tell us.

What we do know is that Schettino admitted to being on his cell phone and on manual navigation when the impact occurred. There are court transcripts that state he did not have his glasses on while attempting this manual navigation.

To me that is the equivalent of texting while driving with the responsibility of the lives of over 4,000 people. It boggles the mind that a cruise line would put someone in charge of the largest ship in the Mediterranean who would attempt such a stunt.

The exclusive interview further illustrates the moral bankruptcy of this captain. How could he justify his negligence and incompetency by stating that a "divine hand" avoided a head on collision with the rocks and that the accident was "trivial". I'm sure the families of the dead wouldn't think they are gone due to "trivial" accident guided by "instinct" and a "divine hand".

As per the Moldovian woman, Schettino states in the exclusive interview that she was on bridge waiting for her key to her cabin - which has got to be on par with "I fell into a life boat". Nuf said.

[Uniall]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']I'm no pro at navigation either so I'm hoping some of our maritime experts here can tell us.

What we do know is that Schettino admitted to being on his cell phone and on manual navigation when the impact occurred. There are court transcripts that state he did not have his glasses on while attempting this manual navigation.

To me that is the equivalent of texting while driving with the responsibility of the lives of over 4,000 people. It boggles the mind that a cruise line would put someone in charge of the largest ship in the Mediterranean who would attempt such a stunt.

The exclusive interview further illustrates the moral bankruptcy of this captain. How could he justify his negligence and incompetency by stating that a "divine hand" avoided a head on collision with the rocks and that the accident was "trivial". I'm sure the families of the dead wouldn't think they are gone due to "trivial" accident guided by "instinct" and a "divine hand".

As per the Moldovian woman, Schettino states in the exclusive interview that she was on bridge waiting for her key to her cabin - which has got to be on par with "I fell into a life boat". Nuf said.[/quote]

"The Moldovian Woman" was on the bridge waiting for a key to whose cabin? :rolleyes:

[Vampire Parrot]

[QUOTE]For all you techies - here is the video of radar images of the route taken:

[URL="http://video.corriere.it/costa-concordia-rotta-guasto-scatola-nera/54f630aa-c473-11e1-8a5a-a551a87e60ad"]http://video.corriere.it/costa-conco...a-a551a87e60ad[/URL][/QUOTE]

Just watching that had me sweating...... enough said.

VP